The Instigator
missmedic
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points
The Contender
timmyjames
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points

is belief a choice?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
missmedic
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/19/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,715 times Debate No: 118625
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (68)
Votes (3)

 

missmedic

Con

The question of how and why we believe things is a crucial point of disagreement between atheists and theists.
Beneath these surface disagreements is a more fundamental dispute over the nature of what belief is and what causes it. A better understanding of how a person arrives at a belief can illuminate whether or not atheists are overly skeptical or theists are overly credulous. It can also help both atheists and theist better frame their arguments in their attempt to reach each other.
So Timmy is belief a choice?
timmyjames

Pro

Belief is a choice. God gave us free will and because of that, We have the right to choose.
Debate Round No. 1
missmedic

Con

I would agree that we have will and the ability to choose, As to where it came from is for another debate.
We cannot choose to just believe anything. Belief itself simply does not appear to be a matter of will or choice. A real problem with this idea of beliefs is that an examination of the nature of holding beliefs does not lead to the conclusion that they are very much like actions, Which are voluntary. A a belief is not an action and, Hence, Cannot be attained by command " either by your own or by another's. Belief requires good reasons, And although people may differ on what constitutes "good reasons, " it is those reasons which cause belief, Not a choice.

https://www. Nobeliefs. Com/beliefs. Htm
timmyjames

Pro

You're right, Belief does require reasons. If I couldn't give a reason why Christianity is the right religion, Then there is absolutely no reason to choose it over Buddhism or Islam. However, There is a reason that Christianity is the right religion. I will simply give a link to a short 10 minute speech by Ravi Zacharias
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=o5qJPZySo7A
If the link doesn't work, Just search why Christianity is the right religion Ravi.
It is for those reasons why I believe Christianity is the right religion, And thus, That is why I chose to believe it.
Debate Round No. 2
missmedic

Con

Knowledge, Observation, Rational thinking, Curiosity, And skepticism trump beliefs every time. If you have been educated (to a certain degree) and can observe and think about things and have a natural curiosity about how things work, And have the skepticism and wisdom to distinguish between workable propositions and unworkable propositions, Then you no longer require beliefs. This does not require you to have a high intelligence or a PhD degree but simply enough education to allow you to live.

However, If you have little or no education and do not know about the world, Then beliefs serve a the next best thing to knowledge. Beliefs stem from natural evolution and allows children to learn from their elders before their brains become fully developed. Some experts suggest that the human brain becomes fully developed at around age 25 [source], While others think the brain does not become fully mature until the 30s and 40s. Unfortunately, Some people's brains never fully develop. Some people, Even with fully developed brains, Never become adequately educated about the world. If you fall into any of these categories, Then you need beliefs in order to live. This means that you require others to think for you, Instead of you being able to think for yourself. Thus beliefs do serve a purpose for some people. Unfortunately this allows some people to introduce false information to you (usually from religionists, Politicians, Scam artists) and you would not have the mental tools to distinguish between workable and unworkable propositions.

If, However, You are an adult and possess the qualities of knowledge, Observation, Etc. , And yet still believe in things, Then you probably never considered the option to disown beliefs. If this applies to you, Please realize that many, If not all or of your beliefs, Come from other people, Not you. You have the "choice" to think for yourself or allow others to think for you. Remember the more you know the less you believe. Thank you for your time and the debate.
timmyjames

Pro

For most religions, Things like knowledge, Observation, Rational thinking, Curiosity, And skepticism would trump it. However, What if there was a true religion? If there was a true religion that was accurate in every way possible, Then couldn't there possibly be reasons for believing it? So if I for example prove that yes, Maybe I was a Christian early in life because of exposure from my parents, But later in life I wonder if it is actually the right religion, Or if it can claim to be exclusive to other religions. These questions have crossed my mind before and when you look at the Bible closely you find that it is accurate in every way possible. It is accurate scientifically. Take for example the flood, There is overwhelming evidence supporting the fact that a global flood happened.

For someone reason it is not letting me paste the links, Sorry about that. If you research it you will find the evidence I am talking about.

Christianity is reliable historically. Every single event the Bible says happened is backed up with overwhelming evidence. Every single prophesy in the Bible has come to pass.

Again, It wouldn't let me paste a link, But you will find sites that list 100's of fulfilled Biblical prophesies.

No matter how you look at Christianity, You cannot dis-prove it. Those are reasons for believing in a religion. No other religion is like Christianity. Although Some people believe there are Biblical contradictions, In a separate debate I can show why every single one of those supposed contradictions is wrong.

Maybe early in life belief isn't really a choice, But for Christians, At some point it is inevitable that belief is a choice and you have decide whether or not your religion is indeed the right religion.

I would like to thank my opponent for a great debate and good luck in the voting period.
Debate Round No. 3
68 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
Let me just say, We dodged a huge bullet. Just hours before the hurricane weatherman predicted that it was heading straight to Tallahassee but it just barely shifted west of us. Although we still got hit very hard, We were spared the worse. Fortunately we were only out of power for 5 days so that was a huge relief. Others, However, Were not so fortunate. It hit Mexico beach, Panama City, And Mariana very hard. The entire city for those areas is completely obliterated. Hopefully, I will get an opportunity to go over there and help them.
But yeah, That just about sums it up. Thanks for asking about it.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@jackgilbert - No no. I'm not stupid enough to challenge you on any debate because you do not know how to gather proper evidence.
But what I am concerned about is how---are---you---doing? Where do you live? I hope that where you live did not get hit/ pulverized by the hurricane?
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
Hey guys, I'm back! I have decided to not have any more religious debates for a while, But instead focus on things like the death penalty, Gun control, Global warming, Etc. If you are interested in any of those topics, And you wish to debate me one any of them, By all means, Challenge me.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Uggggg! "Then where does it come from, If not from God? " What if its a different god other than the god according to the bible? Or the best bet, What if its no god at all? As stated animals are far more moral than man.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
OK let me rephrase. . . You may have some "answers" to christianity. But there's no evidence to christianity. If there was, Those, Or the person who could prove it would, Well the 20 arguments that you showed me would have at least 30 billion, Yes that's with a "b" hits, People would be in such awe of christianity, That the people or person who proved christianity would be the only quadrillioniare(s) on the planet. ALL media outlets would cover these findings - the idiot box (TV as I call it), All facets of the internet, All newspapers, All radio, Ev-ry-th-in-g the media would offer and there would be no shut off of it for decades. This is what people do when they prove their god(s). But alas its never happened because there's no ---evidence--- for the supernatural. Now how can there be evidence for your god? There's been no tests, No demonstrations, No declarations becaue you nor anyone knows what your god is! Think about that. What IS your god? Your god never gives a description of himself in his bible, So how does ---anyone--- know what your god is? AND how does anyone know what to look for when and if they find your god? What's really ridiculous to me is that throughout your bible is this god of yours is based on an absolute superior ego god complex. He SCREAMS of ego. So in no possible way is he going to rely on faith as evidence. And yet that's all there is in what this god absolutely relies on in your bible for. Now I posted unto you an atheist experience debate from last week of Matt Dillahunty and Jen Peeples of two phone calls that both digs right to the heart of faith. Would you be willing to listen to and watch them this time around? They are reasonable, Thinking, Common sense, Rational, Logical - especially the second call of a girl seeking guidance and questioning which you should do, And I would do if the evidence were to shift - yes there I said it, Calls!
Posted by timmyjames 3 years ago
timmyjames
@Backwardseden, I completely understand where your coming from and the answers to a lot of your questions for me are simply, "I don't know. " I do not have all the answers to Christianity, But I am claiming that the are there.

Those are some good shows. I'll look into them
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Yeah I see missmedic also just pointed out "We do not need gods to be good, We need reason. " He's 100% correct on that also. Man was doing just fine before god entered the picture, And then POOF when god did enter the picture, Things went to pot about 6, 000 years ago. Notice that? Egyptian civilization was going just fine, Stonehenge, The Mayas were rumbling along etc. Science, Mathematics, Cities being built for the first time were all going along nicely in which to this day have not as of yet been figured out. Then your god stepped in. Granted G"bekli Tepe had toppled. But many now believe that's because of a comet crashing into the earth of all things! Personally I believe we need more than reason though. Along with reason, There's thinking, Rationalizing, Common sense, Logic etc.
My hands are KILLING me right now. Araraggggggg.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Cannot miss. . .
* Strange Things and Stranger Things!
* If you don't know who Monty Python was, Now's the time to LAUGH. Simply type in Monty Python for a flurry of pretty near everything they ever did and click on something, Anything. This is British humor at its absolute best and clearly one of the very best TV series of all time.
* Black Panther
* Changeling Wow what a film. A single mother's kid goes missing so the government replaces him with a kid that's not her kid! Based on a true story.
* Makkhi This a HILARIOUS Bollywood film (yes you can skip a good first half hour of it and please do). A girls boyfriend is murdered because of the jealous boyfriend and he is reincarnated as a fly to take his exacting revenge! Think of all the fun juicy parts this film just cannot pass up!
* Thor Ragnarok

If you like nature documentaries there's Planet Earth 1 and II.
There's a few space documentaries such as one not to be missed The Farthest Voyager in Space

Plenty more to recommend. I also love cartoons. So if you love them, I can recommend them. But Voltron: Legendary Defender is some great stuff.

Well gtg please always tc and have fun -Michael
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
And absolutely animals do have morals and consciousness. I'd even argue that with plants and trees though many would disagree with that. This planet is Mother Earth. Each and every living thing provides balance except when things are taken out of balance such as what is being done now with what man is doing such as polluting the skies and oceans, Deforesting the forests etc etc etc to make room for his pitiful little self. Man doesn't have that right and especially doesn't have the right to rape the earth.
There was a show on PBS. Org on Tues called From Caves to Cosmos The shows description "Combine ancient wisdom and modern science to answer a 15, 000-year-old question: who were America"s First Peoples? The answer hides in Amazonian cave paintings, Mexican burial chambers, New Mexico"s Chaco Canyon and waves off California"s coast. " the link (though it will be broken). . . Https://www. Pbs. Org/video/from-caves-to-cosmos-lsaxwq/ Give this a lookie. You will be impressed with not only communications from ancient times, But true advancements and astonishing mathematics.

OK Netflix. I'm not sure what you are into but there's one helluva lot of stuff that was just uploaded as far as christianity is concerned. . .
The gospel of john
The gospel of luke
The gospel of mark
The gospel of matthew
Those 4 films are supposed to be word for word of the entire books and narrations and reenactments about workings with jesus. How truthful that is, Who knows? But I give you fair warning. . . Religious films as of late, Considering the fact that they either don't make it to the theaters and or when they do, They BOMB, They are REALLY bad films. I'm not saying that because I'm an atheist. I'm saying that as an active film-goer who loves films. Religious films really do suck as of late.

Now what I highly recommend is 1. Amelie (french subtitled) one on the most WONDERFUL films ever made! Catch it! Will be disappearing on Nov. 1
Voltron: Legendary Defender GREAT robot cartoon se
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Oh you bad puppy getting caught at being only 15. . . But it is just as I thought. There's no way I profiled you at 24 as your profile states.
OK some things about the debate that you don't simply understand about the debate that you are in with missmedic that I will not leave a post for that are grave fallacies. . . 1. You automatically assume that your god exists when you have 0 proof whatsoever that he does. He can chew you up for that but thus far hasn't. But the thing is, You expect that everybody assumes that your god exists. You stated "Most people believe in God" = WRONG. Did you really think about that one? Come on? Had you thought about it, No you didn't because if you did, Most people on the planet are children in the first place so they really haven't formed opinions as far as what they believe and everybody, No exceptions is born an atheist. Now the #1 religion that is worshiped is the christian religion, Yes. But that is rapidly failing and fading. 2. He's also very correct in stating that you do not answer your own question "Without a God, Is there moral truth? " But pose more questions instead of solving the question you posed. Do you not see that? He could also ask 3. Which god? Since you did not state which god but he didn't. 4. He is 100% correct in stating "The data, However, Indicate that the majority of human beings from all cultures and religions or no religion agree on a common set of moral standards. " After all, This country as an example is NOT based on your god, Thankfully. It does NOT follow the 10 commandments as an example. If we were to follow the morals set by your god, This country not only would not exist in any way shape or form but the world would probably be at constant war and hate as clearly as depicted as in the bible. 5. He brings in social animals. And wow I gotta say that they have a lot better morals than your god and man. You don't see them murdering each other for any other reason other than mates or domain.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Anonymous 3 years ago
missmedictimmyjamesTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro argued as it this was a debate of "Is Christianity real," rather that belief being a choice - arguments to con as they focused on the debate topic. Conduct, Grammar and Sources tie. Debate to con
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
missmedictimmyjamesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Countering backwards horrible vote.
Vote Placed by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
missmedictimmyjamesTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: All throughout the debate Pro tried to insist that christianity is "the" correct belief. That's not what this debate is about. This debate is about "is belief a choice?" and thus Pro missed the entire point and idea behind the debate especially when he cannot prove his god even exists. Pro also mentions Ravi Zacharias when this guy has no idea, none, as to what atheism is and inserts his own stomping ground ideas in which also has nothing to do with "is belief a choice?" and assumes christianity is the correct religion in which once again is not what this debate is about. Pro also goes wayyyy overboard in stating that the great flood actually happened when there is no scientific evidence to support this claim. Regardless, where does this fit in this debate about "belief"? So does Pro "believe" the great flood happened? This kind of ideal ruined his arguments and ideals.

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