The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
emsiblook
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

the biblical god knowingly hates children

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
emsiblook
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/6/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 627 times Debate No: 120205
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (14)
Votes (1)

 

backwardseden

Pro

A child, Age 6 for example who has stage 4 cancer, Does not know what is happening to him/ her. Their cries are not heard, That they are in constant pain unless they are given sedatives/ painkillers, That they are terrified, That they are in an unfamiliar place (a hospital of some kind as an example), And are not home unless it is special circumstance, That they really do not understand what suffering is, But those around them probably do, Etc.
Oh and btw, YOUR christian god put children in that position of suffering to begin with which is 100% pure evil and hate. YOUR christian god absolutely loves to watch children knowingly suffer, Otherwise he would not create their situations for them to suffer.
Oh btw, I know that you know that you cannot contemplate suffering at all. Your precious jesus went through 17 hours, Tops, Of suffering. Some children go through decades of suffering. Your precious jesus had it easy.

Now please do tell me what a child can possibly learn from suffering? If you"ve answered "nothing", You"ve answered correctly.

god knowingly creates children to be raped, Beaten and tortured at the hands of their abusers. . . Sometimes for decades. An example is daddy is sticking in his you know what inside of his daughter age 5 while punching her in the face twice per week for 15 years. To knowingly create children to suffer is 100% pure evil and hate at its finest. You can not get more evil than that with all the hate if you wanted to.

Please DO NOT bring in the "Free Will" argument either because children DO NOT have the Free Will to escape from these monsters who commit these horrific acts. God creates these children to suffer as well as these monsters to commit their unspeakable crimes to begin with. God must also love it, Otherwise he would create these horrific events.

Please DO NOT invent the excuse that "its not god's fault". Well yeah it is. Otherwise, God is NOT in control of everything, Nor is he all knowing nor is he all powerful. Nor is god omnipotent. Nor is god perfect. Nor does god care enough to not create these horrific acts. However, And think about this. . . Since god ultimately creates everybody and everything, He is ultimately responsible for everybody and everything. So once again, You have no free will and especially neither do children.

The worst of the absolute worst is god is giving a greater value, A greater meaning to these monsters to commit these horrific acts while these children suffer at the hands of these savages who have no free will to SCREAM at the top of their lungs and thus getaway in which they cannot do. God IS hate and evil. Pure and simple. So invent better excuses please. Yep invent the excuse that I "hate" when it was just proven that YOUR god hates and nothing but. AND GOD MUST HAVE GIVEN THAT HATE TO ME AND ALL OF MANKIND. And yes, Absolutely 100% that includes YOU by gum! Wow. What a loving god huh? Pathetic, But the typical smug christian ideal that doesn't work - ever - excuse on your part.

In other words, God truly hates children which is a truly "duh" situation. The bible proves this time and time again with verse after verse which will be proven partly here and in further rounds.

Also notice how children do not get to say but perhaps 5 sentences, If that in the bible? Its like having your mouth glued shut for your entire childhood. That's the worst form of child abuse there is - to be neglected and ignored. The bible does it so well. Sure god and jesus have stated that they love children or whatever, But that's not the same thing. Not by a long shot. How would you like it if someone spoke for you for your entire childhood and you could not say a single word on your behalf? Well, You'd naturally hate it. Also the bible is surely incomplete because there are no voices of children, There are no children talking or singing, Or voices of them playing when it is most assuredly required. How would you like it if you as an adult, Who worked so hard for your children, As well you should, And they should always be the center of your life, Were to find out that they were left out of your life? Well, Once again you'd naturally hate it. That's exactly what the bible and god has done in leaving children completely out of "their" most supposed sacred book of history that is supposed to engulf everything that was known within their supposed surroundings up until that special moment in time, And yet it completely ignores and neglects children. Well good job for the men who wrote the bible. Not---toooo---bright.

RULES:
Prove that children do NOT deserve to be treated like a pile of manure spread according to god and the bible AND that god was just AND IS just in treating children like discarded waste as proved throughout time.

dsjpk5 and timmyjames are both disqualified from voting procedures.
emsiblook

Con

I don't see God in the sense that a lot of modern people have taken him to be. I believe in the biblical god in the sense that he is our 'call to higher being', Which is what I believe God was intended to represent in the Bible and indeed all the religious texts. How do we know I'm right, What if he /was/ intended to be this sky daddy with a beard?

For one thing, The Jews believed you shouldn't even utter God's name because it would define too tightly what he is.

So I see 'him' or it, As the ideal, The thing we strive to be. He is what gives our lives meaning. I see heaven and hell in the sense that heaven is the good we experience in life, Hell is the opposite, Its the unbearable suffering.

If we didn't have suffering, There would be no reason to work to avoid the suffering. There would be no meaning.

You can see suffering in two ways: tragedy and evil.

Tragedy is suffering that occurs as a precondition to existence. It's something we can't help. Like our looks, The place we were born, The ways in which we're oppressed.

Evil is something different. Evil is suffering created by man, With the intent of making the existing conditions of life even less bearable than they are. If we have enough evil in the world, That's hell.

Cancer in children isn't evil, It's an unfortunate natural event that occurs.
But the reason we have it is so that we can learn to bear our burden and be a good person, To be the most useful person at that child's funeral. That's where meaning comes from. From not making the suffering worse.

You might think, What's even the point of being that useful person? And the people who have followed that path have ruined not only their own life, But also the lives of everyone they're networked with.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

I really can't stand it when people can't do something as wide and as vast as simpleton READING and COMPREHENDING. Is that so hard? Is that so difficult? What you stated has 0% of NOTHING to do with the god of the bible as what was stated in RD1. You went off into who knows where?
Did you bother to read the comments in the comments section? Why don't you read them and what others have said.
Also this supposed god, If proven to be true, In which case nobody ever has, Is responsible for cancer, Smallpox, Influenza, The bubonic plague, Etc etc etc for creating it in every single person. That's evil. That's hate. This supposed god would also be responsible for earthquakes, Volcanos, Tornados, Drought, Flooding etc etc etc. HE'S GOD!
But its children that is the main concern. You can come up with all the excuses you want. There is no excuse, None, For allowing children, AND creating situations for children to deliberately cause suffering and pain.
Again, The question. . . What can children possibly learn from suffering? If you've answered nothing, You've answered correctly.

"But the reason we have it is so that we can learn to bear our burden and be a good person, " Sorry, That excuse doesn't wash. All it is, Is an excuse, Something I don't tolerate. You truly have no idea, And its point blank obvious, What true suffering is. Not even close.
Hmmm the worst. . . Here's your god at work. . . A child raped so bad that her vagina turned into her a$$. I can't even contemplate that. Neither can you. And I know what suffering is. You don't. So don't even try to lecture someone is 2x your age and then some.

"If we didn't have suffering, There would be no reason to work to avoid the suffering. There would be no meaning. " That's ridiculous if you have god who doesn't have to create suffering. The Inca, Aborigines, Gaia Mother Earth, Nearly all native American Indian tribes before the white man christian sweaty pigs wiped them out, Buddhists, Hindu's don't believe in suffering and its not taught anywhere near, Its not even a close call as to what christianity does. Christianity teaches the beginning of suffering. Buddhism teaches the end of suffering. Hmmm, I wonder which is better?

Also something you don't get is since christianity's inception is that not for any length of time, Not ever, Not anywhere has peace reigned. Something to think about.

Now this debate is about the god of the bible and how he hates children. So please address this subject as was CLEARLY DONE in RD1 and will also be done below.

Now DDO does not allow me to post verses for children being abused by the god in the bible. So here's a few websites. . .
https://www. Kingjamesbibleonline. Org/Bible-Verses-About-Child-Abuse/
https://bible. Knowing-jesus. Com/topics/Bad-Children
https://www. Openbible. Info/topics/abortion (some of these verses are REAL cute)
emsiblook

Con

The God I describe in my argument IS the god of the Bible. Two billion people are Christian. It is the largest religion in the world and the root of our culture. Before we developed the intellectual capacity to understand human behaviour through scientific principles, 350 million years ago, We expressed our tendencies as humans through images, And eventually, Words. This led to stories, Like the Bible. The Bible was an attempt to create a vision of the ideal, Aka God, Aka everything that has helped us evolve to become the only animal with a sense of morality. It helps us to understand ourselves.

"this supposed god, If proven to be true, In which case nobody ever has, Is responsible for cancer, Smallpox, Influenza, The bubonic plague, Etc etc etc for creating it in every single person. That's evil. That's hate. This supposed god would also be responsible for earthquakes, Volcanos, Tornados, Drought, Flooding etc etc etc. HE'S GOD! "
It's hard to explain this to you as you're already on the assumption that God is a man with a beard in the sky who controls everything. But as I said before, God is the symbolism of what we see as society's IDEAL. The IDEAL can pay attention (all-seeing), Is proficient in everything (all-powerful) and has wisdom (all-knowing), But also has the ability to control these abilities for the sake of harmony (all-loving). These are things we all aspire to be, And these are things that the Bible tries to get across to us. Look at any Bible verse with these glasses and you'll know what I mean. Adam and Eve is the story of how humans became self-conscious and developed the capacity for morality. Noah's Flood is the story of how this capacity for morality tipped out of balance to the side of evil.

So no, None of what you described above is evil. Evil is the Soviet Union torturing 30 million prisoners of war for days on end before slaughtering them to death. They didn't have to do that, But they did. They made a conscious decision to make the lives of millions of people worse. That's evil.

To use your example of Jesus being sacrificed at the cross, That symbolises the suffering everyone goes through. He didn't suffer for decades at the cross, But that's not the point. The fact that he said, "My God, My God, Why have You forsaken Me? " implies that when we're at our lowest, We turn away from bearing our burden (turn away from God) and complain. This only makes it worse, Making us resentful and bitter. God is saying, You can either accept your suffering and try to be a good person in spite of it, Or turn to that dark path.

"Sorry, That excuse doesn't wash. All it is, Is an excuse. " You can say that as much as you want but it doesn't change the fact that suffering DOES exist. And I don't think there's been a time in anyone's life where they haven't asked, Just like you, "why do we have suffering? " And unfortunately, As I'm sure you've worked out, These are the laws of nature. We can't change them.
So then the question is, What are you going to do with that suffering? Well, Let's not make it any worse for ourselves by looking at what we can't change. Let's pick up our suffering and look at how we can make it better. This is expressed in John 19:30, "No one takes it from me, But I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father. " By accepting his suffering he is now at peace, His purpose for coming to earth is finished. We can do that too. We can do that even in the face of the darkest tragedies.
We do that when we become the comforting shoulder of everyone at the funeral. We do that when we decide to quit alcohol in an attempt to bounce back from financial hardship. We do that when we decide to make the most of every moment we have with our child before they die of cancer. It's our own moral duty to do these things. We know this because we feel defeated if we don't.

The first Taoist dictem is 'Life is suffering', Suffering is a part and parcel of life. Which is exactly what the Bible talks about. All religious texts, All myths and stories in human history express this very fact. Life is suffering, But if you take responsibility for it you will make life better for yourself.
So no, God doesn't hate children. God, The ideal within all of us, Hates injustice, Refusal of responsibility and anything that strays from the ideal. If that ideal is violated, That's when we suffer.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

backwardseden forfeited this round.
emsiblook

Con

emsiblook forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

backwardseden forfeited this round.
emsiblook

Con

emsiblook forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Chronosofwisdom 3 years ago
Chronosofwisdom
You know who is worse? 21st century Iconoclast. . .
Posted by Eugenious 3 years ago
Eugenious
Hey, "Kvng_8, " I really and totally agree with you about how rude backwardseden is. He harasses me on multiple debates constantly, And I admit to not liking the guy. But your frequent use of language in your last comment was unnecessary. Please keep this a clean environment. Thank you for opposing this guy, However!
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
@backwardseden

1. Who the hell says din din?
2. "You didn't follow the rules in my debate" - Yes I did, I explained HOW I did in my next round which you completely ignored. Because I put you in your place and your ran like a wuss.
3. "You cannot p**s me off which was your sole intent. It failed miserably. " - I should say that to you. You are the one who is always a rude a*shole on here being rude to everyone, You have no conduct. Once I put you in your place, You didn't have anything to say now, Now since your friends are involved it looks like you've grown some balls and you're finally saying something to me. Hilarious.
4. "take your losses " - I'll gladly take my wins. You take YOUR losses.
5. "I am much better at this game than you ---ever--- will be. " - You're a decrepit old man, Been on here since 2 years, You've had over 100 debates which I'm pretty sure are about God (rarely any other topics) whereas I joined 3 months ago. If you want to consider yourself better because of that, Then cool. I have a life outside of DDO this isn't my go to. I'm a blogger, I have my own website, Have my own fan page and much more.
6. "Just because you have no genuine friends or loved ones and you desperately crave attention, Negative attention that is, That's not my problem, That's yours " - Cute. Usually the people who have no genuine friends or loved ones, Push on that pain, Hurt and insecurity onto others to make themselves feel better. I have my family thank you very much and I have a lot of great friends, Thanks!
7. "I'm so very glad I made your day better. " - Well, I could say the same for you.

Also, You really thought you could go behind my back and talk sh-t with your lies to someone else trying to get them not to debate with me? How bitter can you be? I'm so sick if your bullsh-t that it's not even funny. This sh-t stops now, I'm deada** serious. Get a damn life. I'm not like any other motherf-cker on this damn website I'm not the one to be disrespected.
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
F-ck you, Decrepit old ugly motherf-cker. Stupid old ugly snag a tooth cvnt wanna pop off and talk sh-t about me. You got me f-cked up and I gave you your L again with your b*tch a**. When will you ever learn? Stop it with the foolishness.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@killshot - Oh yeah! I get it as soooo many times people try to defend what they cannot defend. And since that can't they try to invent excuses for it and or they flat out lie. It happens here A LOT on DDO.
Posted by killshot 3 years ago
killshot
@backwards Oh I agree with you 100%. . I was just saying saying I doubt anyone will have the balls to accept your challenge and actually honestly attempt to defend their position. .
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Absolutely 100% no. I could tell you some true stories that would turn your soul black and then I would tell you about me. No one has to suffer, Not for any reason. Not ever. Especially when millions of children are raped, Beaten and tortured every single year by daddy age 4 while he punches them in the face all the way up until 17 and they run away and that's only the start of their horrors. Really? "We have to suffer for years upon years, " If you are going to stick with that absurd claim, Then don't even bother talking to me again. Bye.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@W0LV3NBANE - Why don't you click on their names and see why I've put in the rule for two people to not vote on my debates? In other words, Don't let everybody do the work for you. No offense.

The grand scheme, If you are intelligent, Educated, Creative, Knowledgeable, Perceptive and any other synonym that fits, God is completely and 100% left out. There's no thinking, Rationalizing, Reasoning, Common sense, Logic about this as none is required. Something you don't get is your supposed god, In which you cannot even prove exists, Could have started out with peace, Love kindness, Care etc etc etc AND KEPT IT! You have no excuses to circumvent this. But nah, Your god chose evil, Anger, Wrath, Vengeance, Rage, Fury, Jealousy all in which he's freely admitted to having in YOUR bible which is human baggage emotions thus showing this god's imperfection. So why believe? It gets worse because at no time during your god's inception who is supposed to be about peace has this ever occurred anywhere for any length of time, Not ever. So again, Why believe? You are so brainwashed and you automatically assume that this god of YOURS exists WITHOUT PROOF! And even worse is you automatically assume that ---everybody--- should believe in this god of YOURS. Sorry, I will not sink to that level. Not ever. Evil, Hate, Anger, Wrath, All of it, War, Bloodshed, Violence is NOT a requirement. But according to your god only it is with bloodbath after bloodbath all in his supposed "good" name. Sorry, I and the world has better things to do. "More people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. " George Carlin He's right. So again, Why believe? You cannot think of one, Just one legitimate reason and neither can anyone else. There is no grand scheme in your god's honor, Sorry its a horror. Its all a facade.
"God however sees the bigger picture. " What bigger picture if you cannot prove this god exists? "Yes, We have to suffer for years upon years, "
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@Jukebox101 - Well gosh I don't know. Do you REALLY want me to spell it out for you? Nah. You won't read it because "I'm going to ignore you. I've seen your other comments on other debates. " So continue to act as you are. Sheesh. The fact that you don't have an answer for something that is posted unto you and you use cheapened ridiculous answers like that because you are a coward, And you think you behave rationally? Um no. You run.
Posted by W0LV3NBANE 3 years ago
W0LV3NBANE
Wow.
You've accounted for almost every single rebuttal. That's impressive.
I have to mention the big one you forgot though. The Grand Scheme argument. I think you know the one. People suffer for years, Maybe even decades to evil, Despicable people. "Where is God! " you ask. Luckily for me, That exact same question is asked multiple times throughout the bible. God however sees the bigger picture. Yes, We have to suffer for years upon years, But those monsters? Their judgement will never end. All their actions will be accounted for and they will be punished for it.
However, Knowing you, You probably have a rebuttal. If you edit your debate and add that rebuttal in, I can't really think of another counter point.
I look forward to your response
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
backwardsedenemsiblookTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff half of the rounds. That's poor conduct.

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