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Worker Exploitation.

Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
Sardukar
Posts: 2
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5/31/2017 11:22:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yet which is the more common exploitation and the more destructive?

Corporate exploitation of not only workers but of the nations they infect and the environment they pollute has vastly more impact then a few uncommon labor strikes. Not that I blame the individual CEO's or board of directors. They merely inhabit a system that rewards idiotic lust for profit at the expense of everything else.

Have some perspective is all i'm getting at.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,468
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6/1/2017 12:05:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

I don't think you understand what worker exploitation actually means.
Exploitation is a key component of how class works, so allow this economist who is an expert in class analysis explain
http://www.youtube.com...

Also, socialists just want equality of power, not equality of everything. Yes, there will always be people with more money than others, but those people should not gain that money through exploitation of other peoples' labor. They should gain it through hard work, skill, ingenuity, etc.
As for strikes, you do realize those only happen because capitalists are exploiting the labor of those workers in the first place. Same goes for the poor man in your example. Also, that welfare would be less necessary if there was noworker exploitation.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,468
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6/1/2017 12:08:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/31/2017 11:22:11 PM, Sardukar wrote:
Yet which is the more common exploitation and the more destructive?

Corporate exploitation of not only workers but of the nations they infect and the environment they pollute has vastly more impact then a few uncommon labor strikes. Not that I blame the individual CEO's or board of directors. They merely inhabit a system that rewards idiotic lust for profit at the expense of everything else.

Have some perspective is all i'm getting at.

Also, his examples of "exploitation" only exist because workers are exploited.
If there was no exploitation of labor and workplaces were controlled by their workers, there would be no exploitation.
Emilrose
Posts: 6,201
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6/1/2017 12:12:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.


But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.


There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house


We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

Of course there will always be *some* wage inequality; but worker exploitation goes far beyond that. Primarily it is about people being paid less than they should, working improper hours, being unfairly treated and/or dismissed, not receiving pay when they should, etc.

Those are all very real and very practical issues.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,468
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6/1/2017 12:16:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 12:12:38 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.


But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.



There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house


We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

Of course there will always be *some* wage inequality; but worker exploitation goes far beyond that. Primarily it is about people being paid less than they should, working improper hours, being unfairly treated and/or dismissed, not receiving pay when they should, etc.

Those are all very real and very practical issues.

Well, thats not really what we mean by exploitation. Exploitation refers to the expropriation of surplus value from labour by capitalists.
Bennett91
Posts: 8,093
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6/1/2017 12:16:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/31/2017 11:22:11 PM, Sardukar wrote:
Yet which is the more common exploitation and the more destructive?

Corporate exploitation of not only workers but of the nations they infect and the environment they pollute has vastly more impact then a few uncommon labor strikes. Not that I blame the individual CEO's or board of directors. They merely inhabit a system that rewards idiotic lust for profit at the expense of everything else.

Have some perspective is all i'm getting at.

GreyParrot is defined by his lack of perspective.
The Prophet Sanders preaching the Word [][]
Emilrose
Posts: 6,201
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6/1/2017 12:22:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 12:16:00 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:12:38 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.


But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.



There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house


We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

Of course there will always be *some* wage inequality; but worker exploitation goes far beyond that. Primarily it is about people being paid less than they should, working improper hours, being unfairly treated and/or dismissed, not receiving pay when they should, etc.

Those are all very real and very practical issues.

Well, thats not really what we mean by exploitation. Exploitation refers to the expropriation of surplus value from labour by capitalists.

*That's. And note I said 'far beyond.'--I was also mostly responding to specific points made by the OP (I.E he mentioned workers going on strike, etc.)...and that is usually for reasons attributed to poor pay and unfair treatment.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,468
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6/1/2017 12:28:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 12:22:09 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:16:00 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:12:38 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.


But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.



There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house


We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

Of course there will always be *some* wage inequality; but worker exploitation goes far beyond that. Primarily it is about people being paid less than they should, working improper hours, being unfairly treated and/or dismissed, not receiving pay when they should, etc.

Those are all very real and very practical issues.

Well, thats not really what we mean by exploitation. Exploitation refers to the expropriation of surplus value from labour by capitalists.

*That's. And note I said 'far beyond.'--I was also mostly responding to specific points made by the OP (I.E he mentioned workers going on strike, etc.)...and that is usually for reasons attributed to poor pay and unfair treatment.

Which just so happen to relate back to the expropriation of surplus.
Emilrose
Posts: 6,201
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6/1/2017 12:31:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 12:28:13 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:22:09 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:16:00 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:12:38 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.


But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.



There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house


We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

Of course there will always be *some* wage inequality; but worker exploitation goes far beyond that. Primarily it is about people being paid less than they should, working improper hours, being unfairly treated and/or dismissed, not receiving pay when they should, etc.

Those are all very real and very practical issues.

Well, thats not really what we mean by exploitation. Exploitation refers to the expropriation of surplus value from labour by capitalists.

*That's. And note I said 'far beyond.'--I was also mostly responding to specific points made by the OP (I.E he mentioned workers going on strike, etc.)...and that is usually for reasons attributed to poor pay and unfair treatment.

Which just so happen to relate back to the expropriation of surplus.

So your point is what exactly?

https://www.google.co.uk...

All things I referred to in my post.
Quadrunner
Posts: 5,509
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6/1/2017 12:49:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 12:31:19 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:28:13 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:22:09 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:16:00 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:12:38 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.


But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.



There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house


We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

Of course there will always be *some* wage inequality; but worker exploitation goes far beyond that. Primarily it is about people being paid less than they should, working improper hours, being unfairly treated and/or dismissed, not receiving pay when they should, etc.

Those are all very real and very practical issues.

Well, thats not really what we mean by exploitation. Exploitation refers to the expropriation of surplus value from labour by capitalists.

*That's. And note I said 'far beyond.'--I was also mostly responding to specific points made by the OP (I.E he mentioned workers going on strike, etc.)...and that is usually for reasons attributed to poor pay and unfair treatment.

Which just so happen to relate back to the expropriation of surplus.

So your point is what exactly?

https://www.google.co.uk...

All things I referred to in my post.

Goodness, subject to years of working at McDonald's
Quadrunner
Posts: 5,509
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6/1/2017 12:54:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

Our language is dying
Emilrose
Posts: 6,201
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6/1/2017 12:59:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 12:49:04 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:31:19 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:28:13 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:22:09 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:16:00 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:12:38 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.


But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.



There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house


We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

Of course there will always be *some* wage inequality; but worker exploitation goes far beyond that. Primarily it is about people being paid less than they should, working improper hours, being unfairly treated and/or dismissed, not receiving pay when they should, etc.

Those are all very real and very practical issues.

Well, thats not really what we mean by exploitation. Exploitation refers to the expropriation of surplus value from labour by capitalists.

*That's. And note I said 'far beyond.'--I was also mostly responding to specific points made by the OP (I.E he mentioned workers going on strike, etc.)...and that is usually for reasons attributed to poor pay and unfair treatment.

Which just so happen to relate back to the expropriation of surplus.

So your point is what exactly?

https://www.google.co.uk...

All things I referred to in my post.

Goodness, subject to years of working at McDonald's

?
triangle.128k
Posts: 5,127
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6/1/2017 3:10:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 12:05:23 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

I don't think you understand what worker exploitation actually means.
Exploitation is a key component of how class works, so allow this economist who is an expert in class analysis explain
http://www.youtube.com...

Also, socialists just want equality of power, not equality of everything. Yes, there will always be people with more money than others, but those people should not gain that money through exploitation of other peoples' labor. They should gain it through hard work, skill, ingenuity, etc.
As for strikes, you do realize those only happen because capitalists are exploiting the labor of those workers in the first place. Same goes for the poor man in your example. Also, that welfare would be less necessary if there was noworker exploitation.

I'm going to ignore some of your statements and address the video you posted. The person who created the video (as I guessed), seems to be a Socialist who is using manipulated numbers and statistics, and plain out lies to prove a point against Capitalism.

Generally it seems to go with the same Marxist idea of there existing the "top 10%" who lives off the exploitation of the bottom 90%. First off, much of these statistics are based off of household income - which is heavily misleading at times. "Class" is not as fixed as many who adhere to Marxist economics would like to believe. Most Americans make it up to the top 20% within their life for some period of time, 39% make it to the top 10%, and 5% make it to the top 1%, all for at least two consecutive years.
http://www.npr.org...

So the Marxist idea of wealth distribution of a top 10% of business leaders living off the exploitation of lower classes is very flawed, which is what the video has been falsely portraying.

In addition to this, the wealthy class is actually increasing with more middle class people moving towards the wealthy class.
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

And perhaps the most flawed point in that video is wage stagnation. The idea of a stagnating middle/working class with the wealthy class growing is flawed for many reasons.

A counter-counter argument to the argument of people not working and being lazy by the video and other Marxists is that the gap between productivity and pay is increasing, with hard work being compensated less. First off, the chart shown in that video is the same manipulated statistic passing around. It accounts for inflation incorrectly, by using the CPI for worker pay and other measures for the price increase of goods and services purchased. It also does not take into account that benefits such as healthcare and pension are often excluded from those manipulated statistics, because those benefits offered by employers has increased.
In addition to this, it also does not take into account the rise of women in the workforce, which would result in pay being "split up" between men and women. Essentially a couple would still enjoy the same amount of money, rather the shifting of cash to have women more financially independent can make it easier to manipulate statistics and say that people are being paid less and less.
http://www.hoover.org...

And household income is portrayed as stagnant for the middle class too. However, the number of people in the household is also decreasing which results in more income towards individuals, but "stagnant" households.

https://www.creators.com...

And in regards to the philosophy of business structures themselves rather than the compensation they give their workers, those who adhere to Marxist economics may say that the owners of the business are taking the "fruits of their labor" while they work and get nothing. First off, exploitation of workers and low pay is a bad business practice that is frowned upon. If a business underpays their workers, they will have a workforce shortage due to less people applying. Underpaying also means that the workers can not purchase the goods and services that the company produces, which is what Henry Ford recognized and had increased pay towards workers while decreasing hours, and profited of them buying ford vehicles.

And the ridiculous argument of the "fruits of their labor" being stolen? Keep in mind that the "fruits" workers produce are not entirely theirs, given that they used the company's resources and utilities to create them which may not have been possible themselves. The workers are given the money to easily afford the "fruits of their labor," and the vast majority of money that the company owners receive is lost to operating expenses. The owners of the company are also under a lot of pressure and work much longer hours than the "workers", thus of course it is natural that they are wealthier. And if the owners of the successful company didn't have a very high pay, then there would be less of a motive to start businesses. This is because a motive for doing so is that they will be in the top, rather than working their way in a pre-existing company. If the income is not nearly as wide however, then there would be less of a motive. Furthermore, most of the wealth of the wealthy doesn't lie in consumer goods and luxuries, but rather in investments. And investment would be harder if everybody had the same or similar income, and much more complicated due to multiple people disagreeing on what to do with money. If my point is coming unclear, what I am implying is that the mass redistribution of wealth results in a lower standard of living for EVERYBODY.

So this whole idea of the "wealthy elites" exploiting the middle and lower class is utterly ridiculous as you can see, given that the poor and middle class face a high enough standard of living under Capitalism than they ever could receive with Socialism or Communism.

And moving on to the debt argument shown in the video, that is unrelated to Capitalism and exploitation. That's a separate issue at stake, especially because Western European nations with large welfare states and seemingly better wealth distribution have a bigger debt issue: https://tiny
Skepsikyma
Posts: 9,514
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6/1/2017 5:25:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.
"Partout ou vous verrez un autel, la se trouve la civilisation."
- Joseph de Maistre -

"Woe that I live in bitter days,
As God is setting like a sun
And in his place, as lord and slave,
Man raises forth his heinous throne."
- Translation of 'Rhyfel', by Hedd Wyn -

Virtutem videant intabescantque relicta
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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6/1/2017 6:54:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 5:25:06 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.

Exploitation will always happen in a non-egalitarian society. There's no feasible way to prevent it sans genetic engineering or cloning.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
illegalcombat
Posts: 1,323
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6/1/2017 9:59:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

Wake up grey, there is a huge difference between some one selling their labour out of desperation to just live another week vs the ownership class who just made another million today cause they owned stuff, and the wealth flows to those who own, not those who work, in an political/economic game which is rigged.

Address that before you start with the right wing talking points, people rich cause they worked super hard and smart, people poor cause lazy and stupid.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 9,514
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6/1/2017 12:27:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 6:54:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:25:06 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.

Exploitation will always happen in a non-egalitarian society. There's no feasible way to prevent it sans genetic engineering or cloning.

Exploitation isn't the point though, it's the capacity to become self sufficient through owning property which is at stake. A society of small holders is much better in that regard than one of oligarchical control. Things like contract law, technology, and market economics can be divorced from the capitalist distribution scheme and international trade principles, seeing as they predate the rise of both conditions.
"Partout ou vous verrez un autel, la se trouve la civilisation."
- Joseph de Maistre -

"Woe that I live in bitter days,
As God is setting like a sun
And in his place, as lord and slave,
Man raises forth his heinous throne."
- Translation of 'Rhyfel', by Hedd Wyn -

Virtutem videant intabescantque relicta
Ramshutu
Posts: 5,445
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6/1/2017 12:43:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 6:54:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:25:06 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.

Exploitation will always happen in a non-egalitarian society. There's no feasible way to prevent it sans genetic engineering or cloning.

And you can't prevent death. So let's not bother investing in healthcare, environmental protection, and work place safety?

You don't seem to understand that the world isn't binary. The treatment of workers in the US in general can be pretty bad; and can be improved.

When treatment is good enough that people start defining worker exploitation as "only having 4 breaks per day instead of 5" and not "I am forced to work dozens of hours of unpaid over time per week at risk of losing my job at a moments notice because I can be fired for no reason" maybe you'd have a point.

But it's not
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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6/1/2017 2:35:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 12:27:06 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/1/2017 6:54:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:25:06 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.

Exploitation will always happen in a non-egalitarian society. There's no feasible way to prevent it sans genetic engineering or cloning.

Exploitation isn't the point though, it's the capacity to become self sufficient through owning property which is at stake. A society of small holders is much better in that regard than one of oligarchical control. Things like contract law, technology, and market economics can be divorced from the capitalist distribution scheme and international trade principles, seeing as they predate the rise of both conditions.

There's actually a lot of people that refuse to accept the burdens and responsibilities of ownership. Many people choose to rent and lease. Would you want to see a policy of mandated ownership?
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
Archaholic
Posts: 1,875
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6/1/2017 3:27:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 2:35:12 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:27:06 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/1/2017 6:54:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:25:06 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.

Exploitation will always happen in a non-egalitarian society. There's no feasible way to prevent it sans genetic engineering or cloning.

Exploitation isn't the point though, it's the capacity to become self sufficient through owning property which is at stake. A society of small holders is much better in that regard than one of oligarchical control. Things like contract law, technology, and market economics can be divorced from the capitalist distribution scheme and international trade principles, seeing as they predate the rise of both conditions.

There's actually a lot of people that refuse to accept the burdens and responsibilities of ownership. Many people choose to rent and lease. Would you want to see a policy of mandated ownership?

I can understand that some owners work really hard not just to make their business work but also to boost the economy of their towns or cities, creating jobs and improving society's well-being. Nevertheless, the problem of inequality and unjustice in this world is in those who don't give a sh!t about society, trying to find shortcuts to get richer and richer, paying low salaries, taking advantage of the legal void to speculate and get the most out of the market, abusing the credit figure at the expense of people and government, avoiding paying taxes, caring less about environmental issues, and an endless etcetera.

Most of them are the top richest, greedy people who only care about them and about gathering the most out of the world. In fact, I think they're the real human scam. But the most striking thing is why we allow this to happen?

It's true that it's impossible to get financial equality among people, but at the very least we've got to make effort to reduce the current inequality. A good start would be taking these people down.

BR
Quadrunner
Posts: 5,509
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6/1/2017 5:01:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 3:27:32 PM, Archaholic wrote:
At 6/1/2017 2:35:12 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:27:06 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/1/2017 6:54:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:25:06 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.

Exploitation will always happen in a non-egalitarian society. There's no feasible way to prevent it sans genetic engineering or cloning.

Exploitation isn't the point though, it's the capacity to become self sufficient through owning property which is at stake. A society of small holders is much better in that regard than one of oligarchical control. Things like contract law, technology, and market economics can be divorced from the capitalist distribution scheme and international trade principles, seeing as they predate the rise of both conditions.

There's actually a lot of people that refuse to accept the burdens and responsibilities of ownership. Many people choose to rent and lease. Would you want to see a policy of mandated ownership?

I can understand that some owners work really hard not just to make their business work but also to boost the economy of their towns or cities, creating jobs and improving society's well-being. Nevertheless, the problem of inequality and unjustice in this world is in those who don't give a sh!t about society, trying to find shortcuts to get richer and richer, paying low salaries, taking advantage of the legal void to speculate and get the most out of the market, abusing the credit figure at the expense of people and government, avoiding paying taxes, caring less about environmental issues, and an endless etcetera.

Most of them are the top richest, greedy people who only care about them and about gathering the most out of the world. In fact, I think they're the real human scam. But the most striking thing is why we allow this to happen?

It's true that it's impossible to get financial equality among people, but at the very least we've got to make effort to reduce the current inequality. A good start would be taking these people down.

BR

I recognize the obvious influence that needs to be kept in the open and addressed. Shouldn't the approach be taken in direct perspective of equipping lower classes to rise up though?
Archaholic
Posts: 1,875
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6/1/2017 6:38:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 5:01:07 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 6/1/2017 3:27:32 PM, Archaholic wrote:
At 6/1/2017 2:35:12 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:27:06 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/1/2017 6:54:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:25:06 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.

Exploitation will always happen in a non-egalitarian society. There's no feasible way to prevent it sans genetic engineering or cloning.

Exploitation isn't the point though, it's the capacity to become self sufficient through owning property which is at stake. A society of small holders is much better in that regard than one of oligarchical control. Things like contract law, technology, and market economics can be divorced from the capitalist distribution scheme and international trade principles, seeing as they predate the rise of both conditions.

There's actually a lot of people that refuse to accept the burdens and responsibilities of ownership. Many people choose to rent and lease. Would you want to see a policy of mandated ownership?

I can understand that some owners work really hard not just to make their business work but also to boost the economy of their towns or cities, creating jobs and improving society's well-being. Nevertheless, the problem of inequality and unjustice in this world is in those who don't give a sh!t about society, trying to find shortcuts to get richer and richer, paying low salaries, taking advantage of the legal void to speculate and get the most out of the market, abusing the credit figure at the expense of people and government, avoiding paying taxes, caring less about environmental issues, and an endless etcetera.

Most of them are the top richest, greedy people who only care about them and about gathering the most out of the world. In fact, I think they're the real human scam. But the most striking thing is why we allow this to happen?

It's true that it's impossible to get financial equality among people, but at the very least we've got to make effort to reduce the current inequality. A good start would be taking these people down.

BR

I recognize the obvious influence that needs to be kept in the open and addressed. Shouldn't the approach be taken in direct perspective of equipping lower classes to rise up though?

How would you make the impoverished people rise up if most of the resources of this planet are owned by the rich? This is a problem of distribution because world's resources are limited, and governments play an important role in this process. I'm obviously talking about government control which is an obscene word among the rich.

There are many ways to make this distribution fairer, which the main are taxes and social programs. In doing so, goverments gurantee that everyone has the same opportunities to thrive.
Quadrunner
Posts: 5,509
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6/1/2017 6:58:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 6:38:32 PM, Archaholic wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:01:07 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 6/1/2017 3:27:32 PM, Archaholic wrote:
At 6/1/2017 2:35:12 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:27:06 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/1/2017 6:54:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:25:06 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.

Exploitation will always happen in a non-egalitarian society. There's no feasible way to prevent it sans genetic engineering or cloning.

Exploitation isn't the point though, it's the capacity to become self sufficient through owning property which is at stake. A society of small holders is much better in that regard than one of oligarchical control. Things like contract law, technology, and market economics can be divorced from the capitalist distribution scheme and international trade principles, seeing as they predate the rise of both conditions.

There's actually a lot of people that refuse to accept the burdens and responsibilities of ownership. Many people choose to rent and lease. Would you want to see a policy of mandated ownership?

I can understand that some owners work really hard not just to make their business work but also to boost the economy of their towns or cities, creating jobs and improving society's well-being. Nevertheless, the problem of inequality and unjustice in this world is in those who don't give a sh!t about society, trying to find shortcuts to get richer and richer, paying low salaries, taking advantage of the legal void to speculate and get the most out of the market, abusing the credit figure at the expense of people and government, avoiding paying taxes, caring less about environmental issues, and an endless etcetera.

Most of them are the top richest, greedy people who only care about them and about gathering the most out of the world. In fact, I think they're the real human scam. But the most striking thing is why we allow this to happen?

It's true that it's impossible to get financial equality among people, but at the very least we've got to make effort to reduce the current inequality. A good start would be taking these people down.

BR

I recognize the obvious influence that needs to be kept in the open and addressed. Shouldn't the approach be taken in direct perspective of equipping lower classes to rise up though?

How would you make the impoverished people rise up if most of the resources of this planet are owned by the rich? This is a problem of distribution because world's resources are limited, and governments play an important role in this process. I'm obviously talking about government control which is an obscene word among the rich.

There are many ways to make this distribution fairer, which the main are taxes and social programs. In doing so, goverments gurantee that everyone has the same opportunities to thrive.

I'm not really interested in fairness really. If one person buildsa house into a castle whilst 2 move from a hut to a house, and 4 move from a cave to a hut....My goal is life improvement. I want everyone to be able to own a house if they so choose. I think being born into increasing wealth and prosperity is something we should aspire to provide for the coming generations. I think that's great.

The notion that the rich becoming richer impedes people from building their own wealth is a falsehood. What we need though is to facilitate and ensure the opportunity to do so as you've stated. I think it's alway's important to recognize this so we don't get caught up in manipulation of demonizing the rich when all we really want is the opportunity to gain a foothold to build on ourselves. Blaming rich people distracts from the primary goal. Don't get me wrong, wealth distribution is a factor in calculation, but wealth inequality is irrelevant to the actual task at hand, our standard of living.

When we make wealth a privilege instead of a goal in our minds it could turn the system upside down and lower/forget the standards instead of aspiring to meet them. We get an us vs them mentality instead of what we should be doing, which is paving the way for the lower classes, including our sons and daughters and breaking our cycles of poverty.
Archaholic
Posts: 1,875
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6/1/2017 7:43:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 6:58:27 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 6/1/2017 6:38:32 PM, Archaholic wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:01:07 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 6/1/2017 3:27:32 PM, Archaholic wrote:
At 6/1/2017 2:35:12 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:27:06 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/1/2017 6:54:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:25:06 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.

Exploitation will always happen in a non-egalitarian society. There's no feasible way to prevent it sans genetic engineering or cloning.

Exploitation isn't the point though, it's the capacity to become self sufficient through owning property which is at stake. A society of small holders is much better in that regard than one of oligarchical control. Things like contract law, technology, and market economics can be divorced from the capitalist distribution scheme and international trade principles, seeing as they predate the rise of both conditions.

There's actually a lot of people that refuse to accept the burdens and responsibilities of ownership. Many people choose to rent and lease. Would you want to see a policy of mandated ownership?

I can understand that some owners work really hard not just to make their business work but also to boost the economy of their towns or cities, creating jobs and improving society's well-being. Nevertheless, the problem of inequality and unjustice in this world is in those who don't give a sh!t about society, trying to find shortcuts to get richer and richer, paying low salaries, taking advantage of the legal void to speculate and get the most out of the market, abusing the credit figure at the expense of people and government, avoiding paying taxes, caring less about environmental issues, and an endless etcetera.

Most of them are the top richest, greedy people who only care about them and about gathering the most out of the world. In fact, I think they're the real human scam. But the most striking thing is why we allow this to happen?

It's true that it's impossible to get financial equality among people, but at the very least we've got to make effort to reduce the current inequality. A good start would be taking these people down.

BR

I recognize the obvious influence that needs to be kept in the open and addressed. Shouldn't the approach be taken in direct perspective of equipping lower classes to rise up though?

How would you make the impoverished people rise up if most of the resources of this planet are owned by the rich? This is a problem of distribution because world's resources are limited, and governments play an important role in this process. I'm obviously talking about government control which is an obscene word among the rich.

There are many ways to make this distribution fairer, which the main are taxes and social programs. In doing so, goverments gurantee that everyone has the same opportunities to thrive.

I'm not really interested in fairness really. If one person buildsa house into a castle whilst 2 move from a hut to a house, and 4 move from a cave to a hut....My goal is life improvement. I want everyone to be able to own a house if they so choose. I think being born into increasing wealth and prosperity is something we should aspire to provide for the coming generations. I think that's great.

The notion that the rich becoming richer impedes people from building their own wealth is a falsehood. What we need though is to facilitate and ensure the opportunity to do so as you've stated. I think it's alway's important to recognize this so we don't get caught up in manipulation of demonizing the rich when all we really want is the opportunity to gain a foothold to build on ourselves. Blaming rich people distracts from the primary goal. Don't get me wrong, wealth distribution is a factor in calculation, but wealth inequality is irrelevant to the actual task at hand, our standard of living.

When we make wealth a privilege instead of a goal in our minds it could turn the system upside down and lower/forget the standards instead of aspiring to meet them. We get an us vs them mentality instead of what we should be doing, which is paving the way for the lower classes, including our sons and daughters and breaking our cycles of poverty.

Are you one of those who also think that everyone can be rich? Lol. Seriously, dude, this is bullcrap. Besides that, you are not considering the environmental issues as to how people are depleting the natural resources. Being wealthy means consuming more resources, and if you pretend to make unfortunate people become wealthy without the need of taking the needed resources from the rich, it means that you necessarily have to deplete the scarce natural resources. So, whether you want it or not, the best way to approach this problem is reducing the rich population in order to distribute better the world's resources.

I think it's not difficult to understand. What's more, in doing so you will benefit millions of people in contrast to the few billionaires that are going to lose a small percentage of their wealth.

BR
Quadrunner
Posts: 5,509
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6/1/2017 8:16:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.

Exploitation will always happen in a non-egalitarian society. There's no feasible way to prevent it sans genetic engineering or cloning.

Exploitation isn't the point though, it's the capacity to become self sufficient through owning property which is at stake. A society of small holders is much better in that regard than one of oligarchical control. Things like contract law, technology, and market economics can be divorced from the capitalist distribution scheme and international trade principles, seeing as they predate the rise of both conditions.

There's actually a lot of people that refuse to accept the burdens and responsibilities of ownership. Many people choose to rent and lease. Would you want to see a policy of mandated ownership?

I can understand that some owners work really hard not just to make their business work but also to boost the economy of their towns or cities, creating jobs and improving society's well-being. Nevertheless, the problem of inequality and unjustice in this world is in those who don't give a sh!t about society, trying to find shortcuts to get richer and richer, paying low salaries, taking advantage of the legal void to speculate and get the most out of the market, abusing the credit figure at the expense of people and government, avoiding paying taxes, caring less about environmental issues, and an endless etcetera.

Most of them are the top richest, greedy people who only care about them and about gathering the most out of the world. In fact, I think they're the real human scam. But the most striking thing is why we allow this to happen?

It's true that it's impossible to get financial equality among people, but at the very least we've got to make effort to reduce the current inequality. A good start would be taking these people down.

BR

I recognize the obvious influence that needs to be kept in the open and addressed. Shouldn't the approach be taken in direct perspective of equipping lower classes to rise up though?

How would you make the impoverished people rise up if most of the resources of this planet are owned by the rich? This is a problem of distribution because world's resources are limited, and governments play an important role in this process. I'm obviously talking about government control which is an obscene word among the rich.

There are many ways to make this distribution fairer, which the main are taxes and social programs. In doing so, goverments gurantee that everyone has the same opportunities to thrive.

I'm not really interested in fairness really. If one person buildsa house into a castle whilst 2 move from a hut to a house, and 4 move from a cave to a hut....My goal is life improvement. I want everyone to be able to own a house if they so choose. I think being born into increasing wealth and prosperity is something we should aspire to provide for the coming generations. I think that's great.

The notion that the rich becoming richer impedes people from building their own wealth is a falsehood. What we need though is to facilitate and ensure the opportunity to do so as you've stated. I think it's alway's important to recognize this so we don't get caught up in manipulation of demonizing the rich when all we really want is the opportunity to gain a foothold to build on ourselves. Blaming rich people distracts from the primary goal. Don't get me wrong, wealth distribution is a factor in calculation, but wealth inequality is irrelevant to the actual task at hand, our standard of living.

When we make wealth a privilege instead of a goal in our minds it could turn the system upside down and lower/forget the standards instead of aspiring to meet them. We get an us vs them mentality instead of what we should be doing, which is paving the way for the lower classes, including our sons and daughters and breaking our cycles of poverty.

Are you one of those who also think that everyone can be rich? Lol. Seriously, dude, this is bullcrap.

No, I believe every family can accumulate wealth and we should continually raise our standard of living. I recognize standard of living as the bar to measure society by.

Besides that, you are not considering the environmental issues as to how people are depleting the natural resources. Being wealthy means consuming more resources, and if you pretend to make unfortunate people become wealthy without the need of taking the needed resources from the rich, it means that you necessarily have to deplete the scarce natural resources. So, whether you want it or not, the best way to approach this problem is reducing the rich population in order to distribute better the world's resources.

Being wealthy, means having wealth. Wealth does not consume. It's a resource one can tap into freely. Building wealth requires providing service to a consumer. Let's say I decide to build a house, but don't want to take on debt. I work and get reimbursed for my services, converting some of my extra capital into material wealth, constructing a little more and a little more over time. Eventually I have a house worth more than I put into it, which consumes nothing but standard maintenance. This house is representative of wealth. Once it's built the consumption has already occured. Building more wealth requires more consumption, but being wealthy does not mean being wastful. Wealth does not equal income. Profitability builds wealth. Failing to teach that to those who need it most is a travesty.

Environmental standards need to be on the table, but ultimately we are talking about two separate issues. I recognize the necessity of consumption obviously, but don't consider consumption to be an issue when it's done correctly.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 9,514
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6/1/2017 8:51:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 2:35:12 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:27:06 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/1/2017 6:54:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:25:06 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.

Exploitation will always happen in a non-egalitarian society. There's no feasible way to prevent it sans genetic engineering or cloning.

Exploitation isn't the point though, it's the capacity to become self sufficient through owning property which is at stake. A society of small holders is much better in that regard than one of oligarchical control. Things like contract law, technology, and market economics can be divorced from the capitalist distribution scheme and international trade principles, seeing as they predate the rise of both conditions.

There's actually a lot of people that refuse to accept the burdens and responsibilities of ownership. Many people choose to rent and lease. Would you want to see a policy of mandated ownership?

This is a real problem, as ownership is very much a culture which has atrophied to some degree. But it is a culture which arose out of abject servility, so it is demonstrably capable of being salvaged. What this indicates is that any solution must be holistic, and not just a simple economic redistribution. People don't exist in a vacuum, and it is possible to institutionally nudge them to behave in certain ways. Just look at how we've transformed from a society of small holders to one with a largely servile underclass and an ever shrinking upper echelon of property owners: through institutional manipulation.
"Partout ou vous verrez un autel, la se trouve la civilisation."
- Joseph de Maistre -

"Woe that I live in bitter days,
As God is setting like a sun
And in his place, as lord and slave,
Man raises forth his heinous throne."
- Translation of 'Rhyfel', by Hedd Wyn -

Virtutem videant intabescantque relicta
Emilrose
Posts: 6,201
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6/1/2017 8:56:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 6:58:27 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 6/1/2017 6:38:32 PM, Archaholic wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:01:07 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 6/1/2017 3:27:32 PM, Archaholic wrote:
At 6/1/2017 2:35:12 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:27:06 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/1/2017 6:54:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:25:06 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.

Exploitation will always happen in a non-egalitarian society. There's no feasible way to prevent it sans genetic engineering or cloning.

Exploitation isn't the point though, it's the capacity to become self sufficient through owning property which is at stake. A society of small holders is much better in that regard than one of oligarchical control. Things like contract law, technology, and market economics can be divorced from the capitalist distribution scheme and international trade principles, seeing as they predate the rise of both conditions.

There's actually a lot of people that refuse to accept the burdens and responsibilities of ownership. Many people choose to rent and lease. Would you want to see a policy of mandated ownership?

I can understand that some owners work really hard not just to make their business work but also to boost the economy of their towns or cities, creating jobs and improving society's well-being. Nevertheless, the problem of inequality and unjustice in this world is in those who don't give a sh!t about society, trying to find shortcuts to get richer and richer, paying low salaries, taking advantage of the legal void to speculate and get the most out of the market, abusing the credit figure at the expense of people and government, avoiding paying taxes, caring less about environmental issues, and an endless etcetera.

Most of them are the top richest, greedy people who only care about them and about gathering the most out of the world. In fact, I think they're the real human scam. But the most striking thing is why we allow this to happen?

It's true that it's impossible to get financial equality among people, but at the very least we've got to make effort to reduce the current inequality. A good start would be taking these people down.

BR

I recognize the obvious influence that needs to be kept in the open and addressed. Shouldn't the approach be taken in direct perspective of equipping lower classes to rise up though?

How would you make the impoverished people rise up if most of the resources of this planet are owned by the rich? This is a problem of distribution because world's resources are limited, and governments play an important role in this process. I'm obviously talking about government control which is an obscene word among the rich.

There are many ways to make this distribution fairer, which the main are taxes and social programs. In doing so, goverments gurantee that everyone has the same opportunities to thrive.

I'm not really interested in fairness really. If one person buildsa house into a castle whilst 2 move from a hut to a house, and 4 move from a cave to a hut....My goal is life improvement. I want everyone to be able to own a house if they so choose. I think being born into increasing wealth and prosperity is something we should aspire to provide for the coming generations. I think that's great.

The notion that the rich becoming richer impedes people from building their own wealth is a falsehood.

Generally it is not in the interest of the said 'richer' to nourish economic growth of the poorer, historically this has been pretty much the issue with poverty. For example if you have what would be considered a very wealthy person and/or body, charging or demanding an unreasonable amount (of money) from a significantly poorer person, how are they not impeding their growth?

I suppose one example would be privatized organizations primarily meant for public usage (such as a train service), now, the key focus of theirs has become profit--despite the fact that there may be people of a lower income that use that particular service; the same can in fact apply to any company that specifically looks for monetary gain, but not necessarily at a cheap rate. What you're basically saying is that all people need to miraculously get rich or they're fvcked, which is extremely poor logic.

What we need though is to facilitate and ensure the opportunity to do so as you've stated. I think it's alway's important to recognize this so we don't get caught up in manipulation of demonizing the rich when all we really want is the opportunity to gain a foothold to build on ourselves. Blaming rich people distracts from the primary goal. Don't get me wrong, wealth distribution is a factor in calculation, but wealth inequality is irrelevant to the actual task at hand, our standard of living.

When we make wealth a privilege instead of a goal in our minds it could turn the system upside down and lower/forget the standards instead of aspiring to meet them. We get an us vs them mentality instead of what we should be doing, which is paving the way for the lower classes, including our sons and daughters and breaking our cycles of poverty.
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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6/1/2017 9:36:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 8:51:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/1/2017 2:35:12 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 12:27:06 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/1/2017 6:54:52 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2017 5:25:06 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/31/2017 7:10:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone exploits because they can. There are stupid people in the world and there are smart people. There exists ambitions driven people, and then there are lazy people. There will never be an egalitarian society where everyone behaves exactly the same and has exactly the same biological abilities. Never gonna happen. Until that time, exploitation is the inescapable reality. Is it moral? Probably not, especially if you actually view people around you in your mind as equals, despite the obvious differences.

But everyone exploits.
Rich people exploit, poor people exploit.
Employers exploit, workers exploit.

There's no outrage when workers go on strike and force an employer to declare bankruptcy due to unreasonable demands. Ask that employer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when the laws of the land won't allow him to hire the necessary labor to keep him from losing his business, his house and his family. Ask that rich taxpayer if he doesn't feel like a victim of exploitation when a poor person demands through the ballot box that he pay for all of his necessities in life, including a phone and a house.

We will never have a society where all incomes are flat. There will always be unequal wealth distribution because people themselves are unequal. A society that doesn't exploit is a society of bio-engineered, institutionalized clones. Count me out.

The modern left has been focusing on the 'exploitation' narrative in entirely the wrong way, hence their utter failure to prevent the rapid accumulation of capital in the upper echelons of society. The goal ought to be to more evenly distribute the means of production; to try to fight 'exploitation' while the present model worsens is just suicidal.

Exploitation will always happen in a non-egalitarian society. There's no feasible way to prevent it sans genetic engineering or cloning.

Exploitation isn't the point though, it's the capacity to become self sufficient through owning property which is at stake. A society of small holders is much better in that regard than one of oligarchical control. Things like contract law, technology, and market economics can be divorced from the capitalist distribution scheme and international trade principles, seeing as they predate the rise of both conditions.

There's actually a lot of people that refuse to accept the burdens and responsibilities of ownership. Many people choose to rent and lease. Would you want to see a policy of mandated ownership?

This is a real problem, as ownership is very much a culture which has atrophied to some degree. But it is a culture which arose out of abject servility, so it is demonstrably capable of being salvaged. What this indicates is that any solution must be holistic, and not just a simple economic redistribution. People don't exist in a vacuum, and it is possible to institutionally nudge them to behave in certain ways. Just look at how we've transformed from a society of small holders to one with a largely servile underclass and an ever shrinking upper echelon of property owners: through institutional manipulation.

We still have plenty of incentives for ownership of housing though...people are just not choosing it. Credit for small business loans are readily available for the flimsiest of business plans, but most people do not want the responsibility. That's the tradeoff that "exploited" workers FREELY choose, a hassle free paycheck for x amount of hours worked that is not dependant on any other variable that they would otherwise have to be responsible for as a property owner. They also get the luxury of being able to terminate their work contract at the drop of a hat, with no financial strings or any responsibilities whatsoever. Giving irresponsible people property, or forcing them to own property is a waste, and a potential disaster for the country.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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6/1/2017 10:18:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/1/2017 8:56:27 PM, Emilrose wrote:

Generally it is not in the interest of the said 'richer' to nourish economic growth of the poorer, historically this has been pretty much the issue with poverty. For example if you have what would be considered a very wealthy person and/or body, charging or demanding an unreasonable amount (of money) from a significantly poorer person, how are they not impeding their growth?
http://www.youtube.com...

We have a thing in the USA called WALMART which sells primarily to poor people at reduced rates. WALMART has done more to reduce actual poverty than any government program. And it's a capitalist construct. There are hundreds of copycats trying to be as profitable as WALMART.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.

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