The Instigator
Dr.Franklin
Pro (for)
The Contender
Speedrace
Con (against)

You Pick a Political Topic

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Debate Round Forfeited
Dr.Franklin has forfeited round #4.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/30/2019 Category: Places-Travel
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 433 times Debate No: 121111
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

Dr.Franklin

Pro

You an pick any one of these topics or debate them all

Abortion(Pro-Life)
Guns(Pro-gun)
Black Lives Matter(against)
Capital Punishment(for)
Donald Trump(for)
Barack Obama(against)
Israel(for)
Transgenders(against)
Border Wall(for)
U. S Military Intervention(for)
Socialism(against)
Communism(against)
Capitalism(for)
Electoral College(for)

Good luck
Speedrace

Con

I accept. We will be debating the border wall. I will argue that we should not build it.
Debate Round No. 1
Dr.Franklin

Pro

First it is a irrefutable fact that a border wall helps against illegal immigration, So are you arguing that it is not as affective as other measures or what? Just elaborate a bit more on your position

CASE 1: Illegal Immigration

2019 is supposed to be record highs for illegal immigration crossings. Currently 13k people are crossing the border everyday. 4k is a problem, 6k is a crisis and 8k is a apoclypse, It is out of control.

CASE 2: DRUGS

Since 2012, The number of traffickers apprehended at U. S. Borders has steadily increased from 364, 768 to nearly 500, 000 in 2014. From 2012 to 2015 the U. S. Border Patrol has seized more than:

  • 8. 2 million lbs. Of marijuana
  • 32, 600 lbs. Of cocaine
  • 34, 000 ounces of heroin
  • 17, 600 lbs. Of methamphetamine
CASE 3: WALLS WORK

Some 560, 000 illegals were caught astride San Diego and Tijuana in Fiscal Year 1992, When a border wall was installed there. By FY 2017, The Border Patrol says it snared 26, 086 — down 95. 3 percent. A fence installed at the border between Yuma, Arizona, And Los Algondones, Mexico brought apprehensions from 138, 438 in FY 2005 to 12, 847 in FY 2017 — down 90. 7 percent. A 150-mile barrier between Israel and southern Egypt cut the number of illegal-alien entrants from 17, 000 in 2011 to 43 in 2013, After the fence’s completion, Israel’s Ministry of the Interior states — down 99. 7 percent. Just as British Gibraltar dangles from Spain’s underside, Spanish Ceuta and Melilla surf atop Morocco. Multiple fences and barriers there sliced 2014’s 2, 100 arrests at the Spanish-territorial/Moroccan frontier to 2015’s 100 — down 95. 2 percent.

YOUR FLOOR

Speedrace

Con

It is not an irrefutable fact that border walls help illegal immigration, That is not even close. In fact, The example you gave was not even in the United States. I am arguing that the border wall is not effective and therefore is a waste of both time and money.

I will name 5 reasons (premises) why the border wall is bad for the U. S. Just to clarify, This is not border walls in general, But specifically, The border wall that the President is advocating for. The reasons are as follows:
It will not stop drug trafficking.
It will not stop illegal immigration.
It promotes xenophobia.
It wastes an enormous amount of money.
It wastes time and labor.

Premise 1:

Experts have shown that the majority of drugs are not coming across the border, But across legal ports of entry.

"According to U. S. Customs and Border Protection statistics, 90 percent of heroin seized along the border, 88 percent of cocaine, 87 percent of methamphetamine, And 80 percent of fentanyl in the first 11 months of the 2018 fiscal year was caught trying to be smuggled in at legal crossing points. "

Besides this, Drug smugglers themselves have admitted the same facts:

". . . Intelligence received from arrested smugglers and law enforcement partners in Mexico indicate that cartels clearly prefer moving high-profit narcotics through the busy ports of entry because their chances of success are better there. . . The sheer volume of traffic means smugglers' odds are still better going through there than other parts of the border. . . Vice President Mike Pence was the first to acknowledge in an op-ed column published in USA TODAY on Tuesday that those drugs "primarily" enter the country through ports of entry. . . Several of [El Chapo's] cartel members have testified that they mostly pushed drugs through U. S. Ports of entry. . . None. . . Testified that they moved drugs through the open border regions in between those ports. "

Clearly, The border wall will not be able to stop drug trafficking.

Premise 2:

Ways to get into the U. S. When a border wall is present:

Through:

"One storm in Texas left a hole for months. Fences and walls can also erode near rivers or beaches, As the one in San Diego did. And they can be penetrated: Some fencing can be cut in minutes, And the Border Patrol reported repairing more than 4, 000 holes in one year alone. "

Over:

"Much of the current fencing can be easily mounted with a ladder or from the roof of a truck. In some cases, Border crossers can scale the fence without any additional equipment. One viral video from 2010 shows two women easily climbing an 18-foot steel bollard-style pedestrian fence in less than 20 seconds. Smugglers can even drive over the fence using ramps. . . "

Under:

"Tunnels are typically used more for drug smuggling, But they still create a significant vulnerability in any kind of physical barrier. From 2007 to 2010, The Border Patrol found more than one tunnel per month, On average. "For every tunnel we find, We feel they"re building another one somewhere". . A wall would likely increase the rewards for successful tunneling as other modes of transit grow more expensive. "

Through Gaps:

"Border Patrol agents have told Fox News that a border wall would still "have to allow water to pass through, Or the sheer force of raging water could damage its integrity. . . In 2011, For example, A flood in Arizona washed away 40 feet of steel fence. "

Clearly, A border wall can do nothing to stop a determined immigrant.

Premise 3:

If a border wall goes up, Our children will learn about it. They will grow up being told that "we have to keep the bad people out. " This will only serve to increase xenophobia, Which incorrectly criminalizes innocent people.

Premise 4:

As I have already shown, The border wall will accomplish none of the goals for which it was built. It is a waste of billions of dollars, Which can go to sectors such as:

Welfare
Public services (libraries, Fire departments, Etc. )
Public transportation
Fixing public buildings and streets
Reducing the national debt
Public education

Premise 5:

How long will it take to build the border wall?

"One expert. . . Recently estimated that it could take 11 years for 10, 000 workers to build 1, 000 miles of steel border barrier, A length Trump had called for on numerous occasions during the campaign. "

So not only does this waste money, But it wastes the labor equivalent to 10, 000 workers who work for 11 years on a wall that I have proven will not accomplish it's job.

To conclude, The border wall is bad for America, And should not be built.

Over to you!

Sources:

In my profile comments
Debate Round No. 2
Dr.Franklin

Pro

Rebuttal

1. The Border Wall prooposal gives 1 billion dollars in enhancing drug technology at checkpoints.
2. Ok, Anybody can say this but look at my examples, ALL walls stopped illegal immigration. Name a wall that didn't.
3. What, I have walls in my house, I am a xenophobe. That is stupid, Keeping bad people out does not equal to incorrectly criminalizes innocent people. There is a wall in the Vatican is THAT zenophobic.
4. 25 billion dollars isn't alot of money when you see that the government- During FY2018, The federal government spent $4. 11 trillion, Up $127 billion or 3. 2% vs. FY2017 spending of$3. 99 trillion. Spending increased for all major categories and was mainly driven by higher spending for Social Security, Net interest on the debt, And defense. If it will save lives, Then we need a border wall.
5. 11 years, Doubtful, The wall won't be built everywhere and there is already walls- oh and also the military is building the wall so We could seal the border in 24 to 36 hours. The military works pretty fast. Even if the wall takes long, It is saving lives.

BACK TO YOU
Speedrace

Con



"The Border Wall prooposal gives 1 billion dollars in enhancing drug technology at checkpoints. "

As I said, Most drugs come through legal ports of entry, So the wall itself won't do anything about that. Can you prove that this technology will do any better than the current system?

"Ok, Anybody can say this but look at my examples, ALL walls stopped illegal immigration. Name a wall that didn't. "

The Berlin Wall, Or even the Maginot Line, Although it technically wasn't a wall. The Great Wall of China is another example. Besides that, You never gave your sources for the examples you provided.

https://www. Rollingstone. Com/politics/politics-features/why-border-walls-don't-work-782449/

"What, I have walls in my house, I am a xenophobe. That is stupid, Keeping bad people out does not equal to incorrectly criminalizes innocent people. There is a wall in the Vatican is THAT zenophobic. "

I never said that walls are xenophobic or that walls cause xenophobia, I said that the border wall will promote xenophobia.

" 25 billion dollars isn't alot of money when you see that the government- During FY2018, The federal government spent $4. 11 trillion, Up $127 billion or 3. 2% vs. FY2017 spending of$3. 99 trillion. Spending increased for all major categories and was mainly driven by higher spending for Social Security, Net interest on the debt, And defense. "

Just because we have a lot of money doesn't mean we should waste it, No matter how small of a percentage it represents of the national budget.

"If it will save lives, Then we need a border wall. "

The keyword here is "if, " because it does not save lives, Meaning that we don't need a border wall.

"11 years, Doubtful, The wall won't be built everywhere and there is already walls- oh and also the military is building the wall so We could seal the border in 24 to 36 hours. The military works pretty fast. Even if the wall takes long, It is saving lives. "

You're saying that your mental math calculation of how long it would take to put up the wall is more accurate than the analysis given by experts? Even with the military's help, It will still take years. You have given no proof of your numbers.

Over to you! :)
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Dr.Franklin 1 month ago
Dr.Franklin
In this random debate lol
Posted by robouryman 1 month ago
robouryman
I don't know. Why am I here? Why are you here? Why are WE. . . Here? O_O
Posted by Dr.Franklin 1 month ago
Dr.Franklin
Why are you here
Posted by robouryman 1 month ago
robouryman
Is it possible for a person to hold any views outside the status quo of their party? Lol
Posted by Speedrace 5 months ago
Speedrace
It's cool dude :/ it's not gonna update now anymore :(
Posted by Dr.Franklin 5 months ago
Dr.Franklin
sh i t my bad guys
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