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What is feminism? Equality or something else?

Stupidape
Posts: 650
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6/15/2018 4:39:44 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
I'm wondering are feminists truly aiming for equality or has feminism taken a wrong turn? Has the goal of feminism been diverted from equality to taking down of patriarchy? If so, is patriarchy good or bad? Is it dangerous to change the status quo so drastically? The author of the below article thinks that Feminism has diverged from egalitarianism.

"the logical inconsistencies and totalitarian mission creep of feminism" When Is a Feminist Not a Feminist?
Feminism vs. egalitarianism

Posted Dec 18, 2015

I think all in all we need to take a critical look at feminism and make sure it matches its definition.

Source.
https://www.psychologytoday.com...
tejretics
Posts: 6,865
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6/15/2018 7:48:14 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 6/15/2018 4:39:44 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Has the goal of feminism been diverted from equality to taking down of patriarchy?

Yes.

If so, is patriarchy good or bad?

Bad.

Is it dangerous to change the status quo so drastically?

Nope.

https://www.psychologytoday.com...

The author makes the following claims:

(1) Feminism has diverted from egalitarianism to trying to end the patriarchy. Correct.

(2) Feminism assumes the existence of patriarchy. Correct, although that's a fair assumption to make.

(3) Patriarchy isn't due to men hating women. I haven't heard a single feminist say that it is.

(4) "Patriarchy might liberate people." No warrant. That's just a bare assertion.

(5) "Men want power and resources because women want men who have power and resources," i.e. the idea that gender is biologically essentialist. Two responses: (a) Doesn't mean we should buy into it, not everything biologically enshrined is morally correct. (b) It's a bare assertion.

(6) Stuff about how cis women face more oppression than trans women. (a) While they might face different kinds of oppression, given that trans women have to go through transphobia as well, I'd say the oppression is about equal. (b) There's a legitimate debate among feminists about this. This argument doesn't really go far in justifying the author's original point.
Just because you're magic doesn't mean you aren't real.
FungusOfHam
Posts: 2,360
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6/15/2018 8:11:21 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 6/15/2018 4:39:44 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I'm wondering are feminists truly aiming for equality or has feminism taken a wrong turn? Has the goal of feminism been diverted from equality to taking down of patriarchy? If so, is patriarchy good or bad? Is it dangerous to change the status quo so drastically? The author of the below article thinks that Feminism has diverged from egalitarianism.

"the logical inconsistencies and totalitarian mission creep of feminism" When Is a Feminist Not a Feminist?
Feminism vs. egalitarianism

Posted Dec 18, 2015

I think all in all we need to take a critical look at feminism and make sure it matches its definition.

Source.
https://www.psychologytoday.com...::

The feminism of the past was a normal reaction to legitimately not being equal.

The feminism of today is a replacement or a swap. Notice that the female feminists of today act like men, and the male feminists act like women.

Men are made to look like clowns on tv.

Why? Marxism demands the destruction of societal norms in order to get to its ends. Destroy the family, destroy marriage, destroy religion (Christianity to be specific. Marx lived in a Catholic country), destroy academia, destroy the media, destroy the Constitution, destroy movies, destroy Capitalism, and destroy those wjo stand in its way, and burn it all down. Now this foundational "religion" has branched out to destroying gender roles, gender definitions, and even the concept of even being female.

Make no mistake about it. This is by design. Of course, the group funding the media, social programs, academia, Hollywood, etc are millionaire and billionaire Marxists.

https://www.mrc.org...

https://www.mrc.org...

Marxists dream of an open borders, nationless, communist world. They invision a world where everything is hunky dory, no starving, no money, free healthcare, and on and on. So? They must destroy Conservatism, destroy the West, and destroy the big boy of the West...America.
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,952
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6/15/2018 8:32:06 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 6/15/2018 8:11:21 PM, FungusOfHam wrote:

The feminism of the past was a normal reaction to legitimately not being equal.

Mostly it was an natural evolution of the women's social roles post industrial revolution where productivity no longer required raw muscle power due to machinery. Women filled many productive roles in textile factories but were not compensated adequately for it. Moreover, they were not respected in society for earning their own keep, married or unmarried. Early feminism's main goal was to shatter social barriers that allowed women to pursue careers that fulfilled them and gave them a purpose in society other than being a baby factory.
The feminism of today is a replacement or a swap. Notice that the female feminists of today act like men, and the male feminists act like women.

Correct. Today's feminism completely rejects the biology of the sexes. Instead of fighting for alternative societal roles, traditional family roles are now ridiculed and shunned. Single motherhood is celebrated, and men are now considered the baby factories. Women today also feel entitled to any money a man has as well to make up for the historical demands men used to have on women for sex. It's no wonder toxic feminism has created legions of MGTOWs more than willing to never have a serious relationship with a woman.
Men are made to look like clowns on tv.

A reversal of the traditional portrayal of women pre industrial revolution.
Why? Marxism demands the destruction of societal norms in order to get to its ends. Destroy the family, destroy marriage, destroy religion (Christianity to be specific. Marx lived in a Catholic country), destroy academia, destroy the media, destroy the Constitution, destroy movies, destroy Capitalism, and destroy those wjo stand in its way, and burn it all down. Now this foundational "religion" has branched out to destroying gender roles, gender definitions, and even the concept of even being female.
Make no mistake about it. This is by design. Of course, the group funding the media, social programs, academia, Hollywood, etc are millionaire and billionaire Marxists.

https://www.mrc.org...

https://www.mrc.org...

Marxists dream of an open borders, nationless, communist world. They envision a world where everything is hunky dory, no starving, no money, free healthcare, and on and on. So? They must destroy Conservatism, destroy the West, and destroy the big boy of the West...America.

It's no secret that most feminists are Marxists, but that is due to a misguided vision of egalitarianism more than anything else.

There is no greater natural disparity between 2 people than their xx or xy chromosomes. Egalitarianism ignores this.

I have far more in common with a random black man than I ever will with a random white woman.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
Stupidape
Posts: 650
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6/17/2018 4:13:25 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 6/15/2018 7:48:14 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/15/2018 4:39:44 AM, Stupidape wrote:
Has the goal of feminism been diverted from equality to taking down of patriarchy?

Yes.

If so, is patriarchy good or bad?

Bad.

Is it dangerous to change the status quo so drastically?

Nope.

https://www.psychologytoday.com...

The author makes the following claims:

(1) Feminism has diverted from egalitarianism to trying to end the patriarchy. Correct.

(2) Feminism assumes the existence of patriarchy. Correct, although that's a fair assumption to make.

(3) Patriarchy isn't due to men hating women. I haven't heard a single feminist say that it is.

(4) "Patriarchy might liberate people." No warrant. That's just a bare assertion.

(5) "Men want power and resources because women want men who have power and resources," i.e. the idea that gender is biologically essentialist. Two responses: (a) Doesn't mean we should buy into it, not everything biologically enshrined is morally correct. (b) It's a bare assertion.

(6) Stuff about how cis women face more oppression than trans women. (a) While they might face different kinds of oppression, given that trans women have to go through transphobia as well, I'd say the oppression is about equal. (b) There's a legitimate debate among feminists about this. This argument doesn't really go far in justifying the author's original point.

How is Patriarchy bad?
Bennett91
Posts: 8,093
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6/17/2018 5:53:18 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 6/17/2018 4:13:25 AM, Stupidape wrote:

How is Patriarchy bad?

Because it denies women political, social, and economic equality.
The Prophet Sanders preaching the Word [][]