The Instigator
BrettNortje
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
DoulosChristos
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

YWYH exists and Venus does not, as stipulated by DoulosChistos, BrettNortje against.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/1/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 464 times Debate No: 113353
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

BrettNortje

Con

I am challenging DoulosChristos to a debate where he said that Yaweh or some Monotheist god exists and my godess Venus does not.
DoulosChristos

Pro

Ahh yes, it is not often I get to debate a neo-pagan, so I got a little excited. Of course I would like to say thank you to my opponent for this debate challenge. Since I am the one who made the claim the goddess "Venus" does not exist, I will go ahead and for the sake of this debate shoulder the burden of defending that claim. First and foremost, I do not mean any offense, I simply wish to defend the truth. Let us begin.

I would like to make clear that if my God does in fact exist, then by default, Venus does not, because my God is quite clear He is the only God. (Isaiah 44, 48, 46, so on) So if it can be proven that the existence of YHVH is true and the existence of Venus is not, we essentially have case closed. So, why should we believe in my God as opposed to Venus?

1. Venus was not a moral goddess, and as such, cannot justify morality.

Venus, according to the traditions I have read, engaged in activities such as seducing mortal men.

https://www.ancient.eu...

Venus had several lovers, and was deceptive in her dealings. She once disguised herself as a mortal to seduce a prince. Furthermore, Venus never gave mankind a moral standard to abide by.

I can make absolute moral judgments because my God is the Standard by which I judge right and wrong. If I were to use Venus as that standard, I cannot make any absolute moral judgement using Venus because she never revealed a moral law to mankind. For all we know, Venus is perfectly ok with murder and theft. On the other hand. my God is quite clear on what is good and evil.

2. Omniscience.

Venus was not omniscient, and as such, anything she reveals to mankind might in fact, be wrong. She could have something outside of her scope of knowledge contradict what she thought she knew. YHVH on the other hand is Omniscient and can with certainty reveal things to mankind that He knows are perfectly correct. We can trust my God because He is all knowing and cannot be wrong, we cannot trust Venus for truth because she may in fact be wrong, because she is not all knowing.

3. Deception

My God literally cannot lie (Titus 1:3) Venus on the other hand is OK with disguising herself as a mortal to seduce people. Since she is deceptive, we cannot know anything about the world around us with certainty, for all we know, Venus is deceiving us, and tricking our senses to experience a dream world. YHVH could not do this because everything He does is truth.

So summarize, if Venus was the true god:

1. We could have no certainty. The mere fact that there exists a possibility she is actively deceiving us would destroy the possibility of knowledge. I could not know for certain that I exist or that water is wet because we might live in a deceptive dream world created by Venus for the purpose of seducing us. This cannot be argued about my God because He could not create such a scenario.

2. We could have no absolute moral standards because we don't know what she deems moral or not.

The problem with Venus is that we do have certainty. I know things for certain, and my opponent knows things for certain. I know there are things that are absolutely morally wrong, because my God has deemed them as such. I know that I exist, I have accurate senses and reasoning created by a truthful God, I have an absolute moral standard to abide by, and I live in a world that is not potentially a dream world created by a goddess with no regard for being truthful. I can say with certainty that we have certainty. If Venus was true we could not.

Therefore YHVH exists. Therefore Venus does not.
Debate Round No. 1
BrettNortje

Con

Thank you for accepting my challenge.

My beliefs are based on science - that the planet Venus is actually a collection of energy that affects the world as if she were truly part of the horoscope. This means, as a planet with influence on tides, emotions due to birth date algorithms, where when you are conceived you begin to attune to the planetary energies that, for example, involve electromagnetism, and, bounce off the sun, striking us, she exists.

This is all tied to my uncovering of the link between Greek symbolism of gods and the astrophysics - indeed they both exist and work together. This is like saying that my opponents beliefs are better because they claim to be better, while i too believe that Yaweh is a god, a manifestation of a planet, and, sent his son Jesus to the earth to bring about hope, I prefer Venus as Goddess as she fills me with euphoria often - since I pray to her correctly, she fills me with joy and high feelings.

With these definite effects, it is safe to say my Goddess exists, while Yaweh also exists. The confusion comes in when Christians and Jews and Muslims link the universe with astral bodies - the universe is the ultimate Father, the son is Jesus - a planet - and the holy spirit is the energy that Jesus uses.
DoulosChristos

Pro

Thank you for the response, I guess when I read "Venus" I was thinking the goddess Aphrodite, I was not aware you were referring to the actual planet Venus. Yes, of course the planet Venus exists. I do not dispute there is a celestial body called Venus.

"This means, as a planet with influence on tides, emotions due to birth date algorithms, where when you are conceived you begin to attune to the planetary energies that, for example, involve electromagnetism, and, bounce off the sun, striking us, she exists."

Is there any scientific evidence that the position of Venus, or the date of one's birth has any true affect on the personality, and or destiny of human beings? If so can you provide some examples? And you refer to a planet as a she, isn't that a reification fallacy?

"while i too believe that Yaweh is a god, a manifestation of a planet"

So let me ask, if Yahweh exists, that logically excludes other gods from existing does it not? It is apparent throughout all Judeo-Christian documents on YHWH that He and He alone is the only God. That doesn't leave room for Venus. How do you reconcile this? Further, what exactly makes you connect gods with planets, I know the planets were named after the Greco/Roman gods, and perhaps there is some connection with modern astrology, but there is no reference to YHWH ever being connected to the planets or the Zodiac. Where exactly did you get this connection? Based upon the strict monotheism of those who follow Yahweh, and what He has said about Himself, I believe based upon your admission that He exists and is "a god" then my original point still stands, He is a God therefore the only God.

". The confusion comes in when Christians and Jews and Muslims link the universe with astral bodies "

Can you elaborate more on this? I as a Christian link the astral bodies and the universe together as creations of Yahweh that are entirely separate from Him.

Ultimately, if one believes in Yahweh then one cannot have other gods.
Debate Round No. 2
BrettNortje

Con

The planets affect the ways of our lives, as, when we are in the womb, the effects of the universe on us gear us, at different developmental stages, to become tuned differently.

If one believes in Yaweh, then one cannot believe in other gods? Well, what about the devil? Isn't he 'a god?' Where does his power come from, or, where does he reside if not in heaven? Also, I believe the original way to classify 'Yaweh' is as a true god, not the true god, as this would be offensive to other gods, yes?

Yes, Venus is a planet, and, is a manifestation of a consciousness. As she bears effects, and every bit of energy is never destroyed, it merely changes forms, either she is creating energy or she is reacting, as do we to physical phenomenon through our senses.
DoulosChristos

Pro

"If one believes in Yaweh, then one cannot believe in other gods? Well, what about the devil? Isn't he 'a god?' Where does his power come from, or, where does he reside if not in heaven"

Simply residing in heaven and being powerful wouldn't qualify any being to be a god, otherwise all the angels are gods, which we know is not the case, again, I am using Judeo-Christian texts regarding Yahweh, that is the obvious and most logical source of information on Him. The fact is Satan is a being created directly by God (Job 26:13) and does not have any qualities that qualify him to be a god. Satan is not omnipresent, omniscient, eternal as God is, and is not the Creator

" Also, I believe the original way to classify 'Yaweh' is as a true god, not the true god, as this would be offensive to other gods, yes?"

Would not a "true" God be THE true God? Otherwise what makes Him true? Again, I get my information of my God from Biblical texts. The Biblical texts and the Rabbinic texts are certainly clear that YHVH is the only God that exists. If He exists all other "gods" do not.

Since you have conceded the existence of Yahweh you have essentially conceded that monotheism is correct
Debate Round No. 3
BrettNortje

Con

My beliefs rest in science. If you r texts say something, this is not justified, as, it is only a story.

I conclude that my set of beliefs are superior in terms of justification. I think I have proven both Yaweh and Venus exist.
DoulosChristos

Pro

" If you r texts say something, this is not justified, as, it is only a story."

If we are talking about any given topic, would not the obvious source of information be on the primary texts about that topic? If I was talking about what Buddhists believe, would not their own actual writing be my best source for information? Again, my information on monotheism and Yahweh comes from the primary sources, which would obviously be Scripture. Simply declaring that Venus exists alongside Yahweh is not an argument. It has been proven that Yahweh and monotheism are inextricably tied. Once cannot change that by statements
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.