The Instigator
Pro (for)
Anonymous
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
PointProven
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

is God real?

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Post Voting Period
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It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/5/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,147 times Debate No: 118460
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (33)
Votes (0)

 

Pro

Are you willing to back up your claim here. You said in the comments section of one of my debates that he isn't real
PointProven

Con

Sure, I accept. But keep in mind that the burden of proof is not on me. I will tell you my reasons for not believing in a god or gods but I expect you to provide somewhat decent evidence that there is one, Or at least reasons to believe.
Debate Round No. 1

Pro

The first thing atheists tell me when I say that God exists is that no one can prove it. This is partially correct because we cannot see physical signs of him. That does not mean however that there aren't good arguments for him. I will give a few of them here.
The first is the argument from design. When you look at the world around us, You see the complexity of it. Take DNA. It contains the amount of information equivalent to 1000 sets of Encyclopedia Britannica's put together. Every life form on this earth has them. Without a God, In the equation, Then it all must have come from nothing. But if it takes a very smart person-years to put together even one, Then wouldn't there have to be an even more intelligent person to put together 1000 sets of encyclopedia's in the first one-celled animal. Or did it all just come together from an explosion, Also known as the big bang? If so, That is an awful lot to be arranged perfectly from a single explosion. As a matter of fact here are some probabilities of it coming together from actual material.
1. The chance of life forming from non-life is 1 in 10 to the 40, 000th power. That is 10 with 40, 000 zeros after it
Source: https://www. Scienceforums. Net/
Source: www. Ideacenter. Org/contentmgr/showdetails. Php/id/740

2. The chance of the universe coming into existence by chance is 1 in 400 quadrillion
Source: https://blogs. Plos. Org/

3. The chance of a simple protein coming from dead matter is 1 in 1. 28 with 10, 175 zeros after it
Source: http://www. Creationstudies. Org/

4. The chance of the earth by itself coming into existence from nothing is 1 in 700 quintillion
Source: https://answersingenesis. Org/

5. "The chance of evolution occurring is equivalent to the chance of a blindfolded person throwing a pebble into outerspace, Knocking down a satellite that then crashes down on a target on a van on a highway"
Even in a billion years, That's never going to happen
Source: https://answersingenesis. Org/

Another thing about evolution. What about mutualism? Mutualism, Is a relationship between two organisms where both benefit. An example of this is between the oriental sweetlips and the blue streak wrasse. The Oriental sweetlips is one of the few fish that has teeth. However it must get them cleaned otherwise they would rot and fall out. So, The blue streak wrasse cleans the oriental sweetlips teeth by eating all of the plaque on it. This gives the blue streak wrasse a good meal, And at the same time, The oriental sweetlips gets its teeth cleaned, Thus causing both to benefit. Evolution states that one life form came into existence from dead matter. This process by itself is impossible but that is aside the point. For now let's just say it happened. That life form reproduced creating every species of animals we see today. In order for evolution to be true, This case of mutualism would have to have come across by chance. At some point in time evolutionists would say that the sweetlips probably had no teeth but in a number of generations, Teeth began to form. In order for these teeth not to rot, The sweetlips would have to develop the instinct to seek out a fish to clean it's teeth. This instinct would have to develop at EXACTLY THE SAME TIME THE TEETH EVOLVED. But that's not enough. At the exact time these instincts evolved, The blue streak wrasse would have to INDEPENDENTLY decide to swim in the sweetlips mouth without the fear of being eaten. Remember, If these don't happen at the exact same time, The process won't work. That is just one of millions of examples of mutualism. There are just too many of these happy coincidences for evolution to be possible if DNA is that complicated, Can you even imagine the rest of the world? How can it be chance? How can it all come from an explosion that I don't even believe to be possible. Nothing cannot produce something so I don't see how this explosion could have occurred. This world calls for an intelligent designer, Not chance.
My second argument is the argument from motion. According to Isaac Newton's first law of motion everything that is in motion will stay in motion until acted on by another force. At the same time, Nothing will ever be in motion until acted on by another force. In other words if anything is in motion, There must be a force that causes it to do so. This law completely contradicts the idea that there is no God. You see, Everything in this world is in motion. Because nothing can set itself in motion, There must be an outside force that is the result of all motion today. Because God is all powerful he can do anything and therefore does not need to be set in motion and is the only thing that can be the root cause of all motion today. Otherwise, Isaac Newton is wrong.
My third argument. How does matter arise to make this whole scenario possible in the first place? The big bang is bound by some very important scientific laws. The law of conservation of energy, The law of conservation of mass, The law of biogenesis, And Newton's first law of motion. All 4 of these scientific laws and the big bang cannot be true at the same time because they are contradictory. The Big bang is believed to be the result of all energy and mass but the law of conservation of mass says that matter cannot be created or destroyed. You believe in the big bang theory but the Big bang itself is a theory and according to the scientific method, A scientific law has so much more credibility then a theory. So, In this case, In order to believe in the big bang theory, You are forced to rely on the LEAST reliable data while ignoring the MOST reliable data. Not good scientific practice.
My third argument is the cosmological argument. Here is what it states:
P1 everything that exists has a cause of existence
P2 Because the universe exists, It must have a cause of existence
P3 Because nothing cannot produce something, That cause must be an outside force
P4 That outside force is God
P5 God created the universe
C God exists
I will probably get lots of questions on this particular argument which I will answer in the next round.
PointProven

Con

Ah, The complexity argument, Excellent choice. The funny thing about that argument is that you claim that because organisms are so complex, They could have only been created by something equally or more complex. But that begs the question, If complex things must come from other complex things, Then where does god come from? God is one of the most complicated ideas ever, Therefore by your standards, God must have been created by something using intelligent design, Like by another god. However Christians do not believe this, They believe that god was always there. How does that make sense?
You also mentioned how atheists believe that everything just came together from an explosion. Is that how you think we view the big bang? That there was just a *poof* and then all life was formed? That's the exact opposite of what we believe. The big bang did not instantly create life, It took an insanely long time before even the first signs of life appeared after the big bang.
Christians, On the other hand, Believe that some all powerful being managed to create everything out of thin air. That kinda sounds a lot like how you described the big bang, Doesn't it?
You also showed some figures on how impossible it is for the universe to come together by chance and a bunch of other things involving the development of life, And I'm not sure how credible those sources are, Not to mention, Where the hell did these figures come from? How would anyone know that? It sounds like some idiot just pulled these numbers out of nowhere.
You go on to talk about mutualism between species and ask how that can be possible. Now despite the fact that this has nothing to do with whether or not god exists, You quite literally explained it yourself. So I'm moving past it.
Now for a quote, I love this one, It's your own. "Nothing cannot produce something so I don't see how this explosion could have occurred. " Nice. Wasn't your god created by nothing? Please, Make up your mind.
You continue to ask questions about evolution, And the big bang, And all this forming by chance, But like I said, The burden of proof is not on me. It's actually impossible for me to disprove your god. But guess what? I also can't disprove the tooth fairy, Does that mean it exists?
Now for the scientific laws. I"m not exactly sure how you thought mentioning them would help your argument but I"ll respond nonetheless. You tried to use Isaac Newton"s laws as some sort of contradiction in science, But then you go on to mention that Newton was wrong, Which he was(about some things). That sort of defeated your whole point involving Newton's laws.
And finally, The so called "cosmological laws". I find this quite hilarious. You are just quoting someone else saying various things about the universe, Including "god exists". Ever hear of circular reasoning? You are just saying that god exists because some guy said so. Ridiculous.
Debate Round No. 2
PointProven

Con

Seeing as you didn't respond to my points, I'm going to assume that you don't actually want to have a discussion about one the worlds most interesting things, Which is religion. You challenged me to this debate and I did my best to refute your arguments without insulting your beliefs, However I have a feeling you don't much care about what others have to say simply because they don't agree with you.
Debate Round No. 3
PointProven

Con

I hope we will be able to finish this debate when that stuff with the hurricane blows over. Take care.
Debate Round No. 4
PointProven

Con

PointProven forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
33 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
Hey guys. Sorry to anyone who I forfeited a debate with. I am probably not going to be able to participate in a debate for a while but when I can, I will gladly finish it with you guys.

Backwardseden- I appreciate your words about the hurricane. Tc man

Andrew- thank you for the message you sent me. We are currently going through a crisis with the hurricane but I think we will be okay.

I will talk to you all soon
Posted by PointProven 3 years ago
PointProven
If you can't respond, At least read my points.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
I might not have time to respond. Hurricane Michael is about to hit us.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Yeah jackiebaby can't read it? More like he doesn't "want" to read it. That's the difference. And its a big one as jackiebaby ALWAYS, No exceptions, None, Takes the easy way out. Oh and btw jackiebaby if you are not able to read what I have most recently posted you from the article in which clearly points out to YOUR god being fraudulent and fake especially to the stupidest person on the planet, In which you must obviously rank below that, Then there's a 0% possibility of you being able to read and thus interpret your bible, Especially correctly. Oh darn.
Oh btw jackiebaby, There's plenty more to point out that YOUR god is fake and fraudulent from the article. It hasn't even gotten started. So if you continue to post more articles on your idiotic ideals of "is god real" or "are there contradictions in the bible" or ANYTHING that has to do with your god regardless of the topic, Unless its something positive, In which case your god is not as that is a true impossibility IF YOU WERE TO READ YOUR BIBLE you would clearly find out that this is true, Then I will post more from this article, And it will squash you. Got it?
Posted by PointProven 3 years ago
PointProven
I enjoy when Christians choose not to believe in evolution or the big bang because there isn't enough evidence to support them. How come they don't have this same standard when it comes to god?
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
Please don't blame me if I don't respond. You have treated me poorly
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
I don't blame Jack if he doesn't respond after the poor way you have treated him
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
You can't read it? That's entirely your problem. Tough. Its rather simple. Poke holes in it. No questions are required for a stud like you. Now you've got a day. I also gave you fair warning about this website and that you should have looked it over and that you would run from it because there's 0% of nothing that you can refute. You are just a coward because you know god damned well that you have ab-so-lu-te-ly no answers and now that you've been stacked against the wall with rock solid proof that your bible is crap and also your god from it, You have no outs and you know it. Too bad. Deal with it. Nighty night. We've all dealt with your crap for long enough. The tide is now turned. Darn.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Friends? You blew your chance at that when you decided to lie to people, When you decided to present false evidence, When you decided COUNTLESS TIMES to forfeit debates for in which you had no answers to for when others posed questions unto you and you had no answers, For in which you have never admitted that you were wrong on any debate and you knew damn well that you were, For posting the same debate time and time and time and time and time and time and time again in which has been debunked by at least 8 others and you cannot under any circumstance learn from your mistakes etc etc etc friends? You have a lot to apologize for buddy boy.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
I get to do the same to you though
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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