The Instigator
unknown777
Con (against)
The Contender
asta
Pro (for)

death penalty

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Time Remaining
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/3/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 796 times Debate No: 113459
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

unknown777

Con

Sup i saw your supportive comment on capital punishment http://www.debate.org...

I'll understand if you accept it late for you may have another ongoing debates.
The goal of this is to convince each other's mind about killing an inmate.
asta

Pro

Hi. I'm assuming this is just an acceptance round. I support the death penalty's existence for extreme crimes.

Good luck con.
Debate Round No. 1
unknown777

Con

Nice ,we're different, I believe death penalty should be completely abolished good luck to you too.

Please look at these images , these are the procedure of death penalty
guillotine : https://www.google.com...:
Firing squad: https://www.google.com...:
Hanging: https://www.google.com...:

Eye for an eye is reacting to evil by doing evil ,there's no good at this we should conquer evil by kindness, we should not add another wickedness for we stand for justice and the right thing, and the right things isn't evil, we shouldn't accept two lesser evil for this doesn't lessen wickedness into this world. we should show love for the imperfect citizen, nationalism and humanity inside prison and show power to deal with the risk without the use of violence for we aren't a fool.

If our friends are killed and raped, we can be saddened, we can be angered but this should'nt dictate our decision because our emotion is not always right, it can be wrong We should be slow to anger, we should'nt let anger control our justice system,we should look at the outcome and be open to the things or people that are affected. If we know killing is wrong we should'nt do it, if we know we're hurting somebody, don't do it.

Criminal won't learn anything in death penalty and only cowards will fear death penalty

Murder (illegal killing) will be lessen but not the killing and violence for the government participates in it using capital punishment.

The continuation of death penalty means another death of an innocent for the government accepted the risk of it while using a flawed system.

Hanging is cheap but morality can't be determined by cheapness, money should not be ruling our decision.

Lethal injection is never humane, killing is never humane but it can be less and more cruel yet it is always cruel.

Killing an inmate is injustice, killing is never justice, killing for someone else (victim) is not acceptable , being cruel is not okay, killing someone is not fine.

It's not because of what the criminal had done but who we are, all who kill is a killer, now that the government kills they are a killer just like the people they are punishing. They kill somebody who kills somebody, the government is not innocent because they don't do what innocent and humane people does, they do what the criminal does.

We can deter without death penalty ,if jail isn't working then lock the inmate from head to fingers from there the inmate cannot move and rehabilitate them severely to make them compatible in society so the issue here is death penalty's morality and you have to justify killing.
asta

Pro

I can't look at the images because Google is blocked on my computer. If you showed the link for those instead, then (assuming it's not YouTube since that's blocked too) I could look at the images.

Eye for an eye is reacting to evil by doing on to the criminal as he has done on to innocent victims, so he knows what it's like and if he fears death, then he won't give it to innocent people. "Conquering" evil by kindness is just like we should give money to thefts as a legal reward for stealing. If you reward a behavior, you will get more of it and vice versa. Your not making the situation worse by executing the murderer. If someone steals $50, they should have the $50 taken away from him. If you take back the money from the thief, does that make you a thief for taking the money back? No. It makes you a confiscator. Murder is different from execution as Confiscation is from theft. Saying "Why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing is wrong?" is just like saying, "Why do we steal from people who steal from people to show that stealing is wrong?" There's different types of killing just as there are different types of taking.

Criminals should get rehabilitated in general unless they committed an unforgivable crime. If they drove drunk without killing anyone, they endure their punishment and they get out of jail. If they stole $50K, then they should endure their sentences and punishments and get out. These are all forgivable crimes. Their crimes were fixable and some were even reversible. Although drunk driving is not necessarily totally reversible, it is fixable if no one got hurt and the only thing damaged are assets. Criminals of this crime can be made to not be as clingy to alcohol or if they like alcohol, they can get an Uber account so they can get home from a bar. Someone who stole $50K can easily reverse their crime by having the money returned or if it's not, then they could be a prison "slave" in order to pay off their debt. This is legal in the 13th amendment.

It is wrong to base punishments on the 5 minutes of anger that someone has. That's why their is a 3rd party jury that does not feel as much emotion pain over a stranger as the prosecutor would. They don't base their decision on the sole basis of emotion(pathos). The jury bases sentences on logic (logos), morals (ethos) and the law. Anger and other emotions barely affect the criminal justice system. Pretty much the only person that if effected from this is the murderer, who either dies or lives. If you want people to think that murder is bad, execute them for killing. Just as people get jail for kidnapping(which is a vigilantic jail), people should get executed for murder and escaping jail, (that's another section)

Criminals would fear the death penalty and as a result would not want to commit murder. The fear would get so ingrained into them that it would cause that anti murder ideology to go into their morals so not only would they be afraid of murdering but they would also believe that it is morally wrong (generally speaking). If only cowards fear the death penalty, then it looks like I'm a coward because I'm scared of death in general.

2 countries, Similar culture, similar history:
Belarus has the death penalty: Their homicide rate is 3.58 per 100,000
Ukraine does not: Their homicide rate is 4.36 per 100,000
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Only 4.1% of convicts for murder are actually innocent. (This is religious) If your executed innocent, since atheist criminals tend to convert out of fear of hell, once they get executed innocently, they would go to heaven. Even if your secular, the innocent inmates would probably be thinking hopeful thoughts at the deathbed.
http://www.newsweek.com...

I wouldn't necessarily want to hang criminals to their deaths. I want them to die with the same amount of pain they murdered times the number of people they killed. If a murderer murders one person by a gunshot, he gets shot in the same place. If he murders 2 people by the same method, he dies a way twice s painfully.

"Killing an inmate is injustice, killing is never justice, killing for someone else (victim) is not acceptable , being cruel is not okay, killing someone is not fine." Apply this statement to abortion and then you will be more consistent.

There are multiple types of killing. There is murder, manslaughter, execution, and other types of killing. The murderer denying execution when they murdered someone else is kind of hypocrisy. The government killing the murderer is a form of punishment for committing a serious crime. The murderer murdering innocent people is one of the most serious crimes in the United States.

You deter more effectively with the death penalty since it's better to live a bad life then no life at all. If no life is better then a bad life, then most poor people would commit suicide. Despite many people saying, "I would rather die than be in prison for life", if they are actually put in the situation where they commit murder, then they probably would rather live in jail then being executed because staring death in the face is scary.
Debate Round No. 2
unknown777

Con

I can't look at the images because Google is blocked on my computer. If you showed the link for those instead, then (assuming it's not YouTube since that's blocked too) I could look at the images.
That's okay those are just pics of a dead people beheaded, hanged and shot which we can see on capital punishment

Eye for an eye is reacting to evil by doing on to the criminal as he has done on to innocent victims, so he knows what it's like and if he fears death, then he won't give it to innocent people.
What did the inmate do to the victim? Evil things so the government will do the same.

"Conquering" evil by kindness is just like we should give money to thefts as a legal reward for stealing.
being kind doesnt mean being dumb

If you reward a behavior, you will get more of it and vice versa.
We're not going to reward them, We will lecture them by rehabilitating them so they could not ruin their own and other's life

Your not making the situation worse by executing the murderer.
We're welcoming violence, that's the worse thing you didn't notice.

If someone steals $50, they should have the $50 taken away from him. If you take back the money from the thief, does that make you a thief for taking the money back? No. It makes you a confiscator. Murder is different from execution as Confiscation is from theft. Saying "Why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing is wrong?" is just like saying, "Why do we steal from people who steal from people to show that stealing is wrong?" There's different types of killing just as there are different types of taking.
Yeah sure but all types of killing is violence, you should disagree with it

Criminals should get rehabilitated in general unless they committed an unforgivable crime. If they drove drunk without killing anyone, they endure their punishment and they get out of jail. If they stole $50K, then they should endure their sentences and punishments and get out. These are all forgivable crimes. Their crimes were fixable and some were even reversible. Although drunk driving is not necessarily totally reversible, it is fixable if no one got hurt and the only thing damaged are assets. Criminals of this crime can be made to not be as clingy to alcohol or if they like alcohol, they can get an Uber account so they can get home from a bar. Someone who stole $50K can easily reverse their crime by having the money returned or if it's not, then they could be a prison "slave" in order to pay off their debt. This is legal in the 13th amendment.
All crimes are forgiven if you got chance search 'church forgive killer'at google. Legal laws can have flaws at morality sometimes.

It is wrong to base punishments on the 5 minutes of anger that someone has. That's why their is a 3rd party jury that does not feel as much emotion pain over a stranger as the prosecutor would. They don't base their decision on the sole basis of emotion(pathos). The jury bases sentences on logic (logos), morals (ethos) and the law. Anger and other emotions barely affect the criminal justice system. Pretty much the only person that if effected from this is the murderer, who either dies or lives. If you want people to think that murder is bad, execute them for killing. Just as people get jail for kidnapping(which is a vigilantic jail), people should get executed for murder and escaping jail, (that's another section)
All eye on eye is base on emotion, if people don't care on what they feel, they would not take revenge.

Criminals would fear the death penalty and as a result would not want to commit murder. The fear would get so ingrained into them that it would cause that anti murder ideology to go into their morals so not only would they be afraid of murdering but they would also believe that it is morally wrong (generally speaking). If only cowards fear the death penalty, then it looks like I'm a coward because I'm scared of death in general.
We should'nt kill to scare people. We don't need death penalty to believe killing is wrong. Have courage and don't be scared at death, we should not fear something that should not be feared in the first place.

2 countries, Similar culture, similar history:
Belarus has the death penalty: Their homicide rate is 3.58 per 100,000
Ukraine does not: Their homicide rate is 4.36 per 100,000
https://en.wikipedia.org......
can't dispute you
South Africa has the highest crime rate and they have death penalty while Japan has the lowest crime rate and with death penalty but I still believe we can improve restorative justice system.




Only 4.1% of convicts for murder are actually innocent. (This is religious) If your executed innocent, since atheist criminals tend to convert out of fear of hell, once they get executed innocently, they would go to heaven. Even if your secular, the innocent inmates would probably be thinking hopeful thoughts at the deathbed.
http://www.newsweek.com......

i can't just accept that innocent are dead because of capital punishment


I wouldn't necessarily want to hang criminals to their deaths. I want them to die with the same amount of pain they murdered times the number of people they killed. If a murderer murders one person by a gunshot, he gets shot in the same place. If he murders 2 people by the same method, he dies a way twice s painfully.
Just because you wish it doesn't mean it's right, be slow to anger bro.

"Killing an inmate is injustice, killing is never justice, killing for someone else (victim) is not acceptable , being cruel is not okay, killing someone is not fine." Apply this statement to abortion and then you will be more consistent.
Haha I am already, i'm a pro life

There are multiple types of killing. There is murder, manslaughter, execution, and other types of killing. The murderer denying execution when they murdered someone else is kind of hypocrisy. The government killing the murderer is a form of punishment for committing a serious crime. The murderer murdering innocent people is one of the most serious crimes in the United States.
The government accept capital punishment because they focus on ""what's going to happen to the people they're killing (inmate) " rather than "what they're doing (killing) "
You see all killers are unpunished , the government is one of them because they punish people.
Punishing doesn't lessen any violence into this world that's why I believe restorative justice and rehabilitation is better to focus on.

You deter more effectively with the death penalty since it's better to live a bad life then no life at all. If no life is better then a bad life, then most poor people would commit suicide. Despite many people saying, "I would rather die than be in prison for life", if they are actually put in the situation where they commit murder, then they probably would rather live in jail then being executed because staring death in the face is scary.
Death penalty isnt the only effective solution that can deter. Inmates desire better life more than death.
asta

Pro

1) Send me the link and I probably can view and analyze them.

2) There is a difference between murder and execution.

3)Given that prison experience for murderers is better then life for many poor people, my analogy is kind of consistent.

Perks of being a prisioner:

-They get 3 meals a day. If they don't like the food, then they often make their own.
-This kindof goes with the one above. They get to participate in the Ramen trade(https://www.npr.org...)
-Clean clothes
-Getting paid for stuff

http://dailycaller.com...
https://www.thrillist.com...
https://www.huffingtonpost.com...

Since murderers are getting these perks that they wouldn't get if they were poor, they kind of are getting paid to be a murderer. This should not be the case. Good things should get rewarded proportionally and bad things should get punished proportionally. Prisoners are in jail because they are accused of doing bad things and the murderers should get punished with death, not rewarded with prison.

4) Murderers tend to be people who didn't do very well in school. Lectures aren't effective for people who didn't do well in school. Besides, murderers would tend to ignore anything that's being preached. If you went into a room that wasn't a church but had a lot of Christians in it and you start ranting about how much you hate god, they will probably ignore you since they disagree with what your saying. Since murderers probably believe killing people is okay, it's fine to believe that if it just stays as a belief, but when you kill someone else on the basis of that belief, just don't be surprised when the law does it to you.

5)I am not welcoming violence. I am punishing it with violence directed against the murderer instead of violence perpetrated against the murderer.

6)Not all types of killing are wrong. Is the military wrong? No. If the US withdrew it's military, then more innocent people would die from the power that fills the vacuum left behind by the US.

7)The bible supports eye for an eye for justice purposes. Any time it tells you to turn the other cheek, this is because there is a difference between being a vigilantic and being an executioner.

A vigilantic does not have the authority to execute, an executioner does. The bible allows the executioner to execute, since he does not have as much stored hatred inside of him.

A vigilantic is more likely to kill an innocent person. If my brother was murdered by someone I have never seen, I may sort through it all on my own, but whoever I think is the suspect, I probably will be wrong. The law on the other hand, gets the answer right much more often because of the following:
a) They have tools that I wouldn't have, like DNA testers, the storage of many people's DNA
b) They are professionals in their field, so they have more experience then a victim like myself.

Because of that, vigilantic people tend to not be the ones who carry out executions, whereas equipped, experienced officials are.

8)It's not the victim's relatives taking the revenge, it's the justice system that performs the punishment. The judge does not harbor as much emotion as the victims. I can also make a case that anti-death penalty people use emotion themselves since they care about the murderer.

9) In order to reduce murder, executions ideally should fill the void.

10) Actually, while South Africa has a homicide rate and Japan has a low homicide rate, South Africa abolished the death penalty while the death penalty is active in Japan (https://en.wikipedia.org...).

11)Only 4.1% of convicts for murder are actually innocent. (This is religious) If your executed innocent, since atheist criminals tend to convert out of fear of hell, once they get executed innocently, they would go to heaven. Even if your secular, the innocent inmates would probably be thinking hopeful thoughts at the deathbed.
http://www.newsweek.com.........

12) Read #11

13 If I drove my judgment on the sole basis of anger, then I would be wanting them burned alive for killing one person with a gunshot. If someone murdered one person with a gunshot, then I want the murderer to get killed by gunshot.

14) Nice job. I am as well.

15)The government within the United States, if they support the death penalty they almost always want it for murderers because the murderer morally should experience the pain they inflicted on their victim. The government only does it because someone has to kill them, the victim is dead, the victim can't kill anyone.
Punishing doesn't lessen any violence into this world that's why I believe restorative justice and rehabilitation is better to focus on.

16)It is not the only punishment that can deter but it is the most moral and effective punishment for prisoners.

P.S. How do you bold things?
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
I accepted it.
Posted by unknown777 3 years ago
unknown777
Alright, i'll be the instigator, just accept the challenge that i will send you.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
Can you be the instigator?
Posted by unknown777 3 years ago
unknown777
Haha yes sure bro, send me a challenge debate.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
I'm about to bold the next section to see if it works.

B
Do you want to start a fresh debate?
B
Posted by unknown777 3 years ago
unknown777
@asta I guess I missed the round. We had no wifi yesterday and the yesterday of yesterday. No one has the right to kill bro, not even themselves. To bold text , click the letter 'B' at the top of the draft box before you type the words you plan to bold, then click it again to stop bolding words.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
P.S. How do you bold text?
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
I am not saying that depressed people should commit suicide. In fact I discourage it. But if someone wants to voluntarily kill themselves, then I can tell them "Stop, don't do it" but it's simply not my call if them committing suicide does not infringe on the rights of others. Anything that does not infringe on the rights of others or the nation should be legal.

Help for suicidal people should be legal. The government should not subsidize it, but the government can encourage suicidal people to get help and can advertise companies that can help them (like 411).
Posted by unknown777 3 years ago
unknown777
@AlexandreTheThriceGreat
Nice one dude
I realized we got no power to kill ourselves but I understand the law maker, death shouldn't be welcomed in the first place and those innocent suicidals need pyschiatrist instead of suicide because killing your self is not okay.

Giving a Penalty code to a suicidal (I think ) is a flaw. We should'nt punish a harmless sad person but to gain emotional support because truly, punishment can do nothing with this issue.

In terms of inmates, people think they should be killed for they are a threat to society. There's a redemption which is being done in the name of 'eye for an eye' If you didn't kill anyone, then they will do the same to you.
Why ,do you want to die bro?
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
People condemn extreme criminals to death doing extreme things in the US, most common is murder. People have to do something extremely bad to deserve execution.

I support the right to attempted suicide (with an exception to pregnant women since suicide would kill more people than just them) but it should be strongly discouraged by society for everyone else.
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