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Mod Update: Official Vote Group/Raisor Rubles

airmax1227
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4/3/2017 11:46:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hey DDO!

Today I am very excited to announce a new site initiative: The Debate.org Official Voting Group.

In addition to this announcement of The Debate.org Official Voting Group, is also the announcement of Raisor Rubles. While it may be a crazy idea (but hear me out please), it's an idea that I am very excited to announce and explain in this thread.

To explain this idea in depth (since I realize reading the explanation outline might make it hard to fully understand, and might be overly tedious) BossyBurrito (shabshoral) and I have prepared this excellent debate.org propaganda for you:

(Warning: Volume issue. I tend to talk loudly, so turn down the volume if you are listening with headphones)

I'd like to give special thanks to Bossy for his help on these initiatives. His work on the project, as well as on the video above, has been invaluable.

While the video clocks in at over an hour, you only have to listen to it for a short time for the basics.

The first 10 minutes explain The Debate.org Official Voting Group, and the second 10 minutes explains the basics of Raisor Rubles. So you can get the gist of the whole thing in 20 minutes, and I encourage everyone to listen to it.

The rest of the video is a basically a less formal Q&A of the concepts, hypothetical possibilities, and other various questions that aren't necessary to understand the concepts of the initiative, but some might find it interesting.

I strongly suggest listening to the video for an in-depth explanation of these ideas, though the outline of these initiatives are as follows:

Debate.org Official Voting Group

Structure:

1) Similar to other voting groups; group czar and willing participants in group PM.

2) Czar and participants are listed in post #2 of voting thread.

3) Official group abides by the vote moderation standards.

Voting Process:

1) Members contact Group Czar or participants with debates that need voting, or Czar posts debates at their discretion based on quality of debate.

2) Group Czar posts debates to group PM, and keeps tabs on votes/voters/debates.

3) Participants vote on as many or as few debates as they like, but are required to vote on a specific percentage of debates each month as determined by the group czar (depends on debate volume).

Procedure:

1) Members will sign up at regular intervals to join OVG (via sign-up threads or contacting Czar)

2) Czar will dismiss members at their discretion based on lack of quantity or quality of votes

Unique qualities:

1) Official nature of the group gives it credibility and interest. Long-term investment increases chance of long-term success.

2) Every successful idea from previous voting groups is being utilized, and former groups have been consulted.

3) The prominence of the group, reflected as being posted in post #2 of the voting thread, should increase interest and credibility.

4) The New Members Outreach Group will be utilized to function in tandem with this initiative. The OG, as part of their mission in integrating new members, will encourage them to learn voting conventions, and then direct them to join the Official Voting Group. This method will keep a regular rotation of members, therefore maintaining enthusiasm and reducing burnout.

5) The Official Voting Group will have an incentive based structure to encourage active involvement.

Incentives:

1) Members will be listed in the stickied voting thread, creating a recognition incentive for being part of the group.

2) Top voters, based on quality and quantity, will have a thread created each month by the head moderator, voting moderator, or deputy voting moderator, recognizing their achievements. This creates a recognition incentive for excelling at voting within the group.

3) Raisor Rubles...

Raisor Rubles:

Initial structure:

1) RR given to Voting Group participants for each qualified vote.

2) RR can be used to purchase initial public offerings (IPOs).

IPO ideas:

Airmax Shoutout thread - 10 RR
Airmax autographed AV - 30 RR (achievements program)
Bossy Quote thread - 50 RR
Imabench personalized movie - 100 RR

These IPOs are what provides this fiat currency with its initial value. Participants will be incentivized to vote based on earning RRs to buy IPO products/services. These IPOs can be added to based on the ideas and willingness of members to contribute.

Post-establishment:

1) The goal is to create a perceived value of Raisor Rubles, and once this value is accepted, the potential for this system is limited only by our imaginations.

Members can create their own services for Raisor Rubles: Voting, research assistance, debating incentives etc.
Members can create businesses providing services en mass
Members can use Raisor Rubles for other creative means: Gambling etc

2) The site can set up other incentive based RR programs
Thread content creation
Debate of the week participation
Mentoring services

Ideal Early Vision:

1) Official Voting Group acts as "public option" to assure members votes on their debates.

High quality voters pursue "private sector option". In other words, a high quality voter offers to vote on debates for a price.
Enterprising members start voting groups that offer votes for a price.

2) IPOs act as an incentive for earning RRs, with members offering additional services

Initial IPOs create immediate value/incentive, but members create their own to create greater demand an interest in earning RRs.
Enterprising members start multi-member groups that provide more complex services.

3) Market determination of value

We see RRs create a credible and realistic economy that members want to participate in, thus creating an incentive to earn and spend RRs. Beyond that, we see a functional market determine the value of services, and a rate determined by the actual value of a service; based on the member involved, the concept of the service, and supply and demand.

Long-term potential:

1) Site based economy
Incentive based functions, and fun goal-based participation

2) Member creativity
New ideas and concepts for use in site economy, member businesses

3) Increased activity and interest
Incentive based activity, voluntary involvement

Theoretical Potential and issues:

1) Members engage with the site currency and come up with complex plans to earn/spend it
Businesses, corporations, betting pools
Site endorsed incentives for activity; content creation, mentoring, site positions

2) Fraud
Misuse of RRs; non-payment, paying for votes for self, paying for debate wins etc

3) Stock market
Invest in other businesses for percent of profit

-------

So that's the gist of The Debate.org Official Vote Group and Raisor Rubles. There are still plenty of details and things to work out, but the above text and video explain the basics and goal of these initiatives.

If you have any questions, suggestions, or any thoughts at all, please post them in this thread. I want to hear your thoughts and ideas!

Have a great week DDO!
Debate.org Moderator
ShabShoral
Posts: 4,199
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4/3/2017 12:06:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is, by far, the most important thread of the past two years.
: At 10/2/2017 3:00:43 AM, YYW wrote:
: Bossy: You are Regina.

:Inferno wrote:
:You sound rather gay.

-- And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

"I believe that my powers of mind are surely such that I would have become in a
certain sense a resolver of all problems. I do not believe that I could have remained in
error anywhere for long. I believe that I would have earned the name of Redeemer,
because I had the nature of a Redeemer. "
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,674
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4/3/2017 12:12:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh boy, a site economy. Always promising, but as with all site economies, the challenge is to get momentum, to get people to care in the first place.
Cringe
PetersSmith
Posts: 6,898
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4/3/2017 2:11:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
How incredibly Jewish.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
ShabShoral
Posts: 4,199
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4/3/2017 2:26:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 2:11:24 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
How incredibly Jewish.

Addressed here: https://youtu.be...
: At 10/2/2017 3:00:43 AM, YYW wrote:
: Bossy: You are Regina.

:Inferno wrote:
:You sound rather gay.

-- And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

"I believe that my powers of mind are surely such that I would have become in a
certain sense a resolver of all problems. I do not believe that I could have remained in
error anywhere for long. I believe that I would have earned the name of Redeemer,
because I had the nature of a Redeemer. "
SolonKR
Posts: 4,374
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4/3/2017 7:24:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Super-HYPE!

Few things that crossed my mind:
1. One way to deal with fraud is to keep an official balance thread and official deal-making thread. Transactions of RR would need to be conducted in that thread to be valid, and someone(s) would need to keep track of the balances (though regular members could handle the second part easily enough).
2. When the currency is established (or at the start of the program if you're willing), I would really appreciate RR rewards for official tournaments. The follow-through rate with debaters has been pretty meh, and I feel an incentive like that would help a lot.
3. For everyone, here's two ideas that crossed my mind that I'd love to see people use:
Tournaments with RR entrance fees and prize pools
As our own version of Reddit Karma--throw a RR when someone makes great content.
Bailey <3

"For often evil men are rich, and good men poor;
But we will not exchange with them
Our virtue for their wealth, since one abides always,
While riches change their owners every day." - Solon, Plutarch's "Life of Solon"
Combustible.Fairy
Posts: 624
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4/3/2017 8:50:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This idea is really good and is more than likely going to work. This is going to pick up site activity and it's going to make Juggle care about DDO again. You can see how everyone here is saying that they like this idea.

A really good idea, Airmax and Shab!!
"This is, by far, the most important thread of the past two years." ~ ShabShoral

http://www.debate.org...
warren42
Posts: 4,456
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4/3/2017 9:46:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 8:50:27 PM, Combustible.Fairy wrote:
This idea is really good and is more than likely going to work. This is going to pick up site activity and it's going to make Juggle care about DDO again. You can see how everyone here is saying that they like this idea.

A really good idea, Airmax and Shab!!

I agree on just about everything except it working. I don't think it will, but if it does, the rest is true.
ShabShoral
Posts: 4,199
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4/3/2017 9:48:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Note: not speaking in any official capacity.

At 4/3/2017 7:24:32 PM, SolonKR wrote:
Super-HYPE!
H Y P E
Y
P
E
Few things that crossed my mind:
1. One way to deal with fraud is to keep an official balance thread and official deal-making thread. Transactions of RR would need to be conducted in that thread to be valid, and someone(s) would need to keep track of the balances (though regular members could handle the second part easily enough).
The thing is that keeping this information public (ALL of it - there could definitely be public deals) would just make things less interesting. Instead of a deal-making thread, I propose that there be a sort of certified check system - before making a deal, the payer has to contact the DDO bank, who then removes the money from the account and is then able to confirm, before the actual transaction happens, that, no matter what, that money is not going anywhere. That would eliminate most of the major problems I see.
2. When the currency is established (or at the start of the program if you're willing), I would really appreciate RR rewards for official tournaments. The follow-through rate with debaters has been pretty meh, and I feel an incentive like that would help a lot.
We talked about this - great idea :)
3. For everyone, here's two ideas that crossed my mind that I'd love to see people use:
Tournaments with RR entrance fees and prize pools
See: BillyBob
As our own version of Reddit Karma--throw a RR when someone makes great content.

+1

Love ya
: At 10/2/2017 3:00:43 AM, YYW wrote:
: Bossy: You are Regina.

:Inferno wrote:
:You sound rather gay.

-- And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

"I believe that my powers of mind are surely such that I would have become in a
certain sense a resolver of all problems. I do not believe that I could have remained in
error anywhere for long. I believe that I would have earned the name of Redeemer,
because I had the nature of a Redeemer. "
ShabShoral
Posts: 4,199
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4/3/2017 9:48:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 8:50:27 PM, Combustible.Fairy wrote:
This idea is really good and is more than likely going to work. This is going to pick up site activity and it's going to make Juggle care about DDO again. You can see how everyone here is saying that they like this idea.

A really good idea, Airmax and Shab!!

)
: At 10/2/2017 3:00:43 AM, YYW wrote:
: Bossy: You are Regina.

:Inferno wrote:
:You sound rather gay.

-- And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

"I believe that my powers of mind are surely such that I would have become in a
certain sense a resolver of all problems. I do not believe that I could have remained in
error anywhere for long. I believe that I would have earned the name of Redeemer,
because I had the nature of a Redeemer. "
Combustible.Fairy
Posts: 624
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4/3/2017 9:52:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 9:48:51 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 4/3/2017 8:50:27 PM, Combustible.Fairy wrote:
This idea is really good and is more than likely going to work. This is going to pick up site activity and it's going to make Juggle care about DDO again. You can see how everyone here is saying that they like this idea.

A really good idea, Airmax and Shab!!

)

Unlike your idea to post this...
"This is, by far, the most important thread of the past two years." ~ ShabShoral

http://www.debate.org...
Combustible.Fairy
Posts: 624
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4/3/2017 10:01:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 9:46:52 PM, warren42 wrote:
At 4/3/2017 8:50:27 PM, Combustible.Fairy wrote:
This idea is really good and is more than likely going to work. This is going to pick up site activity and it's going to make Juggle care about DDO again. You can see how everyone here is saying that they like this idea.

A really good idea, Airmax and Shab!!

I agree on just about everything except it working. I don't think it will, but if it does, the rest is true.

Everyone can see that it's more than likely going to work.
"This is, by far, the most important thread of the past two years." ~ ShabShoral

http://www.debate.org...
SolonKR
Posts: 4,374
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4/3/2017 10:05:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 9:48:04 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
Note: I'm speaking in an official capacity.

Fixed.

The thing is that keeping this information public (ALL of it - there could definitely be public deals) would just make things less interesting. Instead of a deal-making thread, I propose that there be a sort of certified check system - before making a deal, the payer has to contact the DDO bank, who then removes the money from the account and is then able to confirm, before the actual transaction happens, that, no matter what, that money is not going anywhere. That would eliminate most of the major problems I see.

I agree, though we'd need to find someone who A) is trustworthy, and B) has the sheer dedication to follow through with that. That's not a small commitment, and finding someone like that concerns me. A member(s) could solve that in the all-public system by acting as a bank (I imagine a few wealthy members could start that together), where they let people deposit RR and issue their own notes conducting unofficial transactions that would then be added to the unofficial bank account; they'd later withdraw the money from the bank in the public thread. They could even issue loans if they felt like it. That might be even MORE interesting. Take that :P

Love ya

Right back at you :*
Bailey <3

"For often evil men are rich, and good men poor;
But we will not exchange with them
Our virtue for their wealth, since one abides always,
While riches change their owners every day." - Solon, Plutarch's "Life of Solon"
Hayd
Posts: 4,407
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4/3/2017 10:18:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 12:06:12 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
This is, by far, the most important thread of the past two years.

+1

Except abolition of presidency and drama
airmax1227
Posts: 13,728
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4/4/2017 2:54:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 12:12:26 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
Oh boy, a site economy. Always promising, but as with all site economies, the challenge is to get momentum, to get people to care in the first place.

Agreed. The idea has inherent potential, but we need to create interest and a reason for members to participate. In other words, there needs to be a perceived value, and that is paramount to the entire concept. Without that, it just dwindles into nothing. So I am very much aware of this, and we did touch on that in the video.
Debate.org Moderator
airmax1227
Posts: 13,728
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4/4/2017 3:01:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 7:24:32 PM, SolonKR wrote:
Super-HYPE!

Few things that crossed my mind:
1. One way to deal with fraud is to keep an official balance thread and official deal-making thread. Transactions of RR would need to be conducted in that thread to be valid, and someone(s) would need to keep track of the balances (though regular members could handle the second part easily enough).

This is definitely something I'm giving a lot of thought to, and we will be sure to create a system that works while keeping in mind the various challenges. The idea you have suggested certainly has merit.

Initially the idea was basically just to have members confirm transactions through a 3rd party, though a "transaction thread" could be an interesting way to go. Moving forward, this will certainly be a key area for determining exactly how the system functions.

2. When the currency is established (or at the start of the program if you're willing), I would really appreciate RR rewards for official tournaments. The follow-through rate with debaters has been pretty meh, and I feel an incentive like that would help a lot.

We only touched on this briefly in the video, but this has always been the plan. Awarding Raisor Rubles for Official Tournaments is a given.

3. For everyone, here's two ideas that crossed my mind that I'd love to see people use:

Tournaments with RR entrance fees and prize pools

We talked about this in the video, and this is probably inevitable.

As our own version of Reddit Karma--throw a RR when someone makes great content.

Interesting idea, and one that I hope actually takes place as it's a cool way for members to show appreciation to other members for whatever reason - especially quality content creation. In the video we talked briefly about "gifting" Raisor Rubles, and that concept would surely apply here.
Debate.org Moderator
airmax1227
Posts: 13,728
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4/4/2017 3:04:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 10:21:00 PM, Hayd wrote:
OMFG this is the best thing I've ever read, shivers down my spine. This is gonna be awesome, omg

Thanks :) I'm happy to hear that you appreciate the potential of this idea.
Debate.org Moderator
Subutai
Posts: 4,315
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4/4/2017 12:31:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 10:01:56 PM, Combustible.Fairy wrote:
Everyone can see that it's more than likely going to work.

We can't know that it will work until we see the idea in action. It's a good idea that warrants trial, but you shouldn't be so dismissive like that before the trial has even begun.
We are not dead. We have never lived. - Varg Vikernes, "Det som en gang var"
Raisor
Posts: 5,055
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4/4/2017 8:42:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
IPO: 1000 RR - Raisor will personally take you out for cocktails and dinner. Must be 18 years old to enter, terms and conditions apply.
We gonna pull up like the ice cream truck
ShabShoral
Posts: 4,199
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4/4/2017 10:14:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2017 8:42:55 PM, Raisor wrote:
IPO: 1000 RR - Raisor will personally take you out for cocktails and dinner. Must be 18 years old to enter, terms and conditions apply.

This is legally binding. When I come to collect, you'll truly regret this post.
: At 10/2/2017 3:00:43 AM, YYW wrote:
: Bossy: You are Regina.

:Inferno wrote:
:You sound rather gay.

-- And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

"I believe that my powers of mind are surely such that I would have become in a
certain sense a resolver of all problems. I do not believe that I could have remained in
error anywhere for long. I believe that I would have earned the name of Redeemer,
because I had the nature of a Redeemer. "
imabench
Posts: 20,542
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4/4/2017 10:43:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 10:18:56 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 4/3/2017 12:06:12 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
This is, by far, the most important thread of the past two years.

+1

Except abolition of presidency and drama

<3
DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

12/14/14 to 1/1/15 = VP of DDO
8/4/18 to 8/6/18 = Start of the Worst Spam Attack in DDO History (61 Hours, 21 Minutes, and 37 seconds... Estimated 63,175 Spam Posts during the main attack)

Be Today's Hero and Tomorrow's Hero
The trash from yesterday will still be trash from every day onwards
imabench
Posts: 20,542
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4/4/2017 10:49:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 9:46:52 PM, warren42 wrote:
At 4/3/2017 8:50:27 PM, Combustible.Fairy wrote:
This idea is really good and is more than likely going to work. This is going to pick up site activity and it's going to make Juggle care about DDO again. You can see how everyone here is saying that they like this idea.

A really good idea, Airmax and Shab!!

I agree on just about everything except it working. I don't think it will, but if it does, the rest is true.

It will work if we 1) Get enough people to participate in the whole RR idea, and 2) Have someone keep a tracker of some sorts showing who has how many RR's. If its made real official and people participate in it, this whole idea will do just fine
DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

12/14/14 to 1/1/15 = VP of DDO
8/4/18 to 8/6/18 = Start of the Worst Spam Attack in DDO History (61 Hours, 21 Minutes, and 37 seconds... Estimated 63,175 Spam Posts during the main attack)

Be Today's Hero and Tomorrow's Hero
The trash from yesterday will still be trash from every day onwards
Mharman
Posts: 4,927
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4/4/2017 11:09:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 12:12:26 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
Oh boy, a site economy. Always promising, but as with all site economies, the challenge is to get momentum, to get people to care in the first place.

HOLY S^*% YOU'RE BACK! (nac)
DebateArt.com is where all the users went.
warren42
Posts: 4,456
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4/4/2017 11:21:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2017 10:49:25 PM, imabench wrote:
It will work if we 1) Get enough people to participate in the whole RR idea, and 2) Have someone keep a tracker of some sorts showing who has how many RR's. If its made real official and people participate in it, this whole idea will do just fine

I agree, but don't think those two things will both happen. I think DDO would have to have an official system of gaining and transferring currency in order for it to be effectively tracked, and I don't see enough people buying into the idea. I hope it does though!
Raisor
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4/4/2017 11:42:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2017 10:14:10 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 4/4/2017 8:42:55 PM, Raisor wrote:
IPO: 1000 RR - Raisor will personally take you out for cocktails and dinner. Must be 18 years old to enter, terms and conditions apply.

This is legally binding. When I come to collect, you'll truly regret this post.

Its totally binding. If I back out AirMax can delete my account.
We gonna pull up like the ice cream truck
imabench
Posts: 20,542
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4/5/2017 12:20:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/4/2017 11:21:04 PM, warren42 wrote:
At 4/4/2017 10:49:25 PM, imabench wrote:
It will work if we 1) Get enough people to participate in the whole RR idea, and 2) Have someone keep a tracker of some sorts showing who has how many RR's. If its made real official and people participate in it, this whole idea will do just fine

I agree, but don't think those two things will both happen. I think DDO would have to have an official system of gaining and transferring currency in order for it to be effectively tracked, and I don't see enough people buying into the idea. I hope it does though!

There could be an official 'transactions' thread for all of that stuff. It would keep it official, organized, and may even act as a recurring advertisement for people to keep participating in it or jumping into it the same way the Google hangout thread does.
DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

12/14/14 to 1/1/15 = VP of DDO
8/4/18 to 8/6/18 = Start of the Worst Spam Attack in DDO History (61 Hours, 21 Minutes, and 37 seconds... Estimated 63,175 Spam Posts during the main attack)

Be Today's Hero and Tomorrow's Hero
The trash from yesterday will still be trash from every day onwards
Combustible.Fairy
Posts: 624
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4/5/2017 2:10:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/3/2017 12:06:12 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
This is, by far, the most important thread of the past two years.

Lots of people are agreeing with you. This obviously has so much potential. I have people messaging me in PMs about how they are so excited about this.

Your quote summarizes the thread so well that it should be spread around. This idea has so much potential and anyone serious is agreeing with that.
"This is, by far, the most important thread of the past two years." ~ ShabShoral

http://www.debate.org...

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