The Instigator
Pro (for)
1 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
10 Points

capitalism is the best economic system

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/1/2014 Category: Economics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,757 times Debate No: 51385
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)




Capitalism has existed throughout human history. Ever since value has been attributed to goods, labor, and services, capitalism has been present. All markets function most effectively on a principle of free trade, or laissez faire, which capitalism upholds. Capitalism provides an equality of opportunity to all people, and everyone can succeed and make a difference. The individual is the most important aspect of a capitalist state, coupled with a limited government.


Thank you pro, For this debate I will structure my posts in two segments, the first will address your advocacy of Capitalism and the Second segment will advocate for Resource Based Economics system as a superior option for future development. I Look forward to having a intelligent and thoughtful discussion on this matter, so let's begin.

Capitalism has a broad stroke definition but it is best defined as a system where as all or a majority of functions of a society are handled by for-profit corporations rather than be public interests, how ever its important to understand the birth of capitalism in its earliest forms to fully appreciate the power of the market system and the very nature of trade systems.
It is widely agreed that modern capitalism has its earliest roots in a system that arose naturally in the middle east and Europe between the 9th and 12th century A.D. due to an expansion of independent trade which created an expansion of what was, until that point, a rare breed the Merchant class or what would evolve into our modern times to be called the Middle class. That said, Capitalism has gone under many changes through the centuries from the agricultural to the industrial revolutions and up now to communications revolution and the impending Automation revolution.


Enter: The Resourced Based Economy ( RBE)

The RBE is the next evolutionary step in economics. Born of an acute awareness of finite resources, the RBE is based on a Global resource management system which makes decisions based purely on logical premise of what resources are available and what is needed to meet human demands for materials and such. Because resources are finite and have been exploited by private industries during a period of massive market expansions in the last century it is painful but obvious to see that the rate of our material depletion has created a problem.

Capitalist systems are too immature to handle the challenges of managing resources in this century, further that the Capitalist market is not designed nor concerned with meeting needs as a human necessity, The capitalist For-profit system is driven by just that Profits. Because of a system designed to turn valuable,finite resources into currency first and for most it is a system rife of wastes and abuses from the agriculture up its political relations and dealings.

Resource Based economics by contrast is a designed system which operates on logical laws and is designed and intended to meet consumer demands as a matter of fact as opposed to a matter of profits. About this time you maybe saying to your self " sounds like communism!" but there are many important differences between an RBE and a communist state. An RBE is powered by scientific reasoning rather than based on political forces such as is the communism. RBE further is powered under the hood by Automation,Artificial intelligence and scientific design as opposed to a the Engine of communism which is centralized state control.

The Infrastructure to build an RBE already exists, the systems have already been invented and are in use by the worlds international corporations both large and small. A resources tracking system, accounting for all of the materials available to and used by a corporate entity both internally and externally allows the corporation to mitigate risks, keep close tabs on product sales and productions and meet the consumer demands of its customers. In an RBE this same system is re-purposed to serve Human needs matter of factually as explained before.

I believe this debate between Capitalism and Resource Based Economics is a debate of how Humanity should spend its resources and how to deal with the consequences of resource depletion in our modern era. Selfishly and childishly as Capitalism has done or In an intelligent,logical and rational manner as is offered by Resource base Economics.

I look forward to our exchange.
Debate Round No. 1


An interesting prospect, however, I believe it is too idealistic. For one, who would be in charge of meting out resources to the people? One person? A central authority? Whatever the case, this person or group would have enormous power over the people in need of resources. With the abolition of money or any form of capital, you would still have the idea of value. Even in communist societies, labor and goods hold a value. You claim that RBE is different from a communist system, yet to achieve such a goal, all private property would have to be violently abolished. Suppose in a resource based economy, two consumers want the same product. Who gets it? In a traditional market, there is a healthy competition between both the consumer and the producer, resulting in the best goods at the best prices being purchased. Yet in your RBE system, who decides which person deserves what? Further, some types of labor is worth more to a society than others, so why should they be treated the same? In the RBE a doctor and a janitor would receive the same benefits, since capital is essentially abolished. Goods are meted out based on need, not based on who can afford them. Thus what incentive do people have to become doctors? What incentive do people have to excel, to truly make a difference in society, when they reap no rewards from their hard work? In the words of Milton Friedman, "The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests". This is the essence of capitalism, which presents an equality of opportunity for all and provides the notion that one can better himself through a little hard work. I personally do not want someone telling me how I can live my life, what goods I can possess, and how much I can own, as would be the case in an RBE.


There is a few things your misunderstanding, perhaps I did not adequately clarify. lets go over a couple of things.

Q: Who would be in charge:
A: An Artificial Intelligence. ( More on this later in the post)
-By contrast-
Who is in charge today?
Money is... Money determines your status, money in the capitalist society determines your value. Our " things" our possessions have come to determine our lives.

Money gets you immunity to law :
Or :

A capitalist society is determined by a person's worth. Their education, opportunity and accountability to law are all subject to economic status. Back to RBE, In RBE, Education is free- Life necessities are not scarce in our modern world ( Think about it, go to a grocery store and there are tropical fruits available in winter. We throw away enough food to feed the hungry.) Energy is met by solar and wind and other safe,renewable resources. ( , )
Our agriculture practices are out of date, Superior options are available. ( Virtually any crop can be grown with low usage of pesticides.)
So to recap: Scarcity is not a concern in the modern world. Capitalism has become a system that protects inferior products because superior products are less-or-not profitable. Solar is capable of meeting our power requirements but Coal,Natural gas and Oil are Billion(s) dollar industries in their own respect. Nether food nor energy is scarce. Nor is Water if we stop polluting and wasting on Hydofracking.

A highly sophisticated computer program is in charge of managing the other autonomous systems that transport and manufacture our products. In short: Robots managing robots, with little human interaction. A system that is In fact achievable in our generation.

Next you brought up Currency and money. In a full RBE, a currency is pointless and our things wouldn't be valuable at all. That idea seems to scare people who are for reasons beyond my understanding FIXATED on how much they are worth... I contend that this is a really unhealthy system, as evidenced by how the capitalist society treats its "elite" v. its lowest members. But let me break this idea of currency down, you suggested that some forms of labor are more valuable than others. Think of it this way, Is your digestive track any less important than your heart? ... No... you'd die if either one ceased functioning... all be it one would kill you faster. The cells that carry oxygen to your heart are no less valuable to you than the cells that protect your body from foreign invaders.

The body does not argue over which organ is more important or which cell demands more attention. In a RBE, laborious jobs are automated. Housing construction, Automated. Waste disposal: Automated. Assembly jobs: Automated. The human factor would remain in content creation and innovation, research and development and cultural services.

Here is why Capitalism cannot endure much further: Capitalist system can no longer provide adequate employment for a large sector of its population. " Unskilled labor" I.e. Assembly jobs and cashiers ARE being phased out, its not a future thing.. its happening Now.. as in today, the process is already underway. The "Labour lump" fallacy is often sited by pro-capitalist elements with claims that technology does not destroy but only displaces workers, giving them a change to learn a new trade and go back to school. In the past, this was mostly true how ever the growth of technology is exponential- not linear.

it is no longer adequate to compare the brick and mortar stores being destroyed by Amazon to the elevator operator being replaced a century ago. Automation is now so cheap, so powerful and so much easier to use that it will soon replace positions still performed by humans due to the costs of automation. ( ) for example, Baxter is incredibly cheap and useful and requires almost no technical skill to use.

Technology has simply outpaced the market system. But even the idea of going back to school is restricted by economic status. Higher education is far more expensive than it needs to be....and no one should ever be prohibited form better opportunities based on their current life situation. How ever, American capitalism in particular is dead-set on villianizing the poor... I could draw so many parrells between Capitalist attitude towards the poor and our attitude towards rape victims and more... but I won't do that here.

One last note on currency. An RBE can have a market system if we want a market system, it simply does not require a market system. Its systems of trade would be based on the value of consumption rather than production... remember that nearly all production is done by machines. So every one gets so many credits , call them Energy credits they can spend on things they want, but their needs are met regardless. But RBE once more does not NEED such a system, its optional.

Lastly on the topic of Ownership... Your fears are unfounded. Consider this. Do you REALLY want a camera, or do you want the function of the camera? Do you really need to own- if by contrast you can get one with little effort and return it when your finished using it- like checking it out of a library? Do you want a Yaught or do you want the relaxation and luxury a yacht offers? What if you could escape to the coast any time you wanted on a mass transit system that moves you anywhere in the world at tremendous speeds ( ) and simply check out a lot? What if you could move your home to a new location any time you wanted to move to another entirely with ease? ( ) ( this documentary covers all of the above topics: )

Our ability to produce products no longer has any bearing int eh Capitalist system, We are producing more goods than ever, but people go without. More food than ever, but people still starve while unsold food is thrown away. The average worker in one Hour is more productive today than a worker 20 years ago was in a day. YET, our wages havn't increased proportionally... our hours havn't decreased proportionally and all the while profits in the higher echelons have seen proptionally meteoric rises. The rich are richer Proportionally than ever before, but the poor arn't suffering because they are colelctively lazy... they are suffering under a system that is breaking down from the inside.

The nature of capitalism should not be in dispute... It's primal... based on economic rules that no longer apply. To be blunt with you, if you chose to live ina world where some one else must go with out for you to have more than you need... If you chose a system where people's worth detirmiens their oppertunity, when none of it is nessesary... when a better a world is possible. There is something wrong with you.

Despite the best efforts of naysayers, there are efforts to build functioning RBE societies underway even now. These highly technical groups might be reminisant of communes from the 1960s, but they are far better organized with far more tools at their disposal and I intend to be joining up with one in the next couple of years.;

and many others.
Debate Round No. 2


You make it seem as if robots and artificial intelligence solve everything. They do not. First of all, the fact that RBE requires an advanced AI means it cannot possibly be implemented today. Ironically, the only way to achieve such a system would rely on capitalistic principles. Again, I ask: How can an RBE produce or innovate? Your artificial intelligence and autonomous systems would be impossible to create in an RBE. On top of this, you would rely on a computer program to provide for the needs of billions of people? How would this system determine who deserves what good, how much of it, and for how long? Invariably people would clash because they are no longer in control of their own lives. You keep looking at the outcome, yet you overlook the foundation. To achieve an RBE, people's possessions and wealth would have to be violently stripped from them, then redistributed on the basis of someone's definition of "fairness". No system is self sustaining, and thus requires human involvement. But what incentive do people have to maintain or improve the system in which they live when there is no value to their labor? Then there is the issue of energy. You claim that the only reason solar energy is not widely implemented is that fossil fuels are billion dollar industries. Why do you think that is? Fossil fuels are exponentially more efficient than any renewable resource, and solar power in its state today couldn't provide a fraction of what fossil fuels can. And since fossil fuels aren't unlimited, they will always have a value. Capitalism adapts to market conditions, whereas an RBE couldn't. What if there were a natural disaster in which a major portion of food supply were wiped out? Finally, the idea of being provided for at every step of life is not only impossible, its repulsive. Even if robots could sustain themselves and provide for our every whim, what would the point of living be? Humans are supposed to innovate, to excel, to discover, to explore, to create. The only innovation in an RBE would occur when this AI forced people to by withholding food or necessities. That is what an RBE will dissolve into: mass control over the lives of people. If a person in an RBE desires more, if he wants to excel, how can he do it? He cannot improve himself because every nuance of his life is beyond his control. Therein lies the beauty of capitalism, that the offspring of a poor immigrant can rise to become millionaires. Capitalism is not based on static "classes" as many people like to assume, but rather a fluid movement of people. I think it all boils down to the fact that, yes, an RBE may provide an equality of outcome. But it destroys any notion of opportunity, individualism, and responsibility. And an RBE will inevitably degrade into a violence, because people will want to control their own lives instead of being mandated to by whoever is in power. Thank you for an intelligent discussion.


"You make it seem as if robots and artificial intelligence solve everything. They do not."
- Nothing is Perfect.

" First of all, the fact that RBE requires an advanced AI means it cannot possibly be implemented today."
- This coming from the world's foremost authority on Automation? This A.I is a glorified calculator.

" Ironically, the only way to achieve such a system would rely on capitalistic principles."

- In the same way that the cells in our body still reproduce similar to how our ancient ancestors did. Yes.

"How can an RBE produce or innovate?"

I am going assume you are basing this question on " Who is going to do the work to improve the systems" The answer is who ever wants to. This may sound counter intuitive to all of your years in a capitalist society, but there is plenty of real world evidence that people will innovate with out the need for financial compensation.

Exhibit A: There are many distros of Linux that are more pleasant to use than Windows and are absolutely, 100% free... given freely, distributed freely and developed further by a massive community who devotes their highly skilled efforts-for-free, to developed a product that some one else can use.

I recommend you watch this:

"How would this system determine who deserves what good, how much of it, and for how long?"

- Indiscriminately, by how much resource is available where. As long as they need it. Your fundamentally looking at things as if they must be possessed but the goal of RBE is to accomplish access abundance. Simply meaning that what you want is available when you need or want it. Mind you, living necessities are taken care of already and everything else is practically a want. A large number of the goods you want, will be fabricate from 3D printers. Things like bowls,civil ware,cups and even more complex things will become replicable in the not too distant future.

" Fossil fuels are exponentially more efficient than any renewable resource, and solar power in its state today couldn't provide a fraction of what fossil fuels can."

- At an extremely high cost, environmentally. Many components in the RBE are designed to make more efficient use of power so that the less-energy dense renewable resources still provide a quality of life on par with our modern standard of living in the united states... except for everyone. There is not enough fossil fuels for everyone to live like Americans but there is plenty of sun light,win,tidal and Geo thermal power. Our living spaces must be completely redesigned to optimize energy use, rely mostly on human power to travel " around town" distances while long distance travel is handled by previously pointed out technologies. The city to the future: is circular in design. Other such factors that save energy is a switch to a primarily vegetarian diet.

"No system is self sustaining, and thus requires human involvement."

- I agree, lots of human involvement. You're confusing the lack of requirement to do boring-repetive and energy consuming tasks just to stay alive, for lack of anyone doing anything. Humans love doing things, we like exploring and mastering tasks ( reference: RSA video) and we love accomplishing things. It's in our nature. Only a fraction of our society will do much work, no big deal... Only a fraction of our society does meaningful work today anyways.

" That is what an RBE will dissolve into: mass control over the lives of people."
- This is conjecture.

" If a person in an RBE desires more, if he wants to excel, how can he do it?"

- By creating it himself. I don't think you understand... objects... as in cameras and so forth... have no value. They are just things, which are widely available. In an RBE- all of the information in the human repository can be accessed freely. Anytime. Want to learn how to design electronics? the information is literally there. We already see president for this in the Modern Internet... You tube DIY: Desired topic. Literally any topic. Free universal education is just the next logical step and people do love teaching as well so this free society will also have human professors.

"He cannot improve himself because every nuance of his life is beyond his control."

-This statement has no basis, I suspect you have not been clicking my links or if you have- you have not been fully taking in their content. the RBE is a service, not a government. There is really little need for a government by I suspect we will have some type of Government anyways. It might resemble a republican democracy, or it might be a semi-representative democracy. It won't have a great amount of power either way as its task is more maintenance,research and development.

" Therein lies the beauty of capitalism, that the offspring of a poor immigrant can rise to become millionaires. "

That was beautiful in the early 20th century. Even though it still happens today... its one person that lives a beautiful life while his brothers and sisters less than a 100 miles away are living in poverty. This is what I was talking about the Capitalist conservative vilifying the poor and blaming the helpless for being helpless. It isn't beautiful at all when we have technology and production enough to give everyone what they need, when they need it. Its disgusting... its preserve... and its sick to see some guy running around in a Hummer... or a laborgini while he justifies to him self living on the backs of the people who made his wealth possible. It is revolting as sewage.

"Capitalism is not based on static "classes" as many people like to assume, but rather a fluid movement of people."

- Did I say the classes where static... no people rise and fall all the time, but there are still classes and static or not, money buys you anything you like, even immunity from justice as I demonstrated. What a corrupt and sick way of looking at the world causes people to admire those who waste the most resources among us, gorging them selves at others expense?

Do you really want to know where your 5$ walmart T-shirts come from... ,
The truth will make you miss the old days when we used Mexican child labor.

" an RBE may provide an equality of outcome."

- Than why are we still debating this?

"But it destroys any notion of opportunity, individualism, and responsibility."

- All of this is conjecture.

" . And an RBE will inevitably degrade into a violence, because people will want to control their own lives instead of being mandated to by whoever is in power. "

- I still don't think you really took in any of my sources. RBE will give you more control... So much so that you will not be localized to any one location, an RBE will be global. hop on the train and go to Germany for a day... or hit the beach in California. Go attend a lecture in Sweden or maybe stay with your cousin in Michigan for a weekend. Anyone, everyone, when ever they wish. The RBE offers the elite life style to everyone. This the difference science makes, this is the difference made by using systems strategies in our real world, daily lives.

In conclusion, RBE offers us every thing that we have ever been promised... the paradise world of tomorrow. We can buy it for your children and their children at the price of letting go of our old systems. They served us well in the past, RBE is made possible because we had a capitalist system... HAD, a capitalist system. These systems are no longer serving us. Capitalism is no longer doing what it promised our forefathers.

We have out grown it.

The power to chose the world of tomorrow is ours today. CHOSE.

Thank you pro for the debate, I very much enjoyed our exchange. Feel free to issue a challenge at any time.

Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Jevinigh 7 years ago
There are a few problems with your premise, mainly that it represents an extreme over simplification of humans and our behavior. It turns out that Humans aren't endlessly manipulable by carrots on sticks as old-school capitalist models present. You have also neglected the reality that Money begins money, the system we have now is not just "Capitalism" it is " Market : Capitalism ". In the modern incarnation of Capitalist doctrines, Money can produce more money via. trading with out actually producing anything in the economy. To understand this deeply I encourage you to Google search " Commodity leveraging" as a starting point.
Posted by AizenKnaik 7 years ago
I think capitalism is the best system a country could come up with. Primarily, it is a catalyst for economic development in a way that it promotes goods and services in a market for example. Also, in the capitalism, competition is present. With the existence of the economic competition, a country could easily progress. In addition to that, demand and supply of the goods and services are used to observe the flow of the economy. Incentives are present. A valuable employee of a certain corporation will be 'incentivized' so as he/she will be inspired in his/her work and will rather make it good. Prior to that, from the term itself, 'capitalism' is a system that makes more capital or money or it could be that it is a system which is expected to make more money. A state wanting to meet that expectation will prosper and have their economy be developed at its best. So once again, capitalism still serves as the best system when we talk of economic development.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Seeginomikata 7 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: This is a theory debate. Theoretically, there are many systems better than capitalism, "better" being such a flexible and subjective word. Con argued very well.
Vote Placed by Enoch_deftinwolf 7 years ago
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Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: con have effectively debunked capitalism. but i still skeptical about this REB.

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