The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
missjones
Con (against)

god doesn't want you to be happy!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/10/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 693 times Debate No: 112561
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

Taken from "The Atheist Republic"
Joel Osteen is the senior pastor of Lakewood Church, a megachurch in Houston, Texas. It is the largest congregation in the United States, averaging more than 43,500 in attendance per week. Osteen is often thought of within the Christian world as almost more of a motivational speaker than a pastor in the traditional sense; so, it shouldn"t have come as much of a surprise when his wife and ministry partner Victoria said something in a sermon that brought the heresy hunters running with teeth bared.

"I just want to encourage everyone of us to realize when we obey God, we"re not doing it for God " I mean, that"s one way to look at it " we"re doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we"re happy. So I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy. When you come to church, when you worship Him, you"re not doing it for God really. You"re doing it for yourself, because that"s what makes God happy."

In other words, God doesn"t want your obedience for its own sake, he wants you to obey him because it"s good for you, it helps make your life better and that is what pleases him. The gist of what she said, even from a Christian perspective " a progressively liberal one anyway " wasn"t all that shocking. The problem is that it"s difficult to convince people to be religious if you don"t also compel them to sacrifice their own self-interests.

Which is why after finding out what Victoria said, there were reactions like this from Steve Camp, Pastor at Cross Church in Palm City:

"It"s the age-old sin of idolatry " that it"s not about God, it"s about us. True worship for the humanist is about how we feel at the end of the day and what gives us meaning, as opposed to what gives God glory""

This is representative of most of the negative reactions to Victoria"s statement. Another common response is along the lines of what Mini Carlsson posted in response to our story, "...hmmm, didn't jesus say one is to hate their own life in order to be a disciple? may be she skipped that part"

Anthony Toohey replied, "Thank you for reminding us why Christianity is a cesspool of self-hatred and degradation."

Winston Gainey also made an astute comment to the story which was very popular, "Love how the snake oil salesman are criticizing her for improperly selling snake oil :)"

It is definitely difficult to comprehend why Victoria"s comments could possibly be construed as bad, but, in Christian orthodoxy, those who say the types of things that Victoria said are seen as idolaters because they are putting the self before God. Religious people are fundamentally motivated to "do good" out of an often very sincere desire to please God. Some "good things" make good common humanist sense. Others are a bit more difficult to understand. So the believer turns to their Holy Book(s) and Clergy for guidance. But at the end of the day, the believer isn"t supposed to be living for him/herself but rather at the pleasure of God.

In the mind of the atheist, doing what works for me and also caring about others makes good common sense. But in the mind of the religious, this is blasphemy. The religious person must be thinking about what pleases God and what God is commanding. All behavior must start from there.

So, when a pastor"s wife tells the congregation to obey God for their own benefit " because it is good for them and makes them happy " well, you can see where that might lead. If I am doing good for my own benefit, why would I need God? If I can figure out what is in the best interests of myself and my fellow human beings without a holy book or clergy then the book become obsolete and the clergy are out of jobs.

As commenter Holly Staggs pointed out, "Christianity has such a large following because people want to believe in something more, but they want to be able to live how they want....and with the bible you have that flexibility. IMO, it pretty much says whatever you want it to say. Guess it doesn't hurt that if you are a really good speaker/people person there can be large sums of money it too!"

What about you? What motivates you in your life without god and religion?

dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process.
missjones

Con

Hello! I accept your debate!! yay
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

Seasoned beatings! Oh whoopps. Sorry. A deliberate miss-steak on my part. I meant to say greetings, yeah that's it. I'm really not a person of "acceptance" rounds because after all that is a waste of a round when there could be some fine debating going on. And looking at your scrumptious death defying dildo desire killer p**sy (great band of the the past) profile I must say that I've never come across one as in your face, but Mikey likes it, as yours. Now I am a true music lover and some of the bands you list are not available on youtube for my ears to hear, so I must ask how I can find them? And yeah I get that its not part of the debate, but so what? its not everyday, well actually never until this very day, that I've come across someone as unique as you. And if you take a look-see-do at my profile there may be a lot of surprises that you may like as well. No all of it isn't grindcore nor death metal, but some of what I listen to does pulverize it such as what I think does as Melt Banana and granted they are not for everybody...
http://www.youtube.com... - T for Tone
http://www.youtube.com... - Chain Shot to Have Some Fun
http://www.youtube.com... - Einsturzende Neubauten ZNS
http://www.youtube.com... - Einsturzende Neubauten Headcleaner (the heaviest song I've ever heard and I saw this)
http://www.youtube.com... - Igorrr is the band I'm really into now. This is a crazy live performance, Some of the very best drumming there is, screams from nowhere, soprano vocals, weird electronics = genius to me that cannot be categorized into any genre.
http://www.youtube.com... - he Pigpen (Igorrr's perspective) = genius animation and composition of electronics
Well I hope you like that selection of songs if you have not heard of the bands. And it isn't every day I get to come across someone as unique and as profound and as upfront and as bold and as daring as you and I most certainly appreciate that!!!
So let's get this debate started if you wish, or we can debate something else, Please always tc and have fun -Michael
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by jent0401 3 years ago
jent0401
What do you mean 'fully explained'?
You just copy and pasted a debate post. When I defined the terms used and, at the same time, presented my argument, you had a cry.

Why don't we try again?
I'm more than happy to debate you. Even if you don't have the self control to not use incoherent slurs.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@jent0401 - That was fully explained to you. If you don't like it, that's not my problem that's yours.
Posted by jent0401 3 years ago
jent0401
This guy just belittled me and then didn't reply in debate.
Posted by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
Psalm 37:4 Take delight in the LORD, and he will give you the desires of your heart.

Case closed.
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 3 years ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
Ps: backwardseden I do care about you and yes am somewhat concerned Please go and seek help from your local psychiatric clinic. As you have lost the plot.
Can anyone please tell me when an atheist's started preaching religion?
Maybe it was today.

Peace be with you backwardseden and take a long walk with Jesus along the sand on the beach and wonder why there is but one pair of footprints. Are you carrying Jesus or is Jesus carrying you?
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 3 years ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
you truly are a numb nut. I have many times tried to have a debate with you but you still continuously hide away with your great wall of text. What are you really 50 something going onto 18. I remmeber being 18 years old and much like you I was a know all know nothing. At least try and act your age not your shoe size you poor miss guided fool.

You are no more then a troll and yes I will not bother with even considering that you are anything else but that.

Writen off Back Wards Eden. But befor eI do are you Richard Dawkins?
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@Missjones you have changed your profile drastically. I humbly apologize if I have offended you in any way. Regardless I hope you like the music posted. If so, pretty please with sugar and beef jerky on top let me know and if not please let me know. Thanx.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@2far4u2CharlesDarwin - This will be my final communication to you should you waste your time in leaving your repository on my debates anymore, because all you are trying to do is p**s me off and for no other reason with your severe and utter lack of intelligence and an edumacation. Now that's not with saying that I might not leave my sharpened wit and dreamy huggable nosepicks on your debates because you have no ability to debate anyone as your brains are splattered all over the johnny b baddddd tire iron lung flat breasted junk He -Man and and She-Ra pick up sticks company. Its not my fault that you are unloved and have no genuine friends or loved ones. That's yours. And if you say that you do, you'd be one big fat liar as always. Your invisible man made god doesn't love you either. Well maybe his superior ego complex with his sidekick Hitler devout christian (as proved) gummy bear does. I on the other hand do have genuine friends, and for a very long time. I have 3 for 42+ years. 1 for 17+ years and 1 for 16+ years in which you cannot possibly be a day older than in you being the spoiled little brat powderpuff neanderthal who sleeps through a nuclear war that you are. Why do I have these GENUINE friends AND YOU DON'T? Its because we don't B.S. each other. And they would all die for me, and I for them. You are a true born loser that only seeks attention. And since you do not know how to attract positive attention, you seek negative attention. And I'm not going to give you ---any--- attention. I've outgrown you and you are not worth my time for my debates and I will bypass your ignorance and arrogance.
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 3 years ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
And still, you hide behind you debate regulated settings. You are the only one that is not happy because you are a bitter old man.
All are tired of people like you here. We could have a vote if we would like him or her to leave or stay.

I vote yes that backwardseden should be ban from this site for a number of months.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Typical idiot christian rhetoric coming from the schnauz of someone who thinks he is a christian when its a true impossibility. The article in which was point blank pointed out from the very top was taken from somewhere else, so they are not "my quotes. But then again you who flame broil your you know where area over hot lava in an attempt to boil cancerous tea, CANNOT READ which is what those who claim themselves to be christians have a very hard time in doing. So you were saying something about "scripture"? Especially when you cannot even prove that YOUR god nor christ has ever existed and especially that your god would never choose to use text as a source of communication, the worst form of communication to your god in the first place considering the fact that "scriptures" are not evidence of any kind. Um no that's not what the pastors are saying. Try reading the entire article again. And if you are actually stupid enough to actually believe the crap that 2 timothy 3: 16-17 says, then you haven't read your bible AT ALL. But that's not a surprise, but then again the verses read, and who cares which abomination you are reading, the Swahili version perhaps? "16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." It doesn't say one god damned thing about the bible being "harmonious without contradiction" in which your bible is most certainly not harmonious and has a good 1,000 or so contradictions and inconsistencies. But you wouldn't know that, but you who claims to be a christian, you have not read your bible beyond page 1. I truly find you and your kind insulting, and I'm an atheist, to your so-called religion, which does not exist.
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