The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
Losing
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The Contender
32doni32nido32
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

jesus was a liar, a fraud, was clearly insane, not the messiah, told you to get rid of your family

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after 1 vote the winner is...
32doni32nido32
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/28/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 820 times Debate No: 113248
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
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backwardseden

Pro

There are many on this planet who claim of themselves to christians. But in reality its nearly a 100% true impossibility. This is true for several reasons....

Rules: Counteract was is stated here in RD1 as well as the video and prove that christ was/ is worthy of being the messiah.

- The Video is entitled "Why Does Every Intelligent christian disobey jesus?"

1. Pay attention closely:
*Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him."
*Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."
*2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
*Psalm 19:7 "The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple."
In other words god’s word is PERFECT. It cannot be changed by anyone or anything. Christ, being the lowly drab that he supposedly was in which like god who in which nobody can even prove has ever existed could---not---change---god’s---laws---because---god’s---word---is---PERFECT---and---cannot---be---changed. Got it?
Oh yeah supposed christians also change the bible with countless updates, including changing WHAT GOD AND JESUS SAID for christ sake which never works, to suit their wants needs and desires.
2. god never appointed this travesty named jesus as the messiah and thus gave him super duper powers to change his laws. god never stated anywhere in his bible something to the effect of "I the lord thy god grants jesus the power to change my laws, rules and regulations." The fact of the matter is, is that it doesn't exist anywhere. But in truth I hope that you find it, because then that would mean that your god has appointed a well known liar. And if god is god, this supposed god would know that this jesus would lie. AND he would also know that this jesus would point blank do it several times.
3. jesus flat out lied SEVERAL TIMES in the printed bible which is most certainly not becoming of any messiah.
* Matthew 16:28 “Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”
* Mark 9:1 “And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.”
* Luke 9:27 “But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Taken from The Secular Web- Fatal Bible Flaws? “Jesus says that some of his listeners will not taste death before he comes again in his kingdom. This was said almost 2000 years ago.(Note: This passage and many others indicate that Jesus was to come again in a relatively short period of time and not just "quickly" as present day Biblicists assert. All of his listeners are now dead, yet Jesus has not come again in his kingdom. All of the alleged words of Jesus put forth in the Bible are therefore suspect.)”
* Mark 16: 17-18 “17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”
Well gosh golly gee gosh darned it all, how many have YOU personally witnessed who have survived who can drink a snake’s poison and survive? “A believer can handle snakes or drink poison and not experience any harm.
(Note: Many unfortunate believers have died as a result of handling snakes and/or drinking poison; this kind of assertion negates the Bible as a useful guidebook for life. It should also be noted that the oldest manuscripts of Mark end at MK 16:8; as the footnotes to The New Oxford Annotated Bible put it, verses 9-20 cannot have been part of the original text of Mark.)” Yes Your bible says this. So be the klutz of the year and follow this and see where it get you!!! Why DEAD of course!!!
* Mark 11:24 “Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.”
* John 14:13 “And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.”
Yep yep yeppers so go right ahead and pray for that golden rolls royce and for it to show up at tomorrow’s b-day only to see that it will never show up. Pray for that annoying skyscraper to be pounded to dust because it is blocking your view, only to see that it will never happen, pray for the sun to go supernova because you are a sick individual and you want to see the world end only to see that it will never happe. Oh yes pray for ANYTHING in jesus’s name and expect to get it because that’s EXACTLY what YOUR bible says. Yeah Its all oe big brownshoed lie by your friend and el grando nursery rhyme character jesus christ.
* John 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
There, jesus self appointed himself to be the messiah in which god, his commander in chief gave him no permission to do as such, thus that’s a lie. Even so, billions who do not believe in this christianity maggoty religion without cause should take that offensive posturing very seriously. And, well let’s put it this way, christ is the most fought after figure in history. So again, why believe? And even better yet, billions are convinced that their religion is correct and not this christ *yawn* crap. So they, ab-so-lu-te-ly would consider christianity with that one verse to be a true rolly polly cookie batter up box sweet HUGE lie and rightly so as there’s NOTHING, no EVIDENCE to support anything for christ.
4. Suppose christ existed, he was clearly insane. Yeah christ had great family values with these statements “abandon your families, give away all your possessions, follow me:
* Matthew 10: 35-37 “For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.”
* Luke 12 51-53 “Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.”
* Matthew 19: 28-29 “28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.”
Are you kidding any overbaked goose liver from the upper level of the checkbook unchecked brain left on loose change control? NOBODY, 0% of this planet’s population is going to give up their families and “follow” christ, well follow him where in the first place - to air? And give up your families, well that’d only be true if there was severe stunted abuse.
5. And then give up ALL of your possessions? That’s right ALL of them in which you reading this have---not---done unless you are reading this from another computer console outside of your home or not using your gadget phone in which is highly suspect and very unlikely.
* Luke 14:33 “So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.”
* Luke 18:22 “Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.””
* Matthew 19:21 “21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.”
* Matthew 13: 22 “22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.”
6. And to top it off your christ broke some of god’s laws such as working on the sabbath which was punishable by death. But nah not to this statuesque christ figure who did indeed worked on the sabbath which p**sed off the jews. Even to this day orthodox jews get REALLY upset when others break that code of working on the sabbath. Jesus working on the sabbath? Are you kidding like your glove box compartment tightening?
* Luke 13:14 “And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
* Mark 3: 1-6 “And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand. 2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him. 3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth. 4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace. 5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other. 6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.
* Matthew 12: 1-2 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
* Mark 2: 23-24 “”And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. 24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

I mean really who did this make believe christ fellow think he was?

* John 5:18 “Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.”

Now here’s how things truly are in the world of god, christ’s superior. god wants you to die in his bible if you break the sabbath EX 31:14, NU 15: 32-36

Summary
1. God’s laws are PERFECT and cannot be changed for any reason, and certainly not by the fraud and fake christ
2. god never gave christ powers.
3. christ was a liar.
4. christ was clearly insane in ordering you to give up your families in which no sane person would ---ever--- do unless there’s severe abuse in the hut.
5. christ orders you to give up ALL of your possessions in which sorry, I don’t believe for a single second that any of you reading this has - and then follow him.
6. christ worked on the sabbath which required the death penalty. Yet not according to christ. But god’s laws are PERFECT. Apparently not. So god is NOT perfect.


dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process.
32doni32nido32

Con

Hello, :)

I can completely understand where you're coming from; I've had a few of these questions in the back of my mind as well, so maybe we can come to a conclusion in this argument. I am by no means an expert on the Bible so all I can give is things I've learned and some guesswork.

I would first like to start off by saying that the Bible would be over 10 times longer than it already is (geez, that'd probably be taller than me) if it included every detail that happened during the time the bible was written. For instance, in John 8 it simply said that "Jesus wrote in the sand" and never clearly states what he exactly wrote. I'm saying this because even if God DID give permission to Jesus to say he was the Messiah, it likely wouldn't have been included as it's an unnecessary detail; Jesus is the son of God...he doesn't need to God to say that he has permission to call himself the savior as the permission has already been granted as soon as Jesus was created.

You've said "suppose christ existed, he was clearly insane". There are a few problems with this, the first being that the Bible was either written by people who were inspired by God or written by people who were lunatics. The second one is that if the Bible is written by people who were told what to write, God wouldn't have told them to write about some crazy insane man. The third problem is that Jesus either existed or didn't. Again, God wouldn't have had people write about some insane man even if he did or didn't exist.

Jesus said to give up your families and follow him to show the dedication that you had and leave your old life that was full of sin behind. That's what I believe he's trying to say at least. And some people WOULD give up their families whether they believed him or not. I know if I had the option to, I would leave my family whether the guy was insane or not lol. Your calculation of "0%" is incorrect. There also doesn't need to be abuse. There could also be neglect or just overall a terrible environment for someone to live in. Christ also said to give up possessions for the same reason: to show dedication and belief. You wouldn't give your possessions up for something you didn't think was real, right? The fishermen who became his disciples didn't have many belongings as they were poor, meaning they didn't have much to give up.

Overall, it comes down to Jesus was real and truly was the Messiah or didn't exist at all and is a fairy tale. There's no reason to have a story of a crazy lunatic that many different people of different times wrote about that was said to be "God-inspired". Not all of the Bible makes sense which is why Christians call it "faith"; you need to believe it happened whether it seems ridiculous or not.

I hope you're asking these questions to find answers rather than just asking questions and not listening to responses. Hopefully we can both find logical answers to our questions, whether it be through this debate or other sources. :)
Hope this helped! :)
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

"I am by no means an expert on the Bible" Well then in you being uneducated in your bible, you should have not accepted this debate. Nor should you believe in your god, christ, bible and religion. That"s because you have no cause. "so all I can give is things I've learned and some guesswork." Damn right. And because of it, this debate is going to be an instant slaughterhouse even though you showed A LOT of intelligence and an education in which is super highly appreciated, unlike most. However, let this be a lesson to you to not become involved with ANYTHING unless you know damn well sure that you 100% know what you are talking about and present rock solid evidence for it. Because if you don"t, your teachers will give you an instant F and not even think twice. Also if its guesswork as you say, then your friends and loved ones will walk away from you instantly and not even think twice especially if you present "guesswork" and not actual evidence.

"I would first like to start off by saying that the Bible would be over 10 times longer"" Well I"ve been doing this for 42+ years and have talked with roughly 22,000 on this subject and you are the only one who gets it, because in reason, your god would not use text IN THE FIRST PLACE because of that reasoning + many other reasons as text is the worst form of communication possible in which your god would ---never --- use if remotely intelligent, and your god clearly is not. You just proved it. There would simply be too much to say. And the people who hanged around with this supposed jesus who in which there"s no proof of his existence, just like your god, could not read or write in the first place. So everything was based on memory as far as what this supposed jesus said in your bible, and memory is always unreliable. That"s yet another reason why your god would not rely on text. There"s so so so many reasons.

"Jesus is the son of God...he doesn't need to God to say that he has permission to call himself the savior as the permission has already been granted as soon as Jesus was created." You didn"t read section 1. At all go back and read it. Sheesh. So I shall repeat it SINCE YOU CAN"T READ just like so so so many typical christians who call themselves christians, but are really not.
*Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him."
*Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."
*2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
*Psalm 19:7 "The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple."
In other words god"s word is PERFECT. It cannot be changed by anyone or anything. Christ, being the lowly drab that he supposedly was in which like god who in which nobody can even prove has ever existed could---not---change---god"s---laws---because---god"s---word---is---PERFECT---and---cannot---be---changed. Got it?
Oh yeah supposed christians also change the bible with countless updates, including changing WHAT GOD AND JESUS SAID for christ sake which never works, to suit their wants needs and desires.
I will further add to that, that CHRIST WAS NOT GOD.

"You've said "suppose christ existed, he was clearly insane". There are a few problems with this," There are no problems with this, if you believe in your christ according to your bible. "the first being that the Bible was either written by people who were inspired by God or written by people who were lunatics." Well then by that statement you cannot even prove that your christ has ---ever--- existed and most certainly that ---EVERYTHING--- stated by him in YOUR bible was stated by lunatics, therefore your christ was completely insane and a lunatic.
"The second one is that if the Bible is written by people who were told what to write," Yes, that"s memory, which is 100% unreliable.
"god wouldn't have told them to write about some crazy insane man." Well god is clearly insane himself. After all he hates children, and you are a child, so hates you, but then again you haven"t read your bible, in which is the only outlet you have to your god. "The third problem is that Jesus either existed or didn't. Again, God wouldn't have had people write about some insane man even if he did or didn't exist." WRONG. It only proves how insane your god was. Do you really think its sane to create someone to deliberately suffer and die on the cross and tell everybody about a fictitious "hell" and that the only way to get to heaven is to believe in this christ especially if a person rapes 6 five year old girls, tortures them, cuts their fingers off, cannibalizes them and then suddenly finds this make believe jesus and because of this he will get to heaven? Oh but wait, because I will refuse to not believe in this jesus, and rightly so, I will never get to heaven and be sent to hell. Now which scenario of the two presented is correct? And what can anyone possibly learn about suffering? Especially children who are being raped by daddy who punches them in the face for 15 years starting off at the age of 4 all the way up until 17 sometimes twice per week? Or what about a child who is reaped so bad by daddy that her anus turned into her vagina? What can she learn about suffering? And YOUR god creates millions of children KNOWINGLY DELIBERATELY to suffer per year. Your god is sick, demented, and diseased. Oh and oh yeah, your christ teaches the beginning of suffering. Buddhism teaches the end of suffering. Gee, gosh golly, I just cannot possibly imagine which one I will choose.

"Jesus said to give up your families and follow him to show the dedication that you had and leave your old life that was full of sin behind." You are full of s--t. OK then give up your family RIGHT NOW and go follow this jesus to prove your dedication to him. And in the meantime give up all of your possessions as well. ALL OF YOUR POSSESSIONS. "That's what I believe he's trying to say at least." See only the completely insane people of the earth would do exactly that unless there is severe abuse in the household. And WHAT would you follow? You cannot even prove that this christ exists!!!!!! So you would move to the desert and follow air.

"And some people WOULD give up their families whether they believed him or not." And where and who are they? "I know if I had the option to, I would leave my family whether the guy was insane or not lol." Well then go right ahead and you do it. Put up or shut up. "Your calculation of "0%" is incorrect." Actually its 100% correct. Because how can you follow a concept/ and or configuration that"s never been tested, declared, or demonstrated to be true? Especially which translation of the bible would you use? Would you follow it to the EXACT detail? Of course not. What about the Swahili version. Perhaps that"s a better translation you should follow. "There also doesn't need to be abuse." Well you"d only be totally insane to 100% give up your family if there was not abuse. Neglect and to be ignored IS the worst form of child abuse that there is. YOUR god is 100% guilty of that which proves that he hates children among a good 30 or more truly hateful truly evil and vile verses.. To prove that children in his bible do not get to say but a few sentences, if that in his bible. They don"t get to sing songs, speak their minds etc. Their mouths are literally glued shut for the entire bible. Also the entire bible is based on god"s and jesus"s frail fragile precious superior ego complex and nothing else. Hey the 10 commandments 4 of them are based on god"s boastering blubbering blank big black bile superior ego complex. And there"s NOTHING about children when there certainly MUST be something like " thou shalt always honor and protect children and never cause any harm unto them." But nah. This god of your is more concerned with his oafine fat blubbering self. "There could also be neglect or just overall a terrible environment for someone to live in." But if there"s love, you wouldn"t give up your family. "Christ also said to give up possessions for the same reason:" No. christ said you MUST give up all ALL of your possessions and follow him. No exceptions. None. Read the verses again. "You wouldn't give your possessions up for something you didn't think was real, right?" Of course not. That"s why christ either doesn"t exist or he"s completely insane. The same is 100% true for your god.

"Overall, it comes down to Jesus was real and truly was the Messiah or didn't exist at all and is a fairy tale." Or he existed and wasn"t the messiah. And because people are remarkably insecure, like you, you MUST lay balme somewhere to find security somewhere else to gain a self esteem that you don"t have and need from the outside because you are unable to look inward and find yourself to who you are as so so so many are. "There's no reason to have a story of a crazy lunatic that many different people of different times wrote about that was said to be "God-inspired"." Oh absolutely 100% true and that"s the position of an atheist. "Not all of the Bible makes sense which is why Christians call it "faith"; you need to believe it happened whether it seems ridiculous or not." Well faith is NOT a pathway to truth. Faith after all exists in ---every--- religion. So prove every other religion false. If you are a christian and you do not do so, then you are not being truthful. "Faith is the reason people give when they don"t have evidence." Matt Dillahunty and he"s 100% correct.

Well once again many thanx for being intelligent and thinking with an education, unlike nearly every single so-called christian here on debate.org who are not christians. So send your next argument!
32doni32nido32

Con

I have a lot of thoughts about this and it'll be a bit of a struggle to be able to type them out the way I intend. If I myself say anything that is confusing, please let me know and I will try to explain myself in a better manner.

First of all, for your argument, you say that Jesus is a lunatic...if he even he didn't exist. I'm fine with debating both the topic of the reality or lack thereof on the Bible and the topic of God and Jesus being bad figures, but you should separate these ideas with paragraphs even if you're explaining something from both views. You also say that Jesus was not God because God was perfect...except God was not perfect at all because the world is bad. By that logic and your argument, Jesus then WOULD be the son of God.

When I say I'm not an expert on the Bible, I mean to say that I can't provide you with answers to every single one of your questions. My goal is that we (or at least I) come to a better understanding and learn more through this experience. I don't know any Christians who claim to know everything about the Bible. There are many things that people can't understand that only God can. You're also no expert on atheism, for if you were, you would know exactly why and how the Big Bang happened and how it created everything. Neither atheism nor any religion can be proved and/or disproved. This is an argument based on our beliefs. I do many essays in English where no one in the class knows 100% of what the writer is trying to say. We come up with theories of metaphors the author was trying to include. Recently, the class read Lord of the Flies and we had to type a paper of what we believed Golding was trying to say about society. I didn't know 100% of it like everyone else. I got an A, not an "instant F". You're already incorrect. If this argument is about beliefs which we both do not know 100% on and you claim that we need to know everything about the topic otherwise we will fail, then we both lose this argument.

Why is text the worst form of communication? I've never heard of this but am willing to accept the answer if given a good source. I proved God wasn't "remotely intelligent" by saying that the Bible would be 10 times longer if every detail was included? This was a rather large jump. That was just an introduction to my statement of God not directly needing to tell Jesus that he was given permission as it's a given because Jesus IS part of God. And even if those words were said, it didn't need to be included.

I did read section one all the way through. It doesn't really affect my argument as section one states everything INCLUDED in the Bible is perfect and cannot be changed. Things that AREN'T included have absolutely no chance of being altered by humans. Section one has nothing to do with what I said.

The Bible was written by people who were being told by God what to write. God was telling them at the time what to write while they were putting down what he was telling them to. It wasn't by memory. Even if it WAS by memory, God would've made it so that they remembered it perfectly as to not screw up what he was saying.

Jesus does not hate children. Where does it say anything like that? In Mark 10: 13-16 it shows that Christ was kind to children. Hate is also considered a sin. God does not hate anyone, ESPECIALLY not children. Why do you assume I haven't read my Bible? I'm not as diligent about reading it as I should be, but I went to a private school from 1st-8th grade and we had a Bible class each day. Don't assume anything about who you're debating against because there's a chance you may be wrong. Though I may be a child physically and mentally, I don't find that to be anything derogatory if I'm not acting immature. The brain stops growing at age 25 and I have been doing many things in academics to try and be the best I can with intelligence. Of course, I will always learn more even after I'm 25 years old, but when the brain goes through changes I can adopt lifestyles that are healthy and make them a habit for when I'm older.

Jesus was called the "ultimate sacrifice" for a reason. If he's the sacrifice that needs to be made so that sin may be forgiven, then yes, God having him on a cross is sane. Because God is considered to be perfect, he also can't be insane based on that logic. You MAY try to use the previous statement against me to say that I just proved myself wrong, however I can't prove myself wrong with something that simply can't be proven in general. I'm not sure why hell was created either. This is something that I hope we can both learn through this.

"And what can anyone possibly learn about suffering?" I'm presuming you're trying to ask "what can someone possibly learn THROUGH suffering" (not trying to be a "grammar nazi" as they're called). Though I am still young and have gone through many trials of my 15-year life, I can honestly say I'm incredibly thankful for them. I was adopted into a family of a mom, dad, and sister. My sister, who I will not name during this conversation, has one of the most severe cases of bipolar disorder and my childhood was not something I like to look back on. I quit piano which I regret doing to this day as the only thing holding me back was the size of my hands; my future could've been great and perfect and I would not have had the life experience I had today. To this day my habits of eating barely anything and not recognizing hunger still affect my life, and obviously, I wouldn't have wanted that. I almost ended my life at the age of fifth grade - however (obviously) didn't go through with it - and despite all the depression and anxiety I have and will face because of it, I would not trade it in for the world. I now spend many hours a week on additional research of different mental illnesses to try and understand them. I get along well with many people who have autism, bipolar disorder, etc. because I know how to treat them and understand what they are like. Life struggles not only build character, but they also allow you to help others, learn more, and grow as a person. I'm not trying to have a pity party for myself but rather give you an example of how something negative can still be good.

Your extensive graphic descriptions of child abuse are completely unwanted and unnecessary. They make you seem just as twisted and demented as you seem to say God is. Please stop.
God also does not deliberately create children to suffer. Everyone suffers anyways, so of course, he knows it's going to happen. The Bible teaches the beginning of suffering AND the end of suffering. I also wonder whether you will choose Christianity or Buddhism as is seems you would dislike both beliefs.

I don't see why, as you say, "I'm full of s--t". What other reason (other than your opinion of Jesus being a lunatic) would Jesus want others to give up their possessions and family to prove their dedication? No one would give up their belongings for something they didn't think was a good cause or had a weak belief in. I do not feel that I need to give up my family or belongings as I have not been called to do that. If I was, I would have a struggle with it but would do so if I felt it was what I was being told to do.

I will "put up", though I ask that you do not order me what to do. I, as a matter of fact, HAVE left my family before to live with someone else temporarily. When the person was beginning to show signs of being similar to my sister, I stuck around with them because they weren't as bad. When it came to the point where it was starting to turn into abuse of a parent rather than a sibling, I figured it was a lose-lose situation and decided to go back to a place where I could play piano and create bead necklaces at a table I used as a coping method (there weren't any good ways of letting out stress at the other place I went to). I apologize for my lack of knowledge of neglect being a form of abuse. I hope you can see past that and understand that I am still learning.
"Because how can you follow a concept/ and or configuration that" never been tested, declared, or demonstrated to be true?" Though I was doing that, weren't you doing the same exact thing? Using a statistic that isn't true, just as I was, is a foolish move on both of our parts. I apologize for having used a statistic that has never been proven. I will do better in the future.
I was never abused as a child. My parents were. My sister would never harm me because she knew the danger of doing that; my mom and/or dad wouldn't hesitate to call help and send her to a hospital like they had done a few times previously. Hearing yelling, screaming, and objects being thrown multiple times a day every single day was what made me want to move to my old friend's place.
Children did not have their mouths "literally glued shut". They didn't get any opportunities that I know of, but most young children also aren't known to have tons of deep, great insight on topics.
I also used to believe that God was egotistical for wanting us to worship him, however, I learned it was to build a closer relationship with him, not to feed his "fragile ego". He wants people to choose to believe in him so that we're not an army of robots metaphorically programmed to believe in his existence.

I will now ask this in a form of a question: Are you asking these questions to find answers or asking these questions to feel smart while not listening to responses? I hope that you comment on this question especially so because then it determines my dedication to this argument.

Just because people don't act like a Christian doesn't mean they aren't. When I see this I get mad too.

One would think that YOU would be the 15-year-old and I would be the one who's over 40 based on the way we act. Please grow up and be more mature. I'm not ordering you what to do but rather requesting as I want both sides to be as professional about this as possible.

Just remember that I do not have all the answers, nor do you
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

If its one thing I learned though college, and let this be a life-lesson to you before you hit that level so something sneaky doesn"t happen to you the way it did to me, is ALWAYS check the bottom before the top. And its a very good thing I did because no one has all the answers. And since no one does, the question must be asked, "why believe?" Why believe in something that only comes from a book that is filled with thousands of supermassive hypocritical contradictions and inconsistencies that since this god"s inception no one, and I do mean no one can even prove exists? There"s 0 tests, declarations or demonstrations that can be shown that can prove that this god exists. So the only thing that is left is utter gullibility with 0 that is tangible.

Well jesus was clearly insane and rather than me taking up much needed character space, this video is a nice neat provider as to the why nin which lists A LOT more than I did. http://www.youtube.com... - Video 1. Why Does Every Intelligent christian disobey jesus?.
And I did provide verses clearly showing this in RD1 where he orders you to get rid of your families, get rid of your possessions in which no sane person would ---ever--- do and then FOLLOW him? Where? And to what? And without a single shred of proof as to his existence in today"s world. Where would you meet him? Which airline would you hop off of and say "Hey jesus, I"m here, show me the way." Now of there"s severe abuse in the family, then that"s another story. But then again, if this god character who is supposed to be oh so loving, in which he clearly isn"t, not by any means as he truly hates children (I didn"t have the characters to show you in the previous RD) as a prime example so here you go LM4: 9-11, MT 10:37, MT 2:16, JG 21:10, 2 SAM 12:11-14 which is truly sick and disgusting, DT 2:34, NU 31: 17-18, LV 26: 21-22, 1 SAM 15:3, HS 13:16, 2 KS 15:16, EZ 9: 5-7, HS 9: 11-16, EX 12: 29-30, IS 13: 15-18, MT 2:16, (EX 21:17, LV 20:9, MK 7:10, MT 15:4, MT 10:21), JG 11: 30-33, PS 137: 8-9, 2 KS 6: 28-29, DT 21: 18-21, DT 32:25, DT 2: 32-34, DT 3: 3-6, JG 19: 24-29, EX 12:29, 2 HS 2: 23-24, LV 26:29, JM 11: 22-23, JM 19: 7-9, JM 51: 22-26, 2 KS 8: 9-15,LM 2: 20-22, RV 2: 18-23 he knowingly creates children in the first place to be abused which is truly diseased sick and disgusting.

"There are many things that people can't understand that only God can." And you automatically assume that your god exists when you shouldn"t do that especially when you have no proof for it.
"You're also no expert on atheism," Oh but I am and so are all atheists. All atheism is, is the very dictionary definition(s) of Atheism 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God. 2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings. And that all it is. Nothing more. Nothing less. It is only those who are religious that turn atheism into something more. Here"s a very good video to help you and there are a lot of very good videos on atheism.
http://www.youtube.com... - Video 2. Reasons for accepting atheism
"for if you were, you would know exactly why and how the Big Bang happened and how it created everything." 100% false. In fact ALL good scientists who are atheists say "I don"t know". Because nobody does know. And perhaps nobody ever will know. But those words of "I don"t know" are true terrorists words to a theist, because dare the christian god be imperfect? Of course not.
Until god is proved, and even if he is proved, there"s no reason why I or anybody should accept him because of his true hatred and evil. He"s freely admitted to having evil, anger, wrath, vengeance, rage, fury, jealousy. Jealousy? From a supreme deity? Jealousy is nothing more than anger as disguised fear. And even worse is this supposed god gave all of those emotions to man so in turn man could learn to hate. Great going god. Great going you for worshiping him and all others with at least 1 billion dead all in his supposed good name. What"s wrong with peace, harmony, love, care, kindness, etc etc etc in which has ---never--- occurred since this god"s inception? Only hate and evil.

"I didn't know 100% of it like everyone else. I got an A, not an "instant F"." And what did I say? You unlike nearly 100% of those that I have talked with here on debate.org have most certainly have presented rock solid evidence for why you got that A. But in truth I really hate it when teachers do that because nobody knows what the author thinks or knows except for the author. I dropped out of my English class long before the finals, but I heard from friends that the teacher said for the final "describe what the author meant", and in truth wow, I would have instantly stated and my final would have been over in a hurry" "There"s no way that I can know what the author meant, unless he left some notes on exactly what he meant. And since you did not inform us of this, I can only take a guess at what the author meant. That would be unfair to the author as I do not wish to misinterpret what he was "truly trying to say" because he is writing in allegories that I do not understand." Now is 100% know what you are talking about, that most certainly doesn"t mean that you have to spill your 100% guts now does it? That"s, as you said is an impossibility otherwise the bible would be taller than you. And in any debate, why should you spill your 100% of everything? I most certainly don"t at all. I LOVE to be sneaky, especially to lowlifes who are totally uneducated and unintelligent, UNLIKE YOU thankfully, and bait people. And if they are really stupid, dumb and don"t know what in the flying pregnant fetus screw as to what they are squawking about, chances are very good that I will simply abandoned the debate.

Text is the worst form of communication is really an entire other debate all together in which I run frequently but here"s for kick starters with 2 videos to absolutely back it up + a lot more information. I wish I could display some quotes from others. But I"d run out of characters" NOTHING is established in scripture so everybody can get it wrong as there"s been 0 updates in at least 2,000 years. There"s translations upon translations upon translations upon translations upon copies upon copies upon copies upon copies upon dead languages upon dead langanguages with absolutely 0% of a chance to trace it back to the original. And there"s no original in the first place! So absolutely nobody is interpreting correctly. And within those translations and copies throughout the generations, characters and what they have said, especially with its leading characters, namely god and christ, their quotes/ verses have changed over time. Oh really? Who has the right and or knowhow to change ANY of god"s language to update it to whatever they felt like and or to amputate it into ---their--- language? Did they consulte god and or jesus to see if this was OK? Of course not. And more importantly did they get it right as an updated version to what these characters would say in this day and age, or even back then when the translations were updated? 100% certainly not. So once again god if as stated was reasonably intelligent would ---never--- use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible because he would have certainly have foreseen all of these major faults. And here"s the a$$ kicker" since this is all true, why can"t god, if he"s omnipotent, which would prove that he"s a god, why can"t he come on down here and simply talk to us. Now that would be evidence. Text is NOT evidence.
http://www.youtube.com... - Video 3. Christians don't understand the character of God
http://www.youtube.com... - Video 4. The god that christians believe in is amazingly STUPID!!!!

"The Bible was written by people who were being told by God what to write. God was telling them at the time what to write while they were putting down what he was telling them to." Now that"s an excuse and something you don"t even know. "It wasn't by memory." Oh absolutely it was as handed down through the generations especially sing the disciples could not read nor write. Nor could anyone that was close to jesus. It was all memory. And memory is always unreliable.
"Even if it WAS by memory, God would've made it so that they remembered it perfectly as to not screw up what he was saying." And you have proof of this - how?

"Jesus does not hate children." You"d better rephrase that. "Does"? You cannot even prove he ever existed. I can provide an army of videos showing jesus never existed. And certainly one awe inspiring video showing that he never cared for the suffering, in which your god knowingly creates. Oh and btw, I never mentioned jesus hates children. But he doesn"t necessarily pay any attention to them either which is neglect and to be ignored, the worst form of child abuse that there is. He"s only concerned about his overblown blubbering superior ego complex, just like god which is entirely what the bible is all about.
OH YES your jesus HATED children in the bible. "Suffer the little children come unto me" Why is it that ALL christians bring in those ONLY verses. Is that ALL the verses in the bible that YOUR fricken bible has to say about children except for their fricken total annihilation in torturous hideous ways by YOUR god as proved above? Why do children have to SUFFER at all or even bring in the subject of suffering? Again, what is totally wrong with, peace, love, harmony, care, kindness etc etc etc? Suffering is no part of.

I feel for you that you went to private school and that your bible was obviously and blatantly indoctrinated upon and forced upon you as a child which is blatantly wrong. Obviously you should come unto god upon your own free will as everybody is born an atheist, no exceptions, none. But then again if you believe in god, there"s no such a thing as free will.

I'm out of space.
32doni32nido32

Con

You claimed that I should always check the bottom before the top so my most important question is the one that is last. I ask that the last question is what you are sure to answer, as I find it to be one to determine whether or not this debate is a waste of my time.

I should've clarified what I mean by "you're no expert on atheism". What I truly meant was that you do not know everything there is to know about many atheistic theories like the big bang and evolution. Don't misunderstand me; I have no doubt that you know a lot about them, however, a human cannot know EVERYTHING about a topic. I was trying to say that just as I know that you can't prove the Big Bang with evidence, I can't prove God's existence with evidence.
I absolutely love saying "I don't know". Many people, religious or not, are scared of those words however I have no trouble saying them. Failures can lead to successes, but you have to accept the failure and fix it. Many people don't want to accept the fact that they were wrong and resume their lives blissfully ignorant of the topic.

Until the Big Bang is proved, there's no reason why I or anybody should accept it because of its lack of evidence.
Again, hate is a sin which God does not do. He mentions that he has vengeance, rage, and fury against sin, not people. He also says that he is jealous FOR US. He's not jealous or envious of anything shallow but doesn't want us to stray from him and be taken away by sin. Yes, jealousy is anger and disguised fear; God would be angry at the devil for leading us a different way and is fearful of that happening. God gave us emotions because, as I mentioned earlier, he doesn't want us to be an army of robots to mindlessly worship him without a choice. He also didn't just give us anger and fear so that we could hate, but he also gave us happiness and joy so we could be accepting and loving. People aren't going to die for their beliefs if they had doubts that maybe this Jesus character maybe didn't exist. Then their death would mean nothing. It's even said in the Bible that people who die in the name of the Lord earn a special place in heaven for they're sacrifice and demonstration of loyalty.

The purpose of the paper was to broaden understanding and present evidence for something you believed was true. I also hate it when teachers do that as well. The author is the one who wrote it and probably didn't even mean for us to analyze it as much as we had been doing. The only reason I didn't put what you would've put (though believe me, I would've loved to) was because I didn't want to get a failing grade and not pass the class. I had actually written something very similar to what you said on a different essay during my freshman year and the English teacher got really mad at me. I asked him how it wasn't true and he had no answer. Though it was included in my conclusion and the rest of the paper was my theories as to what the author had meant, I was marked off 10 points and haven't included it again since. I also agree with the fact that you shouldn't give 100% effort in a debate like this; there's simply too much to say, and part of it may not lead up to anything.

How do we know that there are no original Bible writings? Where did you find this? And yes, things can easily be lost in translation. Keep that in mind whenever you think that God is saying something that is seemingly evil; maybe that wasn't how it was written originally and was changed during translation. The Bible was translated by people who could understand Hebrew and Greek. People who could understand Greek or Roman and some other language translated it to, let's say, Spanish. They're likely not going to need to ask God what to do as they believe what they are doing is right in the eyes of the Lord, spreading his word so that others may read it. God doesn't come into this world because of sin which is why he sent Jesus to Earth who was said to be both man and God.

I wouldn't necessarily say that what I said about people writing stuff while God told them to was an excuse, but there was no evidence for it. That was an assumption that could be incorrect and I am sorry for that. From what I saw online, the source of who wrote the gospels was unknown and was likely not written by a disciple (especially since they couldn't read or write, as you said). Not quite certain why that part of information is necessary. I also said that God would've made it that if the Bible were written based on memories of what he was saying, he would've made it so that they would remember it perfectly to not make the writer's screw it up. I said this because it was very likely to have happened if they weren't writing it down as God spoke to them.

Not quite sure why you're targeting the existence of Christ in a paragraph that was on the topic of children, but alright. Based on my beliefs, no, I do not need to rephrase what I had said. Jesus DID care about the suffering; he wouldn't have healed the sick and injured if he didn't care about them.
"After all he hates children, and you are a child, so hates you, but then again you haven"t read your bible, in which is the only outlet you have to your god."
"Oh and btw, I never mentioned jesus hates children."
You never claimed that JESUS hated children, but because Jesus is part of God and you claimed that GOD hated children, it's something that's very similar. And no, Jesus did not hate children. In Matthew 18:6 it says: "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." Is Jesus going to tie a millstone around your neck and throw you into the ocean? Of course not! He's simply saying that affecting a child's innocence and pure spirit is one of the worst things someone can do. He also says in Proverbs 19:18: "Discipline your son, for there is hope; do not set your heart on putting him to death." If I hated children, I probably wouldn't be saying that.

There's no need to feel for me going to a private school. If I had went to a public school, the community wouldn't have been nearly as close and I probably would've gone through with ending my life in fifth grade if it weren't for the help of my small, close-knit class and supportive teachers who were willing to take time out of their day to talk to me. I was even able to talk to a few of my classmates' parents who offered help for both me, my sister, and my family. Religion was never forced on me and the school would not kick you out if you didn't believe in God, and there was absolutely no targeting any child for being an atheist that would be tolerated under any circumstance. It was a very open community and extremely loving and accepting. I still keep in contact with all of my 10 classmates that I had throughout the years and we even consider each other brothers and sisters. I wouldn't change ANYTHING about my life no matter what it is.
I agree with you that everyone is born an atheist. What the Christian school did is try to encourage children to become religious and form a relationship with God through positive messages and teachings. If you didn't accept Christ then so be it. It was never forced upon you but rather simply suggested.
Again, God and Jesus don't have a "blubbering superior ego complex". Worshipping and praying is a form of building a closer bond and relationship.

Is there a reason you say " ---never--- "? Just curious.
I also suggest using something like Grammarly, ProWritingAid, WhiteSmoke, or Ginger to help with writing these kinds of debates. It'll make you sound much more professional and even make helpful suggestions on wording things better.
Are you being sarcastic when you're calling me intelligent? If you are, try to avoid sarcasm through typing as it can be easily be taken out of context or simply just thought of as being serious.
Now for a very important question that I really want to be answered:

Are you asking these questions to find answers or asking these questions to feel smart while not listening to responses? I hope that you comment on this question especially so because then it determines my dedication to this argument.
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

If this debate is a waste of your time, leave. I don"t care. I"m not here to please you. If you don"t like what I say, that"s perfectly fine by me. I"ve seen people like you come and go. And believe me, you will go. I"ve been doing this for 42+ years and have talked with roughly 22,000 on this subject. Your god is pure hate and evil. I believe in peace, care, kindness, care, love. Your god in which you cannot even prove exists is nothing of the kind. I probably stated this before but your god could have started with peace, care, kindness, love, harmony AND KEPT IT. Nah he chose hate and evil. Your bible utterly proves it.

"What I truly meant was that you do not know everything there is to know about many atheistic theories" There is no atheistic theory. There"s no book on atheism, There"s no behavior for all atheists on how they should behave, and or what they should think. Now as far as the big bang, and evolution, those are proven facts and you don"t need to be atheists to know that they are. But see, now I 100% know that there"s no possible way that you could have done all that much research into the big bang to not know that. Do you get the National Geographic Channel? There"s a truly great masterpiece 10 episode series taking place right now that you should definitely see that not only describes the big bang, and evolution, but also perfectly describes Gaia Mother Earth - the earth as a living organism which is the oldest known theory and treats all life as life creates life and life destroys life and "nature is earth"s biggest serial killer" in which it is. Life cannot function without death. No I really don"t know a lot about them. That"s because my brain cannot absorb all that much at once. I have to have information in front of me or I forget it. I can only read one paragraph or two at once and then I lose my place and have to retread. But I sure can write and I can read subtitles in a movie. And I love foreign films. Go figure.

"Again, hate is a sin which God does not do." Well your god hates children and you did not even look up the verses as CLEARLY shown to you in the previous round.
"When you start making excuses for atrocities you have removed yourself from ANY valid discussion on morals. When you say "yes the bible says you can own slaves but" well now you"re contradicting yourself because before I was asking if you thought the bible was accurately representing the mind of god, the will of god. You"ve got this conflicted mess of contradictions and you"ve found a way to rationalize them. You"ve gone and looked at them and said "boy that one really sounds bad, BUT that"s what Israel was doing that"s not what god was doing. So let me ask you this" do you believe that there"s an all knowing all powerful fun loving god who has an important message for humanity and he is so completely inept that his best attempts at communicating to people managed to convey the exact opposite message of what you think he meant? Now like are you the one who got it right? And all the people who authored the holy book and got you started that they managed to get it wrong? Is your god such a bumbling buffoon that he cannot state "thou shalt not own somebody as another human being?" or "please don"t rape the people and pillage the villages around you"" and he managed to communicate so poorly that it got written down as "Thou shalt be able to own other people as property and oh by the way go over there and kill everybody kill everything except for the young virgins." Its asinine. You cannot reconcile this." Matt Dillahunty

OK I"m now ending this debate because it so crystal clear that you have not read your bible at all. ALL OF THE VERSES LISTED BELOW ARE PURE HATE AND EVIL AND NOTHING BUT.

Hate: 1. to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry. 2. to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it. verb (used without object), hated, hating. 3. to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility.noun 4. intense dislike; extreme aversion or hostility. 5. the object of extreme aversion or hostility. Adjective 6. noting or relating to acts that are motivated by hatred, prejudice, or intolerance: a hate crime; a hate group; hate mail.

* god hates gays in his bible and wants them stoned to death LV 20:13 proving god hates,is evil and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god hates anyone that blasphemes and wants to put you to death LV 24:16 which is true 100% hate and evil and nothing but and shows that god is nothing but hate and evil.
* god hates anyone that does not believe in him in his bible 2 CHR 15: 12-13, ESPECIALLY if someone worships another god/ idols other than himself, thus wants to kill them DT 13: 9-10 and 17: 2-5 proving god hates, is evil and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god endorses slavery in his bible EX 21 the entire chapter especially 20-21 which is truly sick and disgusting, LV 25:39, LV 25:42, LV 25: 44-46, DT 15: 12-15, DT 23: 14-16, MT 18:25, proving god hates, is evil and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god gets jealous in his bible EX 20: 3-5, EX 34:14, DT 4: 23-24, DT 32: 16-17, DT 5:9, DT 6:15, JH 24:19, PS 79:5, PS 78:58, 2 COR 1:2, proving that he is evil, hates and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god wants you to die in his bible if you break the sabbath EX 31:14, NU 15: 32-36 proving god hates and is evil and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god wants to put you to death in his bible if you commit adultery LV 20:10 proving god hates, is evil and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god has freely admitted in his bible numerous times that he IS evil IS 45:7, 2 SAM 12: 11-14 sick and disgusting, EX 32:14, 1 KS 1 22: 22-23, 2 CR 18:22, JM 19:3, JM 19:15, JM 23:12, AM 3:6, DT 30:15, 2 KS 22:16, JU 9:23, PV 15:3 thus proving that he IS evil which is irrefutable and also proves he hates and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god in his bible knowingly and truly hates children through numerous passages such as LM4: 9-11, MT 10:37, MT 2:16, JG 21:10, 2 SAM 12:11-14 which is truly sick and disgusting, DT 2:34, NU 31: 17-18, LV 26: 21-22, 1 SAM 15:3, HS 13:16, 2 KS 15:16, EZ 9: 5-7, HS 9: 11-16, EX 12: 29-30, IS 13: 15-18, MT 2:16, (EX 21:17, LV 20:9, MK 7:10, MT 15:4, MT 10:21), JG 11: 30-33, PS 137: 8-9, 2 KS 6: 28-29, DT 21: 18-21, DT 32:25, DT 2: 32-34, DT 3: 3-6, JG 19: 24-29, EX 12:29, 2 HS 2: 23-24, LV 26:29, JM 11: 22-23, JM 19: 7-9, JM 51: 22-26, 2 KS 8: 9-15,LM 2: 20-22, RV 2: 18-23 only to name a few proves god hates and is 100% pure evil and 100% proves he cannot be involved with love.
* god hates women in his bible LM 4 9-11 sick and disgusting, HS 13:16 sick and disgusting, JD 21:10, 2 SAM 12 11-14 sick and disgusting, DT 2:34, NU 31 17:18, LV 26 21:22, 1 SAM 15:3, HS 13:16 sick and disgusting, DT 2 32-34, 2 KS 8: 9-15, 2 KS 15:16 sick and disgusting, EZ 9: 5-7, HS 9: 11-16, 2 KS 6: 28-29 sick and disgusting, JD 19: 24-29, LM 2 20-22 sick and disgusting, 1 COR 14:34,1 TY 2:12 proves god hates, is evil and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god loves rape in his bible NU 31: 17-18, 2 SAM 12: 11-18 sick and disgusting, JD 19:24-29, JD 21: 10-24, DT 20: 10-14, DT 22: 28-29, DT 21: 10-14, JD 5:30, EX 21 7-11, ZE 14: 1-2 proving that he is evil, pure evil and nothing but, is filled with hate and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god commits abortions who knows how many times within several verses in his bible, so that means that christians do not follow their god which is extremely hypocritical and contradictory from his bible HS 13:16 sick and disgusting, 2 KS 8: 9-15 sick and disgusting, 2 HS 15:16 sick and disgusting, HS 9: 11-16, and perhaps the biggest acts of abortions were committed in the great flood according to this so-called god of the bible in the great flood (which never happened btw) so who knows how many pregnant mothers died there in his bible thus proving this god to be nothing but pure evil, hate and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god loves yummy cannibalism in his bible LM 2: 20-22, JM 11: 22-23, LV 26:29, 2 KS 6:28-29, LM 4: 9-11, proving this god to be truly sick and completely whacked out thus is evil, hates,and thus cannot be involved with love..
* Indeed god is far far far worse than Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hong Xiuquan, all serial killers, all rapists, all tortures, all pedophiles, all sadomasochists etc etc etc combined. After all god knowingly created them which means that he is ultimately responsible for them. Its either that or god is not a god and lets them off the hook with nothing but a tap on the shoulder for their horrific, disgusting, repugnant crimes and simply god---does---not---care. Now here's some examples of god"s sickened, diseased, abominable atrocities for absolutely no reason at all... the great flood according to the bible (which never happened btw) so who knows what the body count was there? 3,000 EX 32:27-28, 14,700 NU 16:49, 24,002 NU 25: 1-11, 12,000 JOS 8: 1-25, 10,000 JG 1:4, 120,000 JG 8:7-10, 42,000 JG 12:3-6, 1,000 JD 15:14-15, 3,000 JD 16:27-30, 25,101 JD 16:27-30, 1 SAM 4 34,002, 1 SAM 6:19 50,070, 2 SAM 8 65,850, 1 KI 20: 28-29 100,000, 1 KI 20: 30 27,000, KI 19 35 -37 185,000, 2 CHR 13 17-18 500,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, 2 CHR 28:6 120,000, Esther 9:5-18 75,813 etc etc etc Yeah god is really so moral huh? Nope.

"He also says that he is jealous FOR US." Oh really? Tee hee. See now you are p**sing me off. Perhaps you should retreat to your nice cold beddie bye where you came from and truly invent better excuses please from something in which you clearly know absolutely nothing about.
Exodus 34:14 "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:" Sheesh

This is EXACTLY you from two days ago on The Atheist Experience. The call picks up at 56:30. http://www.youtube.com... - Caller invents every excuse there is.

GOOD BYE
32doni32nido32

Con

I don't find this debate to be a waste of my time as I have learned a few things through this experience. No, I do not believe you that I will back down because there's so far been no reason for me to do so.
If you truly believe in peace, care, kindness, 2nd care, and love, then why do you seem so angry and hateful in this debate just as you have been describing God. This is like a case of "you are what you say".

There's no books on atheism? What about "The God Delusion", "The Portable Atheist", "Atheism: A Philosophical Justification", etc.? The Big Bang, Evolution, and even Gravity are all theories. Theories are said to be ideas that are likely true but they are all hypotheses; they're not proven. Otherwise, they wouldn't be considered a theory but rather a fact. I have seen the National Geographic Channel but I will be sure to watch the series about the big bang and evolution. I never said to have done tons of research as on the Big Bang, but now that we are on the topic of my study habits I have looked into it from time to time.
"But I sure can write and I can read subtitles in a movie". You could definitely brush up on your writing, but I can do both as well. It's nothing special.

I DID look up a few of the verses that you gave. I didn't read every single one of them, but a chose a couple to look at and got the basic idea of what you were trying to say.
I don't recall anywhere saying anything about slavery. Where did you get this from? I also don't remember saying anything about the laws of Israel and its laws. I would be glad to talk about this topic, but it's a bit too late in the argument to do so as our next section will be the closing of this discussion. For now, this part of the argument is null and void as I haven't said it.

It's crystal clear that I haven't read my Bible? I have many times at church and at the private school I had mentioned before. I read the verses that you gave me and have read the Bible outside of the debate. Simply because I can't reference every single verse that mentions a topic doesn't mean I haven't read my Bible. As you said, "I have to have information in front of me or I forget it. I can only read one paragraph or two at once and then I lose my place and have to retread [reread]." Though I hate to compare myself to you, I am very much the same way in that sense. I can't memorize everything of the Bible and pull it out randomly when I just suddenly need it from my memory. I'm debating this topic because I don't believe that you are correct, not because I'm uneducated about Christianity and want to go into this argument having no points to make.

I don't need definitions. Thanks, though.

I can not fully explain why verses in the Bible seem hateful and evil. We are not made to fully comprehend all of God and know everything there is to know about everything. There are many examples where he is also loving, however I understand why you have the beliefs that you do.

God doesn't want others to worship what he calls "false idols" as he is the only one who exists. He's not being butt-hurt that the spotlight is not being on him, but rather doesn't want people to worship something that isn't real according to him.

I don't care that I'm pissing you off. Too bad for you.

Bye
Debate Round No. 4
backwardseden

Pro

I am so ever sorry for even thinking for a single second that you were even remotely intelligent and edumacated. I humbly apologize. I hope that you can forgive lil ole me? If not, then that"s your problem. In truth, in no possible way are you intelligent, nor do you have any type of edumacation when it comes to your god, religion and bible. So sure I'll rub it in A LOT and wow do you deserve it. But only on one subject because you know absolutely nothing about it and it hasn"t been previously discussed. All other subjects that have been discussed, well snookums, you lost, simply because you like the typical christian has no evidence to counteract what has been proposed unto you. And you like the typical smug doolittle happy A$$ granny fart typical christian cannot handle a slap to the face of truth if it killed you.

You stated the most truly ignorant, truly arrogant in which shows that you have not read your bible, aloof, dictatorial, oppressive, constraining, psychopathic (in which you have proved what you are) with the statement of "hate is a sin which God does not do" completely shows you outdid yourself, a psychopath, as you are completely void of the ability of""""" drum roll please: expression, thinking, rationalizing, reasoning, using common sense, using logic. But that"s not a surprise because there"s none of that involved within god, the bible or your religion.

It is also blatantly obvious that you did not read ANY of the verses posted to you in RD"s 3 and 4 otherwise you wouldn"t be posting me. Instead you would have realized what a forgery and fraud, just like your christ, in which you cannot even prove your god exists and the true hatred that god and his sidehick christ ahchoo sneezerag spread in which according to YOU hatred is a sin.

So let"s get right into your god"s hatred. And then we"ll indulge and fool around with A LOT more on hatred and sin IN YOUR BIBLE.

But first here"s a simpleton scenario in will which points out how your unresponsive dildo breath elephantine mind is asleep and cannot accept any truth. Sorry. Its point blank correct here in which you cannot refute. According to you, since you follow your bible implicitly and do not question it whatsoever, not for any reason, your god knowingly creates everybody/ everyone for his own greedy little belly button garlic onion beer doll self, which also means that you have no free will in which both you and I already knew that IF you believe in YOUR god, but thankfully I am smart enough and intelligent enough not to, so I have free will whereas you don"t,
* Isaiah 45:12 "12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded."
* Genesis 1:27 "27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
* Ephesians 4:6 "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
* Romans 11:36 "For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen."
" anther drum roll please: and since its more than well proven that YOUR god does indeed create EVERYBODY for his selfish plastic greedy little desires, especially children for rape, torture and sodomizing, and millions per year, THAT my dear lovely friend IS hate in which your teeny tiny little micron brain cannot possibly refute. But nah, I 100% know that you cannot refute it. All you are trying to do is get my brooding turnip blood to boil its gaping hole. Sorry Dr. Henry bull dozer, it didn"t work.

Here"s some more ripped right from the headlines of YOUR bible which proves YOUR god"s hate, thus proving according to you that he sinned"
*Ezekiel 20:25-26 "Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live; 26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD." (taken from "The Secular Web" in which happens to be right "God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws. (This means that God-given laws or commandments are sometimes suspect.)
*Ezekiel 14:9 "And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel." (So its an eye for an eye in god"s eyes huh?)
*1 Kings 22:23 "Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee." (So if the lard is doing this to his prophets, then WHY NOT to his non prophets so all of man can lie - just as god wants in his childish games?)
All 3 of those verses are pure hate in which you cannot refute. Thus they prove that YOUR GOD HATES. Thus according to YOU, so your god has sinned.

Matt Dillahunty "What is sin and why should I care about it? (That"s a very good question. I don"t give a damn about sin. And that"s because I am not stupid enough nor ignorant enough to believe in a selfish self centered god so I have to look over my should every second of every day and worry about something that is completely meaningless such as sin) I understand why I should live an ethical life and treating people in certain ways, we have secular foundations for moral systems. But sin from the christian perspective is a crime against god or god"s nature itself - right? If god makes the rules and you violate it, that"s a sin. Well what if god makes a rule that you should kill your child, does that make it good? Caller " Yeah that"s where I do things that are not aligned in what the bible says." Matt "Yeah. But are they good things? Do you have good reasons to have that the things you are doing are not immoral? Like do you have an example? Like don"t confess to a crime or anything. For example the bible is opposed to homosexuality. Do you think there"s something immoral about those who are homosexuals?" Caller "Uh there"s none that I can think of." Matt "Yeah me neither. And so if the bible"s opposed to it add the bible is the word of god, and the Koran is opposed to it as well and the Koran is supposed to be the word of god as well, and there are two holy books and let them argue over who god is and what god thinks and until they can come up with a sound secular justification for homosexualiy being immoral then I don"t need to pay their views any money because its just an opinion at that point."

Sin is hypocritical and contradictory in your bible. Thus sin does not exist.
Does every man sin? Yes. There is no man who does not sin (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810)No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God. Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God.. (I John 5:1). We should be called children of God; and so we are (I John 3: 1). He who loves is born of God (I John 4:7). No one born of God commits sin; for Gods nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God (I John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (I John 1:8)

Sin? Lets use Homosexuality as an example as christians call it a sin? Really? According to what? The bible doesn"t say anywhere in the bible that its a "sin". Try harder. Nor does the bible say anything at all against gay marriages AGAIN. And the words "gay" and "homosexual were not inserted into your bible until 1946. So try harder. The biggest sin is to go against god. Now if god were in the slightest bit genuine, in which we all know better that he's not, he---couldn't---care---less. Its like you using a bad word when you were young and your mother washing your mouth out with soap. Big whoop. But god has this frail fragile thing called an "ego" which is sandblasted all across the bible which means he's imperfect. And since he's imperfect it means he should not be bowed down to nor idolized, nor worshiped.
But the biggest sin there could possibly be - ever - of all time..................... since I will not believe in god, I am going to be denied a place in heaven by that simple little gesture. Well goodie for me, all the more reason for me to - never - believe in the monstrosity that is YOUR god, not mine.

What value do you place on sin, or if its not your view, it"s the bible"s. Let"s look at some examples... On a 1 to 10 scale...
*Homosexuality which has never done you any harm to you must = a 10
*no other gods before me must also = a 10
*shall not make for yourself a graven image must also = a 10
*take the name of the lord your god in vain must also = a 10
*remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy must also = a 10
*god ensues slavery and the beating of slaves so that must = a 10
*god loves raped women so that must = a 10
*god can justify his many genocides which would mean the killing of innocent babies, children and pregnant mothers which is extremely, excessively, unreasonably, and is foolishly contradictory and hypocritical = a 10
*god knowingly hates children = a 10

Raping, beating and torturing a child must = a 1 because children do not have a voice in the bible, to SCREAM. They get to say nothing. Their mouths are glued shut.
The abuser who is raping, beating and torturing a child must also = a 1 because there's no relevance into doing harm to a child in the bible.
In no way does god believe harmony, love, care for each other because otherwise peace would have already been achieved = a 1

If you do not see the horrific details behind YOUR religion, god and bible, and its fatalistic flaws and how valueless they are, then you are completely gone into another non existent universe. But then again, you like the typical christian, have NOT even picked up your bible and read past page 1. That is so obvious within the hate you have for me. Bye.
32doni32nido32

Con

I'm actually still taking your advice and began reading at the bottom. :)

I don't really understand why you think I hate you. I don't at all; you've taught me something in this experience and I'm thankful for that. The truth of the matter is that I don't really care about you (not to be rude). You shouldn't care about me either; we're both people on the Internet who will likely never meet each other in real life. The closest thing I said to being hateful was "I don't care that I'm pissing you off. Too bad for you." This is a debate; it doesn't matter what your emotions are or what you feel. Because we are both debating on things that have not been scientifically proven, it depends on our beliefs to determine who has won and who has lost. I know people who think that I have won this debate and also I'm certain that others believe that you won.
If anything, YOU have been the hateful one in this argument.

I've already said before that assuming things about the person you're debating against isn't the best idea as you could be incorrect. Especially when you're just plain wrong despite the things I've told you about me going to a private school from 1st-8th grade. In fact, I'm typing this on the school computer that I have from high school. I can forgive you for believing in thinking I had logical intelligence, but keep in mind there's more than just that. There are many other types of intelligence and I can definitely wish you good luck in attempting to debate linguistic intelligence based on the way you speak.
A majority of my free time consists of composing music, practicing an assortment of instruments, reading, writing interesting stories, and studying interesting topics like history, astronomy, chemistry, theories, and languages. Yup. No education at all. Not quite sure why my "lack of 'edumacation'" deserves someone like You to "rub it in A LOT" because I "deserve it". Besides, even if I did have a lack of education, I'm only 15 and have 2 more years of high school and 8 years of college.

I DID read some of the verses you told me to. There are also countless other verses I can give you about God's love but I know that you would say something along the lines of
"well there"s these verses wich prove god is pure eviiillll and wicked and terrible and nothing else so therefour i win haha."
It's like talking to a brick wall.
Besides, I can't to respond to every single one of those verses and watch every single one of those videos (which I can't watch all the way through; busy schedule and better things to spend time on) without using up all my space. And you would just refuse it and say something like my counterarguments are dumb, I have no intelligence and shouldn't be arguing with you because you're practically Einstein, and I obviously clearly don't have an education and don't read the Bible. And none of those things are counterarguments to my conterarguments. It would be one huge waste of time.

Bringing up homosexuality this late into the argument when it's the final round is incredibly foolish. What do you hope to settle by saying it? I myself never even said ANYTHING about the LGBTQ+ community and how it's sinful. Don't make it seem like I did.

Misquoting me is one of the most desperate, despicable attempts I have ever seen of trying to win an argument. The mere idea of someone who's been debating for this long and has the years of experience that you say you do is completely and utterly ludicrous. Putting it into action is one of the worst things you could possibly do in a debate and even have the mere IDEA of victory. There is absolutely no way you have won this. I'm not even certain there IS anything to win as this is a debate on things we cannot prove.

I've given you evidence from the Bible, but you keep on saying that I'm not providing any evidence for it. You keep on USING the BIble as part of your argument, so I'm using it as well.

Did I offend you by saying that I don't care that you're pissed off? :( Sorry "snookums".
I give my respect to those who deserve it.

Very creative insults! :D However just because they're creative doesn't mean they're effective. Try harder next time.

I have read my Bible, and if you can only give one example (of which doesn't affect the argument) that's not very strong.

What are you saying? ALL Christians sin! A large majority recognize that! Where did you get the idea that we don't think we sin? That's ridiculous. We believe that Jesus took our sins upon him by dying on the cross, not that we're pure little angels

You say God has a big ego (in which he doesn't). What about you? You don't recognize your mistakes at all! You never said you were wrong once! Not once! I proved you wrong that there ARE books written about the Big Bang and atheism? Well, guess you're just going to skip over that one... You PURPOSELY MISQUOTED ME? Can't recognize that...your ego is too high. Oh well...
You say that CHRISTIANS have a hard time saying "I'm wrong". The level of hypocrisy in this statement is off the charts and is completely ridiculous for someone like you to say.

"And you like the typical smug doolittle happy A$$ granny fart typical christian cannot handle a slap to the face of truth if it killed you."
Other than being Christian, seems to go both ways, don't you think?

I see many "evils" as you seem to call them in the Bible (a majority being in the old testament). Those applied Israel way back in B.C. and most don't apply today. In fact, in those days, the laws God made were light and less severe than many of those that were not established by him (other places would cruelly torture a person until they died). That's not a counterargument to God being perfect, I understand that, but I wanted to put that on the table for you to consider; he didn't want people to go through more pain than was necessary.

But seriously, get Grammarly or something like that.

Keep in mind that the truth hurts. You need to learn and change what you do wrong to actually achieve greatness. Debating topics that you can't even prove with rock-solid evidence for 42 years is one of the biggest waste of times of heard. I'm doing this for the experience and for learning more information (haven't gotten nearly as much as I had hoped for, though). You, on the other hand, are doing this to be rude, pretend you're smart, and feed your fragile ego.

It seems fairly evident (based on your...idiosyncracies...to put it nicely) that, despite your age, you haven't had a lot of life experience. You have definitely not been mature in this argument in any way. Meet people who know more than you (shouldn't be too hard). You should be acting WAY more mature than me. And I still have 10 more years to grow and mature...hope to see you then while you'll still be the same person...

There's no way you've done this 42 years...at least it seems like it (not saying it as fact). Have you ever heard of Jaclyn Glenn? She's an incredibly smart atheist who is ridiculously talented. I suggest watching her and getting better arguments.

SImply because we don't see eye to eye doesn't mean you have to be so rude throughout this whole entire thing. Of course, some insults here and there are fine but once it gets to be so incredibly CHILDISH it makes you seem that you're incredibly unintelligent.
Act the age you claim to be.

Anyways, thanks for the entertainment!
Bye. :D
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Dinis 3 years ago
Dinis
Taking things out of context further disproves your point.
Posted by Klove 3 years ago
Klove
Okay, look, God is the Messiah, he formed you in the womb, knew your name, made the earth, heavens, sky. I see where somethings seem bad, or wrong, I get it. Let me shed some light on a couple of things you said. One, God DOES NOT HATE!!! He says to leave people, or places we love sometimes, cause he has something BETTER, that we can't even IMAGINE, in store! God loves unconditionally! We CAN prove that God exists btw. Scientist can even prove there was an intelligent designer. The world DID not come to be by an explosion, and WE DID NOOOOTTTT Come from apes to humans!!!! It is proven, that God, does to, exists! He made man from the sand, and made women from the man's rib. There are so many tweaks for things that scientists have proven the big bang could not do. There is an intelligent designer who planned the world to be as it is today. Also, Excuse me, but, I have a bible, I read it, I go to church, and I get the word. I KNOW IT! So how bout this, you can be a rude person about this, or you can be mature for your age and let people help you. If you don't let people help, you loose these debates automatically. You MAY NOT THINK, I know what I'm talking about, but I don't care. I am 15 yes, but I know and love my Heavenly Father Jesus Christ! Jesus has his arms open wide for us. He's our Sheppard. "His rode and his staff comfort me." He guides us like a good Sheppard. It says, "For GOD SO LOVED the WORLD, that he GAVE his ONE AND ONLY son, that WHOMEVER, Believes in him, SHALL NOT, persish, but have EVERLASTING LIFE!!!!" Why would God make us, and the world, and lead us into his ways, if he did not love us. Why then would he sacrifice himself, if he did not love us!?? That PROVES his love!!! He would be dying for nothing otherwise. That makes no sense. He DIED for us, the people he loves! Don't let Satan whisper in your ear and blind you from truth! REBUKE HIM!!! "GET BACK FROM ME SATAN, IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!!!"
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@jackgilbert - No he votes that way in a truly childish attempt to p**s me off and for no other reason. So I eliminate him. I don't have the time nor the effort for valueless children.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
He only votes against you because of your conduct.
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 3 years ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
And still you beat that drum of apathy and you still hide behind a wall of contempt. When are you going to lower your great wall of text and play with me on the battlefield of converse as nothing has changed with your debate settings? Chicken Little, Henny Penny, the sky is falling?

I am calling you out Back Wards Eden. Or has the cat got your tongue?
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@asta - Typical moron teeny bopper question that can't even take the time to examine someone's profile. Of course I'm and atheist, the correct way to be as YOUR god truly hates children, if you were to have read your bible, in which you clearly haven't, which means he hates you, but then again you cannot even prove your god exists.
I ban dsjpk5 because he is truly a child that follows me around wherever I go, which is rather creepy as he has stalks me and continues to do as such, and has voted the exact same way, no matter what, on every single one of my debates. So I simply put a stop to his childness in the voting department on my debates.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
Why are you banning dsjpk5?

Are you an Atheist or Jewish?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Leaning 3 years ago
Leaning
backwardseden32doni32nido32Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro loses conduct for consistently bad and insulting conduct, particularly in the later rounds. Pro has MANY lines from the Bible unfortunately they are taken out of context in a multitude. If Pro focused on quality rather than quality as well as attempting to be persuasive rather than overbearing he could make a better argument. Pro ignores or dismisses any arguments against his own and frequently attacks the character of his opponent instead. Because I do not want to nitpick everything in this long and difficult to read debate arguments is a tie, though I feel personal that Con won. If you feel my vote was flawed, let me know how and I'll try to do better next time. If you feel the vote was unfair, let me know and I'll post the debate on the Voting Thread to encourage others to vote.

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