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Theists only please. About prayer

Polytheist_Witch
Posts: 4,423
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4/26/2017 1:31:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

I suppose it depends on the request and the god.
tarantula
Posts: 1,604
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4/26/2017 1:37:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Prayer is a just talking to oneself as there is no god listening on the other end of the prayer line, imo.
janesix
Posts: 8,233
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4/26/2017 1:39:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:37:14 PM, tarantula wrote:
Prayer is a just talking to oneself as there is no god listening on the other end of the prayer line, imo.

I didn't ask for your opinion.
PureX
Posts: 4,075
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4/26/2017 1:48:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

No, the prayers aren't for God, they're for us. But praying for a selfish advantage doesn't usually help us all that much, except perhaps in the case of "foxhole" prayer, when the act of doing it can help us become more calm and effective in the moment.
tarantula
Posts: 1,604
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4/26/2017 1:57:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:39:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:37:14 PM, tarantula wrote:
Prayer is a just talking to oneself as there is no god listening on the other end of the prayer line, imo.

I didn't ask for your opinion.

You put up a thread, you can't state only certain posters can reply to it.
illegalcombat
Posts: 1,323
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4/26/2017 3:28:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

But what about the divine plan ?
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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4/26/2017 3:42:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

God will change his mind because he was always going to because he had preordained that I would pray to him using my free will. Hooray for free will.
graceofgod
Posts: 10,088
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4/26/2017 4:12:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

It depends I guess, if you pray to be a billionaire so you can use you wealth to terrorise someone, I guess that would be a problem, if you prayed to be a billionaire to eradicate world hunger, I guess that would be ok, I think it falls in to the same thing as being a cheerful giver, God looks at heart condition, motives...
tarantula
Posts: 1,604
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4/26/2017 4:24:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 4:12:15 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

It depends I guess, if you pray to be a billionaire so you can use you wealth to terrorise someone, I guess that would be a problem, if you prayed to be a billionaire to eradicate world hunger, I guess that would be ok, I think it falls in to the same thing as being a cheerful giver, God looks at heart condition, motives...

Assertion NO evidence
Outplayz
Posts: 3,398
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4/26/2017 5:12:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

I more so try to manifest my wishes through actions in my waking life. I don't pray to say, but more so desire something since essentially my god is my source. I have had times where i prayed for something selfish and i got it, and later in life regretted the decision / getting the "prayer" answered. That is where i found prayer to be meaningless. The future is so uncertain, how in your present moment can you know you want what you are praying for? Either if it is selfish or good, you may regret it in the future. So, now, i just go with the flow. I have desires that i want met, so i can only hope the path i put myself on here will get me some of them... or maybe even all of them at some point or another.
"For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity." --- Jean Dubuffet
12_13
Posts: 2,575
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4/26/2017 8:02:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

I think it depends on what you are asking, more than are you selfish. Probably all people are in some way selfish and I think it is not necessary bad, if it doesn"t make you to do bad things.
janesix
Posts: 8,233
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4/26/2017 8:09:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 8:02:53 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

I think it depends on what you are asking, more than are you selfish. Probably all people are in some way selfish and I think it is not necessary bad, if it doesn"t make you to do bad things.

I just want my hallucinations to stop. I think only God can help me. But I feel gulity thinking I want to pray, when there are others in the world much worse off than I am.
Geogeer
Posts: 6,004
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4/26/2017 8:24:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

There are traditionally 4 types of prayer:

Adoration: Praising God.
Contrition: Asking for God's forgiveness.
Petition: Asking God for a favor.
Thanksgiving: Showing God gratitude.

So no there is nothing wrong with asking. If God is a father he likes you to verbalize what you want. You can pray for a million dollars, and if God's plan for you and the world is better accomplished through it, he may have you win the lottery.

However, what God wants of you is a close relationship.
graceofgod
Posts: 10,088
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4/26/2017 8:52:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 4:24:35 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 4/26/2017 4:12:15 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

It depends I guess, if you pray to be a billionaire so you can use you wealth to terrorise someone, I guess that would be a problem, if you prayed to be a billionaire to eradicate world hunger, I guess that would be ok, I think it falls in to the same thing as being a cheerful giver, God looks at heart condition, motives...

Assertion NO evidence

"I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve."

God sees the heart ...
Axonly
Posts: 2,621
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4/26/2017 11:32:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:57:37 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:39:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:37:14 PM, tarantula wrote:
Prayer is a just talking to oneself as there is no god listening on the other end of the prayer line, imo.

I didn't ask for your opinion.

You put up a thread, you can't state only certain posters can reply to it.

She was hoping you would have the decency to respect her wishes.
"Hate begets hate"
janesix
Posts: 8,233
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4/26/2017 11:41:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 8:52:22 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/26/2017 4:24:35 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 4/26/2017 4:12:15 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

It depends I guess, if you pray to be a billionaire so you can use you wealth to terrorise someone, I guess that would be a problem, if you prayed to be a billionaire to eradicate world hunger, I guess that would be ok, I think it falls in to the same thing as being a cheerful giver, God looks at heart condition, motives...

Assertion NO evidence

"I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve."

God sees the heart ...

Yes, God sees the heart . Better than we do
tarantula
Posts: 1,604
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4/27/2017 7:50:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 8:52:22 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/26/2017 4:24:35 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 4/26/2017 4:12:15 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

It depends I guess, if you pray to be a billionaire so you can use you wealth to terrorise someone, I guess that would be a problem, if you prayed to be a billionaire to eradicate world hunger, I guess that would be ok, I think it falls in to the same thing as being a cheerful giver, God looks at heart condition, motives...

Assertion NO evidence

"I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve."

God sees the heart ...

If it does, yours must look pretty black, as your posts do your faith no favours at all.
tarantula
Posts: 1,604
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4/27/2017 7:52:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 11:32:49 PM, Axonly wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:57:37 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:39:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:37:14 PM, tarantula wrote:
Prayer is a just talking to oneself as there is no god listening on the other end of the prayer line, imo.

I didn't ask for your opinion.

You put up a thread, you can't state only certain posters can reply to it.

She was hoping you would have the decency to respect her wishes.

She is WRONG to ask that, threads are open to all. If she doesn't want unbelievers to respond to her posts she should post on a religious forum where unbelievers are unwelcome, there are quite a few of those around.
Axonly
Posts: 2,621
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4/27/2017 8:03:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/27/2017 7:52:44 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 4/26/2017 11:32:49 PM, Axonly wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:57:37 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:39:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:37:14 PM, tarantula wrote:
Prayer is a just talking to oneself as there is no god listening on the other end of the prayer line, imo.

I didn't ask for your opinion.

You put up a thread, you can't state only certain posters can reply to it.

She was hoping you would have the decency to respect her wishes.

She is WRONG to ask that, threads are open to all. If she doesn't want unbelievers to respond to her posts she should post on a religious forum where unbelievers are unwelcome, there are quite a few of those around.

She's wrong because she wants a religious answer to a religious question?
"Hate begets hate"
12_13
Posts: 2,575
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4/27/2017 9:53:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 8:09:05 PM, janesix wrote:
I just want my hallucinations to stop. I think only God can help me. But I feel gulity thinking I want to pray, when there are others in the world much worse off than I am.

I think you shouldn"t feel bad about asking help for you. Of course that is important matter and I can also pray for you. And after all, when you have things well, you are then also more able to help others. So it is not only for you. :)

But when there is a difficulty, I think one reason for it usually is that you (we) could learn something from it, I hope you can learn something good from it, even though it may feel bad at the moment. :)
tarantula
Posts: 1,604
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4/27/2017 10:21:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/27/2017 8:03:31 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 4/27/2017 7:52:44 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 4/26/2017 11:32:49 PM, Axonly wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:57:37 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:39:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:37:14 PM, tarantula wrote:
Prayer is a just talking to oneself as there is no god listening on the other end of the prayer line, imo.

I didn't ask for your opinion.

You put up a thread, you can't state only certain posters can reply to it.

She was hoping you would have the decency to respect her wishes.

She is WRONG to ask that, threads are open to all. If she doesn't want unbelievers to respond to her posts she should post on a religious forum where unbelievers are unwelcome, there are quite a few of those around.

She's wrong because she wants a religious answer to a religious question?

Tough! If they ask a question, they should expect to get every shade of opinion.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 4,268
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4/27/2017 11:09:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?
Good question.

Basically, it's wrong. But, it doesn't mean God doesn't answer selfish prayers.

People usually pray for blessings. That's not a bad thing perse, but it can have bad results. If you look at King Solomon's conversation with God in a dream as a prayer (God requested Solomon to make a request which we do in prayer), Solomon's request (prayer) was simply to have the ability to govern the people effectively. A very unselfish prayer request. God then told Solomon that not only will He answer that prayer request, but add blessings Solomon didn't even ask for.

The Bible states that when we pray according to God's will, we will receive that prayer request. And it is God's will to bless people. There's a saying that's not specifically in the Bible, at least not as worded, but I find to be true. When God blesses someone, He has someone else in mind. All the blessings bestowed on King Solomon were not solely meant for him. Where Solomon fell into trouble was when instead of focusing on how his blessings can benefit others, he focused on how they could benefit him. And the end result was the conclusion that all is vanity. If the focus was strictly on serving others with his blessing, it would have been a different story. That's why the big contrast between Solomon's all is vanity, and the Apostle Paul's I have learned to be content in all things. Paul's focus was on the people he was serving. That tends to take away the pain and frustration that's a result of focusing on self.

A lot of things are found out about prayer through experience not really spelled out in the Bible, but are confirmed by the Bible. I've heard one testimony a minister gave stating that God answered his selfish prayers which ended up becoming a lesson on avoiding selfish prayers. He stated that sometimes God won't answer selfish prayers, but sometimes He does to allow the person to choke on them. This man basically asked for a lot wealth. God gave it to him, and it ended up choking him. It was part of his lesson on the blessing of being a blessing to others instead of himself.
Polytheist_Witch
Posts: 4,423
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4/27/2017 12:44:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The type of people that insists it's a moral imperative to post on topics like this when the original post asks for certain responds also tell people how to raise their kids, cook their food, do their job and generally boss people around. It's usually borderline bullies. Plenty of atheists leave these topics to theists. Just like plenty of theists would stay out of a topic with an atheists only request.
Iacov
Posts: 499
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4/27/2017 1:24:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

No you can pray to any god for any reason just understand that each and every god as different personalities and how they respond will be different from one another.
v3nesl
Posts: 6,821
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4/27/2017 2:04:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

The Bible is full of selfish prayers, many of which were answered. "The Prayer of Jabez" was all the rage in certain circles a few years ago, and it's a notably selfish prayer.

And I think, personally, that trying to pretend one is not going to be selfish is the sort of artificial nonsense that has done great harm to Christianity over the years. God does not ask ridiculous things of us. Of course we're going to be self interested, and God never suggests we should stop loving ourselves. He just says we should grow our circle of affection, and love our neighbor as we love ourselves, and love God most of all.
This space for rent.
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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4/27/2017 2:08:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/27/2017 2:04:19 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 4/26/2017 1:26:49 PM, janesix wrote:
Is it wrong to pray to God for selfish reasons?

The Bible is full of selfish prayers, many of which were answered. "The Prayer of Jabez" was all the rage in certain circles a few years ago, and it's a notably selfish prayer.

And I think, personally, that trying to pretend one is not going to be selfish is the sort of artificial nonsense that has done great harm to Christianity over the years. God does not ask ridiculous things of us. Of course we're going to be self interested, and God never suggests we should stop loving ourselves. He just says we should grow our circle of affection, and love our neighbor as we love ourselves, and love God most of all.
So this god who is all knowing can change what he knows when someone asks him to.
Does that mean that he's not all knowing?
v3nesl
Posts: 6,821
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4/27/2017 2:09:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
As soon as I wrote the above, I realize that the definition of "selfish" could be a bit negotiable. So I'm defining selfish for this thread as "in my self interests and mine alone." I want the sun to come out. Others may enjoy it too, but I'd be asking for my own warmth, not theirs. (But I know it's all very complicated, so I'll just wait until the sun comes out normally - I won't pray for sunshine right now)
This space for rent.
v3nesl
Posts: 6,821
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4/27/2017 2:17:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/27/2017 2:08:16 PM, bulproof wrote:
...
So this god who is all knowing can change what he knows when someone asks him to.
Does that mean that he's not all knowing?

You're like some public defender on a TV show who jumps up and shouts "I object!" And the judge says "Object to what, counselor?" and you just look confused for a few moments and then sit down. You just throw random stuff out at this point, don't you? "I remember when I was in college and we'd smoke joints and have these deep philosophical discussions. Oh, yeah, those were the good old days. They say that stuff kills brain cells, but I think it's why I'm still tarp as a shack"
This space for rent.
annanicole
Posts: 22,363
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4/27/2017 2:35:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/26/2017 1:37:14 PM, tarantula wrote:
Prayer is a just talking to oneself as there is no god listening on the other end of the prayer line, imo.

How can you believe that and be a theist?

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