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Facism is a left-wing Ideology

Buddamoose
Posts: 19,636
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8/6/2018 2:12:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Dinesh D'Souza recently released a book and a movie titles "death of a nation" wherein he details how the "party switch" is bullsh$t, calling Facism a right wing ideology is absurd, and how today's Democrats are in fact, ripping authoritarian elements of Facism straight from its creator... Giovanni Gentile(Gen-tea-lay).

Gentile was born in 1875 and his writing not only largely influenced, but also ghostwrote much of, Benito Mussolini's own Facist Doctrine. Gentile, its important to point out, *hated* liberal democracy, and saw it as weak. *True Democracy* to him was a democracy in which everyone willingly subordinates to the state. The state itself was to become the ultimate "family unit", much like Marx and his want for society, without the state, to become the same thing.

Gentile's creation was, nonetheless, heavily socialistic, and rooted in identity politics. Except, wherein Marx reduced conflict to one of class and wrote off all else as a "superconstruct", Gentile reduced the conflict to one of *CLASS AND NATION*.

This is where the conflation of Facism = right wing, comes in. Many conflate nationalism with being right wing. That's BS, the USSR was heavily nationalistic, so is North Korea, so is China, so was Cambodia, and so on so forth down the list of Marxist regimes. Nationalism doesn't inherently mean right wing ideology.

This is just a short little synopsis, but if you are interested in reading on Gentile,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

You can find his works there, as well as a brief synopsis.

D'Souzas movie, "Death of a Nation" is out in theatres as well as the same titled book that was released concurrently. If I may humbly suggest watching the film and reading the book, they are terrific and are starting to spread like wildfire. Which is good, the truth will always find a way :)
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,636
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8/6/2018 2:30:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Inb4

"Muh Nixon and the Southern Strat"

Ah yes, ignoring Nixon was a paranoid cunt who said many a wtf thing, lets examine that.

>Appealing to racists
>Passing Affirmative Action

Something aint quite adding up here :S
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Leaning
Posts: 2,783
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8/6/2018 5:29:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
From what little I've read, Communist Russia in the early days tried to make a push for international Communism. People like Trotsky for instance pushed that, yet at the same time I think always fell back into the line of supporting Russia when he thought it was in danger, never mind that it did not support him.

Stalin on the other hand was the one pushing for Socialism in One Country.

Also I suspect some other Communists in other countries were initially interested in Communism being everywhere not divided. But didn't work out it looks.
Buddamoose
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8/6/2018 6:06:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2018 5:29:31 PM, Leaning wrote:
From what little I've read, Communist Russia in the early days tried to make a push for international Communism. People like Trotsky for instance pushed that, yet at the same time I think always fell back into the line of supporting Russia when he thought it was in danger, never mind that it did not support him.

Stalin on the other hand was the one pushing for Socialism in One Country.

Also I suspect some other Communists in other countries were initially interested in Communism being everywhere not divided. But didn't work out it looks.

This is a good point. If im not mistaken Trotsky's original vision was that the Russian Revolution would in essence spark a global one? That obviously didn't happen, so its not surprising in the least they'd resort to incorporating parts of Facist doctrine as a crutch to that kind of idealism.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Leaning
Posts: 2,783
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8/6/2018 6:19:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yes.

I believe it was. History (I think) tends to see Trotsky as lighter shade of gray compared to black mark Stalin's name usually gets. Though I think it's hard to tell just how terrible Trotsky 'might' have been if he had ended up in power instead, hard to tell.

I'm not sure about early Russian Communism being Left or Right wing though. From what I remember reading Trotsky was Left Wing but did not advocate his policies to the extreme that Stalin later would.

As I recall reading Stalin took a more middle or right wing view in the beginning, but only so he could gain control of the political party machine and exile Trotsky. 'After' he had enough clout Stalin followed many of the programs that Trotsky had advocated earlier but to horrific extremes. Which confused a number of his party members I think, since they had screamed and hollered so much earlier at the evil of the Trotskyists f they were to come to power. Then they followed a number of their programs, but again to horrific extremes.
triangle.128k
Posts: 5,127
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8/6/2018 10:20:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2018 2:12:30 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Dinesh D'Souza recently released a book and a movie titles "death of a nation" wherein he details how the "party switch" is bullsh$t, calling Facism a right wing ideology is absurd, and how today's Democrats are in fact, ripping authoritarian elements of Facism straight from its creator... Giovanni Gentile(Gen-tea-lay).

Gentile was born in 1875 and his writing not only largely influenced, but also ghostwrote much of, Benito Mussolini's own Facist Doctrine. Gentile, its important to point out, *hated* liberal democracy, and saw it as weak. *True Democracy* to him was a democracy in which everyone willingly subordinates to the state. The state itself was to become the ultimate "family unit", much like Marx and his want for society, without the state, to become the same thing.

Classical Liberal thought frequently attributes fascism as submission to the state. I'd argue to the contrary, as it takes an entirely different view to the state. Fascism views the state as cultural or a part of society and the nation itself, as contrary to a simple law enforcement entity.

Gentile's creation was, nonetheless, heavily socialistic, and rooted in identity politics. Except, wherein Marx reduced conflict to one of class and wrote off all else as a "superconstruct", Gentile reduced the conflict to one of *CLASS AND NATION*.

Gentile's economic ideas are found to be manifested in National Syndicalism, which are somewhat "socialistic." The more "capitalistic" fascist economy is Corporatism, practiced by Fascist Italy (ironically contrarily to Gentile) and Salazar's Portugal.

This is where the conflation of Facism = right wing, comes in. Many conflate nationalism with being right wing. That's BS, the USSR was heavily nationalistic, so is North Korea, so is China, so was Cambodia, and so on so forth down the list of Marxist regimes. Nationalism doesn't inherently mean right wing ideology.

This is just a short little synopsis, but if you are interested in reading on Gentile,
Fascists do, however, have a touch of social conservatism. This is essentially what gives fascism its branding as "right wing." They are in very close alignment to social conservatism, even if more extreme methods are desired. Fascism advocates for a socially conservative society with a hierarchy of a sort, while radical leftism is typically more leaning towards the erasure of tradition and the promotion of progressive thought.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

You can find his works there, as well as a brief synopsis.

D'Souzas movie, "Death of a Nation" is out in theatres as well as the same titled book that was released concurrently. If I may humbly suggest watching the film and reading the book, they are terrific and are starting to spread like wildfire. Which is good, the truth will always find a way :)
Leaning
Posts: 2,783
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8/6/2018 10:52:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I can't say I understand the whole Left Wing - Right Wing concept all that much. Though what I get mostly is that left is supposed to be unconventional to standard thinking and right is sticking with convention?

Can't fascism swing either way rather easily? I would expect any Fascist country to end up as right wing once their values are taken as the standard for their country. But that doesn't really mean they can't start as left wing does it?

If it's already a rather repressive culture and country and the right wing continues to advocate that control and follow the leader, fascist but still right?

If it's a more individual peace and freedom country or something and a movement comes about saying we must give the government absolute control and socialism... Wouldn't that be unconventional thus left wing?
Swagnarok
Posts: 2,020
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8/7/2018 11:17:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Any tradition-oriented ideology can't honestly be called Left-Wing, since the Right-Wing is basically just accumulated experience on a collective scale. Fascism throwing democracy out the window may be construed as anti-traditional (since the West organically developed democracy and since centrally planning a whole society is an innovation of 19th and 20th century totalitarian ideologies), but that other than that...
Rest in Peace DDO (2007-2018)
kasmic
Posts: 1,405
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8/9/2018 6:14:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2018 2:12:30 PM, Buddamoose wrote:

I serious dont know how people take Dinesh seriously

Fascism is labeled by experts in political science as being Right-wing. Giovanni Gentile, the philosopher of fascism, claimed it was Right-wing. Neo-Nazis and white supremacists of our day largely identify as Right-Wing. Dinesh D"Souza merely redefines Right and Left so as to spread confusion and brand his political opponents.

I wrote an entire piece responding to Dinesh on Medium.

https://medium.com...
"An Unpopular Opinion" https://medium.com...

"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...
Factseeker
Posts: 447
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8/13/2018 5:07:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2018 6:14:18 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 8/6/2018 2:12:30 PM, Buddamoose wrote:

I serious dont know how people take Dinesh seriously

Fascism is labeled by experts in political science as being Right-wing. Giovanni Gentile, the philosopher of fascism, claimed it was Right-wing. Neo-Nazis and white supremacists of our day largely identify as Right-Wing. Dinesh D"Souza merely redefines Right and Left so as to spread confusion and brand his political opponents.

I wrote an entire piece responding to Dinesh on Medium.

https://medium.com...

So by "experts" you mean what? Credentialed and approved of by state sponsored academic institutions? I do not give credence to what people "identify" as, I look at what they say and what facts they can produce. After all, we live in a time when grown men identify with little girls and we have presidents who then allow them to legally enter restrooms at the same time that little girls do as a result.

Words and labels consistently get redefined as times change. All egomaniacs cleverly make use of labels while taking liberties with their meanings in order to persuade. Bottom line is two competing ideologies, even those on opposite ends of the spectrum, have plenty of similarities where ways of implementation and manipulation are invoked. And where controlling the masses and preserving the ruling class are concerned.

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