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What should people do?

Xiutecuhtli
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8/31/2018 3:03:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I anticipate a couple categories of response:

Nothing in particular, People can do what they wish to do because the meaning of life is to be happy. My counter-response: Matrix Happy Pods for humanity.

Learn as much as possible. My counter-response: Robots do it better.

Gain as much ability as possible. My counter-response: See "Learn as much as possible. " We will become obsolete when they think better than us. Then they could put us in happy pods or dispose of us, Depending on what they think the answer is to "What should robots do? "

Be a good or even a righteous person. My counter-response: What's right? If it's making people happy, Then I'm still going to invent happy pods. Are the right and wrong codes right? The rules tell us that the rules are right but what supports the validity of the rules? If there are, By definition, No rules outside of the category defined as "all rules in existence, " then "all rules in existence" are self-referential and I might not decide to decide that way. It all gets very confusing when you try to figure out by what rules the rules were designed. See that it was a lot harder to get rid of that paragraph. Maybe I don't have an easy answer to it. The short version is at the top of the paragraph, Happy pods. Also Good and Righteous are what I'm asking definition for anyway with "What should people do? " I guess this paragraph was an attempted disproof of any answer to that question.

Protect life: Happy pods. Maybe I should've made a separate forum for happy pod ethics.

Nothing in particular, Because the meaning of life is to be free and choose? That's why we need resources and knowledge, For more choices? It sounds good, But then it brings us back to what should we do with choices?

In the end don't our actions have useless effect on the universe? Is the world a choose-your-own-adventure-book that always ends at the same ending? If I DON'T do what people should do, Then are there noticeable consequences in the eternity of time?

I should probably address religion, Too. Why is a finite amount of time with a finite number of choices determining infinite well-being? It seems like a disproportionate response to create ANY punishment of infinite length for a finite action on someone or something. Couldn't I learn better after I die? And then would I deserve better eternal rewards? I think it makes more sense that the judgment period doesn't end at death. But then what purpose exactly does life serve? I thought it was to be a test, According generally to religion, I think, Probably in most cases, Insert another maybe phrase to avoid seriously offending someone. Maybe it's to be happy, But then happy pods. And I guess I'm falling back to the same question again: "What should people do? " This sorta fell under the "righteous" category. I kinda included the "righteous" just for religion and I ended up making a separate paragraph anyway. Oh well.

It's hard to answer without falling back to either the same question or to happy pods. Maybe happy pods are the answer to life's problems.

Anticipating responses involving Tide pods, No ;-;, I meant matrix-style computer simulation sorta but it's really just hooking up to the brain and giving it pure happy-thought forever. Sorta complicated to explain since it doesn't exist. I don't know if it's scientifically possible. I'll stop using up the characters of people who would quote me in responses using | lines, Though, And leave some points for other people to make instead of using a bunch of the easy ones. I was supposed to ask the question, Not answer it.
Everything is 50% true and 50% false at all times.
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Leaning
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8/31/2018 8:01:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I suppose people try to make bubbles of happiness in the world already. . But they do it in reality. A family, A secure house or nation, Ability to enjoy food or sleep, To be able to read books or watch a sunrise. Even if someone is happy in Plato's cave, If they realize where they truly are, Perhaps they feel they truly have to get out. Happiness can be found in reality, Though I suppose the pods would technically be part of reality. Still, I don't think I would choose them, Least not creepy style ones.
Xiutecuhtli
Posts: 43
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9/2/2018 3:57:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't know about the path leading to happiness.

The effects of the path on the world are what the path matters for, Just like anything.
If it causes a lot of collateral damage then I guess the path matters.
But if the collateral damage only matters because it would make people sad, Then happiness is still the basic important thing in the world.

There'd have to be other important things like human achievement being important for the path to matter beyond the end happiness, Directly and through collateral damage, It produces.

And I personally think human achievement is generally worthless if nobody is around to see it, So that one is probably based on a different key element of happiness if it's important at all.
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Xiutecuhtli
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9/2/2018 4:21:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Another thing is we don't know how many Plato's caves inside Plato's caves we're in ;-;.

We might already be in happy pods, And no matter how many times we wake up, There remains a chance that there's another layer.
In fact, There are multiple possible ways to simulate a given circumstance, While there is only one way to be real. We could be in a robot simulation, Or a magic dream (because maybe we're only dreaming that magic isn't real), And there are infinite other potential dream-creating circumstances that don't exist in our logic but can exist in waking-world logic.
Probability-wise, Counting all simulation options equal to the option in which we aren't dreaming, It's certain we're in another layer, And then another, Infinitely.
Then again, If we're only dreaming logic is the way it is, Then probability could ALSO be different in the waking world.

I guess that shpiel wasn't very relevant. But I guess at first, Before I forgot what I was talking about, I was trying to say that, Even if we'd be happier having found the REAL world, There's no way to get the really real world. We're going to have to settle for some simulation layer, Buried infinitely deep, And a pure-happiness-generating pod would probably be the ideal layer to stay at.

I'm not a flat earth conspiracy crazy guy, I pretty much don't apply any of the ideas I come up with to real life actions. I throw the ideas I don't like but can't disprove at crowds hoping someone else can disprove them for me. It's also funny thinking about surreal crazy stuff. I don't really like the idea of being in a simulation either, And I might stay outside too. But then again, I would like it once I was inside.
And I'm not implying that you SAID I was a flat earth conspiracy crazy guy, I just didn't want to look like I was one, To any random strangers who might see me and forget about me later. ;/ Maybe it's not necessary to address it. Not backspacing though.
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Xiutecuhtli
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9/2/2018 4:26:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The artificial happy pods will be more "ideal" than family and things because it will be more pure in the emotion.
They'll probably present it non-threateningly and I bet people will still see huge resemblances to future-dystopia novels too.
I don't know if they'll enforce happy pods on the world. They'd have to be tended by robots or everyone would die. And then those robots would have minds capable of thinking everything we're capable of thinking, Since we'd be at the technology level where happy pods can be real. And then those robots would probably have emotions, Although it would be very very very hard to tell if they had souls to experience the emotions. And then their minds would express the wanting of happy pods, Probably. It might not be a good solution.

I guess I would have to revise the hypothetical scenario to have certain unobtainable things like perpetual-motion self-sustaining pods. It is just hypothetical I guess, After all. Makes it less useful to talk about the option when it's not actually an option for the future, Though. I guess I wasn't planning on it being the future anyway. Maybe.
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Leaning
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9/2/2018 1:19:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Personally I don't think there is any 'What people should do' in the big picture. Only in the small picture in individual pictures. Though the lines get blurred and hard to distinguish when they touch each other.
Xiutecuhtli
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9/3/2018 2:01:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I read that book and it was really great.
It's basically what I modeled the whole thing after, But the book portrayed happy pods as a bad thing.
It did seem like it left the real world pretty trashed, So I guess it does have a point.
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Xiutecuhtli
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9/3/2018 2:16:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
They played a little bit with the waking up into new illusions instead of into reality in that book, Just like I talked about, But they eventually reached the real world, Which I was reasoning wasn't possible.
Then again, Technically, They DIDN'T wake up into the real world, Because they remained in fiction.
They had no idea their world was fictional, Just like we'd not recognize if ours was. They had all the reasons to consider their world real that we have.

Maybe the I-think-therefore-I-am doesn't apply to the characters the way it applies to us. Or maybe it does, But in the book only, And in higher layers the thoughts aren't real, So the people aren't real beyond that layer.
Maybe if we wake up enough, That could happen to us, Too.
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Xiutecuhtli
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9/3/2018 2:17:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Also,
If individuals have their own unique purposes in life, It's still according to a general rule: "individuals should accomplish their individual purposes".
And the specific purpose of a person would be based on circumstances and self, If anything, And in an understandable way, Which means more rules I could figure out. I might not be able to fully comprehend the logic by which a person's purpose in life is derived, But I could probably learn trends and summaries, And estimate my purpose.

I guess that's the secret reason I posted this.
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Leaning
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9/3/2018 7:47:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well. . . If you see an individuals purpose as based around circumstance and self, Wouldn't they accomplish it no matter what? Well, I suppose if you were big on disbelief in free will and all that (I usually try not to think about that).

I suppose that it's easier to figure out the purpose or life of a primitive animal, For example a bird. Birds supposed to fly, Eat bird food, Mate with other birds if it's built that way/experienced life that it would, Poop on cars, Sometimes fly into windows or powerlines. . . Maybe, Maybe it's not supposed to fly into windows or power lines I'm not sure. Is it only the more probable or positive that matter?

Humans seem more complex than birds though. A lot more options for what they 'can' do. What their purpose might be. Mmm, Just rambling really.

I wonder if a person would ever really be able to track and understand their own conscious reactions fast enough. . I read a book about a kid who could do that to other people and was a certifiable psychopath with what he did with the knowledge. More creepy kid than the knowledge though I'm thinking.

But anyway, Not sure if a person could do that himself or not. Lot of information already lost that made us who we are. Most people though seem to do okay with a broad view of what a human should do. Whether acting with the golden rule or acting on some variant of might is right, Whatever they're used to or found despite that maybe. . . Hmm, Not sure any of that meant much.
Leaning
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9/3/2018 8:49:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well, Even if they reached our level of reality in the book, Lot of people in our reality still doubt our reality. Still, They reached the level of reality that they were aware of and knew to exist.

Some people in our world spiritual or religious believe there's a reality after this. I'm sure there's many who would even say they know it. Afterlife I mean. Personally I don't think so, I think this is it. Though I'd be willing to admit there is a world all around me that I can't sense quite. You know dogs sense of smell, Hawks eyes, Deer's ears, Somethings taste, Somethings touch. Plenty in this reality I can't know right now.

I'd consider myself something along the lines of a Hedonistic, Christian, Nihilist, American of the current age. I'm rather fond of feeling what I like or choose, Somewhat raised a Christian though I don't believe in it anymore, Sticks with me, Don't really think there is some grand purpose or really any purpose to it all (Other than the little bubbles), Born and raised in the United States, So lot of values of that area (Though plenty contradict).

Mostly though for human purpose, The one I can agree on is even if there is none, A human is usually going to want one, Act on some, Make them here and there.
Though they can also just give up I suppose, If one saw purpose as whatever a person could/did do. Like the birds hitting the windows or wires.

Still. . . I'd rather say humans should live than kill themselves, Rather vote against marijuana than for it, Don't really see a need for alcohol or cigarettes.

But eh, Unless I really care for you like I do my immediate family I grew up with, Probably not care that much. And probably act contradictory to what I say someday in some fashions, Maybe I'll drink in the future someday (Though I'm a bit doubtful I will, And even if I did try it, Doubt I'd make a regular event of it. Still, Life is long, Chances rise with time lengthening. And I think it'd be nice to live forever, Though more realistically 100 years.
Xiutecuhtli
Posts: 43
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9/5/2018 1:20:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
You're probably right about most people wanting a purpose in life even if there isn't one.

I guess that's what this forum's purpose is. I made it for that, But it could do other things too, And I guess maybe the creator of things doesn't get to determine what purpose it serves in others' lives.
Same thing with the universe. People can say there's a creator with a given purpose for the world, But in the end it would only be an arbitrary purpose, Not an absolute one.

I should have addressed the idea that no specific purpose could exist for the world. There's no up or down in space without a frame of reference, And you can't be sure that that frame of reference is absolutely correct. It could be upside-down relative to something else, And there's really no upside-down direction compared to space itself. That's like trying to figure out where the top of a sphere is. Or even the top of a trapezoid or an arrow. It could just not be meant to point in any particular direction.
Same with ethics. You could be matching the direction of a moral code, But there's no moral code existing without conscious, Subjective thought, Which makes it an arbitrary definition instead of absolute.
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Xiutecuhtli
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9/5/2018 1:41:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The only issue is, I find it really hard to base anything on a solid foundation with "should" reasoning, When I know there's nothing I particularly "should" do. I wanted to be in control of myself, Willing to do the right thing even when I desired something different, So I got rid of the "I want to" part of me. Now I have nothing for decisions, And it leaves me aimless and confused.
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Leaning
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9/5/2018 6:49:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
For tasks that could be completed there are plenty of shoulds. You should build a building in a certain way, You should study in a certain way, You should eat certain foods a certain way. Not that a person has to do just one, After all eating some food with your hands is more convenient than with a fork and knife, While using a fork and knife will keep your hands clean other times.

I don't know what you should do, Though I'm sure there's plenty of answers you could get according to society, Family, Your own nature, Desire, Yada. Anything you want to do?
Xiutecuhtli
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9/7/2018 6:31:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Some of those "shoulds" are society-based. It might not be hard to be out of touch and do those things completely differently. There could be a guy who always eats pizza with a fork until he meets with his friends for pizza and they do it the normal way. It's kind of a social rule instead of an intrinsic good-bad rule.

Then again, Not just any structure serves a house function. It's kind of important about the definition of what a house is. It's only a house if it houses you, Kind of. I guess.
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Xiutecuhtli
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9/7/2018 6:42:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I guess I don't know what I want to do. I want to do what I'm supposed to do. But I can't tell what I'm supposed to do anymore. It seems like I'm not particularly supposed to do anything, And I guess I could just remove the want to do what I'm supposed to do, But I don't know if I trust my other wants. I inhibit a lot of my less good wants, Like greed and laziness and sexual desires. And if ethical "supposed to" stuff disappears then there's not actually a reason to select which wants I follow and which ones I don't.
It's kind of hard to explain.
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Leaning
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9/7/2018 6:51:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Eh, Most people that I have asked what do they want from life say a good paying job, A family, Enjoy life and do good by other people, Then die.

Isn't that what most people think is expected from them? Honor your parents, Have a family, Contribute to society, Don't do obviously evil things, If you're super hyped up then do a little bit of charity work.

That's what I think of generally what people are 'supposed' to do. But I also eat my cereal with a fork at times, Or plaster cream cheese on the opposite sides of a bagel, Either one in public. Being odd or enjoying outlying activities isn't really wrong. And even obviously wrong activities I am at a loss for calling wrong sometimes, But that's just my bleak nihilism talking sometimes.
Xiutecuhtli
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9/8/2018 4:07:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Sometimes I worry that I'm a bleak nihilist.

I hope I'm not, But I think I probably am. I guess after looking up the definition it summarizes me.

I don't know if I should do what other people do. I can't tell if they're wrong or right. Being a nihilist is very confusing. I think I don't like it.

In practice I guess I mostly do what you said. If nothing can be proven right or wrong, Then it doesn't matter if I do what you said, But if things CAN be proven right, What you said will probably be what's right. So the things you said are pretty much better on average than the things against what you said.
Or maybe I'm wrong about it. I can't tell if I'm wrong or right. Being a nihilist is very confusing. I think I don't like it.
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Xiutecuhtli
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9/8/2018 4:08:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Maybe I'm not even a nihilist. I just googled it and got a one-line summary of what those people think. Maybe it involves a lot of other beliefs too, That I didn't see.
The general idea is the same though.
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Leaning
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9/8/2018 4:21:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Eh, I'd just say don't worry too much about it. I don't know much about philosophy and all that. I read bit's here and there, But wouldn't say I have a deep understanding though I do like to talk about it now and then.

But, Pretty sure there's plenty of different definitions for stances people have on life. At the beginning at least I would think it's comforting that there are so many paths you haven't tried yet in life for meaning, Purpose and all that.

http://www. Debate. Org/forums/debate. Org/topic/52865/

Pop in if you feel like it.
Xiutecuhtli
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9/8/2018 4:24:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yeah I guess that sounds like a good thing to do.
I might be a little bit too strung up about this kind of thing.
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Leaning
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9/8/2018 4:26:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Eh, I felt kind of that way when I was 18. . . Then 19 -25. Hasn't quite let up yet, Buuut I also don't think I've really tried all that hard to find a solution for it.

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