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god knowingly hates children

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/14/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 674 times Debate No: 103538
Debate Rounds (4)
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Yes, this is is sick. But it comes from a sick, evil hateful demented diseased god who clearly hates children. god knowingly creates children to be raped, beaten and tortured at the hands of their abusers... sometimes for decades. An example is "daddy" is sticking in his you know what inside of his daughter age 5 while punching her in the face twice per week for 15 years. To knowingly create children to suffer is 100% pure evil and hate at its finest. You can not get more evil than that with all the hate if you wanted to. Please DO NOT bring in the "Free Will" argument either because children DO NOT have the "Free Will" to escape from these monsters who commit these horrific acts. And god creates these children to suffer as well as these monsters to commit their unspeakable crimes to begin with. god must also love it, otherwise he would create these horrific events. Please DO NOT invent the excuse that "its not god's fault". Well yeah it is. Otherwise, god is NOT in control of everything, nor is he all knowing nor is he all powerful. Nor is god omnipotent. Nor does god care enough to not create these horrific acts. And the worst of the absolute worst is god is giving a greater value, a greater meaning to these monsters to commit these horrific acts while these children suffer at the hands of these savages who have no free will to SCREAM and get away from daddy. God IS hate and evil. Pure and simple. So invent better excuses please. Sure, call me that I “hate” when it was just proven that YOUR god hates and nothing but. AND GOD MUST HAVE GIVEN THAT HATE TO ME AND ALL OF MANKIND. And yes, absolutely 100% that includes YOU by gum!!!!!!! Wow. What a loving god huh? Pathetic, but typical smug christian ideal that doesn't work - ever - excuse on your part.

In other words, god truly hates children which is a truly "duh" situation. The bible proves this time and time again. Also notice how children do not get to say one single sentence in the bible? Not one. Its like having your mouth glued shut for your entire childhood. That's the worst form of child abuse there is - to be neglected and ignored. And the bible does it so well. Sure god and jesus have stated that they love children or whatever, but that's not the same thing. Not by a longshot. How would you like it if someone spoke for you for your entire childhood and you could not say a single word on your behalf? Well, you'd naturally hate it. Also the bible is surely incomplete because there are no voices of children, there are no children talking or singing, or voices of them playing,when it is most assuredly required. How would you like it if you as an adult, who worked so hard for your children, as well you should, and they should always be the center of your life, were to find out that they were left out of your life? Well, once again you'd naturally hate it. And that's exactly what the bible and god has done in leaving children completely out of "their" most supposed sacred book of history that is supposed to engulf everything that was known within their supposed surroundings up until that special moment in time, and yet it completely ignores and neglects children. Well good job for the men who wrote the bible. Not---toooo---bright.

Next round will include verses of god hating children.



I'm very thrilled to be having this debate with you. At first I wasn't entirely sure if you were a troll or not based upon your font and grammar choices, but I eventually came to the conclusion that I would rather debate 9 trolls and 1 legitimate seeker, than play it safe and skip all 10, and thus the legitimate seeker.

I will begin my defense by answering some of the points that you presented, and I will conclude with some points of my own.

"god knowingly creates children to be raped, beaten and tortured at the hands of their abusers... sometimes for decades. An example is..."
Well who creates children? As far as I know, the man and woman who came together and bore a child were the ones who created these children with unfortunate circumstances. The only individuals we have record of God directly bringing into existence, to my knowledge, is Adam Eve and Christ Jesus who was his son.

"Please DO NOT bring in the "Free Will" argument either because children DO NOT have the "Free Will" to escape from these monsters who commit these horrific acts"
I find that the "Free Will" argument is perfectly legitimate here. Although it is not the only possible answer, I don't find it to be flawed. By nature of Free Will, individuals can do what they want. If what an individual wants entails hurting those who are weaker than them, how is that suddenly no longer free will? A Child may be blocked of options in these circumstances, but that doesn't mean the state of free will isn't there - there just aren't any options remaining for said child to be chosing.

"Please DO NOT invent the excuse that "its not god's fault". Well yeah it is. Otherwise, god is NOT in control of everything, nor is he all knowing nor is he all powerful. Nor is god omnipotent. Nor does god care enough to not create these horrific acts"
Something you need to understand is that we live in a broken world. God gave man the free will to choose in the beginning, and man (as recorded in Genesis) chose to sin. As a result, our world was cursed. Just as darkness is simply the absence of light, so is evil the absence of good. If man chose to reject God in their free will, he will honor that request of theirs. Therefore, the evil suffered by children around us is simply God telling us "yep, alright...if you don't want me see how things work without me."

Next you may be thinking 'So God puts free will above the value of children?' Well God puts free will above the value of everyone. There are rare circumstances where God will intervene simply because he wants to, (and he has the full right to do so since he made everything) such as in the case of Noah's Flood, the Birth of Christ etc. You have to understand the natue of love though. If I made a robotic wife, who had a button on her that said "Kiss Button," and every time I press that button my wife kisses me, is that kiss an expression of love? Well no, it's not. In the same way, if God made us without free will, is our love towards him genuine? Well no, it wouldn't be. Therefore, for God us to truely love God upon our own will, God gave us our own will to do so with. This will can be used to honor God or not; God doesn't decide that.

God is in control of everything, he simply gives us control over our own lives. God is all powerful, he is simply waiting for his bride (the church) to be ready before he executes his power over the world. He has already came as Christ Jesus and saved us - We're simply waiting for him to come again. (2 Peter 3:9 - see bottom) There is no evidence that God doesn't have all the power and therefore is not omnipotent as you proclaim. I presume you mean by your last line here that God doesn't care to prevent these horrific acts. Again, see 2 Peter 3:9. God is being patient with us, desiring for us to turn to him, who is greater than the suffering of this world.

"And the worst of the absolute worst is god is giving a greater value, a greater meaning to these monsters to commit these horrific acts while these children suffer at the hands of these savages who have no free will to SCREAM and get away from daddy."
The same monsters that abuse these kids were once kids themselves. Everyone was at one point in this position. Some were simply more fortunate, in regard to the people around them, than others. This goes back to my point on free will.

"AND GOD MUST HAVE GIVEN THAT HATE TO ME AND ALL OF MANKIND. And yes, absolutely 100% that includes YOU by gum!!!!!!!"
Please read Genesis 3. There is an account of mans source of evil and hate. It did not come from God, but from the devil and man.

"Also notice how children do not get to say one single sentence in the bible?"
While Children never spoke in the Bible, that does not mean that they were never referenced or even recorded. The Bible tells about children younger than 11 years old rising to the heights of being a king! The Bible records that Jesus was himself a child at one point. The Bible speaks about Children many, many times. Did you know that Enoch never had any recorded dialogue in the Bible? Enoch was one of the two men who God took into heaven, because they were so righteous that they shouldn't have to face a physical death. Does that mean God hates Enoch? That sounds like a contradiction. Let's be honest here...Children are not philosophers, they are not lawyers, they are not educated, (at least fully) they are not teachers, or anything of the like. When was the last time you've seen an 8 year old lawyer? Does that mean the government hates children? No, the govenment depends on children to expand it's population. It means a child cannot fulfil the role of a lawyer due to physical and mental limitations.

"How would you like it if someone spoke for you for your entire childhood and you could not say a single word on your behalf? Well, you'd naturally hate it."
Beleive it or not, people DO speak for people their entire childhood. There is a reason children cannot drive, or drink alcohal, or concent to sex. Children are mentally insufficient to make these decisions. Therefore, why would I expect as a child to say things on my own behalf? I can't even say where my dick is allowed to go on my own behalf! Did I hate it? No, because I understood I was a child who did not have years of experience in life like those older than me.

"worst form of child abuse there is - to be neglected and ignored."
The Bible doesn't neglect or ignore children. Regardless, this is possibly one of the stupidest statements I've ever heard. You're essentially saying that a book not containing any dialogue of children is worse than the example you shared above of a father raping and beating his daughter for years. I don't even know what to say to that.

"Sure god and jesus have stated that they love children or whatever, but that's not the same thing. Not by a longshot."
Mark 10:13-16 - People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.

Psalm 127:3-5 - Children are a heritage from the Lord, offspring a reward from him. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are children born in one’s youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their opponents in court.

Proverbs 13:22 - A good person leaves an inheritance for their children’s children, but a sinner’s wealth is stored up for the righteous.

Matthew 18:10 - “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven."

Luke 9:46-47 - An argument started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest. Jesus, knowing their thoughts, took a little child and had him stand beside him. Then he said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For it is the one who is least among you all who is the greatest.”

John 16:21 - A woman giving birth to a child has pain because her time has come; but when her baby is born she forgets the anguish because of her joy that a child is born into the world.

Jesus held children, and welcomed them to him. The Bible says the birth of a child is a joy to the world! The bible says not to hate little ones, it says that anyone who welcomes a child also welcomes God, it says that a good person looks out for children, and among many other things it says Children are a heritage from God! I don't know about you, but I would much rather hear that said of me than listen to a dialogue of a choir boy singing a song, or a description of a scene of kids playing. Did you know we can see kids play, sing and talk today? We don't need the word of God to record these things for us to know they happen and to appreciate their happening. To say that these things are not the same as describing a kid sing or play is simply ludicrous!

"Next round will include verses of god hating children."
I expect to see a plethora of verses taken out of context or played up to be more than they are. God does not hate children, nor does the Bibe indicate as much. I do, despite this, look forward to seeing this response.

In Conclusion, the Bible does not hate children, nor does the God it proclaims. In fact, it says children are blessed, it says to them is the kingdom of God. What greater honor is there than to hear these words spoken of you? I don't recall every receiving such encouragment from any other source growing up, than in the Bible.

2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."

Debate Round No. 1


Well I’m not thrilled to be debating with you because god is truly a diseased darling little maggot in which nobody can even prove exists in the first place who truly hates children and the bible proves this all too well.

According to your god, your god creates everybody and therefore he creates all children. Oh and btw, jesus christ is a false prophet, so let’s dispense right away with that garbage trash pile right away.

OK you really want to bring in The Free Will argument? Let’s. Its an argument is you believe in your god that you cannot win.
You show me or anyone where in the bible, anywhere that YOUR god says something to the effect of "I the LORD thy god grants man free will." The fact of the matter is, is that it doesn't exist. Not anywhere. So in fact your god does NOT grant you Free Will of any kind. Period. But in truth, I hope you find it because then that would mean that YOUR bible contradicts itself YET AGAIN for the thousandth time or so, because there so many verses that prove that god does not, by any means, grant free will.
Another example in fact god shuts you down with Free Will all over his bible. A perfect example of that is one of the 10 commandments... Threatening people with death is taking Free Will away.
Thankfully pretty much no one follows the justice followed by your ridiculous mayhem god.
The 10 commandments are a perfect example. If those were to be upheld, at least 80% of this population would not be in existence or better. But that is what is estimated of those who claim that they are christians who do not read their bible except for once every other week. And that’s only a couple of verses, if that.
* Taking thy lord thy god’s name is vein requires being stoned to death (blasphemy).
* Working on the sabbath also requires to be put to death.
* Adultery requires to be put to death
* Honoring your parents/ dishonoring cursing at you parents requires you as the child to be put to death. WHAT? The others listed above are what they are. But honor thy mother and father. What? Not if they rape, beat and torture me. Not if they are lousy parents and they do not guide me in my journey through life in growing up. Not if they abuse me such as neglect and for me to be ignored which is the worst form of abuse there is which is what your god did to nearly 100% of those who have EVER walked the earth. Your god HATES children.

Let's look at it from god's point of view because god himself does NOT have free will IF he knows his future. How can he if he is omnipotent because he will have already known his choices that have been chosen? That is NOT Free Will. So if YOUR god does not have Free Will and the ability to choose, most definitely man does NOT have Free Will and the ability to choose. Got it? It will only lead you---right---back---here---this---moment------in---time.

There's free will in hate? That's makes no sense whatsoever if this god guy is supposed to be loving, caring and kind. Wow what a true contradiction if there ever was one. god and the bible are riddled with thousands of contradictions which proves 0 intelligence. If this god guy of yours is omnipotent and cares, with kindness, and love in which there's no way he can because this god guy can---easily---take---the---evil---and---hate---out---of---Free Will such as the brutal rape, beating and torturing of a 6 year old girl as an example. But no, he doesn't. He leaves it in. Just like a good puke. Thus that absolutely proves that this god of your IS EVIL(and he freely admits it several times is HIS bible. Would you like the verses?) AND IS BASED ON HATE as he truly hates children and knowingly creates children to suffer. WHAT? What kind of supreme deity does this? And he freely admits it. So due to what you said in your extended rant, I do not know if there will be enough space for me to get into YOUR god’s verses of him hating children in this round.
Now that absolutely 100% proves you have no free will, none, IF you believe in your god. Oh there’s plenty more on Free Will.
But you would find the free will argument perfectly legitimate, that’s because you believe that the rape, torturing and annihilation of a little girl is perfectly OK when YOUR god can easily take something, the evil and hate out of free will. So YOU and YOUR god are placing a greater VALUE, a greater PROFIT on those who commit crimes against children as mentioned in the previous round. YOU and YOUR GOD are deranged, psychotic, and truly incurable. That’s what the christian religion is all about.
Oh and I get it also while we are on the subject of Free W ill, YOUR god and YOU also gave Free Will to Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Hong Xiuquan, Stalin, all rapists, all serial killers, all torturers, all sodomizers, all pedophiles, etc etc etc. There is no room on this planet for your god and people like you who should be hospitalized.

We live in a broken world because YOUR god created it that way. Now what part of that don’t you understand? He could have chosen an era of peace, love, care for each other, kindness, love. But no. He chose hate, disdain, despair, war, gereed, violence, bloodshed, etc etc etc because as freely admitted he has anger, wrath, vengeance, rage, fury, jealousy in which no true god ---ever--- would.
Then you mention sin. Oh really? Um no. Its so clear that you have no idea as to what you are squawking about…Because of the “yes” and “no” in your bible, sin cancels each other out and it---does--not---exist. Now I since I am smart, intelligent and educated enough to not believe in your coughed upped sickened diseased destructive god who hates children, I choose not to care about sin and know it does not exist and therefore can live a life of happiness. And so can you. Does every man sin? Yes. There is no man who does not sin (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810) No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God. Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God.. (I John 5:1). We should be called children of God; and so we are (I John 3: 1). He who loves is born of God (I John 4:7). No one born of God commits sin; for Gods nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God (I John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (I John 1:8)

“There are rare circumstances where God will intervene simply because he wants to,” Yeah like when he wants to commit a genocide. “ (and he has the full right to do so since he made everything) such as in the case of Noah's Flood,” Well Noah’s flood never happened. That’s been scientifically proven. Please do some research rather than inventing non existent excuses that don’t exist. It might be a little bit nice. K snookums? I’m getting a little bit tired of your far far far below the belt lack of facts in which you know nothing about. In other words, please come up with some HARD EVIDENCE that is conclusive.

Whaoah there boy.I MOST CERTAINLY DO UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF LOVE.christ, boy, and now you are p**sing me off youngun, who pretends that he knows something about nothing and pretends to swallow it, you ARE ONLY 16. THERE’S NO WAY YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT LOVE. And DO NOT try to pretend that you do. I am going to completely ignore that paragraph.

“God is in control of everything,...” Oh no he’s not. He’s not in control of me. He’s not in control of MY FREE WILL nor billions of others. He's NOT in control of this planet now is he? DUH. I have free will because I do not believe in him. You do not have free will because you believe in him. I will ignore that paragraph as well.

“The same monsters…” Has nothing whatsoever to do with anything except you trying to invent more uaplied excuses.

Really? According to what imbecile? You? How would you know? What grade of King Vitamin C deficiency does genesis 3 mention ANYTHING about the “devil”? Once again, invent better excuses and flat out lie to someone else. K snookums?

"Also notice how children do not get to say one single sentence in the bible?" OK so here it is in a nutshell since a punk kid like you thinks you are so smart and well edumacated in which you are clearly not… YOU are 16 and thus a child. So according to YOU, your entire debate with me is absolutely meaningless and worthless. Your entire life thus far according to you is insignificant and unimportant and absolutely no one should pay any attention to you for any reason whatsoever because you have your mouth taped shut and you have nothing to say. No songs to sing. No voice to be heard. Period. That’s the worst form of child abuse there is to be neglected and ignored. But to you, that’s perfectly fine. So absolutely not do you in any way know or understand what “love” is. See you don’t know anything AT ALL about child abuse and it shows. People would rather be beaten and raped, than to be stuffed in a closet with no attention than to be neglected and ignored.

“Beleive it or not, people DO speak for people their entire childhood.” No they don’t. I have a voice of my own. It only true if you are an invalid and glued to a chair and are autistic or something like that, but then again your are inventing excuses.

"Sure god and jesus have stated that they love children or whatever, but that's not the same thing. Not by a longshot." All of those verses you mentioned are NOT THE SAME THING. LEARN TO READ

"Next round will include verses of god hating children." As previously stated in this round was not enough space to do as such because all there was room for was to respond to your ridiculous pessimistic rant. So if you want your god spouting at the maw in which he is known for because of his superior ego complex and his known hatred for children, then you gotta tighten it up so I don’t have to respond to your ridiculous snot meat bile that’s really nothing but excuses to cover up for your lice ridden parasitic whore god.



In the very first statement, my opponent has shown that he:
1) has no interest in evaluating his own opinion, but is only interested in arguing for his own case.
2) has no qualms with relying upon ad hominem attacks against persons with whom he disagrees.
3) has no problems with making baseless claims, and forming very bold implications.

According to your god, your god creates everybody and therefore he creates all children.
In Genesis 1:18, and Genesis 35:11 God says to be fruitful and multiply. Implying the individual was the one doing the multiplication. Genesis 1:22-24 says God wanted the animals (and possibly man) to reproduce their own kinds. Deuteronomy 32:4 implies that God has no part in the creation of birth defects. Jeremiah 31:34 says that God will remove the curses of physical defects and situations in the future, which means he is not the one designing them. The consumation of this all is found in Revelation 21:4 when God says he will create a situation free from the willful tainting of man so that we may worship him without such burdens. To say God directly creates everybody and all of their situations is simply unbiblical.

Oh and btw, jesus christ is a false prophet, so let’s dispense right away with that garbage trash pile right away.
Citation needed? I can make claims without evidence too!

You show me or anyone where in the bible, anywhere that YOUR god says something to the effect of "I the LORD thy god grants man free will."
How about Ecclesiasties 9:10 when we're told we do what we do with our own power? Or what about Proverbs 21:5 and Deuteronomy 30:19-20 when we're told the nature of our plans determines our future? What about Matthew 22:37 when we're told we have to choose to love God? Galations 5:13 says we're free, John 7:17 implies we make our choices, Romans 13:2 says we can choose to rebel, and Romans 10:9-10 say that we choose our salvation. Those are just a few of the many, many examples of our free will in Scripture. I want to pay special attention to Genesis 2-3 though, as God created man. Notice a few details.
1) In his image - with a soul, personality, emotions, and the will to choose.
2) We are called to have dominion over the earth...that sounds pretty freeing to me.
3) We were free to choose to rebel against God and sin - which man did.

because there so many verses that prove that god does not, by any means, grant free will.
There's a lot of debate between Calvinism and Arminianism (A God-controlled world, or a man-controlled world) and there's evidence for both in the Bible. That does not make it a contradiction though, it simply means it's not black and white. (We're 100% free or 100% mind-controlled by God) The Bible clearly indicated the truth of free will is somewhere in the middle of these extremes, and where exactly that is is subject to debate. We do know, however, that free will, regardless of how big or small it is, plays a large role in our lives according to scripture and especially the first few chapters of Genesis.

A perfect example of that is one of the 10 commandments... Threatening people with death is taking Free Will away.
It's always easy for me to spot someone who doesn't know their Bible based upon their arguments. I know you said the ten commandments, but I'll address all of Moses' laws together since they're sorta one in the same...They're not for us. Moses was giving the law of God to the Isrealites, God's chosen people. The New Testament says Salvation is soley by faith, not by works. Keeping a law is a part of works. We live in the age of Christ's ressurection, or the age of Grace. Going back to the isrealites, these are the people that God has revealed himself to - they saw more of God than any of us ever will in this life.

Read Luke 12:48

To whom much is given much is requird. To those who saw God part the seas, free them from bondage, make food rain from the sky, make water come from a rock, lead the people by fire and smoke etc. so will those people be expected to live up to a higher standard. This was God's chosen nation.

What kind of nation would God have if even his 'special forces' guys didn't do a good job following his own rules? As an evolutionist I'm sure you're familiar with natural selection. This was intelligent selection. Those who weren't willing to make the cut wouldn't be put up with. Isn't God, the creator of those people, in a position to demand that from his own creation?

But that is what is estimated of those who claim that they are christians who do not read their bible except for once every other week.
To be honest, if you're reading your bible once every other week and this whole shindig is so casual to anyone, their salvation is questionable at best. The Bible says you will know a christian by their passion and their fruits. This type of lazy or casual or lukewarm christianity isn't true christianity.

Read Revelation 3:15-16.

Ouch - that's a convicting verse.

Honoring your parents/ dishonoring cursing at you parents requires you as the child to be put to death.
The family structure is one of the most important things in God's creation to both him and us. It reflects our relationship to Christ as his bride and church among other things. This was a commandment to protect that in God's nation. Do you think that children who openly rebel against their parents should be tolerated? That's insubordination to those that both birthed you and provide everything for you...Why should that be tolerated?

But honor thy mother and father. What? Not if they rape, beat and torture me.
Please show me the passage in the Bible where it says "There is no exceptions to any law made by the Lord your God." or where it says "Honor your father and mother as they rape you." Oh you can't? Possibly because such a verse doesn't exist, at least when used in proper context. There we exceptions to laws in the Bible such as when God allowed divorce in the case of abuse. This is a general rule, and to get mad at it for not addressing every single possibility is both foolish, and an argument of silence.

Did you know the American Consitution says we can bear arms in America? What you just did here is like me saying "America has guns, and guns have the power to kill, therefore America supports the killing of people, and hates them too!" Wow, that's a pretty stupid conclusion isn't it?

Not if they abuse me such as neglect and for me to be ignored which is the worst form of abuse there is which is what your god did to nearly 100% of those who haveEVER walked the earth.
You're still going on about this 'worst form of abuse' thing? Tell you what, growing up I was both ignored by some close to me (Including a parental figure) and raped as a child. I can tell you quite honestly that the former doesn't even compare to the latter. So please, for the sake of whatever dignity you still have, please stop pretending like neglect is the worst thing in the world. Anyways, you still can't show me how the Bible neglects children. I've presented plenty of evidence to the contrary, but you can't defend the point apparently.

How can he if he is omnipotent because he will have already known his choices that have been chosen?
You're claiming here that you know how time works between God and us. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created..." God was there before the creation of time, so why should we assume he's bound to it? I feel as though you're playing with things too complex for us to understand with how little we know. Besides, even if God knows what he will do, that doesn't change the fact that he was the one to make the decision - he just knows what he's going to do. That's like saying a High Schooler who knows what college he wants to go to when he graduates no longer has free will because he already knows what his future decision is going to be. That doesn't make sense.

(From now on I'll stop quoting your points for the sake of character count.)

How is hate the absence of free will? Wouldn't it no longer be free will if our options were limited?

Please show me any contradiction in the Bible. Claiming something there is much easier than proving it.

Where does God say he is evil?

You've yet to prove God hates children as you claim he does. Please stop making empty claims.

In regard to God knowingly making children to suffer see my beginning points.

Please explain to me how free will is free if you take evil out of it. Isn't evil a choice?

Later on you resort to ad hominom attacks. This is classy indeed.

God gave free will to hitler and all those people...yeah...but he also gave free will to Mother Teresa. Should he have just made a trillion Mother Teresa's who had no choice but to be good? Nice free will there.

Actually, he did make an era of peace. Read Genesis. Eden was lit. Man chose to turn from God.

Sin doesn't exist? I mean I don't really understand your justification for that claim because you don't spell check and it just doesn't make sense. How does sin cancel itself out? Your description of the Child of God clearly shows your lack of understanding of Soteriology. There is the salvation of the body soul and spirit. Three different events with different results.

Noah's Flood never happened? Bold claim. I can make baseless claims and say they're scientifically proven too. I might have gotten into some of the evidence and specifics, but there is a strict word count, so my points are pretty thin. If you want to debate Noah's Flood though, I'd gladly have a follow-up debate. We are assuming the validity of the Bible here though, so we also have to assume what it says about Noah's Flood.

Later on you make an argument of age fallacy, and thus ignore an entire point of my argument. Classy. You couldn't possibly know the nature of my love life or the possible lacktherof, so please do not pretend to.

God has the power to give and take away. Free Will is a gift but it is ultimately subject to him.

I do not have space left to go on, which is unfortunate because I found the remainder of your text to be the worst
Debate Round No. 2


1. No I’m not interested in evaluating YOUR opinion because you have none when it comes to your god and his hating children. But let’s see if you’ve left me any room for me to post your god’s hatred of children as he barks his hatred of them in this round?

2. When you show absolutely no intelligence nor any edumacation as most of my opponents don’t and yet they pretend they do and they thus invent excuses for in which they have absolutely no knowledge upon, they absolutely 100% they deserve to be insulted, degraded and dehumanized. You will learn that should you ever get to college. Now if you do that to your friends and loved ones, POOF, you will soon have no friends and loved ones. If you do that to your teachers, POOF, instant F and they will not even think twice. So why should I or anyone deal with that type utter crap when its so utterly so cheap and easily see through? I won’t. You need to provide actual evidence rather than gullibility because if you do, then you will get the septic tank of lard headed your way and rightly so. That’s because I can think, reason, rationalize, use common sense, and use logic whereas god, religion and the bible requires none.

3. You are 16 years old and you honestly believe I make baseless claims? So since you were stupid enough to make such a claim, if I see that with a strike 5 referendum, which is more than enough, and I am sure that I will, I shall end this debate because I am a lot smarter, a lot more edumacated and a lot more intelligent than you. I also know a lot more about god, the bible and religion that a self righteous prick punk sweaty piece of rear end wipe maggoty kid like you ---ever--- will. After all, you made such a HUGE glaring error within your round 1 and I shouldn’t even be paying attention to your cabbage batbrain that cannot be undone.

According to your god, your god creates everybody and therefore he creates all children.
Isaiah 43:7 “Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.” So who really cares what you printed. As always, its meaningless. Strike 1.

You show me or anyone where in the bible, anywhere that YOUR god says something to the effect of "I the LORD thy god grants man free will." I’m not going to look up this verses you presented me with. I have better things to do. If you wish to present them to me, fine, I will look them over. But I 100% guarantee and know that they in no way state "I the LORD thy god grants man free will.". So its your loss. YOU HAVE NO FREE WILL IF you are stupid and completely gullible enough to believe in YOUR god.

I’m going to ignore the 10 commandments thing. I gave you an EXAMPLE of YOUR god threatening people with death. Threatening people with death IS taking free will away. . “It's always easy for me to spot someone who doesn't know their Bible…” Stop right there… strike 2.

Read Luke 12:48 Nope. You present me with the verse.

“To whom much is given much is requird. To those who saw God part the seas,” Well that’s a miracle in which did---not---happen. You prove that it did. Hey you can’t even prove that your god exists. Strike 2. Strange isn’t it that god and his miracles have grinded to a screeching halt over the past 400 years and NONE have happened? That’s because 1. god does not exist. 2. god is a fake and a fraud and cannot perform miracles as the bible states. 3. The bible is a storybook and nothing more. 4. god has died. 5. Nobody should believe in god and the bible because it flat out lies. 6. God and the bible especially appeals to those that are searching for something that they do not have within themselves such as self esteem, and they are especially young or old and require an incredible amount of gullibility. 7. There’s nothing tangible about god. 8. So why believe in god AT ALL? 9. Especially why believe in god without any type of proof. 10. Faith and the bible are NOT proof.

You’re an evolutionists? B.S. Try lying to someone else. Strike 3. Sheesh.

“But that is what is estimated of those who claim that they are christians who do not read their bible except for once every other week.” Oh gosh golly gee gosh darned it all why---don’t---you---look---it---up---snookums?

Don’t even come up with the crap that you did. Do you believe that you should be put to death for cursing at your parents? Y____? N____? Actually that’s 5, count em 5 verses where YOUR god shows his clear hatred toward children in YOUR fricken bible. Um absolutely NOT. If my parents were to abuse, rape, beat, torture me then absolutely for whatever reason and the very least I certainly do have the right to curse at them. And I will, and so will everybody on this planet rise up against their parents if they can.

“"...There is no exceptions to any law made by the Lord your God."” So then you do not take your bible literally. Then that means that you are NOT in any way a true christian. So how on earth am I or anyone supposed to know what words OF YOUR GOD’S YOU take seriously and which one’s you don’t? So how on earth can you possibly pass on to others which of god’s laws are true and just since you knowingly break them? See, that’s the problem with devilish christians like you, you take the nice parts as being true and just, but when it comes to the gooey parts that are barked from YOUR GOD, and you 100% know that they are unjust and should have not ever been put to print nor practiced in the first place, then according to YOU, its perfectly OK for you to overlook them. Since you obviously do not and cannot possibly take the word of your god as being just and true, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU 100% KNOW ITS WRONG we---are---done.

“I have yet to find an example of a moral standard in your holy book that I find morally correct. Caller “Then if your moral standards are so superior to the living god, then convert me.” Matt “My moral standard is superior to the character, in fact my moral standards are superior to almost any character in the bible. I have no problem with that. I’ve said it many times and explained it many times before. I could maybe rattle off a list of sins.” “Matt hasn’t killed anybody. How’s about that?” Yeah. I think anybody who advocates slavery is morally inferior. I think anybody that advocates genocide and slaughter is morally inferior. I think anybody that advocates infinite punishishment for finite crimes and deeds is morally inferior. I think anybody that is omniscient and omnipotent and omnibenevolent who creates a society to knowing that people are not going to be able to live up to his standards spends an eternity punishing them or spends many thousands of years punishing them trying to correct his mistakes over and over again he creates Adam and Eve they fail he banishes them out of the garden then there’s the tower of babel then there’s the flood there’s well actually there’s the flood then the tower of babel, sorry I got that backwards, its failure after failure after failure after failure after failure and then finally it culminates. And the only loophole that the creator of all the laws of the universe can come up with, why didn’t he just forgive everybody or change the laws? But instead he just comes up with a loophole where he comes down bodily and sacrifices himself to himself to act for a rule that he created? Its absurd. Its laughably absurd. And its immoral.” Matt Dillahunty I 100% agree. And I totally agree with Matt that my moral standards are most definitely 100% superior to almost ANY character in the bible.

"I once had a christian ask me “If you don’t believe in in punishment in the afterlife, what do you do with the child rapist?” I said you imprison them. You lock them up. It gives us all the more motivation to solve the problem -here- today - because that’s the only option we have. Letting it happen and letting people suffer is the christian world view. Fixing it is a humanist secular world view because we are the only ones who can solve problems. And we - need - to do that. Once you believe ‘it happens because it happens’, why do you solve it? Quite frankly if god has a plan why do you pray? Who the f*%U#+*$”C@*:k are you to change god’s will? I mean if he’s got a plan, why do you think he’s gonna change it for you?" Phil Ferguson

Deuteronomy 2:34 “And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:”

Leviticus 26:21-22 “And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. 22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.” Rob you of your children?

Hosea 13:16 “Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”

Matthew 2:16 “Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.”

Isaiah 13:15-18 "Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. 16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. 17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. 18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.

There's plenty more on your god hating children. But am out of space and your clock has run out.


I'll start by addressing points I did not have space to in the last round.

You said before that according to me my entire debate is meaningless. I've never stated that. You've infered that from what I said. I simply said I'd much rather take my Theology from someone older than someone younger. You go on to say again that being ignored is the worst form of abuse which I can tell you is incorrect based on personal experience. So please, don't tell me I don't understand anything about child abuse.

You also say that I have no understanding of Love. Well that's an assumption. I have parents don't I? Grandparents, Friends, Family many of whom were/are married. Clearly I can observe love around me. You also have no clue as to what my relational history is, so please do not pretend like you do.

You say you have a voice of your own...Well're an adult. You never addressed my points about children today unable to consent to sex, unable to marry, unable to drive, or really do most anything without parental permission. Our government and parents speak for us when we don't have the experience to speak for ourselves.

All of those verses you mentioned are NOT THE SAME THING. LEARN TO READ
They're not the same? That's your opinion. I also happen to agree - What Jesus says is way more important than having a kid sing a song.

Now in regard to the current round.

I have no opinion w9hen it comes to my God and his hating children? What then are we debating? I'm pretty sure I have an opinion that I'm using to argue. I'm totally ready to accept your POW if you could present any evidence or merit for it.

You then go on to say that I'll learn should I ever go to college. Well this is you making more assumptions about me. It's absolutely none of your business, but I'll inform you that I have been, and am currently involved/enrolled.

I've done exactly what I do here around my friends and loved ones, not that this is relevant to the debate, and I find myself lacking in neither. I do what I've done here with my teachers and that's what has gotten me involved in college at the age of 16. So all of your predictions about me are wrong.

I have presented cases and thoughts that you have effectively ignored. You claim they're just too stupid to respond to, but then you go on to speak about needing evidence for your claims. Interesting.

Yes I'm 16, and yes I believe you make baseless claims. Why are those two related now? Are these five strikes strikes by your own opinion? Because none of them, as I've shown below, are valid. Also, who's the one insulting kids simply because they're kids now? Also, you've yet to prove you know more about anything, as you're too busy coming up with ad hom attacks.

According to you, I said that I have nothing to listen to in Round 1. Well let's look at this. What do you think a kid is? Because I wouldn't say I classify as a kid anymore, and if I do then the Bible records kids teaching and talking. Matthew 19:16-22 talks about a youth. 1 Timothy 4:12 talks about a young teacher. Jeremiah 1 says that a youth shouldn't say 'I'm too young.' So if I count as a kid to you, then the Bible records youths being rulers, teachers and leaders. Either you're wrong on this point or you've admitted you're wrong on this entire debate.

Your quote from Isaiah is intriguing, but not unexpected. There's always been debate as to what role God plays in the creation of a child. I mentioned this before, but I don't think it can be so black and white. According to our model of hermeneutics, we interpret scripture with scripture. So when you take a verse like Isaiah 43:7 and put it next to the several verses I mentioned, you see that this issue isn't so simply afterall, and why should it be? How could we, finite man, fully understand the workings of infinite God? To say this is strike one is a very bold statement, overexaggerating how much (or in reality how little) you or I actually know.

"I'm not going to look up this verses you presented..."
Here my opponent has ignored evidence I've presented to him, and then goes on to claim he's right. I encourage any spectator to take note of this.

Threatening people with death is taking free will away? So America isn't free then, because we have laws. In fact no country has any freedom or free will at all because there are laws punishable by prison and in some cases death. Well no, America is constantly refered to as the land of the free. Laws carry punishments, and this does not mean that there is no free will. Regardless, everyone still has the will to choose not to follow these laws. Just because there's a consequence doesn't mean that the option isn't available. Also, please not how my opponent says he will again ignore my arguments.

Due to text limitations, there is no space for me to print out entire verses, nor should it be expected of me. The verses I've cited are evidence, or a citation, for the Bible based facts I'm presenting. If you won't check my sources that's fine, but then you have no basis to claim what I say isn't backed by said verse.

Proving miracles and stories happened is a whole other debate. We are arguing whether or not God hates children though. For God to hate, we have to presuppose, for the purposes of this debate, that God exists. If God exists we should also probably trust what he told us as accurate. Therefore, for the purposes of this debate the miracles and historical narrative in the Bible must be taken as literal.

I can't prove my God exists, but there's evidence. You also can't prove gravity exists. That doesn't mean gravity doesn't exist - there's good evidence for gravity - it's a good theory. This, and thus your 'strike 2' is irrelevant to the debate.

Have God's miracles grinded to a halt? Why just over the past 400 years? I for one have never been everywhere in the world at all times, such as in African and South American tribes, to observe such miracles. The miracles in the Bible are also extremely rare. There are only a couple hundred performed over the 4,000 years Scripture addressed, and the majority of them occur within the 3 years of Christ's ministry. Our debate is not on whether or not God exists though. For him to hate he must exist, and thus he is presupposed for this debate. Please do not change the subject.

I never claimed to be an evolutionist. I said you were. Since you brought me up I do, however, understand the theory of evolution, and believe in parts of it. Having bred dogs growing up, I know what it looks like to see microevolutionary changes in animals. This is in no way a strike 3.

I do not believe I should be put to death for cursing at my parents. Why should I? I'd rather not die, but that's a conflict of interest between my will and the maturity God expects from me. This isn't a hatred for children. The same type of expectation is held for all of the Isrealites. If you read the laws presented, there are only a couple expectations for children in comparison to the several if not hundreds of laws for God's people as a whole.

I take all of the words of my God seriously. If I were to say that bread is the best food in the world and I think everyone should eat it, am I saying gluten free people need to eat my bread too? Well not really, I simply haven't addressed gluten free people because they're a minority. God did not address every single circumstance here, because there is a primary audience and a minority audience. Your 'rape victims' are by far the minority. Deuteronomy 22:25-27 says rapists should be killed. Psalms 11:5-6, Romans 6:23, 1 Peter 2:9-10, the list goes on. God has in other areas made punishments for 'abuse, rape, beating, torture' as you put it. You're saying that if a man has a child these rules simply don't apply, and they're free to rape abuse and torture as they please. Well that's simply illogical and not scriptural.

It is not okay to overlook passages we don't like. We need to take them in context of their surroundings and try to understand what they mean. I am in no way overlooking passages, I'm simply not adding my own opinions onto it all, which you seem to be doing. That's another thing - I feel like your agenda and demand to be right is blinding your interpretation of the evidence.

Further on you've changed gears from God and hating children to God and his existence, and then to things such as prayer. This was never part of the debate, so please stop bringing it in. I would gladly have a follow-up debate on the topic(s) if you'd like though.

I'll go through your verses in order.

1- This verse from Deut says they killed everyone. The Men Women and Children. They left none alive. Emphasis on none. God was not targetting Children, but should he pretend they don't exist?

2- Your Leviticus verse says God will 'rob you of your children.' Psalms 127:3 - Children are a gift from God. This isn't a hatred towards children so much as it is towards the people he's taking them from. In fact, this statement affirms that people see children as valuable - since God taking them is apparently supposed to be a big deal. That seems to contradict your point.

3- Your verse in hosea says their women and children shall die. Again, this affirms their value as apprently there's some drastic measure being taken here. This isn't a hatred towards women and children, but towards Samaria.

4- Matthew makes a historical account of someone doing something outside of the will of God because he was terrified to lose his position as King. Please tell me how this is relevant? Children die. That's not new.

5- Isaiah says everyone shall perish. By this logic God also says he hates houses, silver, gold, men, and women in this passage. That's a big leap.

My opponent has made several statements but most of them have been empty. To say God, who made the growth process of child to adult, hates children, is to say God hates his own design. That's a bold statement which isn't really backed by much evidence. I look forward to my opponents rebuttal.
Debate Round No. 3


Lamentations 4: 9-11 "They that be slain with the sword are better than they that be slain with hunger: for these pine away, stricken through for want of the fruits of the field. 10 The hands of the pitiful women have sodden their own children: they were their meat in the destruction of the daughter of my people. 11 The LORD hath accomplished his fury; he hath poured out his fierce anger, and hath kindled a fire in Zion, and it hath devoured the foundations thereof."

Matthew 10:37 “He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.”

Judges 21:10 “And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children.”

2 Samuel 12:11-14 "Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. From [The child dies seven days later.] This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

Matthew 2:16 “Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.”

Numbers 31:17-18 “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.”
---- a different translation ----Numbers 31:17-18 "Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

Ezekiel 9:5-7 “And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. 7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.”

1 Samuel 15:3 “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling , ox and sheep, camel and a$$.”

Hosea 9:11-16 “As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception. 12 Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them! 13 Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. 14 Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. 15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. 16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.”

Exodus 12:29-30 "And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died."

Exodus 21:14 -17 "But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die. 15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. 16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. 17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.”

Psalms 137:8-9 "Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. 29 So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”

Judges 19:24-29 “Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. 25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. 26 Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light. 27 And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. 28 And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an a$$, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. 29 And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.” To put it very bluntly this poor, young lady was murdered by her mate for being raped.

Exodus 12:29 “And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.” repeat Oh I get it, so you as christians think its cool and rather polite for your grandson to be murdered for something that YOU did. Well if that’s the law of the land, then there would be nobody left alive. After all, anybody could make up anything they wanted to about anybody no matter how stupid that didn’t even apply to them. And who’s to say if it would be correct? There wouldn’t be any witnesses to protect the innocent after all.
God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?

2 Kings 2:23-24 “And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.”
You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone “bald head” is far from being worthy of death.

Leviticus 26:29 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.”

Jeremiah 11:22-23 “Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will punish them: the young men shall die by the sword; their sons and their daughters shall die by famine: 23 And there shall be no remnant of them: for I will bring evil upon the men of Anathoth, even the year of their visitation.

Jeremiah 19: 7-9 “And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth. 8 And I will make this city desolate, and an hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished and hiss because of all the plagues thereof. 9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend in the siege and straitness, wherewith their enemies, and they that seek their lives, shall straiten them.


I'll respond to each verse in order.

1- Lamentations gives us a picture of God's fierce anger and firey passion. This isn't a hatred of children but of sin, which reaps it's results. If either a woman or child goes out and murders someone, they have broken a law and are judged accordingly. The same is true here. This verse also does not say that God forced the women to eat their own children, but simply that they did.

2- Matthew is not saying that God hates children at all. By that logic, this verse would be saying God hates fathers and mothers too. That simply is untrue as God created the family structure. He is saying that he does need to come first despite this system though. Nothing about hating children here.

3- Judges tells a story of people killing enhabitants. This includes the women and children. This isn't a hatred of children, but simply the people here not playing favorites. To say this is God hating children also implies he hates men and women who are also dying. This simply isn't true since God made men and women in Genesis and called them 'very good.'

4- What is not included in the 2 Samuel passage is when David is joyful after the death, saying he knew that he would see his son again in heaven. I can see why you left that out though, it kinda gets in the way of your whole agenda. Also, if I were to ask you your thoughts on abortion, I couldn't know what you would say, but the majority of people would say that it's acceptable. You can't play this game of abortion is alright when we do it, but if God ever kills a child then he is obviously evil.

5- I already talked about this Matthew passage in the last round. This had nothing to do with God.

6- Your passage in Numbers sounds pretty bad until you realize the context. The purpose of this command was to wipe out all Midianites. If they got rid of all of the men and the women old enough to reproduce then the clan could not be revived. When he says take the women for yourselves, it is saying that the women would become part of the Isrealites. This has nothing to do with hating children and everything to do with making sure the Midianites can't reproduce.

7- If the passage in Ezekiel is evidence God hates children then he also hates old and young, maids and women, and men. This, like all of the others, is simply illogical. God wasn't playing favorites with the children, but he was by no means targetting the chidren.

8- For 1 Samuel 15:3 please see point 7.

9- Hoesa is praying in this next passage that God would withhold his blessing of children. This is actually contradictory to the point your trying to make, since for Hosea to pray for children to be withheld they must be valuable.

10- This passage from Exodus 12, again, hurts your case more than it helps. This not only recognizes the fact that God see's children as the most valuable earthly thing we have, (thus being his final and worst plague) but he also goes one step further in this story letting everyone get a way out if only they would repent and put blood on their door. God gave them a way out.

11- Exodus 21 has been discussed in previous Rounds of this debate. This is God setting up his chosen nation who a few chapters ago delivered them from Egypt. Isn't he in a position to demand some standards?

12- Your quote from Psalms was probably the most puzzling verse to me at first. Then I recalled the setting. This was also predicted in Isaiah. This is what the Babylonians had done to Jewish children before, so it a just retaliation recorded here. God has said Vengence is mine, so he is in the place to demand retribution when he deems it necessary.

13- This passage in 2 Kings is a conversation between a woman and the King. She is describing what she did to her child. Unless you can show me where God justified this, condoned this, or supported this, you have no case. This was actually rebuked by God, as he predicted this type of pagan cannibalism in Lev 26:29 and Deut 28:52-57. The way this women presented her case without emotion adds to the horror of what's going on here, but this had nothing to do with God.

14- The verse in Deuteronomy describing what to do with stubborn and rebellious children sounds perfectly logical. There is a standard set for obedience, and it is not met. This is in normal circumstances by the way. My opponent would say that a child has the right to be rebellious if his parents are raping and beating him/her. The problem with this argument is that there are other laws that address raping and beating. This is not talking about parents in those circumstances.

15- What was left out in this section from Judges, is the fact that a war resulted from the atrocities commited here. God did not condone anything here, and had his nation bring justice to the men of Benjamin who did this. But of course my opponent wouldn't include that bit, because it kind of goes against his narrative.

16- As you stated this exodus verse is a repeat. God made a way out. The children did not have to suffer because of their pharoah, they could have obeyed God and lived. Also, God did not harden Pharoahs heart until after he denied God willingly several times, so this was not a forced rejection either.

17- Your translation of 2 Kings is faulty. The original Hebrew word, Na'ar, is more accurately translated young men - As old as twenty. Regardless, these men were mocking the prophet and God and by that nature God himself. Calling someone bald head today does not carry the same cultural significance that it did back then. This was both an intentional and deep insult against both God and his prophet. It's hard for us, in our position, to fully understand what happened here. But we know that these individuals knew what they were doing. It's also important to note that this is not a full transcript of what happened, as the Bible is only summarizing.

18- This was a prediction of what would happen due to a famine around the world. This had nothing to do with God condoning it, it was simply him stating it would happen. This prophecy came to pass. 2 Kings 6:28, Jeramiah 19:9.

19- Your first verse in Jeremiah, the one in chapter 11, records God's wrath against a clan or nation. This does not mean God hates children themselves.

20- Your second verse in Jeremiah is a fulfillment of God's prophecy in Leviticus. This happened because God plagued their land and caused famine. As a result, the people began to practice pagan cannibalizm. This is not God condoning it.

As you can see, my opponent has provided 20 passages from scripture elegedly proving God hates children. I've found that the vast majority if not every single one of them has absolutely nothing to do with God hating children. I would also like to point out my opponent never addressed any of the point I brought up in round four, so those all stand without and refutation by my opponent. Therefore, my arguments have withstood his, and his cited verses for his argument don't seem to hold water. There was no conclusionary statements made, nor any reference to remarks that completely destroyed his point of view, delivered in round 3.

It is indisputable that according to the Bible God made man and women unique. He also designed the growth cycle of child to adult and when he had finished his creation he called it very good in Genesis 1 and 2. Sin may have altered some thing on earth, but that does not change the fact that God designed children and he has a place for them. My opponent never refuted the verses I presented in which God declared children as valuable gifts, the heirs of his kingdom, and a pure joy to the world. Over and over again my points were simply brushed aside by some fallacious comment such as "you're too young," or "you couldn't understand this." My points themselves were never discussed in these situations.

I have found this debate extremely enjoyable, and I think it's been a fruitful one as well. Some ideas I was a little uneasy about before, but my opponenets inability to respond to them has encouraged me in that sense considerably. I would like to thank my opponent for participating with me, and sticking with it until the end. Several times over this debate we got off topic and touched up on some different ideas we didn't have space to address fully. Because of this, I would like to forward an invitation first to my opponent for a follow-up debate on any of these subjects we weren't able to fully address. Second I would like to forward the same invitation to any observer who would like to challenge me.

Thank you for your attention throughout this discussion.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by whiteflame 3 years ago
>Reported vote: dsjpk5// Mod action: NOT Removed<

1 point to Con (Conduct). Reasons for voting decision: Pro called Con "deranged" and "psychotic" in round two. This is poor conduct.

[*Reason for non-removal*] While I understand that this particular voter has cast similar votes on several debates that one of these debaters has participated in, that is not sufficient reason for removal. The vote meets the standards, explaining why he decided to award conduct based on what was stated in the debate. If the debater(s) wish to exclude this voter in the future, they may include a rule stating that he may not vote.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
@Purushadasa - Awe does the window dressing XXX tattooed on his doll to give him objectivity actually thinks he has something to say beneath his silliness of fragile breakable skin that he holds dearly unto himself because he is a self righteous anal attentive racist pig only seeking attention from the forest feathers of the deep? Um no dimwitted dullard damnation ally radioactive wasteland, how can children learn to hate without guiding parents like you and your god and bible to guide them? Maybe next time you will learn from your sheepish boorish moronic childish frantic lip syncing boy bands as they have more peace offerings than you ever could within a disco ball. After all you have no genuine friends or loved ones which is so blatantly obvious.
Posted by Purushadasa 3 years ago
Without God, hating children could not be objectively wrong.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro called Con "deranged" and "psychotic" in round two. This is poor conduct.

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