The Instigator
Con (against)
Anonymous
The Contender
John_Eaton
Pro (for)

is evolution real

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/8/2018 Category: Science
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 2,164 times Debate No: 117532
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (71)
Votes (0)

 

Con

For the first round please just accept the debate. Arguments will begin next round.
John_Eaton

Pro

Religious folk have no interest in the truth. This is my accepting statement.
Debate Round No. 1

Con

Unfortunately, Most of the population today believe in evolution, More specifically macro-evolution. But believe me when I say that it is not because of the evidence. You will understand this concept as you read. But anyway Macro-evolution is the belief that life started as one organism and that organism reproduced and slowly developed into million of species in a process that took millions and millions of years. For example, It is believed that in the space of 2 million years, A dog can develop into a horse. A fish can develop into a bird and so on. In this round, I am going to attack the overall concept of macro-evolution from these Scientific standpoints: The details of the fossil record, Structural homology, Molecular biology, And mutualism.

The Details Of The Fossil Record: Evidence Against Macro-Evolution

If Macro-evolution really happened, The first place you would look for confirmation would be the fossil record. After all, If dogs did eventually give rise to horses, Then we should be able to find fossils of animals somewhere between a dog and a horse. These are called transitional forms because they represent a transition from one species and another. Unfortunately, Very few of these were ever found. And even those were highly questionable. So instead of finding the transitional forms that paleontologists thought they would find, They found mostly gaps. The core of macro-evolution argues that species give rise to species in a slow, Gradual process that takes years on top of years. But the fossil record reveals a very different story. This is the sudden emergence of entirely new species with no apparent immediate ancestors. Consider this for a moment. Macro-evolution attempts to explain the earth's past. But because we don't have anyone who lived 20 million years ago to tell us that macro-evolution happened, We have to look for data that either support or refute the idea. The first place to look for data would be the fossil record. What does it tell us? It says macro-evolution never happened. The transitional forms that would be necessary for one life form to change to another simply do not exist. If the STRONGEST piece of data to tells us that macro-evolution never happened, Scientists simply should not believe in it.

Structural Homology: More evidence against macro-evolution:

Now to my next argument. Structural Homology is the study of similar structures in different species. Before I explain why this is evidence against macro-evolution, It is important to understand why it was originally believed to support macroevolution in the first place. Darwin supposed that if two species shared similarities in different parts of their bodies, Then this could be evidence that there is a common ancestor. Consider this link that shows the structural homology of different species limbs.
http://itc. Gsw. Edu/faculty/bcarter/histgeol/paleo2/homol1. Htm

In this example, The limbs of humans and cats, And horses are actually surprisingly similar. Darwin supposed that this could be evidence that they had a common ancestor. After all, He supposed that by natural selection the original ancestor could over big blocks of time could, Give rise to many similar species. This would be exactly like people supposing that you and your brother grandson's are related because of your striking similarities. In Darwin's time, This would have been an excellent argument. How could such similar species not have a common ancestor? Well unfortunately for macro-evolutionists we know that this happens because of Mendelian genetics. You see, If structural homology was the result of common ancestry, It would show up in genetic codes in the organisms that possess similar structures. Take for example, The link I showed you of the structural homology of a human, Horse, Cat, Bat, Bird, And whales limbs. If all of these came from a common ancestor, Then the corresponding parts of their DNA should be similar. Is this the case? NO! That's not what we are dealing with. Dr. Michael Denton points out that the apparent homologous structures in different species are specified by quite different genes. He is right in this case because as scientists have studied genetics, They find that this is indeed fact. Because of this, There is absolutely no way that these could have been inherited by a common ancestor. If there was a common ancestor, Then the genes and the DNA would be somewhat similar. We know that this isn't even remotely close to the truth.

Molecular Biology: Strong evidence against macro-evolution

Aside from DNA, The most important molecule in the chemistry of life is a protein. All life forms have them and without them, There would be no life at all. The protein I will go into is called Cytochrome C which takes part in cellular metabolism. It is made up of a series of amino acid sequences which varies from species to species as seen below.
https://docs. Google. Com/document/d/1rN6jYckpQfu3VTflNWTyj2a8g38l6L78_rYlZHHkw3Y/edit

Notice in the chart each of the proteins are very similar which isn't a surprise because the protein is the same in each case. The proteins between the horse and kangaroo are nearly identical. But because of the one difference, The cytochrome C for a kangaroo will not work at all in a horse and vice versa. Proteins are made in cells according to the instructions of DNA. Thus, You are looking at the differences between specific parts of these organisms genetic code, That is the part that determines the make-up of the protein. If macro-evolution is true, Then this chart should indicate how "closely related" the two species are. If they are distantly related however, That should reflect in the chart I just showed you. Now, Let's compare the Cytochrome C amino acid sequence in several different species. Let's start with the horse and kangaroo.

Percent difference: 1/11 x 100= 9. 1% difference

When we compare the Cytochrome C amino acid sequence between a horse and the yeast however, There are 4 differences.

4/11 x 100= 36. 4% difference

This data tells us that the kangaroo is more closely related to the horse than the yeast which makes sense from a macro-evolution point of view because according to them "complex life forms evolved from simple ones. " Well, If this were true, Than it should reflect in the next chart I show you. Check out the bacterium Rhodosprillum Cytochrome C amino acid sequence and see the percent difference it has from other species.
https://docs. Google. Com/document/d/1V_4ApE6bQ7nMZE-hd16NOpJ8QBYIO8nZ2RLwlk02FtE/edit

The bacterium is the simplest life form on earth. Of the organisms listed, The yeast is the next simplest life form. If it is true that complex life forms evolved from simple ones, Then the yeast should be closely related to the bacterium. That is not the case however. Of the organisms listed on the chart, The yeast actually has a 69% difference from the bacterium while the other much more complex organisms like the horse has a 64% difference. Instead of the yeast being more closely related to the LEAST complex organisms, It is actually more closely related to the MOST complex organisms. The data in the chart shows absolutely none of the evolutionary relationships that should exist if macro-evolution really happened.

Mutualsim: The nail in the coffin for Macro-evolution:

Today there is something called mutualism which is a close relationship between two species where both benefit. An example of this is between the oriental sweetlips and the blue streak wrasse. The Oriental sweetlips is one of the few fish that has teeth. However it must get them cleaned otherwise they would rot and fall out. So, The blue streak wrasse cleans the oriental sweetlips teeth by eating all of the plaque on it. This gives the blue streak wrasse a good meal, And at the same time, The oriental sweetlips gets its teeth cleaned, Thus causing both to benefit. Macro-Evolution states that one life form came into existence from dead matter. This process by itself is impossible but that is aside the point. For now let's just say it happened. That life form reproduced creating every species of animals we see today. In order for macro-evolution to be true, This case of mutualism would have to have come across by chance. At some point in time evolutionists would say that the sweetlips probably had no teeth but in a number of generations, Teeth began to form. In order for these teeth not to rot, The sweetlips would have to develop the instinct to seek out a fish to clean it's teeth. This instinct would have to develop at EXACTLY THE SAME TIME THE TEETH EVOLVED. But that's not enough. At the exact time these instincts evolved, The blue streak wrasse would have to INDEPENDENTLY decide to swim in the sweetlips mouth without the fear of being eaten. Remember, If these don't happen at the exact same time, The process won't work. That is just one of millions of examples of mutualism. There are just too many of these happy coincidences for evolution to be possible.

Conclusion:

Today there is just too much data that Macro-evolutionists completely ignore. There are a few reasons so many people believe in it today. One, If Macro-evolution is not true than you have to accept that there is a God in the equation. After all, There really isn't any other explanation other than evolution of how life originated. Accepting that evolution is false means accepting that God is real and accepting that God is real makes a claim on your life. Another reason so many people believe in evolution is because for the most part it is not allowed to be taught in high school classrooms and college classrooms. Thus, Because the idea of evolution is so universal, It is the only thing that students have to base their beliefs on. There aren't many people that believe in God these days so their only option is to put their faith in science. But those people have to understand one thing. Science will fail us, Everything in this life will.

Sources in comments
John_Eaton

Pro

Can you please tell me where to go to your 'sources'. You have no proof of anything you are claiming therefore no one should take you seriously.

Everything I want to say is summed up by this ONE article.

http://humanorigins. Si. Edu/evidence
Debate Round No. 2

Con

First off I posted my sources in the comments if you want to take a look. Second, A link is not an argument. I am not having a debate with humanorigins. Edu I am having it with you. It is fine to reference an article as long as you provide an argument with it. Could you please do that for the next round?
John_Eaton

Pro

All 4 of your sources are in need of some serious debunking. Especially considering they tried to use big and fancy words to throw everyone off and so you could sound smarter. Sadly for you though I understood all of it.

SOURCE 1: https://evolutionunderthemicroscope. Blogspot. Com/2011/02/homology-refutes-evolution. Html

For those who couldn't be bothered reading it it was LITERALLY JUST using homology to "debunk" evolution. Here's why they are wrong or even flat out liars. The "scientist" who wrote this has a book out called "Evolution Under The Microscope: A Scientific Critique Of The Theory Of Evolution" and in that book as well as this blogpost he claims that homology and therefore evolution is false BECAUSE "In particular, As we discover more of how tissues are formed embryologically, Increasing doubt is being cast on much of the homology that has been perceived for so long at the morphological level. Notably, In view of the importance attached to the apparent homology of the vertebrate skeleton, And the weight given to embryology for identifying homology, It is especially relevant that vertebrae " a major component of the vertebrate skeleton " form embryologically in significantly different ways for different classes of vertebrate (such as mammals, Birds, Amphibians and fish), And even from different groups of early embryonic cells. " The problem with that logic is that we evolved from a variety of animals, Even starting out as cells with a nucleus so that is most likely why that had this finding.

My source for my claim at the final sentence: https://en. Wikipedia. Org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution#Taxonomy_of_Homo_sapiens

SOURCE 2: https://creationtoday. Org/creationist-challenge/

The exact same is Source 1 just this time with more irrelevant nonsense.

SOURCE 3: https://www. Defendingthechristianfaith. Org/dna-and-structural-homology-studies-that-argue-against-evolution. Html

All this site did was make genuine conspiracy theories about being leaving out "critical information" without providing any evidence at all for these claims.

But allow me to add why Evolution is in fact real. Read on this if you wish to be informed. This bring up genetic and fossilised evidence of evolution. Https://humanorigins. Si. Edu/evidence
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
71 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
I finished the debate with LoveRichardDuckings because he debated the actual topic. You can argue against the sources as long as that's not all you say. Plus, This guy gave absolutely no evidence for evolution in any of his arguments. All reasons to not do the debate.
Posted by Im_Intelligent 3 years ago
Im_Intelligent
Why the hell are you even on a debate site jack?

If you use bad arguments they are going to get pointed out
If you use bad sources they are going to get pointed out

If you make bad arguments and use bad sources to back them up (you fill in the blank)

Your just making excuses to not finish it, You keep saying people are attacking you "on a debating platform" and acting like a baby when pointed out -_-

Also pro explained how your sources are bad because you were using them as justification for the same old arguments you keep re-pasting over and over again after we have debunked them over and over and over again, So in this case jack, Yes you got rekt and made an excuse like a baby to bail on the debate, Lets see how long it takes for you to start up another debate on a similar matter.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
@LoveRichardDawkins- I didn't debate this guy because he attacked my sources, Not my argument. I wasn't going to waste my time on something like that. And you didn't wreck me, No one has even voted on the debate yet, But you are so overconfident that if you lost, Believe me, My friend, You would never hear the end of it.
Posted by LoveRichardDawkins 3 years ago
LoveRichardDawkins
Jack you pathetic weasel. Using the exact same argument as you used against me and you still lost.
Did you block me because I wrecked you?
Posted by Im_Intelligent 3 years ago
Im_Intelligent
and another one bites the dust
Posted by John_Eaton 3 years ago
John_Eaton
I officially declare myself the victor.
Posted by John_Eaton 3 years ago
John_Eaton
I will post my response in 2 days. I want to hype it up as much as possible. Until then I will not respond to any comments or other opinions. Thank you.
Posted by Im_Intelligent 3 years ago
Im_Intelligent
What you dont understand as usual jack is that although organisms from the same common ancestor look similar at the time of their divergence they go there own separate ways and change greatly over time, A great example of this is the lineage to whales and other mammals, Its also interesting because whales have lost there legs all together although they have vestigial bones that now act as reproductive assets instead of what there original function was at one point.

What your crappy argument is not taking into account is that not all species diverged at the same time, And those that diverged from each further in the past can end up being very different both physically and genetically to its other evolutionary cousins.
Posted by Im_Intelligent 3 years ago
Im_Intelligent
So again jack

Debunked
Posted by Im_Intelligent 3 years ago
Im_Intelligent
Again no, The fundamentals can change as well, Your augment was just talking about limbs, So thats what i went on, Also every last living thing on earth shares a common ancestor with each other at some point.

Also what do you mean horses and dogs dont have similarities? I can name multiple right now.

*Four leg walking
*Body hair
*Tails
*Different coatings
*Similar internal organ structure
*Similar skeletal structure
*They only see certain colors

Also your source is a fuc**** blogspot -_-

You ignore the fact that all life shares a common ancestor which each other at some point and on top of that you disregard that these species diverged at different times.
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