The Instigator
Pro (for)
0 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
4 Points

imagination is false, and belief is imaginary

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/14/2015 Category: Science
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 572 times Debate No: 77654
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)




there is no true or honest point to make beyond personal experience

belief=be lie, as i dont know is true

i dont know=i have to imagine it=i can at best imagine it=maybe

my personal physical experience of now is everything, and anywhere beyond that is the reflection of nothing


I thankfully accept @vispex's public challenge.
BoP is fully on PRO.

RESOLUTION: "Imagination is false" & "Belief is imaginary"
PRO will have to prove both of these statements to gain victory in the eyes of the viewers.

PRO's "equations" should not be counted as definitions as they have no credible backing.

One's "belief" cannot always be a lie, can it? For example, I believe that DDO is a website, that there are many users, and that there is a specific one with an account named "Vispex" that is trying to prove something to me. Are these all a lie? Because I believe in them wholeheartedly.

As for knowing it's truth, I know that I exist. And I believe that I exist as well. I know that the truth factor in my existance is one, because I know I exist.

If you don't know, you don't have to imagine it. It can be drawn for you to understand, explained by others, or simply observed.
And if you can at best imagine it, that doesn't mean it's a maybe. Though seeing is believing for many people, there are many more who find that belief is a triat that can lead to a truth.
Debate Round No. 1


math is absolute.

i see ddo and i see many users.. i dont have to imagine it

how do you know if a cuffe cup is to hot to grab?

so if you burn your hand severly almost instantaniously when you grab a coffe cup, you dont know if its to hot to grab?


Math is absolute enough to allow for it's non-absoluteness. Besides, math needs a context, otherwise things such as a "circle" neer would've come into being.

You don't have to imagine DDO, you have to believe it exists though. IF you chose to imagine DDO, THEN your imagination would be true, becuase it is based off of truth.

You know a coffe cup is too hot to grab by observing the liquid steaming, or by feeling the radiative warmth, or by quickly touching a figer to the side to check it's temperature. And that's without any complicated machinery.

I don't see the connection between a coffee cup and imagination.
Debate Round No. 2


i dont have to imagine reading these Words and seeing this website.. light on my screen is real

know=physical experience
belief=be lie, as i dont know=unknown

is the coffe cup on my table to hot to grab?


You do not have to imagine something that is real... but you can. And, in that case, your imagination would be real. Therefore imagination isn't always untrue, as there are occasions where it is truthful

Not everything you know comes from a physical experience. Have you ever lost a leg? Don't think so, yet eeryone knows that it would hurt.

Belief is actually more likely to be defined as KNOWING without having concrete proof. So belief = I know = known.

And I don't know if it's too hot. It should probably be good enough to drink now, expecially since you asked me first in round 2. That was, what, 15 minutes ago? It should be fine now...
Debate Round No. 3


i cant imagine reality, reality is unbelieved

imagination is the opposite of memory, truth, truth is logical and imagination is illogical, fantasy, imaginary

depends on the situation, maybe you are in a coma while breaking it, and it heals before you come out of the coma so it didnt hurt one bit

belief is specifikally the opposite of truth and true

i reheated it


I really don't know what this has to do with the resolution, but here goes:

"I can't imagine reality"(grammer fixed by mfigurski)
I can. Can you imagine an apple? I think everybody should be able to. Yet an apple does exist in reality. So you have imagined reality. And so reality is imaginable, yet imagination isn't always real.

Imagination uses memory, so it cannot be opposite. Truth isn't always logical, and imagination can be very logical. Sometimes imagination can be more logical than truth.

No, I'm asking if YOU SPECIFICALLY can imagine yourself in that situation. Which you have proven you can by posting your short scenario.

Belief is specifically the truth, at least in most cases.
Belief - "conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence "

If you reheated the coffee when posting, it should be pretty cold now, an hour later. PLease don't ask about the coffee again, I have alredy mentioned some simple ways of testing wether it is hot. Look at the end of my Round 2.

PRO has so far not been able to demostrate the reality of any of his wild equations, much less the actual resolution. To my partner, please get it together and actually find some evidence. Yes, it can be logical, but it has to be sound.
Debate Round No. 4


i can imagine an apple, and the imaginary apple is not real.. if i only eat imaginary apples i will die

dude.. so imagine yourself poking your leg with a hot poker


I never said imaginary things are material, I simply said that they are real.

I have no clue what imagining myself being poked would prove. That is imagining something that isn't based on reality, so it isn't real. If you imagine something based off of reality, it'll be real. Seems simple, yet some don't understand...

Again, PRO has dropped all points beside this one in his Round 5 rebuttal, and actually didn't understand what I said anyway. EVERYTHING that my partner has pointed out is either false or incredibly off-topic, with the exemption of setup in Round 1. I have done my best to show this to you, yet I don't think I should have bothered.


Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by whiteflame 3 years ago
>Reported vote: Lsumichiganfan// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Con. Reasons for voting decision: Okay so Mfigurski gets argument and conduct points because his arguments made sense and they were neatly formatted and he made rebuttals vi spex almost didn't rebut anything he just said random equations. Con gets sources because he used them and con gets spelling and grammar because pro failed to use any grammar of any kind.

[*Reason for removal*] (1) The argument points are not clearly explained. Saying that one of the debaters arguments "made sense" lacks any analysis specific to the debate. (2) Conduct is not explained in any way that justifies the vote. Formating differences and a lack of rebuttals do not justify the point allocation. (3) It's entirely unclear what the basis for spelling and grammar is. Stating that one side "failed ot use any grammar of any kind" is hyperbolic and non-specific. (4) Having more sources alone does not justify a source vote, especially when the sole source provided by Con is a dictionary definition. You must explain why that source justifies the vote, and not just because it's the only source.
Posted by vi_spex 3 years ago
right.. my debates prove my position is odd..
Posted by mfigurski80 3 years ago
You think a lot of very odd things, as proven by your debates.
Posted by vi_spex 3 years ago
i just think you agree with me
Posted by mfigurski80 3 years ago
I publicly agree that I have no clue what you are talking about, and you probably don't understand yourself either.
Posted by vi_spex 3 years ago
do you publicly agree with yourself that i won?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by tejretics 3 years ago
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Arguments. I vote Con solely on grounds of burden of proof. I didn't get any strong argument from Pro's side -- Pro's arguments frequently lacked links. Pro's burden was to prove: (1) imagination is false, and (2) belief is imaginary. Con does not challenge (1), so I shall focus on (2). Con argues belief in mathematical axioms are true, and Pro *concedes* that math is "absolute," misinterpreting belief. Pro keeps using the analogy of a coffee cup being too hot to grab, but fails to establish a link. Impacts are insufficient sans a link, thus Pro fails to fulfill BoP. The resolution is a fact claim, so Pro has full BoP, which Pro fails to fulfill, and Con negates. S&G. I found Pro's argument especially hard to understand. In R1, Pro frequently replaces "is" with an "=" sign. Pro also misspells "coffee" and "specifically". Pro fails to punctuate, and there is a severe lack of punctuation. Combined, these really hurt readability. Thus, S&G and arguments to Con.