The Instigator
urfav.AX
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Mingodalia
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

kids who finish High school deserve free post secondary education

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Mingodalia
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/16/2018 Category: Education
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,023 times Debate No: 110814
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

urfav.AX

Pro

they do. argue that
Mingodalia

Con

-Seperation of church and state-

Making kids go to liberal colleges at this point is the equivalent of making kids go to church to learn about God, Jesus, and some Christian version of morality. It has become a religion. They've literally brainwashed men into thinking they are women and women into thinking they are men, when neither is true. They have brainwashed them into thinking safe spaces magically exist and to become dependent on therapy dogs. Sorry, I don't want my kids exposed to a religion as backwards as that.

-Pay for it-

We are 20 trillion dollars in debt. We can't find the funds for our society now, much less if we add this burden on top of it.

-Better educations-

Conservatives literally do not have the degrees that liberals have, yet make more money. Why waste your time on an education that teaches you to be poorer? Why waste time on something that won't teach you job skills or life skills? Why not go ahead and make some money?

-Less qualified professors-

Without the high tuition, these institutions couldn't afford the best teachers, so you'd get an even worse education than I had demonstrated above. What great educator would want to work for peanuts? None would.

-Saturation-

Everyone would go to Medical or Law school, and that market would be flooded. The other markets would be unable to find workers. That in turn would mean doctors would get paid less, and we would now not be able to get the best doctors.
Debate Round No. 1
urfav.AX

Pro

Pros of free college believe that it would benefit the entire nation, not just the individual students who take advantage of it. They see it as both a private and public benefit. After all, more and more of today's jobs are knowledge-based or require advanced technical skills. So a better-educated workforce would help fill many of the skills gaps that prevent America's economy from growing faster.
Plus, since more people would be able to attain employer-desired credentials, more people would be able to take the good-paying jobs that often go unfilled. And that could result in billions of additional dollars circulating throughout the economy since people tend to spend more money when they have higher incomes and little or no debt. It could also mean that the government would take in a lot of extra tax revenues, which could go a long way toward paying for free public colleges.
But the issue of why college should be free isn't just an economic one. It's also a moral and philosophical one. Do we want every American, regardless of social standing, to have an equal opportunity to reach his or her potential? That's what this country is supposed to be about, yet social mobility has been eroding for the poor and middle class. And without easy and affordable access to quality higher education for everyone, the collective intelligence and goodwill of the nation could also erode. America might become even more socially divided.
Ultimately, many people believe that a college-level education should be an absolute right, so long as you have the ability to benefit from it. Here are some of the other commonly cited reasons why college should be free:
There might be a lot fewer Americans who need to seek other forms of public assistance.

People would have more freedom to contribute their talents, try new ideas, and pursue the lives they want if they didn't have to start off in debt or stay stuck in a low-wage job. That could lead to happier people. And happier people could lead to a happier, more prosperous nation as a whole.

A better-educated population could result in smarter decision-making at every level of society, which could lead to faster progress in solving our most difficult, collective challenges.

Students would be able to focus more on their studies rather than worrying about how to scrape together enough funds for each upcoming school term. As a result, more of them might graduate on time, ready to take on important jobs in their communities.

Many of America's top-performing high school students never apply to the most challenging colleges and universities even though they have the ability to succeed at them. They often come from minority and low-income households and end up pursuing more affordable, less-selective schools instead. And that helps create a widening gap between wealthier families and those that are less affluent.

Although it benefits many students, the nation's existing financial aid system currently fails to provide an equal opportunity to every qualified American.

Graduating with high amounts of student loan debt has been shown to reduce a person's chances of owning a home, getting married, having children, and accumulating wealth.
Mingodalia

Con

I will address my opponent's points in four sections.

1)America might become more socially divided.

Many people claim that college itself has helped socially divide the country.

a)Many liberal colleges have brainwashed kids that everyone is racist, everything is socially unjust, and literally taught otherwise normal kids to become fart leftwing extremists.

https://www.theblaze.com...

https://www.amazon.com...

b)Student debt that can never be paid off in a lifetime divides us socially. If you have $100,000 in student debt, you fall to the bottom of that divide rather quickly and never dig out. The same people dependent on this money are the ones telling you how evil the Capitalism system is and are feigning and preaching free college. Yeah right. That's a warning sign.

2)Less Americans will need public assistance.

I disagree with this assessment because I think that there will be the same amount of jobs no matter how many people go to college. It will just flood those job markets with qualified workers who can't get jobs in those fields due to everyone being qualified. It might cause more joblessness.

Pay for these jobs would also go down. Why? Because qualified workers would now be a dime a dozen. You could find them anywhere. What drives pay up in a career path is the fact that finding good, qualified workers in that career is hard.

3)Most good students don't apply for loans because of low income.

Here are links about to get free grants for college and ways to pay absolutely nothing for tuition.

http://money.cnn.com...

http://www.collegescholarships.org...

https://studentaid.ed.gov...

4)Student Loan Debt-

This might be a great argument to be crystal clear on what loans you do or do not take for college in the current atmosphere.

I argue that if you had been working those 4-10 years of college at any job, you could get ahead by 4-10 years worth of savings and offset or even accumulate more than if you had gone to college to get a job that now everyone and their dog is qualified for.
Debate Round No. 2
urfav.AX

Pro

I understand my opponent's opinions but there seem to be way more pros to this factor than cons. Post-secondary education can really enhance a person's life and allow more opportunities. Often some of the hardest workers are not given these opportunities because they are unable to afford it. The following are more reasons why I believe post-secondary education should be free.

1.Positive externalities of higher education. Generally, university education does offer some external benefits to society. Higher education leads to a more educated and productive workforce. Countries with high rates of university education generally have higher levels of innovation and productivity growth. Therefore, there is a justification for the government subsidizing higher education.

2.Equality. There is also a powerful argument that university education should be free to ensure equality of opportunity. If students have to pay for university education, this may dissuade them. In theory, students could take out loans or work part-time, but this may be sufficient to discourage students from studying and instead may enter the job market earlier.

3.Increased specialization of work. The global economy has forced countries, such as the UK to specialize in higher tech and higher value-added products and services. The UK"s biggest export industries include pharmaceuticals, organic chemicals, optical and surgical instruments, and nuclear technology (see: what does the UK produce?). Therefore, there is a greater need for skilled graduates who can contribute to these high-tech industries.

4.Education is a merit good. One characteristic of a merit good is that people may underestimate the benefits of studying and undervalue higher education. Government provision can encourage people to study.
Non-economic benefits of education. It is tempting to think of university education in purely monetary terms. But graduates can also gain skills and awareness of civic institutions which offer intangible benefits to society.
Mingodalia

Con

Positive externalities of higher education. Generally, university education does offer some external benefits to society. Higher education leads to a more educated and productive workforce. Countries with high rates of university education generally have higher levels of innovation and productivity growth. Therefore, there is a justification for the government subsidizing higher education.

The United States is by far and away the biggest economy in the world. Out of Western countries, it is also by far and away the greatest producer.

It is also a false equivalency to compare small European countries to a giant country. Controlling small population systems and funding them is much easier than controlling a mega-multicultural country of massive size.

Education is a merit good. One characteristic of a merit good is that people may underestimate the benefits of studying and undervalue higher education.

No one is obligated to provide people a free product, much less one of quality.

POINTS

The proposition of Pro ignores the domino effect. What happens to everything else when you make education free?

Everyone is qualified

When everyone is highly qualified, wages drop through the floor. Your qualifications can be found in anyone. Are you going to deliver babies for $17,000 a year? Of course you are if we hire you. You're lucky to have a job at all seeing everyone is qualified. Now go do surgery.

Education Quality drops

Professors get paid nothing now because everyone is qualified to be a professor. You have a professor in poverty, as you attempt to get a minimum wage job that everyone is qualified to do.

No one pays for college, so now we can't afford the tools needed to teach you well. Better learn to love reading books from 1984. That's all the school could afford.

Which college has to take you dilemma

Can you go to a regional college? Well you wanted to go to Harvard for the most elite education. Guess what? It's booked to capacity because college is free. You cool with Springfield College for Crap Weasels? I hope so. It's the only place with room for you.

And guess what? Professors and school administrators have certain predjudices. I hope you don't match any of them, otherwise they'll pack the place with their favorite group, race, or their friends' kids, despite having horrible grades in highschool. You had good grades in highschool? So what? College is free. Community College of the Ozarks is all that is open for you.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Mingodalia 3 years ago
Mingodalia
Did he? That little wanker...
Posted by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
Plagiarize his all of his arguments.
Posted by Mingodalia 3 years ago
Mingodalia
Lol. What did pro do that you didn't like?
Posted by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
Shame on you, Pro.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Outplayz 3 years ago
Outplayz
urfav.AXMingodaliaTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I really liked the saturation point that con made which pro didn't refute. Although pro had some good arguments such as a smarter population equals better decision making but i don't think that is enough, nor would it be very much different than how it already is. Kids grow into adults and get smarter as they grow... how much free college would effect that is negligible. Therefore, i am going with con on this one as she had the stronger arguments against.

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