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The Ultimate Test

Willows
Posts: 11,692
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5/28/2017 11:39:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Religious followers, can you prove that atheists cannot prove the existence of God?

If not, then stop the pussyfooting around over who proves what.

Once and for all, come up with some evidence to prove God exists and if you can't, get on the phone straight away and tell your Church, Synagogue or Mosque that you wish to cancel your membership and that you want a full refund of all your donations to date.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 6,062
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5/28/2017 4:48:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 11:39:01 AM, Willows wrote:
Religious followers, can you prove that atheists cannot prove the existence of God?

If not, then stop the pussyfooting around over who proves what.

Once and for all, come up with some evidence to prove God exists and if you can't...

You've been told over and over again now, it seems we just keep rehashing the same tired old Willow games. You want us to prove through the wrong medium what can't be shown due to the nature of the reality. Keep swinging at air though, hopefully that mindset will pop soon enough.
The corresponding evidence that is compatible with the nature of Theism has been shown over a million ways from Sunday. Take your pick of the evidences, they are plenteous.
PureX
Posts: 4,075
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5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 6,062
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5/28/2017 5:04:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

"Evidence" was what the word was, not proof..... but again this common misunderstanding of faith that it means to believe in something with no proof or evidence is not spiritual and not Biblical, nor is it scriptural in any way, I'm sorry but this is a misrepresentation. Faith is based upon trust, trust is not void of proof.
Your version of faith is contrary to the spiritual, it's contrary to what Jesus taught as well and makes Theistic principles look bad. Faith is a principle, and I'm hoping you understand what and how a principle operates. There is no "faith" that just means to believe in something with no definitive reason or proof that is not so, faith is the product of reason and proof, hence confidence...trust. We've been over this yet you keep insisting it's something other than what it is, sorry but it is a poor representation of a really cool principle.
matt8800
Posts: 2,773
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5/28/2017 5:17:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 4:48:07 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 5/28/2017 11:39:01 AM, Willows wrote:
Religious followers, can you prove that atheists cannot prove the existence of God?

If not, then stop the pussyfooting around over who proves what.

Once and for all, come up with some evidence to prove God exists and if you can't...


You've been told over and over again now, it seems we just keep rehashing the same tired old Willow games. You want us to prove through the wrong medium what can't be shown due to the nature of the reality. Keep swinging at air though, hopefully that mindset will pop soon enough.
The corresponding evidence that is compatible with the nature of Theism has been shown over a million ways from Sunday. Take your pick of the evidences, they are plenteous.

What method would one employ to determine the difference between your god and a god that is the invented delusion of a schizophrenic?

The observable difference it makes in people's lives are identical.
janesix
Posts: 8,233
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5/28/2017 5:18:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 11:39:01 AM, Willows wrote:
Religious followers, can you prove that atheists cannot prove the existence of God?

No

If not, then stop the pussyfooting around over who proves what.

I've never told an atheist to prove God doesn't exist. That's impossible and silly.

Once and for all, come up with some evidence to prove God exists and if you can't, get on the phone straight away and tell your Church, Synagogue or Mosque that you wish to cancel your membership and that you want a full refund of all your donations to date.

I have enough evidence for myself to believe God most likely exists.
matt8800
Posts: 2,773
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5/28/2017 5:19:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

In some cases, absence of evidence is evidence of absence. This would be one of those cases because the claim is one of an all-powerful, interventionist god.

Everyone has faith in their particular delusion of choice. If they didn't, it would no longer be a delusion.
PureX
Posts: 4,075
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5/28/2017 5:31:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 5:04:31 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

"Evidence" was what the word was, not proof

The atheists demands "proof", not evidence. Give them evidence and they will reject it for not being incontrovertible, i.e., 'proven beyond a doubt'.

but again this common misunderstanding of faith that it means to believe in something with no proof or evidence is not spiritual and not Biblical, nor is it scriptural in any way, I'm sorry but this is a misrepresentation. Faith is based upon trust, trust is not void of proof.

Faith is based on hope, but I agree that is an act of trust, and that it produces it's own evidence, once engaged.

Your version of faith is contrary to the spiritual, it's contrary to what Jesus taught as well and makes Theistic principles look bad. Faith is a principle, and I'm hoping you understand what and how a principle operates.

Faith is a choice to trust in something that we hope to be true and to then act on that trust. That hope may lay in a principal or in a circumstance or in something else.

There is no "faith" that just means to believe in something with no definitive reason or proof that is not so, faith is the product of reason and proof, hence confidence...trust. We've been over this yet you keep insisting it's something other than what it is, sorry but it is a poor representation of a really cool principle.

Your confusion is evident, here, because you have ignored the essential engine of faith, and that is hope. Faith is choosing to trust that what we hope to be so will turn out to be so if we act as if it will be. The "evidence" is the result.
coldlandlord
Posts: 25
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5/28/2017 5:32:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

Why do you have faith in something that has no supporting evidence to even suggest that is true though? How can anyone believe in something so avidly when there is literally nothing there to back up what you believe in.

If I woke up tomorrow and decided to believe that fairies exist and I went around telling everyone that I believe in fairies. If they asked why i believe in fairies and I said, ....well i have absolutely no evidence that fairies exist, i have never seen, heard, touched or had any interaction with a fairy but i just have faith that they exist. I would be laughed at and possibly taken to a loony asylum.

Now replace the word fairy with god. How is it any different?

There has to be evidence!! how can you make a decision on what you believe in without it.

Id like to know, why do you have faith? you were born without religion. how did your blank canvas of a brain adopt religion and faith in a god? What made you, one day decide that there is a god?
Also why do you believe in your god and not one of the ancient greek gods or the muslim god?
PureX
Posts: 4,075
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5/28/2017 5:41:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 5:19:13 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

In some cases, absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

Only when all the possibilities are contained, and accountable. Regarding the question of "God's abilities" or "God's intercession" this is not the case. We have no idea what God's abilities are or to what degree god might be interceding in the flow of existence.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 6,062
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5/28/2017 5:53:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 5:17:13 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:48:07 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 5/28/2017 11:39:01 AM, Willows wrote:
Religious followers, can you prove that atheists cannot prove the existence of God?

If not, then stop the pussyfooting around over who proves what.

Once and for all, come up with some evidence to prove God exists and if you can't...


You've been told over and over again now, it seems we just keep rehashing the same tired old Willow games. You want us to prove through the wrong medium what can't be shown due to the nature of the reality. Keep swinging at air though, hopefully that mindset will pop soon enough.
The corresponding evidence that is compatible with the nature of Theism has been shown over a million ways from Sunday. Take your pick of the evidences, they are plenteous.

What method would one employ to determine the difference between your god and a god that is the invented delusion of a schizophrenic?

The observable difference it makes in people's lives are identical.

I already answered that in the silly topic that you asked the same question. I'm not repeating myself :) refer back to that.
PureX
Posts: 4,075
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5/28/2017 6:12:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 5:32:44 PM, coldlandlord wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

Why do you have faith in something that has no supporting evidence to even suggest that is true though?

No one is suggesting that there is no supporting evidence. Only that there is no proof. And the answer to your question is 'hope'. They hope that something is true even though they can't know that it is. And they are willing to trust in that hope through their actions. And then the results will become their "proof".

How can anyone believe in something so avidly when there is literally nothing there to back up what you believe in.

Why do you insist on characterizing faith in the extreme like this? There are many degrees of trust in belief, and many degrees of evidential support.

If I woke up tomorrow and decided to believe that fairies exist and I went around telling everyone that I believe in fairies. If they asked why i believe in fairies and I said, ....well i have absolutely no evidence that fairies exist, i have never seen, heard, touched or had any interaction with a fairy but i just have faith that they exist. I would be laughed at and possibly taken to a loony asylum.

But you have all sorts of evidence that fairies exist. They exist in stories, and paintings and people's imaginations. You problem would be that you were not articulating your belief, properly.

Now replace the word fairy with god. How is it any different?

Well, fairies are a relatively defined phenomena that we could possibly seek out and find lacking. God is not. It's why you had to resort to the fairy analogy in the first place.

There has to be evidence!! how can you make a decision on what you believe in without it.

By the result of believing.

"Evidence" is just what 'works for us' in our experience of being. If believing in God works for us, that in itself stands as evidence.

Id like to know, why do you have faith?

Because it works for me. I choose to believe that a God of my understanding exists because doing so improves the quality of my experience of life.

you were born without religion. how did your blank canvas of a brain adopt religion and faith in a god? What made you, one day decide that there is a god?

I was offered the idea of "God" growing up, as most of us are, and I rejected most of the concept I was offered. But later in life I discovered that I needed something beyond existential reality to trust in. Without it I was floundering. So I considered the idea long and carefully, and I came up with a god-concept that made sense to me, and I chose to trust in it. And the results were very positive, so I've stuck with it.

I don't know if my "God" exists or not. And to tell the truth, it doesn't much matter to me. What matters is that the ideal works in my life. And i think it could work just as well in anyone else's life. But that's up to them.

Also why do you believe in your god and not one of the ancient greek gods or the muslim god?

My god-concept makes sense to me. It makes sense with the way I think and with the things I've experienced, and the things I care about. Other people's god-concepts mostly don't resonate for me.
Willows
Posts: 11,692
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5/29/2017 6:48:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 4:48:07 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 5/28/2017 11:39:01 AM, Willows wrote:
Religious followers, can you prove that atheists cannot prove the existence of God?

If not, then stop the pussyfooting around over who proves what.

Once and for all, come up with some evidence to prove God exists and if you can't...


You've been told over and over again now, it seems we just keep rehashing the same tired old Willow games. You want us to prove through the wrong medium what can't be shown due to the nature of the reality. Keep swinging at air though, hopefully that mindset will pop soon enough.
The corresponding evidence that is compatible with the nature of Theism has been shown over a million ways from Sunday. Take your pick of the evidences, they are plenteous.

In other words, you have just made up some convenient nose in the air nothingness like "compatible with the nature of theism" to kindly explain to others "I know but you don't know cause you don't have the superior intelligence that I do".

It is no wonder that the words "arrogant" and "elitist" have become synonymous with religious belief.
Willows
Posts: 11,692
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5/29/2017 6:51:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

No one needs proof but without it you are only showing to the world that you will believe anything that appeals to your ego and the fact that you have faith does not change that condition.
Willows
Posts: 11,692
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5/29/2017 6:57:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 5:04:31 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

"Evidence" was what the word was, not proof..... but again this common misunderstanding of faith that it means to believe in something with no proof or evidence is not spiritual and not Biblical, nor is it scriptural in any way, I'm sorry but this is a misrepresentation. Faith is based upon trust, trust is not void of proof.
Your version of faith is contrary to the spiritual, it's contrary to what Jesus taught as well and makes Theistic principles look bad. Faith is a principle, and I'm hoping you understand what and how a principle operates. There is no "faith" that just means to believe in something with no definitive reason or proof that is not so, faith is the product of reason and proof, hence confidence...trust. We've been over this yet you keep insisting it's something other than what it is, sorry but it is a poor representation of a really cool principle.
And that really is what it boils down to,"faith".
Others would call it "being sucked into the biggest scam going."
Willows
Posts: 11,692
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5/29/2017 6:59:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 6:12:58 PM, PureX wrote:
At 5/28/2017 5:32:44 PM, coldlandlord wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

Why do you have faith in something that has no supporting evidence to even suggest that is true though?

No one is suggesting that there is no supporting evidence. Only that there is no proof. And the answer to your question is 'hope'. They hope that something is true even though they can't know that it is. And they are willing to trust in that hope through their actions. And then the results will become their "proof".

How can anyone believe in something so avidly when there is literally nothing there to back up what you believe in.

Why do you insist on characterizing faith in the extreme like this? There are many degrees of trust in belief, and many degrees of evidential support.

If I woke up tomorrow and decided to believe that fairies exist and I went around telling everyone that I believe in fairies. If they asked why i believe in fairies and I said, ....well i have absolutely no evidence that fairies exist, i have never seen, heard, touched or had any interaction with a fairy but i just have faith that they exist. I would be laughed at and possibly taken to a loony asylum.

But you have all sorts of evidence that fairies exist. They exist in stories, and paintings and people's imaginations. You problem would be that you were not articulating your belief, properly.

Now replace the word fairy with god. How is it any different?

Well, fairies are a relatively defined phenomena that we could possibly seek out and find lacking. God is not. It's why you had to resort to the fairy analogy in the first place.

There has to be evidence!! how can you make a decision on what you believe in without it.

By the result of believing.

"Evidence" is just what 'works for us' in our experience of being. If believing in God works for us, that in itself stands as evidence.

Id like to know, why do you have faith?

Because it works for me. I choose to believe that a God of my understanding exists because doing so improves the quality of my experience of life.

you were born without religion. how did your blank canvas of a brain adopt religion and faith in a god? What made you, one day decide that there is a god?

I was offered the idea of "God" growing up, as most of us are, and I rejected most of the concept I was offered. But later in life I discovered that I needed something beyond existential reality to trust in. Without it I was floundering. So I considered the idea long and carefully, and I came up with a god-concept that made sense to me, and I chose to trust in it. And the results were very positive, so I've stuck with it.

I don't know if my "God" exists or not. And to tell the truth, it doesn't much matter to me. What matters is that the ideal works in my life. And i think it could work just as well in anyone else's life. But that's up to them.

Also why do you believe in your god and not one of the ancient greek gods or the muslim god?

My god-concept makes sense to me. It makes sense with the way I think and with the things I've experienced, and the things I care about. Other people's god-concepts mostly don't resonate for me.

That is commonly known as "delusion".
Willows
Posts: 11,692
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5/29/2017 7:00:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 5:18:10 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/28/2017 11:39:01 AM, Willows wrote:
Religious followers, can you prove that atheists cannot prove the existence of God?

No

If not, then stop the pussyfooting around over who proves what.

I've never told an atheist to prove God doesn't exist. That's impossible and silly.

Once and for all, come up with some evidence to prove God exists and if you can't, get on the phone straight away and tell your Church, Synagogue or Mosque that you wish to cancel your membership and that you want a full refund of all your donations to date.

I have enough evidence for myself to believe God most likely exists.
Does it not concern you that the evidence for yourself to believe is inaccurate?
Willows
Posts: 11,692
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5/29/2017 7:05:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 5:32:44 PM, coldlandlord wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

Why do you have faith in something that has no supporting evidence to even suggest that is true though? How can anyone believe in something so avidly when there is literally nothing there to back up what you believe in.

If I woke up tomorrow and decided to believe that fairies exist and I went around telling everyone that I believe in fairies. If they asked why i believe in fairies and I said, ....well i have absolutely no evidence that fairies exist, i have never seen, heard, touched or had any interaction with a fairy but i just have faith that they exist. I would be laughed at and possibly taken to a loony asylum.

Now replace the word fairy with god. How is it any different?

There has to be evidence!! how can you make a decision on what you believe in without it.

Id like to know, why do you have faith? you were born without religion. how did your blank canvas of a brain adopt religion and faith in a god? What made you, one day decide that there is a god?
Also why do you believe in your god and not one of the ancient greek gods or the muslim god?

Exactly on the nail there.

I think you must have a certain type of mindset to accept religion and be happy that all you have is faith. It is generally the same mindset that will be sucked into scams and anything alternative to the norm only because they distrust convention.
KwLm
Posts: 1,690
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5/29/2017 12:26:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 4:48:07 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 5/28/2017 11:39:01 AM, Willows wrote:
Religious followers, can you prove that atheists cannot prove the existence of God?

If not, then stop the pussyfooting around over who proves what.

Once and for all, come up with some evidence to prove God exists and if you can't...


You've been told over and over again now, it seems we just keep rehashing the same tired old Willow games. You want us to prove through the wrong medium what can't be shown due to the nature of the reality. Keep swinging at air though, hopefully that mindset will pop soon enough.
The corresponding evidence that is compatible with the nature of Theism has been shown over a million ways from Sunday. Take your pick of the evidences, they are plenteous.

You mean that which you think is evidence but in reality is not.
"Plus every unfortunate and bad things happens to us in reality are good for us" --- Abeer
KwLm
Posts: 1,690
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5/29/2017 12:27:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

Don't forget the power of brainwashing.
"Plus every unfortunate and bad things happens to us in reality are good for us" --- Abeer
PureX
Posts: 4,075
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5/29/2017 1:27:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2017 12:27:00 PM, KwLm wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

Don't forget the power of brainwashing.

Only the most extreme cults practice anything resembling 'brainwashing'. Religions 'indoctrinate'. They don't 'brainwash'. And indoctrination can easily be rejected once a person reaches adulthood. We know this because there are a great many people who have been indoctrinated by religion that have then rejected it as they became adults. And those who do not reject it have chosen not to do so.

Your own bias is causing you not to think rationally and clearly about religion and it's effect on people. Which is something you should want to do something about if you hope to maintain and exhibit any personal and intellectual integrity.
Ludofl3x
Posts: 2,283
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5/29/2017 2:30:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2017 1:27:21 PM, PureX wrote:
At 5/29/2017 12:27:00 PM, KwLm wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

Don't forget the power of brainwashing.

Only the most extreme cults practice anything resembling 'brainwashing'. Religions 'indoctrinate'. They don't 'brainwash'. And indoctrination can easily be rejected once a person reaches adulthood. We know this because there are a great many people who have been indoctrinated by religion that have then rejected it as they became adults. And those who do not reject it have chosen not to do so.

Your own bias is causing you not to think rationally and clearly about religion and it's effect on people. Which is something you should want to do something about if you hope to maintain and exhibit any personal and intellectual integrity.

What would someone who wanted to brainwash another person do differently than someone who wanted to indoctrinate another person? I mean besides start when the person was fifteen instead of when they were a baby.
matt8800
Posts: 2,773
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5/29/2017 2:41:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 5:41:03 PM, PureX wrote:
At 5/28/2017 5:19:13 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

In some cases, absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

Only when all the possibilities are contained, and accountable. Regarding the question of "God's abilities" or "God's intercession" this is not the case. We have no idea what God's abilities are or to what degree god might be interceding in the flow of existence.

That is just sh!t you made up to justify believing something that isn't real. A critical thinker would realize that violates Occams Razor.
PureX
Posts: 4,075
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5/29/2017 2:48:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2017 2:30:01 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
At 5/29/2017 1:27:21 PM, PureX wrote:
At 5/29/2017 12:27:00 PM, KwLm wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

Don't forget the power of brainwashing.

Only the most extreme cults practice anything resembling 'brainwashing'. Religions 'indoctrinate'. They don't 'brainwash'. And indoctrination can easily be rejected once a person reaches adulthood. We know this because there are a great many people who have been indoctrinated by religion that have then rejected it as they became adults. And those who do not reject it have chosen not to do so.

Your own bias is causing you not to think rationally and clearly about religion and it's effect on people. Which is something you should want to do something about if you hope to maintain and exhibit any personal and intellectual integrity.

What would someone who wanted to brainwash another person do differently than someone who wanted to indoctrinate another person? I mean besides start when the person was fifteen instead of when they were a baby.

"Brainwashing" includes practices like food and sleep deprivation, constant repetitive messaging, forced isolation, and so on. These are not common religious practices. Acculturation and indoctrination are not "brainwashing".
KwLm
Posts: 1,690
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5/29/2017 3:20:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2017 2:48:07 PM, PureX wrote:
At 5/29/2017 2:30:01 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
At 5/29/2017 1:27:21 PM, PureX wrote:
At 5/29/2017 12:27:00 PM, KwLm wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

Don't forget the power of brainwashing.

Only the most extreme cults practice anything resembling 'brainwashing'. Religions 'indoctrinate'. They don't 'brainwash'. And indoctrination can easily be rejected once a person reaches adulthood. We know this because there are a great many people who have been indoctrinated by religion that have then rejected it as they became adults. And those who do not reject it have chosen not to do so.

Your own bias is causing you not to think rationally and clearly about religion and it's effect on people. Which is something you should want to do something about if you hope to maintain and exhibit any personal and intellectual integrity.

What would someone who wanted to brainwash another person do differently than someone who wanted to indoctrinate another person? I mean besides start when the person was fifteen instead of when they were a baby.

"Brainwashing" includes practices like food and sleep deprivation, constant repetitive messaging, forced isolation, and so on. These are not common religious practices. Acculturation and indoctrination are not "brainwashing".

"constant repetitive messaging"......Whats that about religion not brainwashing people? come on, there's no such thing as a god, ou can't prove that their is, yet you believe there is without any proof and that's not being brainwashed
"Plus every unfortunate and bad things happens to us in reality are good for us" --- Abeer
PureX
Posts: 4,075
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5/29/2017 3:38:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2017 3:20:44 PM, KwLm wrote:
At 5/29/2017 2:48:07 PM, PureX wrote:
At 5/29/2017 2:30:01 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
At 5/29/2017 1:27:21 PM, PureX wrote:
At 5/29/2017 12:27:00 PM, KwLm wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

Don't forget the power of brainwashing.

Only the most extreme cults practice anything resembling 'brainwashing'. Religions 'indoctrinate'. They don't 'brainwash'. And indoctrination can easily be rejected once a person reaches adulthood. We know this because there are a great many people who have been indoctrinated by religion that have then rejected it as they became adults. And those who do not reject it have chosen not to do so.

Your own bias is causing you not to think rationally and clearly about religion and it's effect on people. Which is something you should want to do something about if you hope to maintain and exhibit any personal and intellectual integrity.

What would someone who wanted to brainwash another person do differently than someone who wanted to indoctrinate another person? I mean besides start when the person was fifteen instead of when they were a baby.

"Brainwashing" includes practices like food and sleep deprivation, constant repetitive messaging, forced isolation, and so on. These are not common religious practices. Acculturation and indoctrination are not "brainwashing".

come on, there's no such thing as a god, you can't prove that their is,

Nor can you prove that there isn't. And yet you make this proclamation, anyway, based on nothing but your own biased mind. Perhaps it's you that has been "brainwashed".

yet you believe there is without any proof and that's not being brainwashed.

Everyone believes all kinds of things without proof. We believe we can drive from here to the grocery store and back without being hit by another driver, though we have no proof of this. Believing without proof is what we humans do. It's what we have to do because "proof" is not available to us a great deal of the time and regarding a great many propositions.
rnjs
Posts: 777
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5/29/2017 4:22:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's not that we can't prove God exists, it's just that we can't prove it to atheists
( disbelievers). We should make an effort but, sadly, many will take their disbelief to the grave.
Omniverse
Posts: 1,576
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5/29/2017 4:32:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2017 4:22:25 PM, rnjs wrote:
It's not that we can't prove God exists, it's just that we can't prove it to atheists
( disbelievers).

What a silly statement.

You can't prove your God exists to other theists, to polytheists, to pantheists, to panentheists, to deists, to semi-deists, to Gnostics, to pagans, to animists, to dualists, etc.

We should make an effort but, sadly, many will take their disbelief to the grave.

Your efforts usually involve misrepresenting and insulting atheists at large. No wonder the results haven't been exactly stellar.
KwLm
Posts: 1,690
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5/29/2017 4:50:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2017 3:38:49 PM, PureX wrote:
At 5/29/2017 3:20:44 PM, KwLm wrote:
At 5/29/2017 2:48:07 PM, PureX wrote:
At 5/29/2017 2:30:01 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:
At 5/29/2017 1:27:21 PM, PureX wrote:
At 5/29/2017 12:27:00 PM, KwLm wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

Don't forget the power of brainwashing.

Only the most extreme cults practice anything resembling 'brainwashing'. Religions 'indoctrinate'. They don't 'brainwash'. And indoctrination can easily be rejected once a person reaches adulthood. We know this because there are a great many people who have been indoctrinated by religion that have then rejected it as they became adults. And those who do not reject it have chosen not to do so.

Your own bias is causing you not to think rationally and clearly about religion and it's effect on people. Which is something you should want to do something about if you hope to maintain and exhibit any personal and intellectual integrity.

What would someone who wanted to brainwash another person do differently than someone who wanted to indoctrinate another person? I mean besides start when the person was fifteen instead of when they were a baby.

"Brainwashing" includes practices like food and sleep deprivation, constant repetitive messaging, forced isolation, and so on. These are not common religious practices. Acculturation and indoctrination are not "brainwashing".

come on, there's no such thing as a god, you can't prove that their is,

Nor can you prove that there isn't. And yet you make this proclamation, anyway, based on nothing but your own biased mind. Perhaps it's you that has been "brainwashed".

You just dis proved god in that sentence, well done.

yet you believe there is without any proof and that's not being brainwashed.

Everyone believes all kinds of things without proof. We believe we can drive from here to the grocery store and back without being hit by another driver, though we have no proof of this. Believing without proof is what we humans do. It's what we have to do because "proof" is not available to us a great deal of the time and regarding a great many propositions.

That is an expectation, a person expects to not be hit by another driver. Huge difference between an expectation and a belief.
You might be gullible enough to believe in whatever without proof, I am not.
"Plus every unfortunate and bad things happens to us in reality are good for us" --- Abeer
rextr05
Posts: 2,061
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5/29/2017 10:14:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2017 5:19:13 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 5/28/2017 4:49:01 PM, PureX wrote:
It's the atheists that are constantly demanding proof, and then basing their own atheism on the lack of it.

Theists don't need proof, because they have faith.

In some cases, absence of evidence is evidence of absence. This would be one of those cases because the claim is one of an all-powerful, interventionist god.

Everyone has faith in their particular delusion of choice. If they didn't, it would no longer be a delusion.

I couldn't agree more. So you agree it's not a delusion right? .... at least that's what your statement says. Is love a delusion? If not, prove the love of someone to another is genuine ....... or is it faith in the belief that what we believe about someone is absolutely true, & therefore deserves our love? Or can it be a delusion? Can't have it both ways.

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