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Porn: What's your position?

Ludofl3x
Posts: 2,283
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4/6/2017 3:18:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Here's a topic everyone can identify with, according to the numbers. The consumption of pornography is nearly universal, and inversely proportional according to some studies with a state's professed 'religiosity.' Utah, for example is perennially really high in religiosity AND in the consumption of pron, when we might assume otherwise, that religious states and the adherents in them would shy away from porn. Because this site has so many religious people on it, I wanted to see if we coul dhave an honest adult discussion about it.

If you're religious, do you watch porn? Is it scritpurally forbidden? Have you EVER watched it? Is it ever okay to watch porn? What do you think about it, and why?

For my money, if you're talking about people above the age of consent, willingly participating, I've got no objection to its use or its production. But I'm an atheist, and I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes, and I'm glad when people aren't ashamed of their sexual performances. Thoughts?
Iacov
Posts: 499
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4/6/2017 3:29:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 3:18:45 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
Here's a topic everyone can identify with, according to the numbers. The consumption of pornography is nearly universal, and inversely proportional according to some studies with a state's professed 'religiosity.' Utah, for example is perennially really high in religiosity AND in the consumption of pron, when we might assume otherwise, that religious states and the adherents in them would shy away from porn. Because this site has so many religious people on it, I wanted to see if we coul dhave an honest adult discussion about it.

If you're religious, do you watch porn? Is it scritpurally forbidden? Have you EVER watched it? Is it ever okay to watch porn? What do you think about it, and why?

For my money, if you're talking about people above the age of consent, willingly participating, I've got no objection to its use or its production. But I'm an atheist, and I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes, and I'm glad when people aren't ashamed of their sexual performances. Thoughts?

Pleasing oneself is not forbidden and I do use porn.
Ludofl3x
Posts: 2,283
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4/6/2017 3:31:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 3:29:01 PM, Iacov wrote:
At 4/6/2017 3:18:45 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
Here's a topic everyone can identify with, according to the numbers. The consumption of pornography is nearly universal, and inversely proportional according to some studies with a state's professed 'religiosity.' Utah, for example is perennially really high in religiosity AND in the consumption of pron, when we might assume otherwise, that religious states and the adherents in them would shy away from porn. Because this site has so many religious people on it, I wanted to see if we coul dhave an honest adult discussion about it.

If you're religious, do you watch porn? Is it scritpurally forbidden? Have you EVER watched it? Is it ever okay to watch porn? What do you think about it, and why?

For my money, if you're talking about people above the age of consent, willingly participating, I've got no objection to its use or its production. But I'm an atheist, and I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes, and I'm glad when people aren't ashamed of their sexual performances. Thoughts?

Pleasing oneself is not forbidden and I do use porn.

In fairness, you hold a pretty niche set of beliefs, you'd have to admit. Do you base that on any texts, as more traditional religions do?
Iacov
Posts: 499
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4/6/2017 3:43:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 3:31:09 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
At 4/6/2017 3:29:01 PM, Iacov wrote:
At 4/6/2017 3:18:45 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
Here's a topic everyone can identify with, according to the numbers. The consumption of pornography is nearly universal, and inversely proportional according to some studies with a state's professed 'religiosity.' Utah, for example is perennially really high in religiosity AND in the consumption of pron, when we might assume otherwise, that religious states and the adherents in them would shy away from porn. Because this site has so many religious people on it, I wanted to see if we coul dhave an honest adult discussion about it.

If you're religious, do you watch porn? Is it scritpurally forbidden? Have you EVER watched it? Is it ever okay to watch porn? What do you think about it, and why?

For my money, if you're talking about people above the age of consent, willingly participating, I've got no objection to its use or its production. But I'm an atheist, and I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes, and I'm glad when people aren't ashamed of their sexual performances. Thoughts?

Pleasing oneself is not forbidden and I do use porn.

In fairness, you hold a pretty niche set of beliefs, you'd have to admit. Do you base that on any texts, as more traditional religions do?

You are correct I am in the religous minority. The hamaval (our religious text) makes no reference to a situation similar to porn. If a follower of Asatru was to be against porn they would likely site one of the 9 noble virtues being fidelity. Fidelity is a word that is far too often defined by it's narrow use in terms of marital fidelity. By the dictionary it simply means being faithful to someone or something. In marriage this means being true to ones vows and partner, and this has been narrowly defined as limiting ones sexual experience to one's spouse. While I have found this to be great practical advice, many treat fidelity as if there were no other ways in which one could be faithful or unfaithful. For we Asatruar fidelity is most important in terms of our faith and troth to the Gods. We must remain true to the Aesir and Vanir and to our kinsmen. Like marriage, Profession (the rite in which one enters the Asatru faith, similar to Christian confirmation or Wiccan initiation) is a sacred bond between two parties; in this case an Asatruar and the Gods. In order for such a relationship to work, both must be honest and faithful to each other.
PureX
Posts: 4,075
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4/6/2017 4:28:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is a big subject with a lot of variables. For example, I believe there is a significant difference between viewing pornography and purchasing it. I also believe there is a significant difference between the use of pornography in an artistic or political statement and the use of pornography for profit. And of course there is a significant difference between pornography produced by adults, for adults, and voluntarily, and pornography produced through the exploitation of children and unwilling or unaware adults.

In general, I am not supportive of pornography, as I believe it is degrading and exploitive even in it's "best" manifestations.
Ludofl3x
Posts: 2,283
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4/6/2017 4:35:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 4:28:29 PM, PureX wrote:
This is a big subject with a lot of variables. For example, I believe there is a significant difference between viewing pornography and purchasing it. I also believe there is a significant difference between the use of pornography in an artistic or political statement and the use of pornography for profit. And of course there is a significant difference between pornography produced by adults, for adults, and voluntarily, and pornography produced through the exploitation of children and unwilling or unaware adults.

In general, I am not supportive of pornography, as I believe it is degrading and exploitive even in it's "best" manifestations.

Can you attach a reason to any of those positions? I'm not saying they're invalid, but why you think those sorts of things is usually more interesting than what we think. What is the difference between purchasing it, and viewing it, for example? Why is it different? Is one preferable (or in your position, less reprehensible) than the other?
PureX
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4/6/2017 4:54:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 4:35:01 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
At 4/6/2017 4:28:29 PM, PureX wrote:
This is a big subject with a lot of variables. For example, I believe there is a significant difference between viewing pornography and purchasing it. I also believe there is a significant difference between the use of pornography in an artistic or political statement and the use of pornography for profit. And of course there is a significant difference between pornography produced by adults, for adults, and voluntarily, and pornography produced through the exploitation of children and unwilling or unaware adults.

In general, I am not supportive of pornography, as I believe it is degrading and exploitive even in it's "best" manifestations.

Can you attach a reason to any of those positions? I'm not saying they're invalid, but why you think those sorts of things is usually more interesting than what we think. What is the difference between purchasing it, and viewing it, for example? Why is it different? Is one preferable (or in your position, less reprehensible) than the other?

To purchase porn is to reward the production of porn for profit, which is especially exploitive. Since I do not generally believe pornography to be of positive social value, I don't believe we should support it's production. Especially monetarily.

When pornography is used as a method of expressing an artistic or political ideal, it becomes a matter of free speech, and should thereby be considered as something "more than" pornography. And should be respected and protected, accordingly.

Child porn, 'peep' porn, and other forms of porn that depict or result from illegal acts should be treated as extensions of the crimes they depict, for obvious reasons, even when it's a 'set up' and no crime has actually been committed.

Hiring actors to perform a brutal rape scene for the purpose of sexual titillation and profit should be considered in the same light as a hate-monger admonishing a crowd to commit hate crimes.
rnjs
Posts: 777
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4/6/2017 5:11:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 3:18:45 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
Here's a topic everyone can identify with, according to the numbers. The consumption of pornography is nearly universal, and inversely proportional according to some studies with a state's professed 'religiosity.' Utah, for example is perennially really high in religiosity AND in the consumption of pron, when we might assume otherwise, that religious states and the adherents in them would shy away from porn. Because this site has so many religious people on it, I wanted to see if we coul dhave an honest adult discussion about it.

If you're religious, do you watch porn? Is it scritpurally forbidden? Have you EVER watched it? Is it ever okay to watch porn? What do you think about it, and why?

For my money, if you're talking about people above the age of consent, willingly participating, I've got no objection to its use or its production. But I'm an atheist, and I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes, and I'm glad when people aren't ashamed of their sexual performances. Thoughts?

The Bible speaks against nakedness and sexual immorality especially in public, which what porn is meant for, public display.
Porn is boring and totally unreal, it often takes three to five days to shoot one 20 minute scene. Porn is also harmful to the participants as the average lifespan of a porn star is 37 years due likely to their exposure to STDs. If one is caught looking in someone's windows they would be arrested as a voyeur or peeping Tom, but if its on a computer monitor or television screen its OK
tarantula
Posts: 1,604
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4/6/2017 5:22:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 5:11:40 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 4/6/2017 3:18:45 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
Here's a topic everyone can identify with, according to the numbers. The consumption of pornography is nearly universal, and inversely proportional according to some studies with a state's professed 'religiosity.' Utah, for example is perennially really high in religiosity AND in the consumption of pron, when we might assume otherwise, that religious states and the adherents in them would shy away from porn. Because this site has so many religious people on it, I wanted to see if we coul dhave an honest adult discussion about it.

If you're religious, do you watch porn? Is it scritpurally forbidden? Have you EVER watched it? Is it ever okay to watch porn? What do you think about it, and why?

For my money, if you're talking about people above the age of consent, willingly participating, I've got no objection to its use or its production. But I'm an atheist, and I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes, and I'm glad when people aren't ashamed of their sexual performances. Thoughts?


The Bible speaks against nakedness and sexual immorality especially in public, which what porn is meant for, public display.
Porn is boring and totally unreal, it often takes three to five days to shoot one 20 minute scene. Porn is also harmful to the participants as the average lifespan of a porn star is 37 years due likely to their exposure to STDs. If one is caught looking in someone's windows they would be arrested as a voyeur or peeping Tom, but if its on a computer monitor or television screen its OK

That is funny, god is reputed to have got an unmarried girl pregnant, whilst some of the 'heroes' had sex with women other than their wives. How many concubines did Solomon have?
Ludofl3x
Posts: 2,283
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4/6/2017 6:43:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 5:11:40 PM, rnjs wrote:

The Bible speaks against nakedness and sexual immorality especially in public, which what porn is meant for, public display.
Porn is boring and totally unreal, it often takes three to five days to shoot one 20 minute scene. Porn is also harmful to the participants as the average lifespan of a porn star is 37 years due likely to their exposure to STDs. If one is caught looking in someone's windows they would be arrested as a voyeur or peeping Tom, but if its on a computer monitor or television screen its OK

Porn is not for public display. Which book and verse speaks about that, I'd like to see it to see if I agree (spoiler, I probably won't :)).

What does the logisitcs of shooting a porn have to do with your position? What if it wasn't professional porn, it was just something a couple of people filmed on their phones and posted to the internet? Is it less objectionable, or is the fact that it's not 'pro' porn make it somehow "not porn"? I presume that last sentence is a question...what if the person you were looking in on invited you to do so? That's what consensual porn is.

Where did that average age 37 year old for a porn star come from?
Ludofl3x
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4/6/2017 6:50:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 4:54:23 PM, PureX wrote:


To purchase porn is to reward the production of porn for profit, which is especially exploitive. Since I do not generally believe pornography to be of positive social value, I don't believe we should support it's production. Especially monetarily.

So these people who freely sign to do it, for a very fair wage, the ones who are clearly not exploited...they shouldn't work? The open market would say they deserve to get paid, and they do. They are supplying something for which there is a bottomless demand, and that product has never been demonstrated to have a negative societal effect. Every society since society was invented has had some form of eroticism or pornography. You can certainly say there's no positive contribution, but you cannot say without evidence that there IS a negative one.

When pornography is used as a method of expressing an artistic or political ideal, it becomes a matter of free speech, and should thereby be considered as something "more than" pornography. And should be respected and protected, accordingly.

When is porn used as an expression of political ideals? Why is that more admirable than, say, a woman being turned on by being filmed during sex, or while masturbating, even if she doesn't share it?

Child porn, 'peep' porn, and other forms of porn that depict or result from illegal acts should be treated as extensions of the crimes they depict, for obvious reasons, even when it's a 'set up' and no crime has actually been committed.

Should movies depicting these acts that are NOT porn be treated the same way as the crimes, too? This is nonsensical.

Hiring actors to perform a brutal rape scene for the purpose of sexual titillation and profit should be considered in the same light as a hate-monger admonishing a crowd to commit hate crimes.

Why? Is the porn specifically saying "go out and do this!"? If so, I agree. If not, then it's fantasy, no? If these porns depicting the darker edges of human sexuality, performed by consenting adults in all cases regardless of the acts depicted, somehow satisfy the urge in one viewer to go do it themselves, would they be considered positive?
PureX
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4/6/2017 10:36:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 6:50:13 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
At 4/6/2017 4:54:23 PM, PureX wrote:


To purchase porn is to reward the production of porn for profit, which is especially exploitive. Since I do not generally believe pornography to be of positive social value, I don't believe we should support it's production. Especially monetarily.

So these people who freely sign to do it, for a very fair wage, the ones who are clearly not exploited...they shouldn't work?

Just because we pay a woman to use her body for our pleasure doesn't mean she isn't being exploited. Even when she agrees to it, and perhaps doesn't even realize it, it's still a form of humiliation as it treats and presents her as a sexual object. And if you don't think so, then how would you feel about your wife or daughter engaging in it?

The open market would say they deserve to get paid, and they do. They are supplying something for which there is a bottomless demand, and that product has never been demonstrated to have a negative societal effect.

The open market has no concern for the welfare of the human beings that engage in it. And this particular "product" has been harming women since the camera was invented. To objectify women as sexual objects, existing for the purpose of pleasing men sexually, has caused endless wrong and unreasonable expectations of women, and endless condemnation of women, throughout human history. Pornography is really no different than prostitution, it's just a somewhat less physically invasive form.

Did you know that something like 80% of the women who engage in prostitution were sexually abused when they were children? And that something like 60% are addicted to drugs? These are not free-thinking "business women". These are women who have been taught from birth that they exist to be exploited, sexually.

Every society since society was invented has had some form of eroticism or pornography. You can certainly say there's no positive contribution, but you cannot say without evidence that there IS a negative one.

Of course there is a negative result. Treating women as sexual objects, and then condemning them for "allowing it" certainly has negative effect on women. And I think for the men who engage in this selfish and humiliating behavior, as well.

When pornography is used as a method of expressing an artistic or political ideal, it becomes a matter of free speech, and should thereby be considered as something "more than" pornography. And should be respected and protected, accordingly.

When is porn used as an expression of political ideals? Why is that more admirable than, say, a woman being turned on by being filmed during sex, or while masturbating, even if she doesn't share it?

P*ssy Riot comes to mind. And I'm sure there have been others. They use sexual titillation to draw attention to and to help exemplify their socio-political positions.

We humans can be sexually titillated by all sorts of images and behaviors. That fact does not, however, justify engaging in or promoting those behaviors for fun and profit. Some sociopaths enjoy killing women and then raping their dead bodies, but that certainly does not justify their doing so, even if they could find a woman willing to allow it. Nor does it justify someone filming it for fun and profit, either. Even though I am certain such a film would find an audience.

Payment justifies nothing. Agreement justifies nothing. The pleasure derived from creating or viewing pornography justifies nothing. It's still exploitive, and damaging, and it should be treated as a toxic social phenomena.

Child porn, 'peep' porn, and other forms of porn that depict or result from illegal acts should be treated as extensions of the crimes they depict, for obvious reasons, even when it's a 'set up' and no crime has actually been committed.

Should movies depicting these acts that are NOT porn be treated the same way as the crimes, too? This is nonsensical.

That's not what I posted, They should be treated as the socially toxic and damaging "products" that they are. Porn that depicts and glorifies criminal behavior should be banned for the same reason we ban people from deliberately inciting and encouraging other people to engage in crimes against society.

Hiring actors to perform a brutal rape scene for the purpose of sexual titillation and profit should be considered in the same light as a hate-monger admonishing a crowd to commit hate crimes.

Why? Is the porn specifically saying "go out and do this!"? If so, I agree. If not, then it's fantasy, no?

Fantasy is not innocuous, just as hate speech is not innocuous. And it should not be treated as such. One does not have to specifically advocate criminal behavior to inspire it.

If these porns depicting the darker edges of human sexuality, performed by consenting adults in all cases regardless of the acts depicted, somehow satisfy the urge in one viewer to go do it themselves, would they be considered positive?

Satisfying our urge to view or commit crimes against each other is not the relevant issue in my opinion. Treating these urges as taboo, and treating the promoting of them for fun and profit, as illegal, is. I agree we need to be careful about freedom of speech, and not getting too carried away with moral dictatorship, but some human urges and behaviors are clearly damaging to ourselves, each other, and to society as a whole, and so should be actively discouraged. Most forms of pornography fall on the negative side of the social value assessment chart, and should be discouraged to the degree that they cause harm.
rnjs
Posts: 777
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4/6/2017 11:24:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 6:43:19 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
At 4/6/2017 5:11:40 PM, rnjs wrote:

The Bible speaks against nakedness and sexual immorality especially in public, which what porn is meant for, public display.
Porn is boring and totally unreal, it often takes three to five days to shoot one 20 minute scene. Porn is also harmful to the participants as the average lifespan of a porn star is 37 years due likely to their exposure to STDs. If one is caught looking in someone's windows they would be arrested as a voyeur or peeping Tom, but if its on a computer monitor or television screen its OK

Porn is not for public display.

That's funny, porn seems to be all over the place, the internet, television, so I don't think the makers of porn intended to keep it private especially when it is one of the biggest money making industries around the world.

Which book and verse speaks about that, I'd like to see it to see if I agree (spoiler, I probably won't :)).

Don't figure you would agree either so what's the point.:

What does the logisitcs of shooting a porn have to do with your position?

Don't know what logistics has to do with it and I never mentioned it anyway.

What if it wasn't professional porn, it was just something a couple of people filmed on their phones and posted to the internet? Is it less objectionable, or is the fact that it's not 'pro' porn make it somehow "not porn"? I presume that last sentence is a question...what if the person you were looking in on invited you to do so? That's what consensual porn is.

Porn is porn, I consider the so-called soft porn or artistic porn often portrayed in movies to be porn. If someone makes their own porn for private use that is nothing to me but if it's where young children can view it that's different.


Where did that average age 37 year old for a porn star come from?

Google
Keltron
Posts: 182
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4/7/2017 2:42:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't care what other people do, but let me just relate may own experience. I was raised in a very conservative evangelical Christian family. As a kid I was fed a lot of disinformation about sex, like masturbation could cause physical and mental illness, and stuff like that. My only sex education came from porn, so my sexuality is programmed by pornography. It is kind of a vicious cycle because now, at at age 53 I can't have a relationship with women my age because they aren't skinny and young, and I don't find them attractive sexually. So all I have is porn, and that really sucks.
dee-em
Posts: 10,593
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4/7/2017 4:35:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/7/2017 2:42:38 AM, Keltron wrote:
I don't care what other people do, but let me just relate may own experience. I was raised in a very conservative evangelical Christian family. As a kid I was fed a lot of disinformation about sex, like masturbation could cause physical and mental illness, and stuff like that. My only sex education came from porn, so my sexuality is programmed by pornography. It is kind of a vicious cycle because now, at at age 53 I can't have a relationship with women my age because they aren't skinny and young, and I don't find them attractive sexually. So all I have is porn, and that really sucks.

Try watching MILF and granny porn for a while.
Lying and/or abusive trolls on permanent ignore: ethang5, skipsaweirdo, dsjpk5, Polytheist_Witch, Studio-B, TKDB, Factseeker, graceofgod.
Philosophy101
Posts: 2,065
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4/7/2017 5:13:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/7/2017 2:50:57 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/6/2017 3:36:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
Doggy?

#227. The spiderman.
My missus says thanks.

Got to be reverse cowgirl.
Willows
Posts: 11,692
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4/7/2017 5:22:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I find pornography to de distasteful, degrading and should not be allowed to permeate our modern, civilized culture

Perhaps the biggest purveyor of pornography (owing to its widespread distribution) is the Bible. It is full of the most disgusting porn that would make Debbie Does Dallas look like Sesame Street.

From Sodom and Gomorrah, homosexuality depicted as perverted through to every perversion under the sun, including incest, menstrual sex and 1001 things to do and not to do with one's genitals.

Ban the Bible once and for all and we can rid our society of not only pornographic but also religious filth.
Ludofl3x
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4/7/2017 11:40:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 10:36:37 PM, PureX wrote:

Just because we pay a woman to use her body for our pleasure doesn't mean she isn't being exploited. Even when she agrees to it, and perhaps doesn't even realize it, it's still a form of humiliation as it treats and presents her as a sexual object. And if you don't think so, then how would you feel about your wife or daughter engaging in it?

Does the woman have no agency in the process or decision at any time? How can she be exploited if she is freely choosing to do it? I'm not denying there's exploitative porn, and yeah, I think that's gross, but not because it's porn, it's because it's exploitative. I guess I just don't see the necessary connection between porn and exploitation...it can be one but not the other, I think. As far as my wife or duaghter doing it, of course I'd object to my wife having sex with someone else, regardless of if it were on camera or not. My daughter has to make her own choices when she's an adult, I don't have any say it that. She's going to have sex regardless. I don't WANT her to do a porn, but is that the same as finding out when she's 24 that she sent a topless picture to someone on her phone?

The open market would say they deserve to get paid, and they do. They are supplying something for which there is a bottomless demand, and that product has never been demonstrated to have a negative societal effect.

The open market has no concern for the welfare of the human beings that engage in it. And this particular "product" has been harming women since the camera was invented. To objectify women as sexual objects, existing for the purpose of pleasing men sexually, has caused endless wrong and unreasonable expectations of women, and endless condemnation of women, throughout human history. Pornography is really no different than prostitution, it's just a somewhat less physically invasive form.

So porn specifically depicting a woman's pleasure, porn enjoyed specifically by women, is that okay? How about private porn?

Did you know that something like 80% of the women who engage in prostitution were sexually abused when they were children? And that something like 60% are addicted to drugs? These are not free-thinking "business women". These are women who have been taught from birth that they exist to be exploited, sexually.

Okay, it's terrible, but please draw the connection between this and someone letting her boyfriend film her giving him a blow job.

We humans can be sexually titillated by all sorts of images and behaviors. That fact does not, however, justify engaging in or promoting those behaviors for fun and profit. Some sociopaths enjoy killing women and then raping their dead bodies, but that certainly does not justify their doing so, even if they could find a woman willing to allow it. Nor does it justify someone filming it for fun and profit, either. Even though I am certain such a film would find an audience.

Plenty of non-porn films featuring sex scenes find audiences. We don't all go out and rape women's corpses afterward. The part in this quote I'm confused by is the "for fun" objection. If both parties find it fun, how is it harmful to either? Again, let's use a 'personal phone video' example rather than something like Vivid video.

Payment justifies nothing. Agreement justifies nothing. The pleasure derived from creating or viewing pornography justifies nothing. It's still exploitive, and damaging, and it should be treated as a toxic social phenomena.

If it were so toxic to society, why hasn't society completely unraveled? It's pervasive and has been so since the dawn of time. This is fire and brimstone talk, there's nothing to this at all. It's just your opinion, it sounds puritanical, but religious states consume more porn than non-religious ones. Why haven't these states turned into dystopic hellholes?

That's not what I posted, They should be treated as the socially toxic and damaging "products" that they are. Porn that depicts and glorifies criminal behavior should be banned for the same reason we ban people from deliberately inciting and encouraging other people to engage in crimes against society.

Should MOVIES that aren't porn depicting or glorifying criminal behavior be similarly banned?
Ludofl3x
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4/7/2017 11:46:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 11:24:52 PM, rnjs wrote:


That's funny, porn seems to be all over the place, the internet, television, so I don't think the makers of porn intended to keep it private especially when it is one of the biggest money making industries around the world.

You have a very, very broad definition of porn then. Obviously I'm not advocating that we run drive in movie theaters with huge XXX films. I'm talking about the kind of porn people consume in their homes.

Don't know what logistics has to do with it and I never mentioned it anyway.

You did: you called porn boring because it is unrealistic, and it takes 3 to 5 days to shoot a scene.

Porn is porn, I consider the so-called soft porn or artistic porn often portrayed in movies to be porn.

Basically any depiction of human sexuality to any degree = porn, then?

Where did that average age 37 year old for a porn star come from?

Google

I checked, the first page of google results was pretty heavy on faith-based institutions doing studies. I don't think that number is right, but I'm not googling it at work :).
PureX
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4/7/2017 1:05:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/7/2017 11:40:06 AM, Ludofl3x wrote:
At 4/6/2017 10:36:37 PM, PureX wrote:

Just because we pay a woman to use her body for our pleasure doesn't mean she isn't being exploited. Even when she agrees to it, and perhaps doesn't even realize it, it's still a form of humiliation as it treats and presents her as a sexual object. And if you don't think so, then how would you feel about your wife or daughter engaging in it?

Does the woman have no agency in the process or decision at any time? How can she be exploited if she is freely choosing to do it? I'm not denying there's exploitative porn, and yeah, I think that's gross, but not because it's porn, it's because it's exploitative. I guess I just don't see the necessary connection between porn and exploitation...it can be one but not the other, I think.

Sure. As I've already stated, it can be used for positive purposes. Including for pleasure. But when money becomes involved, it becomes exploitive. When degradation becomes involved, as it very often does, it becomes abusive and exploitive. When violence becomes involved, it becomes criminal (or it should).

As far as my wife or duaghter doing it, of course I'd object to my wife having sex with someone else, regardless of if it were on camera or not. My daughter has to make her own choices when she's an adult, I don't have any say it that. She's going to have sex regardless. I don't WANT her to do a porn, but is that the same as finding out when she's 24 that she sent a topless picture to someone on her phone?

My point is that you know that women are being degraded by pornography whether they agree and get paid, or not. You know it's harmful to them, which is why you don't want the women that you love, doing it. So why do you think it's OK for the women other people love to do it? Or that it's somehow not harming them?

So porn specifically depicting a woman's pleasure, porn enjoyed specifically by women, is that okay? How about private porn?

If it's made to sell, it's degrading. If it's made or shared without consent, it's degrading and exploitive. If it's made for mass consumption, it's probably degrading unless it's intended to serve some other purpose than sexual titillation.

Did you know that something like 80% of the women who engage in prostitution were sexually abused when they were children? And that something like 60% are addicted to drugs? These are not free-thinking "business women". These are women who have been taught from birth that they exist to be exploited, sexually.

Okay, it's terrible, but please draw the connection between this and someone letting her boyfriend film her giving him a blow job.

What consenting adults do in private is their own business. When they want to distribute or sell their photos to the public, for fun and profit, it becomes a social issue.

We humans can be sexually titillated by all sorts of images and behaviors. That fact does not, however, justify engaging in or promoting those behaviors for fun and profit. Some sociopaths enjoy killing women and then raping their dead bodies, but that certainly does not justify their doing so, even if they could find a woman willing to allow it. Nor does it justify someone filming it for fun and profit, either. Even though I am certain such a film would find an audience.

Plenty of non-porn films featuring sex scenes find audiences. We don't all go out and rape women's corpses afterward. The part in this quote I'm confused by is the "for fun" objection. If both parties find it fun, how is it harmful to either? Again, let's use a 'personal phone video' example rather than something like Vivid video.

When violent or exploitive pornography is shared or sold for the gratification (fun) of others it promotes the idea that humiliating and objectifying other human beings for one's own sexual gratification is acceptable behavior. This is not an idea that an intelligent, healthy society should tolerate.

Payment justifies nothing. Agreement justifies nothing. The pleasure derived from creating or viewing pornography justifies nothing. It's still exploitive, and damaging, and it should be treated as a toxic social phenomena.

If it were so toxic to society, why hasn't society completely unraveled?

Have you looked around? Our society IS unraveling. And it's unraveling because of our greed, and our selfishness, and our near total lack of concern for the well-being of our fellow citizens, and our fellow human beings. Exactly the exploitive and degrading attitude that pornography promotes.

I'm certainly not blaming our 'fall' on pornography, but it is a significant component in a social system that's based on our exploiting and abusing each other for our own fun and profit. We call it "free enterprise". But it's costing us everything, and it is clearly destroying us as a nation.

It's pervasive and has been so since the dawn of time.

No it hasn't. Photography has only been around a few hundred years. And even with that, it was still unobtainable in many parts of the country, and the world. Now, with the internet, it's easily available to any man, woman, or child with a computer.

This is fire and brimstone talk, there's nothing to this at all. It's just your opinion, it sounds puritanical, but religious states consume more porn than non-religious ones. Why haven't these states turned into dystopic hellholes?

This has nothing to do with religion. You're just spewing nonsense while you try to convince yourself that you're right.

That's not what I posted, They should be treated as the socially toxic and damaging "products" that they are. Porn that depicts and glorifies criminal behavior should be banned for the same reason we ban people from deliberately inciting and encouraging other people to engage in crimes against society.

Should MOVIES that aren't porn depicting or glorifying criminal behavior be similarly banned?

I have not suggested banning pornography. Only banning the sexual exploitation and humiliation of human beings for the gratification of selfishness, and our endless lust for profit.

The Unites States is one of the most violent nations on the planet. And a lot of that violence is being committed by men, against women. The United States is also the producer and consumer of vast numbers of violent and sexually exploitive movies. So it turns out that seeing these behaviors in theaters does effect how we think about them in real life.

With freedom comes responsibility. But as a society, we have not been taking responsibility for the ideals and behaviors that we've been conveying and accepting, socially. And it has cost us. We are now less free, and more exploited than we have been in a century. We have not protected ourselves, from ourselves. We have not minded our collective well-being, and our collective well-being has been diminishing, dramatically. The huge increase in the availability and profits in porno are just a part of this, but they are a part of it.
rnjs
Posts: 777
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4/7/2017 11:45:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/7/2017 11:46:29 AM, Ludofl3x wrote:
At 4/6/2017 11:24:52 PM, rnjs wrote:


That's funny, porn seems to be all over the place, the internet, television, so I don't think the makers of porn intended to keep it private especially when it is one of the biggest money making industries around the world.

You have a very, very broad definition of porn then. Obviously I'm not advocating that we run drive in movie theaters with huge XXX films. I'm talking about the kind of porn people consume in their homes.

Don't know what logistics has to do with it and I never mentioned it anyway.

You did: you called porn boring because it is unrealistic, and it takes 3 to 5 days to shoot a scene.


No I said it is boring and unrealistic, it doesn't represent real life.

Porn is porn, I consider the so-called soft porn or artistic porn often portrayed in movies to be porn.

Basically any depiction of human sexuality to any degree = porn, then?


Pretty much, yeah.

Where did that average age 37 year old for a porn star come from?

Google

I checked, the first page of google results was pretty heavy on faith-based institutions doing studies. I don't think that number is right, but I'm not googling it at work :).

So, look it up at home.
Keltron
Posts: 182
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4/8/2017 4:01:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/7/2017 4:35:31 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/7/2017 2:42:38 AM, Keltron wrote:
I don't care what other people do, but let me just relate may own experience. I was raised in a very conservative evangelical Christian family. As a kid I was fed a lot of disinformation about sex, like masturbation could cause physical and mental illness, and stuff like that. My only sex education came from porn, so my sexuality is programmed by pornography. It is kind of a vicious cycle because now, at at age 53 I can't have a relationship with women my age because they aren't skinny and young, and I don't find them attractive sexually. So all I have is porn, and that really sucks.

Try watching MILF and granny porn for a while.

Ew! That would be like doing your nanna.
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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4/8/2017 5:38:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/7/2017 2:50:57 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/6/2017 3:36:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
Doggy?

#227. The spiderman.
My missus says thanks.
My pleassure! LOL
Fatihah
Posts: 9,735
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4/8/2017 12:16:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/6/2017 3:18:45 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
Here's a topic everyone can identify with, according to the numbers. The consumption of pornography is nearly universal, and inversely proportional according to some studies with a state's professed 'religiosity.' Utah, for example is perennially really high in religiosity AND in the consumption of pron, when we might assume otherwise, that religious states and the adherents in them would shy away from porn. Because this site has so many religious people on it, I wanted to see if we coul dhave an honest adult discussion about it.

If you're religious, do you watch porn? Is it scritpurally forbidden? Have you EVER watched it? Is it ever okay to watch porn? What do you think about it, and why?

For my money, if you're talking about people above the age of consent, willingly participating, I've got no objection to its use or its production. But I'm an atheist, and I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes, and I'm glad when people aren't ashamed of their sexual performances. Thoughts?

Response: Sex is something that is a very intimate and special feeling that inspires the strongest of love and chemistry between two people. Like anything else that is special, once it is given or shared with someone else who does not value it in the same manner, it is no longer very special.

Therefore, porn is one of the most degrading and dispicable things in the world, as it devalues something that should be very intimate and special and not loosely made available to everyone and treats sex as if it is just something fun to do. Once you devalue sex, then your value of the other person in general is lowered. So if you just openly stated that there is nothing wrong with porn, its because you have a lesser value of love and respect for women instead of placing them on the highest level.
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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4/8/2017 1:01:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/8/2017 12:16:40 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/6/2017 3:18:45 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
Here's a topic everyone can identify with, according to the numbers. The consumption of pornography is nearly universal, and inversely proportional according to some studies with a state's professed 'religiosity.' Utah, for example is perennially really high in religiosity AND in the consumption of pron, when we might assume otherwise, that religious states and the adherents in them would shy away from porn. Because this site has so many religious people on it, I wanted to see if we coul dhave an honest adult discussion about it.

If you're religious, do you watch porn? Is it scritpurally forbidden? Have you EVER watched it? Is it ever okay to watch porn? What do you think about it, and why?

For my money, if you're talking about people above the age of consent, willingly participating, I've got no objection to its use or its production. But I'm an atheist, and I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes, and I'm glad when people aren't ashamed of their sexual performances. Thoughts?

Response: Sex is something that is a very intimate and special feeling that inspires the strongest of love and chemistry between two people. Like anything else that is special, once it is given or shared with someone else who does not value it in the same manner, it is no longer very special.

Therefore, porn is one of the most degrading and dispicable things in the world, as it devalues something that should be very intimate and special and not loosely made available to everyone and treats sex as if it is just something fun to do. Once you devalue sex, then your value of the other person in general is lowered. So if you just openly stated that there is nothing wrong with porn, its because you have a lesser value of love and respect for women instead of placing them on the highest level.
You're a 33yr old muslim virgin, you have nothing to say about sex but are probably well acquainted with pornography as an ononist.
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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4/8/2017 1:02:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/8/2017 12:28:27 PM, rnjs wrote:
Porn stars are nothing more than glorified prostitutes
So's your wife if you wanna go there.
rnjs
Posts: 777
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4/8/2017 3:02:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The word is similar to the Modern Greek `0;_9;`1;_7;_9;^7;`1;^5;`6;^3;^5; (pornographia), which derives from the Greek words `0;a2;`1;_7;_1; (pornē "prostitute" and `0;_9;`1;_7;^9;^3;^5; porneia "prostitution"[9]), and ^7;`1;^0;`6;^9;_3;_7; (graphein "to write or to record", derived meaning "illustration", cf. "graph"), and the suffix -^3;^5; (-ia, meaning "state of", "property of", or "place of"), thus meaning "a written description or illustration of prostitutes or prostitution". No date is known for the first use of the word in Greek; the earliest attested, most related word one could find in Greek, is `0;_9;`1;_7;_9;^7;`1;^0;`6;_9;`2;, pornographos, i.e. "someone writing about harlots", in the Deipnosophists of Athenaeus.[10][11] The Modern Greek word pornographia is a translation of the French pornographie.[12]
"Pornographie" was in use in the French language during the 1800s. The word did not enter the English language as the familiar word until 1857[13] or as a French import in New Orleans in 1842.[14]
Pornography is often abbreviated to porn or porno in informal language.

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