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Swartz founder of reddit, commits suicide

lewis20
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1/28/2013 2:59:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Apparently he killed himself because the govt wasn't just looking to put him in jail, they were pushing to have him locked up in a medium-to maximum security jail.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

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tmar19652
Posts: 727
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1/28/2013 3:54:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
DarkKermit-It was hacking and fraud that he was on trial for. While I am a huge advocate of informational freedom, he did commit the crime, and he was facing 25 years in jail because of the sheer number of hacking charges.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
lewis20
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1/28/2013 4:00:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Medium to Maximum security prison I should say.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Oryus
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1/28/2013 4:03:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2013 4:00:10 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Medium to Maximum security prison I should say.

That's really unnecessary.

Would a person who committed a white-collar crime ever be put in such an institution?
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
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: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
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: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
darkkermit
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1/28/2013 4:49:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2013 4:03:58 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/28/2013 4:00:10 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Medium to Maximum security prison I should say.

That's really unnecessary.

Would a person who committed a white-collar crime ever be put in such an institution?

Doesn't make sense, considering that it was a non-violent crime. A person like him wouldn't stand a chance in a prison like that.

Also, did the hacking actually harm anyone? Who was harmed via the action?
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Oryus
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1/28/2013 5:07:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2013 4:49:30 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/28/2013 4:03:58 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/28/2013 4:00:10 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Medium to Maximum security prison I should say.

That's really unnecessary.

Would a person who committed a white-collar crime ever be put in such an institution?

Doesn't make sense, considering that it was a non-violent crime. A person like him wouldn't stand a chance in a prison like that.

Also, did the hacking actually harm anyone? Who was harmed via the action?

That's what I was thinking. Even a white-collar crime does more harm to people than this. It's just absurd. That sentencing seems very vindictive on the part of the state.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
lewis20
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1/28/2013 6:04:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Does it matter what the worth was? At worst he should have been sentenced to a white collar prison, he killed himself because they wanted to lock him up for decades with violent criminals.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
darkkermit
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1/28/2013 6:06:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2013 6:01:42 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
There are better and smarter ways to go about it though. Start a petition or something.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov...

Created May 13, 2012, 7 months ago. No response.
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lewis20
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1/28/2013 6:09:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2013 6:06:01 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/28/2013 6:01:42 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
There are better and smarter ways to go about it though. Start a petition or something.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov...

Created May 13, 2012, 7 months ago. No response.

It's more important to address things like the death star and Piers Morgan.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
bossyburrito
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1/28/2013 6:11:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2013 6:06:01 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/28/2013 6:01:42 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
There are better and smarter ways to go about it though. Start a petition or something.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov...

Created May 13, 2012, 7 months ago. No response.

Ok, then host a protest.
#StandWithBossy

#TheMadmanWasUnbanned
OberHerr
Posts: 12,955
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1/28/2013 6:26:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't get why everyone always thinks that hacking is ok, until the agreed with it.

Be all for it or all against. He stole several million dollars worth of research. It doesn't matter if it "should" have been available, he still did it. There are other ways of trying to fix it. He's the friggen founder of Reddit, maybe do something crazy like start an online movement? Protest?

"But, the petition!"

So? First, I would wager there are quite a view petitions that had reached the old 25k mark, or the new one set. The White House made the petition thing so they can say their listening, respond to high-profile things, ect. But they don't have to respond. Plus, it would probably be a no.

And in no way was this a "last option" to protest this information being how it is.

As for the sentencing, I would personally put him in a med-security prison. He stole millions of dollars worth of info. They should have treated him like he did.
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tmar19652
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1/28/2013 6:36:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2013 6:04:24 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Does it matter what the worth was? At worst he should have been sentenced to a white collar prison, he killed himself because they wanted to lock him up for decades with violent criminals.

If he was innocent he had nothing to worry about. And killing himself was entirely a personal choice, not the prosecutors fault.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
Oryus
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1/28/2013 7:41:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2013 6:26:52 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I don't get why everyone always thinks that hacking is ok, until the agreed with it.

Be all for it or all against.

There's no reason to be all for or all against it. You're creating a false dichotomy. Like saying you have to be all against killing or all for it. You might be for killing in cases of self-defense or in times of war.

He stole several million dollars worth of research. It doesn't matter if it "should" have been available, he still did it. There are other ways of trying to fix it. He's the friggen founder of Reddit, maybe do something crazy like start an online movement? Protest?

"But, the petition!"

So? First, I would wager there are quite a view petitions that had reached the old 25k mark, or the new one set. The White House made the petition thing so they can say their listening, respond to high-profile things, ect. But they don't have to respond. Plus, it would probably be a no.

And in no way was this a "last option" to protest this information being how it is.

As for the sentencing, I would personally put him in a med-security prison. He stole millions of dollars worth of info. They should have treated him like he did.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
lewis20
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1/28/2013 8:00:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2013 6:36:33 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/28/2013 6:04:24 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Does it matter what the worth was? At worst he should have been sentenced to a white collar prison, he killed himself because they wanted to lock him up for decades with violent criminals.

If he was innocent he had nothing to worry about. And killing himself was entirely a personal choice, not the prosecutors fault.

He wasn't innocent, the punishment that the prosecutor was pushing for far exceeded the crime. That is absolutely the prosecutors fault.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
OberHerr
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1/28/2013 9:38:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2013 8:00:55 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 1/28/2013 6:36:33 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/28/2013 6:04:24 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Does it matter what the worth was? At worst he should have been sentenced to a white collar prison, he killed himself because they wanted to lock him up for decades with violent criminals.

If he was innocent he had nothing to worry about. And killing himself was entirely a personal choice, not the prosecutors fault.

He wasn't innocent, the punishment that the prosecutor was pushing for far exceeded the crime. That is absolutely the prosecutors fault.

Since when is stealing millions not worth life in AT LEAST a medium security prison.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
OberHerr
Posts: 12,955
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1/28/2013 9:40:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2013 7:41:31 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/28/2013 6:26:52 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I don't get why everyone always thinks that hacking is ok, until the agreed with it.

Be all for it or all against.

There's no reason to be all for or all against it. You're creating a false dichotomy. Like saying you have to be all against killing or all for it. You might be for killing in cases of self-defense or in times of war.

Hmm, I do get your point in that somewhat. However, there is no denying that he could have simply protested it legally.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
lewis20
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1/28/2013 9:48:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2013 9:38:49 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/28/2013 8:00:55 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 1/28/2013 6:36:33 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 1/28/2013 6:04:24 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Does it matter what the worth was? At worst he should have been sentenced to a white collar prison, he killed himself because they wanted to lock him up for decades with violent criminals.

If he was innocent he had nothing to worry about. And killing himself was entirely a personal choice, not the prosecutors fault.

He wasn't innocent, the punishment that the prosecutor was pushing for far exceeded the crime. That is absolutely the prosecutors fault.

Since when is stealing millions not worth life in AT LEAST a medium security prison.

Since that's not how the prison system works, You don't work your way up prison security for the amount of money you stole, it's for the heinousness of the crime, your threat to others and the risk of you trying to escape. He didn't fall under any of those categories. He wouldn't have lasted in the prison they were looking to put him in.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Franz_Reynard
Posts: 1,227
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1/28/2013 9:50:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Geolaureate should be all over this.

In any case, if there's anything that would make me question American authority, it'd be this.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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1/29/2013 12:34:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2013 9:40:22 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/28/2013 7:41:31 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/28/2013 6:26:52 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I don't get why everyone always thinks that hacking is ok, until the agreed with it.

Be all for it or all against.

There's no reason to be all for or all against it. You're creating a false dichotomy. Like saying you have to be all against killing or all for it. You might be for killing in cases of self-defense or in times of war.

Hmm, I do get your point in that somewhat. However, there is no denying that he could have simply protested it legally.

Well, yes he could have. Obviously he didn't feel like that was good enough.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
1Devilsadvocate
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1/29/2013 10:32:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Can any one give a source for this Medium to Maximum security prison claim, I find it hard to believe.

Unless, maybe there are special high security, low violence jails for geniuses, which would actually make sense.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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lewis20
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1/30/2013 4:17:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/29/2013 10:32:54 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
Can any one give a source for this Medium to Maximum security prison claim, I find it hard to believe.

From wiki:

Supermax: segregating "the worst of the worst" in a prison system, such as terrorists deemed a threat to national security and inmates from other prisons who have a history of violent or other disruptive behavior in prison or are suspected of gang affiliation

Maximum: Inmates accorded this status present serious escape risks or pose serious threats to themselves, to other inmates, to staff, or the orderly running of the institution.

High: The "Middle Ground" for violent crimes

Medium: Inmates accorded to this status may present a moderate escape risk or may pose a threat to other inmates, staff, or the orderly running of the institution

Low: Inmates within this security level are not considered a serious risk to the safety of staff, inmates or to the public

Minimum: most often houses petty or "white-collar criminals."
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler

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