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# chicken or egg came first- i argue the egg

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MrJosh
 Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point Started: 6/26/2014 Category: Philosophy Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period Viewed: 1,038 times Debate No: 57172
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 Pro answer: the egg. the lithmus test for whether the chicken or egg came first, should be a defined list of DNA being met. science is inexact in listing what constitutes a species. if the animal meets criteria like two wings a beak two chicken legs etc, then it is a chicken. the problem is that this is an inexact science. it is sufficient for everyday use, sure. but a line has to be drawn. how do we draw it? the only way is to make a criteria in DNA and stick to it. we run into a problem similar to someone trying to sell something. a man wants to sell his 57 chevy for ten thousand. would be take a penny less? sure. two pennies? you see where i'm going with this. the man must set a limit. 9500 and not a penny less? so someone were to offer him a penny less and he doesn't take it, is it really a firm limit? in practice, the man might take it, but we all know a point must be drawn. in practice, scientists might take less than a nucleotide or piece of DNA, but a point must be drawn. what constitutes a chicken then will have a firm limit. in the line of chicken like animals before a chicken, there will be close calls no doubt. but it will be one animal that will evetually fill the criteria, meet the DNA match's minimum. and that animal will be first an egg, which hatches into the chicken that meets the match. practically, the parents of the chicken might be called chickens in everyday use, but a line indeed must be drawn, so they technically are not chickens.Report this Argument Con I would like to thank PRO for setting up this debate. I will be arguing that the chicken came before the egg. Since PRO has not offered one, I will now present a definition for “egg:” “An oval or round object laid by a female bird, reptile, fish, or invertebrate, usually containing a developing embryo [1].” The Chicken Comes First With that out of the way, I would like to say that I accept everything PRO has argued to this point. However, PRO fails to take into account the details of chicken development. In the development of a chicken embryo, we start with an oocyte, the cell that will be fertilized and eventually become the next generation of chicken. After ovulation, the oocyte is fertilized in the oviduct, after which numerous things happen, including the addition of a membrane which will become the egg white, and finally, just before the egg is laid, the shell is added [2]. PRO has done an excellent job describing how there is a line drawn where an animal is a new species from a genetic point of view. Regardless of where in history this this took place, the genetic changes were present in the fertilized conceptus before the egg formed around it. Before the membranes and shell I described formed, the embryo could not be considered an egg because it is not an “oval or round object” capable of being laid by a female. Therefore, the chicken came before the egg. Sources: Report this Argument Pro well, con may have got me on a technicality. to the spirit of the debate, though, i still maintain the egg came first.Report this Argument Con I would like to thank PRO for her concession, however, I fail to see how the "spirit of the debate" changes anything. If we were to disregard my argument (which I do not), we would run into the chicken and the egg arising simultaneously (which I almost argued). They arose in the same generation. I would like to thank PRO for this debate, it was actually more interesting than I thought it would be when I accepted it. Report this Argument Pro well, i'm not sure how retracting concessions would work, but i think i might retract it, or consider it. it is more than the spirit of the debate, but the clear intent, that we are asking about the chicken egg or the parent chicken, which came first? con in his opening statement is trying to equate "chicken" with the embryonic chicken, clearly missing the intent of the debate, as again that 'chicken' reference was clearly referring to the egg's parents. i suppose i could be faulted for not being technically correct, in that *some* chicken came first, the chicken that turned into the egg. but at least it was not the chicken that was being referred to in the opening proposition of the debate. we both could be faulted for our approach, but i would contend that my approach was at least less egregious.Report this Argument Con I thank PRO for her final round comments. I suppose whether or not a concession can be retracted will be decided by the voters. Regarding the spirit of the debate, I fail to see how PRO's opening comments suggest a parent chicken. In fact, I would suggest that PRO's whole discussion of DNA negates that line of discussion, as the genetic code (DNA) of the adult chicken is "written" at fertilization. My point about the chicken coming into existence before the egg remains unchallenged. Overall, I would like to thank PRO for an interesting debate.Report this Argument
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by CrazyCowMan 7 years ago
Obviously the egg.
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