The Instigator
missmedic
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
flakypie
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

god is not needed for morality

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/22/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 800 times Debate No: 118660
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (14)
Votes (0)

 

missmedic

Pro

Can atheists be moral? Religion and morality are closely linked in the minds of many people. It is widely believed you can't have one without the other. And if morality needs religion, Then what does that say about atheists? Can they be moral? Can there be a morality without God?
flakypie

Con

Is it:
Con: god is not needed for morality
Con: god Is needed for morality.

(I'll accept either way
Debate Round No. 1
missmedic

Pro

Humans and other mammals evolved with an innate knowledge of right and wrong, I. E. Caring for their young, Not killing their own kind, Respecting the person and property (territory, Shelter, And food) of others of their own kind. Humans have developed sophisticated laws about these things, Many of them enshrined in religion. With the separation of state and religion, It became evident that morality exists outside religion. That is because we evolved that way. It"s a survival mechanism of social groups. Human communities share most morals no matter what religion they are, Thus making god unnecessary.
Religious morality is dogmatic and authoritarian, Making followers obedient not moral and unable to improve their morality.
It's only through abandoning certain widespread religious ideas that progress towards a truly just and consistent morality is possible. There's an ongoing need to develop and refine our moral understanding. The problem is the false and morally corrupting idea that the lawmaker is perfect. It's corrupting because, In causing us to accept unjust laws, It leaves us defending the indefensible.
flakypie

Con

flakypie forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
missmedic

Pro

on to the next debate
flakypie

Con

I am incredibly sorry, As I was preoccupied with other matters.
Religion has seriously impacted human morals and ethics as we know it today.
I can prove this by making a simple comparison, The evidence being provided by your own understanding.
The morals of animals are different than that of humans. We can see this in the respect that we, As humans, Have evolved differently from them in the ways of morals and ethics. Because of our religion, Our values of good and evil have been developed, And this started out as there being the law so that god would not smite you. Religious belief have been the cause for justification for murder and bloodshed, And in the animal kingdom it's food, There aren't laws that protect endangered amimals.
Debate Round No. 3
missmedic

Pro

what is your point
flakypie

Con

If animals had our theistic religion, They would have what we would call more complex and evolved morals. God and our theistic worldview has impacted society and it's morals. If the entire populous suddenly turn atheist, It's unlikely that there would be chaos, You can't argue that it hasn't impacted morality.
Debate Round No. 4
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by flakypie 3 years ago
flakypie
Not my best work. . . . At all. I am so sorry I tried to Lincoln-Douglass my way into this.
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
I think questions will be answered in the debate with Skye, Https://www. Debate. Org/debates/secular-morality-is-superior-to-biblical-morality/1/
Posted by GuitarSlinger 3 years ago
GuitarSlinger
regarding my question #3, I should have clarified by saying "exercise the ability correctly". . . . . As I re-read it, It is true that people with "malformed' reasoning are still able to reason, Just their reasoning is malformed.

So then, Based on your answer to number 4, Would agree then that the Human Mind, Should only be used to determine morality if it is properly formed? Because, After all, A mind (ability to reason) that is not formed properly could in fact call something "good" that may actually be "bad", And vice versa?

Or put another way, Would you agree that because the human mind (ability to reason) is prone to error and bias, It should not be used as a source of morality-- in other words, I (you) should not use "what I (you) think is good" to determine what is good, Because after all, What I (you) think is good may actually be bad (remember, The mind is prone to error)? This is a akin to an explorer setting sail, Not using a map or the stars or anything like that, Simply using what he thinks in his mind is the direction for "North? "
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
1. Yes
2 yes, The bible
3 no
4 yes
the long answers will take time I do not have now
Posted by GuitarSlinger 3 years ago
GuitarSlinger
@missmedic a few more questions, If I may:

1) So you are basically saying humans use their ability to reason and use logic coupled with this "innate" sense of right and wrong to determine the morality of an action?
2) Are you able to prove that humans have this innate knowledge of right and wrong? If so, How?
3) Would you agree that in order to exercise this ability to reason and use logic, One's ability to reason must first be formed properly?
4) Would you agree that the human mind can be biased, Prone to error in judgement, And thus their reasoning ability be also prone to error?
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
This is from my argument with flakypie. . .
Humans and other mammals evolved with an innate knowledge of right and wrong, Ie. Caring for their young, Not killing their own kind, Respecting the person and property (territory, Shelter, And food) of others of their own kind. Humans have developed sophisticated laws about these things, Many of them enshrined in religion. With the separation of state and religion, It became evident that morality exists outside religion. That is because we evolved that way. It"s a survival mechanism of social groups. Human communities share most morals no matter what religion they are, Thus making god unnecessary.
What does a Christian use to decipher the morality of the bible if not reason?
Posted by GuitarSlinger 3 years ago
GuitarSlinger
@missmedic Thank you. What I believe you are saying is you are using reason and logic to determine if something is moral or not, Correct? In short, You think about it and make a determination if it's moral or not? However, You are not really answering the question as to how you come to a determination if something is moral or not.

I would argue everyone uses reason and logic to determine if something is moral (good) or not. What is questionable or debatable is whether or not they are using sound reasoning/logic, Of if their reason or logic is faulty.

So how do you use your reasoning/logic to determine the morality of an action?
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
Reason is the method of thinking in an organized, Clear way to achieve knowledge and understanding. Understanding and knowledge is the criteria for evaluating the use of reason. Reasoned logic and evidence are the tools that help us discern what's true and false and without which one can't even formulate a valid argument. An objective morality, Is based on the facts of reality.
So if not reason, What then?
Posted by GuitarSlinger 3 years ago
GuitarSlinger
@missmedic5 Explain please. What do you mean by reason? And how do you use reason to determine whether an action is moral or not?
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
reason
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