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Details: What Trump Told the Russians

YYW
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5/16/2017 8:13:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There is a lot of confusion, denial, and other nonsense among members of this forum who aren't paying attention or following the news. No one (other than me) has correctly identified what happened or what it means, so I'm going to explain it to you all.

Disclaimer: save your bullsh!t about how I'm not being objective, or how I'm not being fair, or whatever. The fact that you are ignorant as to what happened or as to its significance does not mean that it didn't happen or that the entire world who is reporting on this is wrong. The people I'm talking to and about here know who they are.

After Donald Trump fired James Comey, head of the FBI, Trump had a meeting with Sergey Lavrov, and Sergey Kislyak. Lavrov is the Russian foreign minister, kind of like Russia's Secretary of State, and Kislyak is the Russian ambassador to the United States. In an interview with Lester Holt, Trump expressly stated that he was considering the fact that the FBI was investigating Trump campaign personnel's ties with Russia. That same week, it was also revealed that Eric Trump revealed that the Trump's source of investment in certain Trump golf courses was Russia.

During that meeting, Trump discussed the details of a specific ISIS plot against the United States homeland regarding the use of laptops. Trump claims that he did not discuss the methods by which that information was obtained, or the sources of that information. But, Trump did nevertheless discuss specific details about a particular ISIS plot against the United States involving laptops on flights.

The information we received with respect to that plot came from a Middle Eastern ally, who carefully guards its sources. The source is rumored to be Israel, who is our strongest ally in the Middle East. Whether the source was Israel or not has not been confirmed, but there are few other intelligence agencies on earth that it could have come from.

Trump did not have the ally's permission to share this information, which was a major breach of trust as between the United States and that ally (most likely Israel). Trump did not consult with his national security team, or with anyone on his staff or the joint chiefs with respect to this decision to share information that was classified at the highest level with Lavrov and Kysliak. Many allies of the United States (namely, the UK and Israel) have expressed great reservation about sharing information with the United States for fear that it would leak to the Russians. These concerns were plainly and clearly validated by Trump's actions.

How the intelligence outfit got the information with respect to the ISIS threat to the United States, which shared that information with the United States, is a question of both sources and methods used in service of that objective. The Trump Administration has defended sharing this information with the Russians, but denied that it shared either sources or methods with the Russians. The Washington Post broke the story (https://www.washingtonpost.com...), but the Post never reported that Trump shared either sources or methods.

Trump's mishandling of classified information comes after Trump repeatedly attacked Hillary Clinton for so-called mishandling of classified information, throughout the election season. For example, on July 6, 2016 Trump tweeted "Crooked Hillary Clinton and her team "were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information." Not fit!"

While it is not clear whether Trump intentionally disclosed this information to the Russians, or unintentionally disclosed this information to the Russians, there is no doubt that he did, in fact, disclose this highly classified information to the Russians because the White House is defending it. Rather Lt. General Henry R. McMaster, who is Trump's national security adviser that replaced now-disgraced Russian agent Mike Flynn, said "At no time " at no time " were intelligence sources or methods discussed, and the president did not disclose any military operations that were not already publicly known."

Yet, McMaster never denied that Trump actually made the disclosures that the Washington Post said he did. Rex Tillerson confirmed as well, after also denying disclosures of sources and methods, that Trump did talk about "the nature of specific threats" with the meeting Trump had with Lavrov and Kysliak, Russian officials who Trump met after he fired James Comey. Yet once more, no one ever said Trump disclosed sources or methods.

However, both Tillerson and McMaster did say that the Post's article "as reported" was false, but when both were pressed as to what in particular within the article was false, both only denied that Trump reported "sources and methods." Neither denied that the specifics of an ISIS plot against the United States homeland was shared, and neither denied the substance of the allegations.

Trump supporters have undertaken to argue that this means that, the actions which Trump has since admitted to doing (i.e., mishandling highly classified information obtained from one of our closest Middle Eastern allies by sharing it with the Russians without that ally's permission) never happened. McMaster and Tillerson's responses have added to this lack of clarity, because ostensibly if their words were not carefully read, they seemed to be denying that any intelligence was shared. This was, however, not the case, nor has it been the case since the Washington Post first broke the story.

Despite McMaster's and Tillerson's incredibly carefully worded statements (they were not technically lying, rather they were being deceptive by omission), Trump, in the event that there was any doubt, Trump confirmed the veracity of the Washington Post's reporting in a series of tweets this morning. Trump tweeted: "As President I wanted to share with Russia (at an openly scheduled W.H. meeting) which I have the absolute right to do, facts pertaining....to terrorism and airline flight safety." Trump's actions to undercut the carefully worded damage control measures of both Tillerson and McMaster, just as he undercut Kellyanne Conway and Mike Pence with respect to reporting over why Trump fired James Comey, in the Lester Holt interview.

Trump continued to deny that he shared sources or methods, but once again, no one reported that he reported sources or methods. Trump also attacked "leakers" and the media who he has tried to portray as the real problems.

This latest gaffe has caused tremendous tension within the Republican party. Even once-allied senate members like Bob Corker have come out against Trump's actions, and have emphasized the danger that Trump has caused. Mitch McConnell expressed a desire after the latest Trump incident to see less drama from the White House. Mike Lee of Utah strongly criticized Trump's sharing the information Trump disclosed with the Russians, as did Dean Heller and Jeff Flake. Unsurprisingly, so has every Democrat that has opined on the issue. There is, therefore, bipartisan agreement that Trump's actions endangered American national security.

...continued below.
YYW
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5/16/2017 8:25:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Even outside the Beltway, Trump has been severely castigated by both the left and the right for this profound lapse in judgment. (https://www.nytimes.com...)

These concerns are amplified because of the fact that the likely source of the highly classified information regarding the specifics of an imminent ISIS plot against the United States homeland was likely Israel. Israel's concern for sharing information with the Trump white house have sounded since his election. For example, in January, Israeli news reported that Israeli intelligence officials fear that top-secret information that has been exposed to the United States will be leaked to Russia"and from Russia to its close ally, Iran. These fears, which began upon Trump"s election, grew stronger following a meeting held recently between Israeli and American intelligence officials (the date of the meeting is not mentioned to protect the sources of the report). During the meeting, according to the Israelis who participated in it, their American colleagues voiced despair over Trump"s election, as he often lashes out at the American intelligence community. The American officials also told the Israelis that the National Security Agency (NSA) had "highly credible information" that Russia"s intelligence agencies, the FSB and GRU, were responsible for hacking the Democratic Party (DNC) servers during the elections and leaking sensitive information to WikiLeaks, which hurt Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. The American officials further added that they believed Russia President Vladimir Putin had "leverages of pressure" over Trump " but did not elaborate. They were apparently referring to what was published Wednesday about embarrassing information collected by the Russian intelligence in a bid to blackmail the president-elect.

In response, Trump has proclaimed that he had an 'absolute right' to share information with Russia. Intelligence analysts, however, are outraged because of their recognition that Trump does not understand the significance of what he engaged in.

Recommended Reading:

https://twitter.com...
https://twitter.com...
http://www.csmonitor.com...
http://www.cnn.com...
http://www.ynetnews.com...
http://www.ynetnews.com...
http://www.haaretz.com...
https://www.nytimes.com...
https://www.nytimes.com...
https://www.nytimes.com...
https://www.nytimes.com...
https://www.nytimes.com...
YYW
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5/16/2017 8:42:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
What happened here has significance well beyond the politics of it all, which sadly have clouded both the judgment and understanding of many who are trying to make sense of all of this. Trump admitted on Twitter that he shared information with the Russians and that he had an absolute right to do so. McMaster and Tillerson tried to do damage control and dial back the truth of what Trump actually did, but just as Trump undermined Kellyanne Conway and Mike Pence with respect to why Trump fired Comey just days ago, Trump did the identical thing to McMaster and Tillerson today.

The implications here are both internal to the white house and the Trump administration, and external, both with our intelligence sharing arrangements with other countries and the extent to which the United States will be able to protect the American people from terrorist threats abroad.

Inside the Trump administration, Trump officials have to be learning that any damage control they try to do to minimize the harm caused by Trump's personal lapses in judgment or incompetence will make them look like fools and undermine their credibility before the American people and the world. After all, in nearly every single case where carefully worded statements have been utilized by Trump's people to minimize the harm or the apparent harm, Trump has undermined them thereafter.

Externally, the Trump administration has taken an action that will cause every single intelligence agency on earth to doubt that the information they share with the United States will remain confidential. Whether it's the United Kingdom, France, Israel, or whoever, no matter who the source was for this particular source of intelligence, all are on active notice that Trump may unilaterally disregard their confidence and trust in a meeting with the Russians, or anyone else Trump desires to share information with.

This means that our allies will be less likely to share information with us, which hurts the United States' ability to identify and address threats in the first place.
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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5/16/2017 9:27:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Obama pays off the Iranians with cash.
1) Hero.
2) Global peace activist.
3) Nobel prize winner.

Trump tries to gain an ally against ISIS by giving ISIS intel to Russians.
1) Traitor.
2) Impeachable offense.
3) Wants to destroy the country and the CIA.

Really, really hard to see what's going on here.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
YYW
Posts: 44,679
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5/16/2017 9:28:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 9:27:04 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Obama pays off the Iranians with cash.
1) Hero.
2) Global peace activist.
3) Nobel prize winner.

Trump tries to gain an ally against ISIS by giving ISIS intel to Russians.
1) Traitor.
2) Impeachable offense.
3) Wants to destroy the country and the CIA.

Really, really hard to see what's going on here.

I know you're not intellectually capable of posting insightful things. We all know that.
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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5/16/2017 9:30:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 9:28:38 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:27:04 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Obama pays off the Iranians with cash.
1) Hero.
2) Global peace activist.
3) Nobel prize winner.

Trump tries to gain an ally against ISIS by giving ISIS intel to Russians.
1) Traitor.
2) Impeachable offense.
3) Wants to destroy the country and the CIA.

Really, really hard to see what's going on here.

I know you're not intellectually capable of posting insightful things. We all know that.

I forgot Iran is our real ally in the fight against ISIS.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
YYW
Posts: 44,679
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5/16/2017 9:32:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 9:30:00 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:28:38 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:27:04 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Obama pays off the Iranians with cash.
1) Hero.
2) Global peace activist.
3) Nobel prize winner.

Trump tries to gain an ally against ISIS by giving ISIS intel to Russians.
1) Traitor.
2) Impeachable offense.
3) Wants to destroy the country and the CIA.

Really, really hard to see what's going on here.

I know you're not intellectually capable of posting insightful things. We all know that.

I forgot Iran is our real ally in the fight against ISIS.

This kind of pedestrian (read: shit_tier) nonsense does not discredit Obama, nor justify or excuse what Trump has done.
twocupcakes
Posts: 3,441
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5/16/2017 9:34:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I imagine the Trump supporter response to be:

This is all Obama's fault. Obama clearly should have warned Israel harder about sharing Intel with Trump. Obama warned them, but not nearly enough. Thanks Obama!
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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5/16/2017 9:37:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 9:32:32 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:30:00 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:28:38 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:27:04 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Obama pays off the Iranians with cash.
1) Hero.
2) Global peace activist.
3) Nobel prize winner.

Trump tries to gain an ally against ISIS by giving ISIS intel to Russians.
1) Traitor.
2) Impeachable offense.
3) Wants to destroy the country and the CIA.

Really, really hard to see what's going on here.

I know you're not intellectually capable of posting insightful things. We all know that.

I forgot Iran is our real ally in the fight against ISIS.

This kind of pedestrian (read: shit_tier) nonsense does not discredit Obama, nor justify or excuse what Trump has done.

Obama can take exactly zero credit for how the press reported on his Foreign policy decisions. Leave Obama out of this.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
YYW
Posts: 44,679
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5/16/2017 9:39:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 9:37:46 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:32:32 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:30:00 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:28:38 PM, YYW wrote:

First, he says:

At 5/16/2017 9:27:04 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Obama pays off the Iranians with cash.
1) Hero.
2) Global peace activist.
3) Nobel prize winner.

Then he says:

Obama can take exactly zero credit for how the press reported on his Foreign policy decisions. Leave Obama out of this.

You are such a shit_tier member.
YYW
Posts: 44,679
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5/16/2017 9:42:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 9:34:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
I imagine the Trump supporter response to be:

This is all Obama's fault. Obama clearly should have warned Israel harder about sharing Intel with Trump. Obama warned them, but not nearly enough. Thanks Obama!


btw.... Trump asked Comey to stop the Russia probe.
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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5/16/2017 9:48:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Who benefits from a prolonged or escalated cold war with the Russians?

The Military Industrial Complex. Over 50 Billion in foreign arms sales and Over a trillion in military expenses annually. It's not an insignificant political force.

Who has Ties to them?

Many Congressmen in both parties, most notably McCain, and Schiff among countless others.

Who doesn't have ties?

Trump, with his notable renegotiations of arms and weapons contracts within his 1st 100 days.

Who benefits from a prolonged or escalated cold war with the Russians?
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
Swagnarok
Posts: 2,020
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5/16/2017 9:48:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 9:42:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:34:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
I imagine the Trump supporter response to be:

This is all Obama's fault. Obama clearly should have warned Israel harder about sharing Intel with Trump. Obama warned them, but not nearly enough. Thanks Obama!


btw.... Trump asked Comey to stop the Russia probe.

Look, regardless of whether the Russia allegations are true or not, the mere fact that such an investigation was ongoing served as a major talking point against him by the opposition. If Obama was President, and the Republican Party launched an official investigation into the Kenya pseudo-scandal, and the FRICKIN' DIRECTOR OF THE FBI was part of the witch hunt, is there any alternate reality in which Obama wouldn't fire him?
Rest in Peace DDO (2007-2018)
YYW
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5/16/2017 9:53:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 9:48:35 PM, Swagnarok wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:42:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:34:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
I imagine the Trump supporter response to be:

This is all Obama's fault. Obama clearly should have warned Israel harder about sharing Intel with Trump. Obama warned them, but not nearly enough. Thanks Obama!


btw.... Trump asked Comey to stop the Russia probe.

Look, regardless of whether the Russia allegations are true or not, the mere fact that such an investigation was ongoing served as a major talking point against him by the opposition. If Obama was President, and the Republican Party launched an official investigation into the Kenya pseudo-scandal, and the FRICKIN' DIRECTOR OF THE FBI was part of the witch hunt, is there any alternate reality in which Obama wouldn't fire him?

There is no world in which Obama would have fired the head of the FBI who was investigating him under any circumstance. Obama would know that doing so is textbook obstruction of justice.
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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5/16/2017 9:57:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 9:53:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:48:35 PM, Swagnarok wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:42:53 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:34:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
I imagine the Trump supporter response to be:

This is all Obama's fault. Obama clearly should have warned Israel harder about sharing Intel with Trump. Obama warned them, but not nearly enough. Thanks Obama!


btw.... Trump asked Comey to stop the Russia probe.

Look, regardless of whether the Russia allegations are true or not, the mere fact that such an investigation was ongoing served as a major talking point against him by the opposition. If Obama was President, and the Republican Party launched an official investigation into the Kenya pseudo-scandal, and the FRICKIN' DIRECTOR OF THE FBI was part of the witch hunt, is there any alternate reality in which Obama wouldn't fire him?

There is no world in which Obama would have fired the head of the FBI who was investigating him under any circumstance. Obama would know that doing so is textbook obstruction of justice.

In June 2010, President Obama relieved Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal of duty, after he made critical comments about the president in a Rolling Stone magazine interview. In a Rose Garden announcement, Obama explained his decision to oust the general, "I don't think we can sustain that unity of effort and achieve our objectives in Afghanistan without making this change." Three years later, in an interview with ABC News, McChrystal recalled his firing: "It felt surreal, because my whole career I'd thought that I could be fired for incompetence, or I could be killed, or I could have any number of things happen, but I never thought I could be painted with any brush of disrespect or disloyalty, because I didn't see myself that way. And I still don't," he said.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
3RU7AL
Posts: 2,250
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5/16/2017 10:05:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 9:27:04 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Obama pays off the Iranians with cash.
1) Hero.
2) Global peace activist.
3) Nobel prize winner.

Trump tries to gain an ally against ISIS by giving ISIS intel to Russians.
1) Traitor.
2) Impeachable offense.
3) Wants to destroy the country and the CIA.

Really, really hard to see what's going on here.

In 1979, Iran"s then-monarch Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi paid $400 million to the United States government to purchase military parts. But that year"s revolution toppled the shah, and the military parts were never delivered.

To regain its funds, Iran filed a claim against the United States in 1981 in the Iran-U.S. Claims Tribunal, which adjudicates disputes between the two nations. The body, located at the Hague, was established amid negotiations to end the 1979-81 Iran hostage crisis, in which pro-revolution students took over the U.S. embassy in Tehran.

The tribunal's first priority was to address claims from private individuals, including 4,700 now-resolved U.S. claims filed against the Government of Iran. Over the past several years, the tribunal has focused more of its attention on claims the two governments have made against each other, including this dispute over the $400 million weapons deal.

The State Department announced its settlement in the dispute " the United States would pay Iran $400 million plus $1.3 billion in interest
http://www.politifact.com...
Believing in "objective reality" is just like believing in heaven.
Please adhere to obvious epistemological limits.
ethang5, PureX, and I agree on... http://www.debate.org...
How to have a Rational Conversation http://www.debate.org...
Cognitive bias
Bias blindspot
What is Alief?

+proHUMAN
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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5/16/2017 10:08:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 10:05:53 PM, 3RU7AL wrote:
At 5/16/2017 9:27:04 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Obama pays off the Iranians with cash.
1) Hero.
2) Global peace activist.
3) Nobel prize winner.

Trump tries to gain an ally against ISIS by giving ISIS intel to Russians.
1) Traitor.
2) Impeachable offense.
3) Wants to destroy the country and the CIA.

Really, really hard to see what's going on here.



In 1979, Iran"s then-monarch Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi paid $400 million to the United States government to purchase military parts. But that year"s revolution toppled the shah, and the military parts were never delivered.

To regain its funds, Iran filed a claim against the United States in 1981 in the Iran-U.S. Claims Tribunal, which adjudicates disputes between the two nations. The body, located at the Hague, was established amid negotiations to end the 1979-81 Iran hostage crisis, in which pro-revolution students took over the U.S. embassy in Tehran.

The tribunal's first priority was to address claims from private individuals, including 4,700 now-resolved U.S. claims filed against the Government of Iran. Over the past several years, the tribunal has focused more of its attention on claims the two governments have made against each other, including this dispute over the $400 million weapons deal.

The State Department announced its settlement in the dispute " the United States would pay Iran $400 million plus $1.3 billion in interest
http://www.politifact.com...

Who benefits from a prolonged or escalated cold war with the Russians?

The Military Industrial Complex. Over 50 Billion in foreign arms sales and Over a trillion in military expenses annually. It's not an insignificant political force.

Who has Ties to them?

Many Congressmen in both parties, most notably McCain, and Schiff among countless others.

Who doesn't have ties?

Trump, with his notable renegotiations of arms and weapons contracts within his 1st 100 days.

Who benefits from a prolonged or escalated cold war with the Russians?
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
3RU7AL
Posts: 2,250
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5/16/2017 10:19:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 10:08:33 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

Obama pays off the Iranians with cash.

I'm sure you meant, paid back the Iranians their own money with 37 years worth of interest...
Believing in "objective reality" is just like believing in heaven.
Please adhere to obvious epistemological limits.
ethang5, PureX, and I agree on... http://www.debate.org...
How to have a Rational Conversation http://www.debate.org...
Cognitive bias
Bias blindspot
What is Alief?

+proHUMAN
twocupcakes
Posts: 3,441
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5/16/2017 10:20:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago

btw.... Trump asked Comey to stop the Russia probe.

There could not be a more textbook example of Obstruction of Justice.

If Comey testifies to this under oath (which I think will happen) it should serve the basis for Trump's impeachment. Once Trump is impeached, the criminal trial can begin.
YYW
Posts: 44,679
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5/16/2017 10:25:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 10:20:13 PM, twocupcakes wrote:

btw.... Trump asked Comey to stop the Russia probe.

There could not be a more textbook example of Obstruction of Justice.

If Comey testifies to this under oath (which I think will happen) it should serve the basis for Trump's impeachment. Once Trump is impeached, the criminal trial can begin.

I agree. It's impeachment time.

Comey will testify publicly.
Greyparrot
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5/16/2017 10:40:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 10:19:56 PM, 3RU7AL wrote:
At 5/16/2017 10:08:33 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

Obama pays off the Iranians with cash.

I'm sure you meant, paid back the Iranians their own money with 37 years worth of interest...

Who benefits from a prolonged or escalated cold war with the Russians?

The Military Industrial Complex. Over 50 Billion in foreign arms sales and Over a trillion in military expenses annually. It's not an insignificant political force.

Who has Ties to them?

Many Congressmen in both parties, most notably McCain, and Schiff among countless others.

Who doesn't have ties?

Trump, with his notable renegotiations of arms and weapons contracts within his 1st 100 days.

Who benefits from a prolonged or escalated cold war with the Russians?
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
NothingSpecial99
Posts: 794
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5/17/2017 12:50:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2017 8:13:49 PM, YYW wrote:

Trump seriously needs to shut up and delete his twitter account. His unhinged speech is going to be the end of him. It's only been months since he was inaugurated. If he doesn't learn to shut up, it is going to be a painfully long four years.
Check your facts, not your privilege -- Christina Hoff Sommers

Trigger warning!! Trigger warning!! This is Ben Shapiro Thug Life. Trigger warning!! The Thug Life chose me. -- Ben Shapiro
YYW
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5/17/2017 2:23:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/17/2017 12:50:45 AM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
At 5/16/2017 8:13:49 PM, YYW wrote:

Trump seriously needs to shut up and delete his twitter account. His unhinged speech is going to be the end of him. It's only been months since he was inaugurated. If he doesn't learn to shut up, it is going to be a painfully long four years.

He is well on the road to impeachment.
vortex86
Posts: 874
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5/17/2017 2:29:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/17/2017 2:23:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/17/2017 12:50:45 AM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
At 5/16/2017 8:13:49 PM, YYW wrote:

Trump seriously needs to shut up and delete his twitter account. His unhinged speech is going to be the end of him. It's only been months since he was inaugurated. If he doesn't learn to shut up, it is going to be a painfully long four years.

He is well on the road to impeachment.

On what grounds? A NYTimes article from an anonymous source with no public statement from Comey validating the contents of the memo as stated. When Congress pulls Comey in front of them to clarify the matter then we can talk. We will either a. find out the story overstates what Comey has in the memo or b. that comey failed to disclose the information previously. At that point it will be more than speculation it will be sworn testimony with context.
YYW
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5/17/2017 2:38:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/17/2017 2:29:33 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 5/17/2017 2:23:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/17/2017 12:50:45 AM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
At 5/16/2017 8:13:49 PM, YYW wrote:

Trump seriously needs to shut up and delete his twitter account. His unhinged speech is going to be the end of him. It's only been months since he was inaugurated. If he doesn't learn to shut up, it is going to be a painfully long four years.

He is well on the road to impeachment.

On what grounds?

Ones you lack the intellectual capacity to understand.

A NYTimes article from an anonymous source with no public statement from Comey validating the contents of the memo as stated. When Congress pulls Comey in front of them to clarify the matter then we can talk. We will either a. find out the story overstates what Comey has in the memo or b. that comey failed to disclose the information previously. At that point it will be more than speculation it will be sworn testimony with context.
vortex86
Posts: 874
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5/17/2017 2:45:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/17/2017 2:38:26 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/17/2017 2:29:33 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 5/17/2017 2:23:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/17/2017 12:50:45 AM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
At 5/16/2017 8:13:49 PM, YYW wrote:

Trump seriously needs to shut up and delete his twitter account. His unhinged speech is going to be the end of him. It's only been months since he was inaugurated. If he doesn't learn to shut up, it is going to be a painfully long four years.

He is well on the road to impeachment.

On what grounds?

Ones you lack the intellectual capacity to understand.

A NYTimes article from an anonymous source with no public statement from Comey validating the contents of the memo as stated. When Congress pulls Comey in front of them to clarify the matter then we can talk. We will either a. find out the story overstates what Comey has in the memo or b. that comey failed to disclose the information previously. At that point it will be more than speculation it will be sworn testimony with context.

understood baseless and followed with snarky personal attacks. You are nothing if predictable.
vortex86
Posts: 874
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5/17/2017 2:46:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/17/2017 2:45:41 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 5/17/2017 2:38:26 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/17/2017 2:29:33 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 5/17/2017 2:23:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/17/2017 12:50:45 AM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
At 5/16/2017 8:13:49 PM, YYW wrote:

Trump seriously needs to shut up and delete his twitter account. His unhinged speech is going to be the end of him. It's only been months since he was inaugurated. If he doesn't learn to shut up, it is going to be a painfully long four years.

He is well on the road to impeachment.

On what grounds?

Ones you lack the intellectual capacity to understand.

A NYTimes article from an anonymous source with no public statement from Comey validating the contents of the memo as stated. When Congress pulls Comey in front of them to clarify the matter then we can talk. We will either a. find out the story overstates what Comey has in the memo or b. that comey failed to disclose the information previously. At that point it will be more than speculation it will be sworn testimony with context.

understood baseless and followed with snarky personal attacks. You are nothing if predictable.

if not*
YYW
Posts: 44,679
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5/17/2017 2:57:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/17/2017 2:45:41 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 5/17/2017 2:38:26 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/17/2017 2:29:33 PM, vortex86 wrote:
At 5/17/2017 2:23:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/17/2017 12:50:45 AM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
At 5/16/2017 8:13:49 PM, YYW wrote:

Trump seriously needs to shut up and delete his twitter account. His unhinged speech is going to be the end of him. It's only been months since he was inaugurated. If he doesn't learn to shut up, it is going to be a painfully long four years.

He is well on the road to impeachment.

On what grounds?

Ones you lack the intellectual capacity to understand.

A NYTimes article from an anonymous source with no public statement from Comey validating the contents of the memo as stated. When Congress pulls Comey in front of them to clarify the matter then we can talk. We will either a. find out the story overstates what Comey has in the memo or b. that comey failed to disclose the information previously. At that point it will be more than speculation it will be sworn testimony with context.

understood baseless and followed with snarky personal attacks. You are nothing if predictable.

Of course you would think that my describing the condition you find yourself in, with respect to Trump's prospective impeachment, was "baseless" and "followed by snarky personal attacks."

I could explain to you why you would be unable to understand why Trump is well on his way to impeachment, but that, too, you would fail to understand for the identical reason that you reached the conclusion that my initial response was little more than a baseless personal attack.

The problem you find yourself in is that you have allowed yourself to accept the partisan 'rules' for what counts for 'truth' in this new post-factual age. You heard from someone that unnamed sources in the media were part of an anti-Trump conspiracy, and you believed them. You reached that conclusion because of certain ideas that were promulgated when Trump was elected to preempt the foreseeable institutional reactions of our government and our media to a president that cannot even keep his lies straight.

The reason you were told that, however, eludes you. The reason was to cause you to discredit those institutions (the FBI, the media, etc.) whose job it is to hold the executive branch accountable, and to force you to believe whatever you were told by the White House. After all, the more you question Trump the less power he has. The Deep State conspiracy theory, really, was nothing more than an insurance policy against the fallout of Trump's leadership style.

But, you're never going to understand this. You're never going to understand what Trump is doing or why it is utterly unacceptable, until his house of cards falls -- and even then, you still may not get it, because you lack the intellectual ability to distinguish truth from White House bullsh!t.

You think you hold an esteemed position relative to the general population because of your skepticism of the "main stream media," but in reality that skepticism was only created within your mind for the purpose of forcing you to turn to the spin of Mike Pence, Kellyanne Conway, Sean Spicer, H.R. McMaster, and Rex Tillerson. You believe that they are telling you the truth ONLY because they are NOT the "main stream media." And that, Vortex, is why my time spent discussing with you why Trump is on the road to impeachment would be in vain.

How do I know that that's what you thought? Because you used the same language as Trump surrogates: "an anonymous source with no public statement."

Democracy dies in darkness, and the light is already turned off inside your mind.
YYW
Posts: 44,679
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5/17/2017 3:00:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/17/2017 2:46:33 PM, vortex86 wrote:
if not*

And the reality is that in the post-Trump era, which will come, your lot will become a new political underclass; a brigade of pariahs so toxic that the only real goal will be to silence you and minimize you because those who understand political issues are too dangerous to be even be permitted to have political influence.

Why are you dangerous? Because you do not think, and are easily manipulated. You have already been manipulated by the Trump people who got you to accept their rules for coining the truth, which were systematically structured to delegitimize the media and the branches of the federal government, by conspiracy theorists who sold convincing lies in the form of political polemics to the American people.

You were hooked. You still are. But, the majority of Americans are not.

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