The Instigator
704476
Pro (for)
The Contender
Mister_Man
Con (against)

bullying does not justify school shootings// change my mind

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Debate Round Forfeited
704476 has forfeited round #5.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/18/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 862 times Debate No: 112943
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

704476

Pro

bullying can cause kids to go two different ways they either kill themselves or kill others just because you were called names and maybe pushed around does not give you the right to take their lives, they certainly didn't take yours. i mean kids who actually take the time and think before doing something about it end up committing suicide or they attempt to tell an adult . school shootings happen when nobody will take the time to listen or help that kid so they snap and figure if i shoot these kids ill get revenge and ill be noticed for once.

yet we have a "gun problem" .... no we have a people problem , we have a bullying problem .guns are just the scapegoat so we don't wake up and realize hey!! KIDS ARE BEING BULLIED. the most they do is make them talk it out that is the worst way possible and if you are really that deranged to bully someone and make them feel like they don't deserve to live you should be put in jail for life so our children don't continually commit suicide
Mister_Man

Con

I figured this would be a fun debate to play devil's advocate for. Hopefully you stick around to complete this as way too many times somebody starts their first debate and never returns to complete it. Anyway, best of luck.

I will break my argument down into two main parts - morality and societal impact.

Morality
Is killing ever justified? To many, it is. If someone has done some horrible act, the government in many countries has the legal authority to kill that person. Street justice is rampant throughout the world, and in countries such as the Philippines, the government executes prominent drug lords, rapists and murderers.

But where should we draw the line? I say anybody who is unwilling to act civilized and treat others with respect and dignity should be penalized. Bullies fit smack-dab in the middle of that category. In grade school, bullying can often lead to self-harming, serious depression, social anxiety and even suicide. These people who torment innocent children are scum and too often nobody does anything about it. A teacher may give them a smack on the wrist, they could get suspended for a day or two, but they come back and pick on innocent children and cause great psychological pain (not only physical) to many people, which can impact the victim for their entire life.

Telling them to "stop" doesn't do jack. Beating them up could cause serious retaliation. Going to the police will land them in jail or prison at the very most, where they'll turn into hardened criminals and have an even more serious hatred toward others. Doing nothing will just give the bully more freedom.

Studies show that half of all bullies grow up to be criminals in some way or another [1]. I'm sure it's fair to assume that this is a low estimate as the prison population is quite high and it's hard to have conversations with criminals.

So let's see - scolding bullies doesn't work, fighting back doesn't work, calling the cops doesn't work, ignoring them doesn't work... what do we do?

We kill them. We show what happens to people who have a complete disregard for their fellow man and do nothing but inflict pain and suffering on others. And I will get into this in my next segment.


Societal Impact
The Philippines is a perfect example of how killing bad people is the better option than giving them shelter and three meals a day. Crime rates have plummeted a massive 22% in 2017 [2] and 13% in 2016 [3], ever since President Duterte enacted policies in which proved criminals are executed. A victim of bullying taking matters into his own hands and shooting his bullies will result in similar drops in violence as well as bullying.

Not only will the bullies no longer be able to physically and mentally harm their victims - as they're dead - other bullies will straighten out and smarten up, fearful that their victims may retaliate in a similar way. Not only will retaliation like this stop bullies, it will deter possible future bullies and keep everyone in line.

No longer will victims of bullying suffer from psychological and physical torment, no longer will these bullies grow up to be hardened criminals causing serious harm to other innocent people, no longer will the prison population overflow with people who started out as bullies. Killing these people has been proved to cut crime rates significantly in other countries, and can do the same in schools.
Debate Round No. 1
704476

Pro

when they have enough and finally shoot they don't just kill the bullies, teachers and other kids end up getting hurt because we cant control the bullying

sometimes its not just kids who have been bullied it could be people that are mentally messed up and one comment could trigger them and they shoot up a school. not even god himself could justify someone shooting up tons of children ,although i do agree they should be killed instead of just thrown into a cell but my point here is that no matter what someone says or does you have a choice and people say that " you didn't have a gun to your head " well even then you can choose to refuse and do the right thing and die knowing you didn't do something bad or you can choose to give in to the person holding the gun
just like your thoughts and feelings you can keep fighting and keep trying to get someone to help you or you could grab a gun and go shoot the bully's and accidentally taking a random innocent kids life when they could've grown old and lived a great life
you always have a choice , therefore bullying cannot justify school shootings
Mister_Man

Con

Thanks, numbers.

Now we get into specifics. Does the shooter target only bullies or just go on a rampage killing anyone he finds? Let's address both options.

You say "we cannot control the bullying," and I completely agree. I already stated all of our options which never end well and either don't change anything or change things for the worse. This means something has to be done. And for the sake of this debate, I'm saying a school shooting is a justified response.

Targeting Bullies

I basically went into this in my first round. If the shooter only targets bullies and only kills bullies, it rids the school of horrible people, deters other bullies popping up in said school as well as others, decreases the amount of hardened adult criminals, and much more. There really isn't any negative aspect to bullies getting shot up, is there? I see you haven't argued against this point, and you even agree with me by saying "I do agree they should be killed instead of just thrown into a cell."

Mindless Shooting

I see this is your main argument - that innocent people can get killed if someone shoots up a school. Obviously this is a horrible thing. But since I've chosen to take the opposing side.... I shall bring up my points from earlier. Let's say a school shooter stops many bullies from any further harm inflicted on innocent people. This includes physical and mental trauma from assaults, muggings, even rapes and murders. And assuming the bullies would have lived out an average length life, they would be affecting dozens if not hundreds of innocent people in horrible ways throughout their lives.

A school shooting on average will take the lives of say a dozen people. If half are bullies and half are innocent people, the only positive way we can look at this is in the long run - six innocent people die to save hundreds of innocent lives from mental and physical trauma endured at the hands of six bullies. It's a horrible, disgusting thing at the time, but in the long run, more peoples' lives as well as physical and mental well-being are saved thanks to a school shooter.

So to recap - you concede that not only can we not do anything about bullies, but you also concede that they should be killed, so you're mostly on my side from the start. Your only argument is that innocent people die, but this is quickly refuted by the fact that a small amount of innocent people losing their lives is a small sacrifice for the greater good of humanity, in order to stop potential hardened criminals from destroying multiple times as many lives as the school shooter did.

Thanks again and back to you.
Debate Round No. 2
704476

Pro

well i'm not just talking about the innocent lives and i see in the comments that they agree but if that person being bullied wanted to kill their bully why not do it separate rather than kill other people and they will become the" hardened adult criminals" everyone in the world fighting against this agrees that the bully should have consequences of course but all i'm saying is either way peoples lives get lost and they shoot many other kids when they could just do it out of school and wouldn't it be better to go to prison for one death rather than multiple not to mention the angry emotional parent that would probably sue and the parents of the victim would be paying for it then these victims will go to jail and experience even more mental taunting by the other people in there
Mister_Man

Con

You say it's not only about the innocent lives, but I'm not really seeing what else there is.

Let me ask you this: Would you consider somebody who dies for the greater good a "martyr"? Someone fighting for their country (assuming the war is legit and not to steal resources) and dying while defending it would be cherished. Of course the friends and family would be saddened and feel horrible, but they died knowing that their child died so others could prosper.

Can we apply the same logic to situations like this? I think so. An innocent person losing their life in a school shooting is a martyr who died in order for hundreds, if not thousands of other innocent people to maintain their mental and physical well-being. If the families and friends can wrap their heads around this idea, they will feel the same way as if their child died fighting for their country - saddened, but relieved knowing that their child was an unfortunate loss in order to make the world (or at least a large area around the shooting) a better place.

Looking at it at face value, the death of an innocent person is a bad thing. However in the grand scheme of things, the future and the well-being of hundreds if not thousands of similar innocent people being saved by the killings of these bullies outweighs the cons.

The unfortunate thing about killing bullies in a secluded or secret area is that either a) nobody finds out and therefore nobody is scared of being killed by someone for bullying, or b) the gunman only kills one bully and is apprehended by police, so he can't get any more, and the likelihood of another vigilante doing the same thing is incredibly low.

I also would like to say thanks for the incredibly fast responses, that's rare here especially by new members, so good on ya.
Debate Round No. 3
704476

Pro

i see where you are coming from but.... there should be no killing in the first place people need to get their kids under control and we wouldn't have these problems i don't think that if it was your kid being shot just because he made a bad decision you would be on the same side

we will continue this another time cya
Mister_Man

Con

There should be no killing in the first place? You completely changed your stance.

Let me give you examples of you saying there should be killing:

"...if that person being bullied wanted to kill their bully why not do it separate..."

"...i do agree they should be killed..."

So which is it? You've been agreeing with me for the majority of this debate.

We already went over parents trying to "get their kdis under control," and we've come to the conclusion that that's either been tried and failed, or the parents won't care enough to help their kids in the first place. So that isn't a possible option in this scenario.

1) My kid wouldn't be a bully, and 2) if he was so far gone that he hurt someone so much that his victim wanted him dead, I would probably understand why.

I don't think we will continue this another time, there's one round left, c'mon LOL
Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Mister_Man 3 years ago
Mister_Man
one fuckin round left and he fucks off, what a surprise
Posted by howardmilley 3 years ago
howardmilley
It seems like school shooting is such an dispute topic which many people disagree because innocent people could get killed.

FINE THEN HOW ABOUT KILLING BULLIES OUTSIDE SCHOOLS ? IF KILLING TAKE PLACE OUTSIDE SCHOOLS THEN INNOCENT PEOPLE LIVES WOULD BE SAVES AND INSTEAD THEY WOULD BE THE ONLY ONE WHO ARE BEING TARGET.
Posted by FanboyMctroll 3 years ago
FanboyMctroll
I agree with you
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