Conjoined Twins.

Posts: 14,448

8/6/2013 11:23:29 PM

Posted: 6 years ago

Consider the following: Two conjoined twins, called Tom and Mark, were born, say, twenty years ago. They both are able to understand the consequences of consenting to an action, and are capable of clear reasoning. Tom wants to be separated from the other, since he will die if they stay together. However, by separating, Mark will die.

Is it immoral for Tom to separate from Mark?

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AnDoctuir
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AnDoctuir

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8/6/2013 11:28:03 PM

Posted: 6 years ago

What the f*ck is wrong with you dude. I hate these dilemmas

bossyburrito
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8/6/2013 11:28:43 PM

Posted: 6 years ago

At 8/6/2013 11:28:03 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
What the f*ck is wrong with you dude. I hate these dilemmas

Sorry?

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DetectableNinja
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DetectableNinja

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8/6/2013 11:31:05 PM

Posted: 6 years ago

Not if Mark consents to Tom separating.

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and now we never will, never will.
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Rational_Thinker9119
32-year old male in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.

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8/6/2013 11:31:22 PM

Posted: 6 years ago

At 8/6/2013 11:23:29 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Consider the following: Two conjoined twins, called Tom and Mark, were born, say, twenty years ago. They both are able to understand the consequences of consenting to an action, and are capable of clear reasoning. Tom wants to be separated from the other, since he will die if they stay together. However, by separating, Mark will die.

Is it immoral for Tom to separate from Mark?

It all depends, does Mark consent to the separation?

bossyburrito
53-year old female in Ljubljana, ---Miscellaneous---, Slovenia.

Posts: 14,448

8/6/2013 11:31:57 PM

Posted: 6 years ago

At 8/6/2013 11:31:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:23:29 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Consider the following: Two conjoined twins, called Tom and Mark, were born, say, twenty years ago. They both are able to understand the consequences of consenting to an action, and are capable of clear reasoning. Tom wants to be separated from the other, since he will die if they stay together. However, by separating, Mark will die.

Is it immoral for Tom to separate from Mark?

It all depends, does Mark consent to the separation?

Oh, I forgot to add that part.
No, Mark does not consent.

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Rational_Thinker9119
32-year old male in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.

Posts: 9,473

8/6/2013 11:32:07 PM

Posted: 6 years ago

At 8/6/2013 11:31:05 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Not if Mark consents to Tom separating.

Crap dude, you just had to post 17 seconds before me haha

Rational_Thinker9119
32-year old male in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.

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8/6/2013 11:32:22 PM

Posted: 6 years ago

At 8/6/2013 11:31:57 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:31:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:23:29 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Consider the following: Two conjoined twins, called Tom and Mark, were born, say, twenty years ago. They both are able to understand the consequences of consenting to an action, and are capable of clear reasoning. Tom wants to be separated from the other, since he will die if they stay together. However, by separating, Mark will die.

Is it immoral for Tom to separate from Mark?

It all depends, does Mark consent to the separation?

Oh, I forgot to add that part.
No, Mark does not consent.

Then yes it would be immoral.

DakotaKrafick
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Rational_Thinker9119
32-year old male in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.

8/7/2013 12:05:20 AM

Posted: 6 years ago

At 8/6/2013 11:32:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:31:57 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:31:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:23:29 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Consider the following: Two conjoined twins, called Tom and Mark, were born, say, twenty years ago. They both are able to understand the consequences of consenting to an action, and are capable of clear reasoning. Tom wants to be separated from the other, since he will die if they stay together. However, by separating, Mark will die.

Is it immoral for Tom to separate from Mark?

It all depends, does Mark consent to the separation?

Oh, I forgot to add that part.
No, Mark does not consent.

Then yes it would be immoral.

And forcing Tom to stay joined (and thereby die) is moral?

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bossyburrito
53-year old female in Ljubljana, ---Miscellaneous---, Slovenia.

8/7/2013 12:33:43 AM

Posted: 6 years ago

At 8/7/2013 12:05:20 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:32:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:31:57 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:31:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:23:29 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Consider the following: Two conjoined twins, called Tom and Mark, were born, say, twenty years ago. They both are able to understand the consequences of consenting to an action, and are capable of clear reasoning. Tom wants to be separated from the other, since he will die if they stay together. However, by separating, Mark will die.

Is it immoral for Tom to separate from Mark?

It all depends, does Mark consent to the separation?

Oh, I forgot to add that part.
No, Mark does not consent.

Then yes it would be immoral.

And forcing Tom to stay joined (and thereby die) is moral?

Well, I guess more questions have to be asked to the OP.

If they stay joined, and Tom dies, would Mark have to live with a dead Tom on him for the rest of his life?

Could they separate after Tom dies, but not before? Or, would any separation cause Mark to die?

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Orangatang
27-year old male in Los Angeles, California, United States.

8/7/2013 12:45:12 AM

Posted: 6 years ago

At 8/7/2013 12:33:43 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/7/2013 12:05:20 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:32:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:31:57 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:31:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:23:29 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Consider the following: Two conjoined twins, called Tom and Mark, were born, say, twenty years ago. They both are able to understand the consequences of consenting to an action, and are capable of clear reasoning. Tom wants to be separated from the other, since he will die if they stay together. However, by separating, Mark will die.

Is it immoral for Tom to separate from Mark?

It all depends, does Mark consent to the separation?

Oh, I forgot to add that part.
No, Mark does not consent.

Then yes it would be immoral.

And forcing Tom to stay joined (and thereby die) is moral?

Well, I guess more questions have to be asked to the OP.

If they stay joined, and Tom dies, would Mark have to live with a dead Tom on him for the rest of his life?

Could they separate after Tom dies, but not before? Or, would any separation cause Mark to die?

Any separation would cause Mark to die, I suppose.

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Orangatang

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Rational_Thinker9119
32-year old male in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.

8/7/2013 4:57:26 AM

Posted: 6 years ago

At 8/6/2013 11:28:03 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
What the f*ck is wrong with you dude. I hate these dilemmas

What the f*ck is wrong with you dude. These are quite interesting. I think I'm going to make a post of many of these dilemmas now.

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mattrodstrom
31-year old male in New York, New York, United States.

8/7/2013 3:29:27 PM

Posted: 6 years ago

At 8/7/2013 12:45:12 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/7/2013 12:33:43 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/7/2013 12:05:20 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:32:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:31:57 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:31:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/6/2013 11:23:29 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Consider the following: Two conjoined twins, called Tom and Mark, were born, say, twenty years ago. They both are able to understand the consequences of consenting to an action, and are capable of clear reasoning. Tom wants to be separated from the other, since he will die if they stay together. However, by separating, Mark will die.

Is it immoral for Tom to separate from Mark?

It all depends, does Mark consent to the separation?

Oh, I forgot to add that part.
No, Mark does not consent.

Then yes it would be immoral.

And forcing Tom to stay joined (and thereby die) is moral?

Well, I guess more questions have to be asked to the OP.

If they stay joined, and Tom dies, would Mark have to live with a dead Tom on him for the rest of his life?

Could they separate after Tom dies, but not before? Or, would any separation cause Mark to die?

Any separation would cause Mark to die, I suppose.

Ok, then I guess Tom lives. He gets to live a normal life without a dead body attached to him all the time. Mark would have to live with a dead body attached to him. Since Tom would live a richer life than Mark if he survived, it is better if he lives.

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000ike
23-year old male in Cascade Station, ---Miscellaneous---, Australia.

8/7/2013 5:23:50 PM

Posted: 6 years ago

At 8/6/2013 11:28:03 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
What the f*ck is wrong with you dude. I hate these dilemmas

Ding.. Ding.. Ding!!!

You got the Right Answer!

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000ike

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8/7/2013 5:49:20 PM

Posted: 6 years ago

I hate questions like this because they're so pointless. These things don't happen in real life - as in there would be no reason for the physicians not to attempt to separate and keep both people alive - despite whatever dismal probabilities forewarn such an attempt. If you're simply trying to invoke and question our ethical standards by applying them to a difficult circumstance, the question is still pointless because there are no real ethical standards. We're reactionary and instinctive creatures - philosophical ethics unsuccessfully attempts to formalize these emotions. So if this were a real life case, no one would feel compelled to consult a standard, and judgments will be made entirely based on what feels right.

Lastly, if the purpose here is just to inquire what feels right, then we're operating outside the hypothetical world and formalized ethics, which means the unrealistic simplicity of your scenario inhibits any applicable feeling.

So, long story short. I'm not answering your question because there's no point in doing so.

"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault

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Df0512

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8/7/2013 7:16:15 PM

Posted: 6 years ago

At 8/6/2013 11:23:29 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Consider the following: Two conjoined twins, called Tom and Mark, were born, say, twenty years ago. They both are able to understand the consequences of consenting to an action, and are capable of clear reasoning. Tom wants to be separated from the other, since he will die if they stay together. However, by separating, Mark will die.

Is it immoral for Tom to separate from Mark?

If Tom does not consent, yes it is immoral. Do conjoined twins count as 1 person or 2? You would think 2 but is there any situations where they would be counted as one?

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