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Cain and Abel

TheChristWithin
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3/31/2018 10:59:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
As we read in the first book of Moses, Cain and Abel are among the first progeny of not only Adam/Eve, but of all of mankind.

If one is to temporarily discard the notion that these people were real, and rather focus on what they represent, it becomes clear that Cain and Abel represent two fundamental directions in which man himself can travel and ultimately collapse into upon the "end of days".

The word "Cain", according to Easton's Bible dictionary, means "tiller of the soil". The word "Abel", according to the same text, means "to shepherd the first of flock".

Now there is a rather stark contrast between these two figures:

Cain, having discovered his own offering "of the fruit of the ground" to be inferior to Abel's, grew enmity within himself and became wroth, plotting to lure Abel into the field and act upon his outrage by putting the righteous brother Abel to death. For this crime, he was expelled and exiled from Eden and given a mark whereupon he would be hunted in fear of other men. Cain and his progeny eventually descended into a state of moral and spiritual degeneracy.

Abel, having produced an offering which was well received by God, his offering being "the firstlings of his flock and of the fat," In Matt. 23:35, Abel is referred to as "righteous"; and in Heb. 11:4 is noted "Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain".

So immediately we are dealing with a man seeking to sacrifice his animal nature, and a man who succumbs to his animal nature. This is the fundamental nature of the Cain and Abel story.

Cain succumbs to his animal nature; he is filled with enmity which eventually leads him to plot to spill the blood of his own brother. Abel took his practice as a herdsman; collected his firstlings (of the lower nature) and offered them as a burnt offering to God in the hopes to cleanse himself of all things pertaining to the lower nature.

Now if we apply this fundamental division to mankind today, what do we see?

It seems to me many religious types go down the way of Cain; they have enmity for all those that oppose their belief systems; they plot, scheme, erect idols and call upon their "authority", divide the world in "good" and "evil" which was forbidden by God just prior to the fall of man etc. and the list could go on. If we look at a religion such as Islam, we find that the belief system is based almost exclusively on the desire to spill the blood of all those who oppose their regime; labeling them "infidels" as if some sort of abomination in the eyes of God. They imitate the idol of Muhammad who carried out such bloodshed and rest in their convictions that all infidels must be eventually eradicated.

It seems to me that this is the very descent spoken of; that man alone would succumb to his own desire to spill blood out of enmity. It has certainly existed in the early Christian church (and still exists) and certainly exists in Islam (as it always has).

Therefor it seems to me that Islam is actually a Canaanite religion; constructed by appealing to the baseness of man (ownership of women and conquest) and the erection of psychological idols used as justification for such behavior. Hundreds of millions of Muslims alone have been slain in the name of this Allah for attempting to reform the religion, and many non-Muslims have been slain for opposing it outright.

And what is funny; this entire dilemma is already outlined in the debacle between the very first progeny of Adam and Eve as recorded in the Bible, in the first book of Moses whom both Christians/Muslims believe is divinely inspired.

When this is understood, Canaanites are thus not an historical race of peoples derived from any genealogy; it is not a group, a tribe, or any such thing. To be a Canaanite is to succumb to the lower nature of existence and collapse into a state of being subject to the wroth desires associated with it; namely, enmity and desire to spill blood. Religions such as Islam have merely institutionalized this desire.
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3/31/2018 11:49:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2018 10:59:39 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
Religions such as Islam have merely institutionalized this desire.

I think the root myth may have something to do with conflict between animal herders (Abel)and crop farmers(Cain). YHWH favours Abel's animal sacrifice over Cain's vegetables (consistent with the YHWHist's fondness for animal-based ritual sacrifice), and jealousy causes Cain to kill Abel.

Cain leaves his parents, and we are told that he establishes a separate lineage and founds a city called Enoch, consistent with him representing a settled, town dwelling crop farming tribe quite apart from the nomadic Hebrews. In gen 4 we read that the descendants of Cain include those who dwell in tents, musicians and metal workers - presumably those were things the Hebrew did not do and considered thinhs only foreigners did!

Or it all happened exactly as written - I'm not sure.
TheChristWithin
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3/31/2018 1:58:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2018 11:49:08 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 3/31/2018 10:59:39 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
Religions such as Islam have merely institutionalized this desire.

I think the root myth may have something to do with conflict between animal herders (Abel)and crop farmers(Cain). YHWH favours Abel's animal sacrifice over Cain's vegetables (consistent with the YHWHist's fondness for animal-based ritual sacrifice), and jealousy causes Cain to kill Abel.

Cain leaves his parents, and we are told that he establishes a separate lineage and founds a city called Enoch, consistent with him representing a settled, town dwelling crop farming tribe quite apart from the nomadic Hebrews. In gen 4 we read that the descendants of Cain include those who dwell in tents, musicians and metal workers - presumably those were things the Hebrew did not do and considered thinhs only foreigners did!

Or it all happened exactly as written - I'm not sure.

This is an interesting perspective; thank you for chiming in and managing not to attack with rhetoric like most do.

I do feel this has something to do with it; but again I feel it may be prudent for one to recognize that these stories are not to be taken literally. For example when I imagine Cain, I do not imagine a real individual with a handful of fruits walking up to an alter. Likewise when I imagine Abel, I do not imagine a real individual killing animals.

Actually here is an excerpt from Psalms 40 and verses 6-8:

Sacrifice and offering you did not desire"
but my ears you have opened "
burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.
Then I said, "Here I am, I have come"
it is written about me in the scroll.
I desire to do your will, my God;
your law is within my heart."


This is really beautiful; here the speaker is realizing that sacrifices/offerings are not what is desired/meant by animal sacrifice (hence "my ears have you opened"). The speaker then realizes that it is so written about and within himself (man himself) that such sacrifices are to be made.

So even if it were the case that such animal sacrifices were associated with Abel (though I am at odds with this interpretation) this Psalm seems to clarify (to me) that animal sacrifices are to be made within, and not without.
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3/31/2018 3:34:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2018 1:58:26 PM, TheChristWithin wrote:
This is really beautiful; here the speaker is realizing that sacrifices/offerings are not what is desired/meant by animal sacrifice (hence "my ears have you opened"). The speaker then realizes that it is so written about and within himself (man himself) that such sacrifices are to be made.

My reading is that the speaker is thanking his God for his assistance despite him having given no sacrifice. The efficacy and necessity of sacrifice is well attested in Deuteronomy and Leviticus - it can't be denied that YHWH requires them on the basis of one psalm. Hence the speaker's profuse thanks for YHWH's aid on some occasion when no sacrifice was given.

There is an abrupt change in tone at verse 11 - the speaker ends his flattery of his god and moves to his real purpose - asking for further assistance 'without delay'.
2Simpleender
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5/15/2018 3:18:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The English word " Cain " according to the historical Hebrew manuscript languistica is Hebrew 7014 = qayin / Kah'-yin. The name of the first child. - Cain.

From there, Kah'-yin / Cain the firstborn child"s name is marked. This mark sometimes determines the meaning and usage of the root word - { Cain / Kah'-yin } and how it is sometimes used in other words in the Hebrew language.

The Hebrew language uses similar root word Cain or Kah'-yin for other words such as Hebrew 7085 / kah-ak-ah' / Meaning an incision or gash, engraving a message or drawing on paper, stone or rock ect" : - + a form of the word, mark.


Referring to the mark that was put on Cain himself.
This word is used in Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

Also { as another totally unrelated word } just a side note, unrelated to the word Cain itself is the English word " OATH " Oath comes from the Hebrew word oth Hebrew 226
This Hebrew word oth means - An appearing of a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.: MARK, miracle, (en-) sign, token. / - signs and wonders.

The MARK that was placed on Cain is this very word - oth. This word goes on to describe the promises, pledges. OATHS, covenants, and Testaments that come from God that is literally manifested physically as physical supernatural signs and wonders and 'oths to the Hebrews as OATHS or SIGNS or Pledges and vindicated proofs [ signatures ] of His literal presence, His word, and existence.

Such as here in Jer 44:29 And this shall be a { 'oth / & MARK / OATH / SIGN } unto you, saith the LORD, that I will punish you in this place, that ye may know that my words shall surely stand against you for evil. This same exact Hebrew word " 'oth " is the same word that was said to have been given to Cain as His " mark " - oth, upon Him.

Also, there is another word = Hebrew 1588 = Gan. Meaning, A garden ( as fenced in or made with borders. ) - garden.
As Easton's Bible dictionary says, Cain means "tiller of the soil" and there is a literal Hebrew word that is related, similar but different than Cain, which is = Gan. Meaning, A garden.

I have studied extensively about the teachings that The Mormon { LDS } Organization believes about Cain and His Canaanite descendants were Africans and this is totally false and I disagree with Mormons about this.

I really like this forum.
reX
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5/15/2018 7:05:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/15/2018 3:18:25 AM, 2Simpleender wrote:
The English word " Cain " according to the historical Hebrew manuscript languistica is Hebrew 7014 = qayin / Kah'-yin. The name of the first child. - Cain.

From there, Kah'-yin / Cain the firstborn child"s name is marked. This mark sometimes determines the meaning and usage of the root word - { Cain / Kah'-yin } and how it is sometimes used in other words in the Hebrew language.

The Hebrew language uses similar root word Cain or Kah'-yin for other words such as Hebrew 7085 / kah-ak-ah' / Meaning an incision or gash, engraving a message or drawing on paper, stone or rock ect" : - + a form of the word, mark.


Referring to the mark that was put on Cain himself.
This word is used in Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

Also { as another totally unrelated word } just a side note, unrelated to the word Cain itself is the English word " OATH " Oath comes from the Hebrew word oth Hebrew 226
This Hebrew word oth means - An appearing of a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.: MARK, miracle, (en-) sign, token. / - signs and wonders.

The MARK that was placed on Cain is this very word - oth. This word goes on to describe the promises, pledges. OATHS, covenants, and Testaments that come from God that is literally manifested physically as physical supernatural signs and wonders and 'oths to the Hebrews as OATHS or SIGNS or Pledges and vindicated proofs [ signatures ] of His literal presence, His word, and existence.

Such as here in Jer 44:29 And this shall be a { 'oth / & MARK / OATH / SIGN } unto you, saith the LORD, that I will punish you in this place, that ye may know that my words shall surely stand against you for evil. This same exact Hebrew word " 'oth " is the same word that was said to have been given to Cain as His " mark " - oth, upon Him.

Also, there is another word = Hebrew 1588 = Gan. Meaning, A garden ( as fenced in or made with borders. ) - garden.
As Easton's Bible dictionary says, Cain means "tiller of the soil" and there is a literal Hebrew word that is related, similar but different than Cain, which is = Gan. Meaning, A garden.

I have studied extensively about the teachings that The Mormon { LDS } Organization believes about Cain and His Canaanite descendants were Africans and this is totally false and I disagree with Mormons about this.

I really like this forum.


Let"s atart talking realities here and not the opinions and imaginations of your minds.

Genesis 1: 29-30; Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30"And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground"everything that has the breath of life in it"I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

God says nothing there about slaughtering and eating the flesh of the animals that he created.

So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground. It would appear that in obeyance to the Lord, Cain was a vegetarian.

Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. [Something that the Lord had not provided as food for mankind] And yet the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering; but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard.

Why do you suppose God preferred the offering of slaughtered meat over the offering of the food that he had provided for man?
TheChristWithin
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5/15/2018 11:44:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/15/2018 7:05:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:

Let"s atart talking realities here and not the opinions and imaginations of your minds.

Genesis 1: 29-30; Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30"And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground"everything that has the breath of life in it"I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

God says nothing there about slaughtering and eating the flesh of the animals that he created.

So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground. It would appear that in obeyance to the Lord, Cain was a vegetarian.

Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. [Something that the Lord had not provided as food for mankind] And yet the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering; but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard.

Why do you suppose God preferred the offering of slaughtered meat over the offering of the food that he had provided for man?

I feel it is inappropriate to only understand the story of Genesis (or any of the five books of Moses) literally. Of course people can read it however they want, but it seems to me a literal reading will only end up with confusion and distraction from what is actually being imparted.

Because this story is found in the Torah, it would be prudent to recall that these scriptures have four levels of interpretation [PDSE] according to Jewish tradition:

1. P'shat [simple]
2. Remez [hint]
3. D"rash [concept]
4. Sud [hidden]

Obviously a literal reading will keep a reader contained within the first level P'shat (which is fine/necessary to start) but to approach Sud one has to understand to put much less emphasis on the literal word and approach it from an entirely different perspective.

With that said, we should also understand a little bit about what happened prior to Cain and Abel being born. Adam and Eve fell due to eating the forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In kabbalah - and as commented on at length in the Zohar - the forbidden fruit is the orgasm/ejaculation. Upon this, it becomes necessary to distinguish two archetypes: one adopting characteristics leading back to the garden, the other adopting characteristics consistent with the fall itself - hence we have Cain and Abel.

As was already pointed out, Cain means "tiller of the soil". The fruits of the ground which were offered (and subsequently rejected) pertain to the contents of ones own mind - to take a common expression "where'd you dig that up?" spoken upon the offering of a (perhaps bizarre) idea/notion, likewise the offering of Cain was his own product - hence the tiller/gardener analogy.

Abel, being a herdsman, sacrificed his first of flock which found favor with the Lord. This pertains to culturing the contents of ones own mind in preparation for the animal elements/components of it to be sacrifices as a burnt offering. This concept is alluded to frequently throughout the Bible and underscores the necessity of actively severing ones self from any/all animal qualities.

As such Cain is associated with the ego - producing a product(s) of ones own animal-like nature. Abel is associated with culturing the animal traits and producing an "animal sacrifice" - the former being rejected, the latter having favor. In this way the two archetypes make a marked distinction taking one back to the fundamental fall of man: the animal trait responsible for the fall was the inability to control the sexual energies/desire (resulting in such things as lust) which causes the spilling of the seed (which births Cain and Abel in the first place) and the human/Elohim trait responsible for distinguishing animal (lust) from man (sacrificing the animal nature). From this we derive the two principle archetypes of Cain and Abel.

We should also note that Cain was stronger than Abel and slew Abel out of enmity for his inferior offering. When it is understood that Cain and Abel are both contained within the soul of man generally (that is to say each individual has their own Cain and Abel contained within) this story can be understood and applied to modern living.

One way in which this fundamental story proves itself is by the simple observance of how so many problems yet plaguing humanity is humanity's overall inability to handle the sexual desire (manifest in lust). For example there are many "Canaanite" religious institutions that not only completely neglect this fundamental principle of chastity (preservation of the seed) but guide adherents to act upon the sexual energies. For example, in Islam we find the general notion that women are not allowed to refuse their husbands sex (a product of lust/fornication) and other related things such as polygamy.
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5/15/2018 11:50:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2018 11:49:08 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 3/31/2018 10:59:39 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
Religions such as Islam have merely institutionalized this desire.

I think the root myth may have something to do with conflict between animal herders (Abel)and crop farmers(Cain). YHWH favours Abel's animal sacrifice over Cain's vegetables (consistent with the YHWHist's fondness for animal-based ritual sacrifice), and jealousy causes Cain to kill Abel.

Cain leaves his parents, and we are told that he establishes a separate lineage and founds a city called Enoch, consistent with him representing a settled, town dwelling crop farming tribe quite apart from the nomadic Hebrews. In gen 4 we read that the descendants of Cain include those who dwell in tents, musicians and metal workers - presumably those were things the Hebrew did not do and considered thinhs only foreigners did!

Or it all happened exactly as written - I'm not sure.

Myth never happens exactly as written.
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5/15/2018 1:47:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/15/2018 11:44:21 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
At 5/15/2018 7:05:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:

Let"s atart talking realities here and not the opinions and imaginations of your minds.

Genesis 1: 29-30; Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30"And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground"everything that has the breath of life in it"I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

God says nothing there about slaughtering and eating the flesh of the animals that he created.

So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground. It would appear that in obeyance to the Lord, Cain was a vegetarian.

Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. [Something that the Lord had not provided as food for mankind] And yet the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering; but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard.

Why do you suppose God preferred the offering of slaughtered meat over the offering of the food that he had provided for man?

I feel it is inappropriate to only understand the story of Genesis (or any of the five books of Moses) literally. Of course people can read it however they want, but it seems to me a literal reading will only end up with confusion and distraction from what is actually being imparted.

Because this story is found in the Torah, it would be prudent to recall that these scriptures have four levels of interpretation [PDSE] according to Jewish tradition:

1. P'shat [simple]
2. Remez [hint]
3. D"rash [concept]
4. Sud [hidden]

Obviously a literal reading will keep a reader contained within the first level P'shat (which is fine/necessary to start) but to approach Sud one has to understand to put much less emphasis on the literal word and approach it from an entirely different perspective.

With that said, we should also understand a little bit about what happened prior to Cain and Abel being born. Adam and Eve fell due to eating the forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In kabbalah - and as commented on at length in the Zohar - the forbidden fruit is the orgasm/ejaculation. Upon this, it becomes necessary to distinguish two archetypes: one adopting characteristics leading back to the garden, the other adopting characteristics consistent with the fall itself - hence we have Cain and Abel.

As was already pointed out, Cain means "tiller of the soil". The fruits of the ground which were offered (and subsequently rejected) pertain to the contents of ones own mind - to take a common expression "where'd you dig that up?" spoken upon the offering of a (perhaps bizarre) idea/notion, likewise the offering of Cain was his own product - hence the tiller/gardener analogy.

Abel, being a herdsman, sacrificed his first of flock which found favor with the Lord. This pertains to culturing the contents of ones own mind in preparation for the animal elements/components of it to be sacrifices as a burnt offering. This concept is alluded to frequently throughout the Bible and underscores the necessity of actively severing ones self from any/all animal qualities.

As such Cain is associated with the ego - producing a product(s) of ones own animal-like nature. Abel is associated with culturing the animal traits and producing an "animal sacrifice" - the former being rejected, the latter having favor. In this way the two archetypes make a marked distinction taking one back to the fundamental fall of man: the animal trait responsible for the fall was the inability to control the sexual energies/desire (resulting in such things as lust) which causes the spilling of the seed (which births Cain and Abel in the first place) and the human/Elohim trait responsible for distinguishing animal (lust) from man (sacrificing the animal nature). From this we derive the two principle archetypes of Cain and Abel.

We should also note that Cain was stronger than Abel and slew Abel out of enmity for his inferior offering. When it is understood that Cain and Abel are both contained within the soul of man generally (that is to say each individual has their own Cain and Abel contained within) this story can be understood and applied to modern living.

One way in which this fundamental story proves itself is by the simple observance of how so many problems yet plaguing humanity is humanity's overall inability to handle the sexual desire (manifest in lust). For example there are many "Canaanite" religious institutions that not only completely neglect this fundamental principle of chastity (preservation of the seed) but guide adherents to act upon the sexual energies. For example, in Islam we find the general notion that women are not allowed to refuse their husbands sex (a product of lust/fornication) and other related things such as polygamy.


So when I write that you are speaking through your arce and all that you say is crap, it seems to you that a literal reading of what I have written will only end up with confusion and distraction from what is actually being imparted.

So please reveal what I actually meant, by writing that you are speaking through your arce?
TheChristWithin
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5/17/2018 3:42:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/15/2018 1:47:10 PM, Gentorev wrote:

So when I write that you are speaking through your arce and all that you say is crap, it seems to you that a literal reading of what I have written will only end up with confusion and distraction from what is actually being imparted.

So please reveal what I actually meant, by writing that you are speaking through your arce?

Sure.

What you mean is actually irrelevant - it is coming from your ego. When someone posts something that is not in agreement with your own personal view, you take offense and drop such comments as "out your arce".

I do spend my time researching many things: the Hebrew letters and where/how they came to be and what they mean, kabbalah, the Zohar and other related commentaries of the Torah etc. and the information I impart is what I collect from these sources as I go. There is nothing you will find in this thread as not being derived from these writings already.

I know it is not coming from my own "arce" and only such a suggestion would come from someone that, rather than asking "what lead you to think this way?" would rather defer to their own ego by making disparaging comments at others, as you have done.

There is nothing meaningful to be taken from a literal reading of Genesis and/or the Torah in general. It's fine to start, but as I stated already in another thread, an English translation of the Bible (let alone a literal reading of it) already suffers a great deal of distortion.

So rather than take your comment at face value (knowing it to be untrue) I rather ask where it came from - a similar approach to how I read/understand anything.
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5/20/2018 7:55:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2018 3:42:12 PM, TheChristWithin wrote:
At 5/15/2018 1:47:10 PM, Gentorev wrote:

So when I write that you are speaking through your arce and all that you say is crap, it seems to you that a literal reading of what I have written will only end up with confusion and distraction from what is actually being imparted.

So please reveal what I actually meant, by writing that you are speaking through your arce?

Sure.

What you mean is actually irrelevant - it is coming from your ego. When someone posts something that is not in agreement with your own personal view, you take offense and drop such comments as "out your arce".

I do spend my time researching many things: the Hebrew letters and where/how they came to be and what they mean, kabbalah, the Zohar and other related commentaries of the Torah etc. and the information I impart is what I collect from these sources as I go. There is nothing you will find in this thread as not being derived from these writings already.

I know it is not coming from my own "arce" and only such a suggestion would come from someone that, rather than asking "what lead you to think this way?" would rather defer to their own ego by making disparaging comments at others, as you have done.

There is nothing meaningful to be taken from a literal reading of Genesis and/or the Torah in general. It's fine to start, but as I stated already in another thread, an English translation of the Bible (let alone a literal reading of it) already suffers a great deal of distortion.

So rather than take your comment at face value (knowing it to be untrue) I rather ask where it came from - a similar approach to how I read/understand anything.

After listening to your dialogue, I am assuming that you are an exegetist whose critical exposition of the Scriptures, I find ridiculous.

Knowing from Scriptures Genesis 49: 5-6; that Reuben defiled his father"s bed, by having sex with Jacob"s concubine, Bilhah.

Then learning from the Testament of Reuben, that having seen Bilhah bathing in a covered place, Reuben lusted after her, then one night when they were camped near Ephrath, while his father Jacob was away visiting his father Isaac, and after a festival, Bilhah who had become drunk, lay uncovered in an intoxicated sleep in her tent.

Having therefore gone in and beheld her nakedness, he wrought the great impiety without Bilhah perceiving it, and leaving her still asleep, Reuben departed. Bilhah did not know that she had been raped and Reuben, riddled with guilt, did not tell anyone of his dark deed and yet Jacob found out. How?

From his deathbed, Benjamin, who was born on the way to Ephrath, said to all of his descendants who were gathered around their dying Patriarch, "As Isaac was born to Abraham in his old age, so also was I to Jacob. And since Rachel, who had remained barren for twelve years after she had borne Joseph, died in giving me birth, I had no milk; therefore I was suckled by Bilhah her handmaid."

Do you not find it amazing that Bilhah whose last son "Naphtali" was born before Gad and Asher some 14 years earlier, still had breast milk and was able to suckle the baby Benjamin?

Later, I was to ask one of your exegete/exegetist friends If he believed that Reuben, the first born son of Israel had raped Bilhah, and If he did so believe, could he accept the fact that a child may have been conceived from that rape?

This is his reply, which I then, and still do believe is no more than a load of unadulterated crap.

EXEGESIS...........[It is no longer disputed that in this and in every other genealogical account, tribal and not personal relations are designated. Marriage symbolizes in these early traditions the fusion of two tribes originally distinct. The husband represented the stronger tribe and gave his name to both; and the wife represented the weaker which merged in the stronger. If the weaker tribe was greatly the inferior of the stronger in authority and power, it was represented as a concubine (compare Stade, "Gesch. des Volkes Israel," 2d ed., i. 30). Consequently Bilhah (like Hagar, Keturah, and others) is to be regarded as the name of a tribe; even though there are no further indications of the fact, and the meaning of the name has not been determined. There is no proof of the accuracy of Ball's conjecture ("S. B. O. T." on Gen. xxx. 3) that "Bilhah" is connected with the Arabic "baliha" (simple, artless, easily misled).

Since Dan and Naphtali appear as the sons of the handmaid of Rachel, the mother of the tribe of Joseph, they are thus characterized as tribes of the second rank subordinate to Joseph. This is confirmed by such historic evidence concerning the tribes as has been preserved. It has not been determined whether Naphtali was always joined to Dan or was added at the period when the latter was driven from its settlement and forced to move to the north. It is possible that at first Dan was only a clan of the tribe of Joseph, like Benjamin, unsuccessfully trying to establish itself outside the original tribe; and it is not improbable that the portion of Dan which settled in the north came into intimate relations with the adjacent tribe of Naphtali. Such circumstances as these are reflected in the genealogical accounts.

According to Gen. xxxv. 22a, Reuben committed adultery with Bilhah; and according to Gen. xlix. 4, his downfall was due to his defiling his father's couch. The meaning of this story is doubtful. Dillmann, in his commentary on the passage, and Stade, ib. i. 151, think that reproach is attached to Reuben for adhering to the old custom by which the son inherits his father's concubines, at a time when the other Israelitish tribes had adopted different customs. A point against this assumption is that there are proofs of the existence of the custom in the land west of the Jordan as late as the time of the kings (compare II Sam. xvi. 21; I Kings ii. 13-25). The following explanation, suggested by Holzinger in his commentary on Gen. xxxv. 22, seems more likely: Reuben's position as first-born designates his greater power, which, however, was soon lost in one way or another. In the time of his strength he had tried to extend his power westward through the tribes descended from Bilhah; and later generations regarded this as a sin against Jacob. An analogy to this interpretation is to be found in the disapproval expressed in Gen. xxxiv. 30 of the treacherous attack on Shechem made by Simeon and Levi.]

Ignoring this exegesis as the verbal dysentery that it is, I continued to search the scriptures in my quest for the truth.

It was then that God"s word revealed to me that the giant Dan, was sterile and had adopted his little sister, the daughter of Bilhah, as his own child following the death of his mother Bilhah.

When a man has no sons and his progeny is counted through a daughter, that daughter, is given the appellation "BEN" and uninformed translators may erroneously interpret that daughter, who is given the appellation "BEN" to be a son. See Genesis 46: 23.

Dan"s adopted daughter, married a man from the tribe of Benjamin, to who she bore two sons before her husband divorced her, it was through the descendants of her first born son, that the tribe of Dan emerged. See 1 Chronicles 8: 8 to11. ABI, means "Jah is Father" and "ABITUB," the first born of Hushim, the adopted daughter of Dan, means, "Source of Good."

To be continued.
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5/20/2018 8:06:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Continued from post #11.

Later, Jacob whose name was changed to "Israel," and who was well aware from where the tribe of Dan had originated, adopted the two sons of Joseph as his own and they were divided into the two tribes of Ephraim and Manesseh

It appears that other male descendants of Bilhah the mother of Dan and Hushim, who are recorded in the Scriptures, were also sterile and were blessed with size and strength. The wife of a man named Manoah from the tribe of Dan had never been able to conceive in her womb until the intervention of an angel, after which she conceived and bore the biblical strong man "SAMSON" a great womaniser, who died childless.

Also Saul from the tribe of Benjamin, the first king of Israel, who is recorded to have stood a head taller than any other Israelite, was a descendant of the second son of the adopted daughter of Dan the son of Bilhah, which adopted daughter, had bore two sons from her union with a man from the tribe of Benjamin.

The tribe of Dan, the fifth child of Jacob, who received the seventh blessing from his father and the 7th allotment of land after the invasion of Canaan, was unable to remove the original inhabitants of the coastal land, [See Joshua 19: 40 to 48] which is now Gasa, and they were forced to live in the hill country with their brother tribe Benjamin, then after the other tribes had slaughtered all the inhabitants in the land of Benjamin, except for the 600 Danite descendants of Shaharaim from the tribe of Benjamin, who had escaped to the Rock of Rimon in the coastal land that had been allocated to the tribe of Dan, they were given 400 virgins from the descendants of Dinah, who, at the age of 12 years had been raped by Shechem, and another two hundred that they were allowed to steal, from the virgins who were dancing at a festival in Shiloh, while the other Israelites turned their backs, as they had made a solemn vow before God, that they would never give, in marriage, one of their daughters to a member of the tribe of Benjamin, and that's rape in any man's language. See Judges Chapter 21: 6-7.

The land of Benjamin was later divided between Judah and Manasseh, the 600 Danites, after losing the land that they had lived in, See Joshua 19: 47; with their children and all their belongings, [They were not coming back] moved north, kidnapping Jonathan the grandson of Moses, [whose concubine had been raped, sodomised and murdered by some no good Benjaminites in Gibeah] as their priest who had taken the silver Idol of Micah, which is suggested to be that of an Eagle, they attacked the peaceful town of Laish, slaughtering all the inhabitants and took up residence there, before moving to the coast, where later, in the ships of Dan they became seafaring merchants eventually establishing the Greako/Roman Empire.

Romulus (The tribe of Dan) and Remus, (The tribe of Benjamin,) who died after leaping the wall in their pursuit of the retreating Israelites, only to find that they were caught in a trap and slaughtered.) Romulus and Remus, who were suckled by a female wolf, [Hushim], that with the six hundred stolen virgins, (The rape of the Sabine women.)

After the slaughter of the tribe of Benjamin and the departure of the 600 Danites, who were the descendants of the Benjaminite husband of Dan"s adopted daughter, the pseudo tribe of Benjamin, was counted from the women of Benjamin, who had married men of the tribe of Judah.

1Kings 12: 21; when Rehoboam arrived in Jerusalem, he called together 180,000 of the best soldiers from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.

1 Kings 12: 20; Only the tribe of Judah remained Loyal to Rehoboam, David"s descendant.

The twelve disciples, represented the twelve tribes of Israel, Judas Iscariot the 12th disciple, who was predestined to be lost, represented the 12th tribe of Benjamin which had been exterminated by the other tribes.

The name "ISCARIOT" means, "Man of Kerioth," and Kerioth/Hazor was the area allocated to the pseudo tribe of Benjamin after their release from captivity in Babylon.
After the death of Judas Iscariot the 12th disciple, who, like the tribe of Benjamin, was hated by his brothers, they chose a replacement, of who we hear no more, but they did not have the authority to choose the replacement.

As Jesus chose the twelve, it was he who chose the replacement, and that replacement was Paul the son of a Roman Mother and a father from the pseudo tribe of Benjamin, who was commissioned to gather in the required Number of Gentiles to replace the 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin. Paul, of the pseudo tribe of Benjamin, who was to die in ROME.

Revelation 7: 4 to 8; reveals the 12 tribes from which the 144,000 are chosen, 12,000 from each of those 12 tribes, which are: Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Isaachar, Zebulun, "Joseph=Ephraim", and Benjamin.
Why is the tribe of Dan, which originated from the first born Child of Reuben the first born of Israel/Jacob, missing?

Dinah was the twin sister of Zebulun and the seventh child born to Jacob and his only true wife, "LEAH." The six sons born to Leah, had to receive the first six blessings, from their Father Israel/Jacob, Dinah divided the six sons of Leah, from the six sons of Rachel, Bilhah, and Zilpar, two sons from each concubine.

Although Dan was actually the fifth born son of Jacob, he received the 7th blessing from Israel in the line of blessings from first born, and received the 7th allotment of land in the promised kingdom, but he was unable to remove the original inhabitants and was forced to live with his brother tribe, "Benjamin."

And "Dinah," from whose descendants, 400 of the virgins that were given to the 600 survivors from the land of Benjamin, was the 7th born child of Israel, and she was born on the 7th hour, of the 7th day, of the 7th month, of the 7th year of that Jubilee. See the Book of Jubilees 28: 23.

Enoch, is the only exception of all mankind to be taken to the throne of the MOST HIGH in the creation, where he was anointed as the heir and successor to that throne, was the seventh from Adam the son of God, See Luke 3: 38. Jesus is the 70th descendant from Enoch, See Luke 3: 23-38, this means that Jesus is the 11th of the seventh born sons from Adam. Ten completes the cycle, eleven is the beginning of the new cycle.

Just as the elect and chosen ones have born the image of Adam from the first cycle, so too will they bear the image of Jesus from the second cycle who appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus in his glorified body of brilliant and blinding light.
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5/20/2018 8:15:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/15/2018 11:50:35 AM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 3/31/2018 11:49:08 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 3/31/2018 10:59:39 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
Religions such as Islam have merely institutionalized this desire.

I think the root myth may have something to do with conflict between animal herders (Abel)and crop farmers(Cain). YHWH favours Abel's animal sacrifice over Cain's vegetables (consistent with the YHWHist's fondness for animal-based ritual sacrifice), and jealousy causes Cain to kill Abel.

Cain leaves his parents, and we are told that he establishes a separate lineage and founds a city called Enoch, consistent with him representing a settled, town dwelling crop farming tribe quite apart from the nomadic Hebrews. In gen 4 we read that the descendants of Cain include those who dwell in tents, musicians and metal workers - presumably those were things the Hebrew did not do and considered thinhs only foreigners did!

Or it all happened exactly as written - I'm not sure.

Myth never happens exactly as written.
You do realise that you said this out loud, don't you? Oh dear.
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5/20/2018 10:40:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/20/2018 7:55:19 AM, Gentorev wrote:
After listening to your dialogue, I am assuming that you are an exegetist whose critical exposition of the Scriptures, I find ridiculous.

I will defend my position.

Knowing from Scriptures Genesis 49: 5-6; that Reuben defiled his father"s bed, by having sex with Jacob"s concubine, Bilhah.

Then learning from the Testament of Reuben, that having seen Bilhah bathing in a covered place, Reuben lusted after her, then one night when they were camped near Ephrath, while his father Jacob was away visiting his father Isaac, and after a festival, Bilhah who had become drunk, lay uncovered in an intoxicated sleep in her tent.

Having therefore gone in and beheld her nakedness, he wrought the great impiety without Bilhah perceiving it, and leaving her still asleep, Reuben departed. Bilhah did not know that she had been raped and Reuben, riddled with guilt, did not tell anyone of his dark deed and yet Jacob found out. How?

From his deathbed, Benjamin, who was born on the way to Ephrath, said to all of his descendants who were gathered around their dying Patriarch, "As Isaac was born to Abraham in his old age, so also was I to Jacob. And since Rachel, who had remained barren for twelve years after she had borne Joseph, died in giving me birth, I had no milk; therefore I was suckled by Bilhah her handmaid."

Do you not find it amazing that Bilhah whose last son "Naphtali" was born before Gad and Asher some 14 years earlier, still had breast milk and was able to suckle the baby Benjamin?

I understand Bilhah as representing MARA: the waters of impurity. They manifest in the liver and spleen via the blood. When we adulterate/fornicate, we are tainted by Mara.

Later, I was to ask one of your exegete/exegetist friends If he believed that Reuben, the first born son of Israel had raped Bilhah, and If he did so believe, could he accept the fact that a child may have been conceived from that rape?

Yes Reuben raped Bilhah but there are two ways to understand:
LITERALLY
SYMBOLICALLY

This is his reply, which I then, and still do believe is no more than a load of unadulterated crap.

EXEGESIS...........[It is no longer disputed that in this and in every other genealogical account, tribal and not personal relations are designated. Marriage symbolizes in these early traditions the fusion of two tribes originally distinct. The husband represented the stronger tribe and gave his name to both; and the wife represented the weaker which merged in the stronger. If the weaker tribe was greatly the inferior of the stronger in authority and power, it was represented as a concubine (compare Stade, "Gesch. des Volkes Israel," 2d ed., i. 30). Consequently Bilhah (like Hagar, Keturah, and others) is to be regarded as the name of a tribe; even though there are no further indications of the fact, and the meaning of the name has not been determined. There is no proof of the accuracy of Ball's conjecture ("S. B. O. T." on Gen. xxx. 3) that "Bilhah" is connected with the Arabic "baliha" (simple, artless, easily misled).

According to my understanding, Bilhah represents the bile of impurity: that which is not sacred; products of anger, lust, hatred, greed, gluttony etc. that manifest in the liver and spleen in YESOD according to the tree of life. Fornication is giving into temptation leading to such impurity (Reuben).

Since Dan and Naphtali appear as the sons of the handmaid of Rachel, the mother of the tribe of Joseph, they are thus characterized as tribes of the second rank subordinate to Joseph. This is confirmed by such historic evidence concerning the tribes as has been preserved. It has not been determined whether Naphtali was always joined to Dan or was added at the period when the latter was driven from its settlement and forced to move to the north. It is possible that at first Dan was only a clan of the tribe of Joseph, like Benjamin, unsuccessfully trying to establish itself outside the original tribe; and it is not improbable that the portion of Dan which settled in the north came into intimate relations with the adjacent tribe of Naphtali. Such circumstances as these are reflected in the genealogical accounts.

According to Gen. xxxv. 22a, Reuben committed adultery with Bilhah; and according to Gen. xlix. 4, his downfall was due to his defiling his father's couch.

Yes, but we may understand what that "means" differently. I do not frame this story in an HISTORICAL context because it is symbolic. Whether or not it actually happened along the historical timeline is irrelevant to me: it is the symbolic MEANING that is important.

The meaning of this story is doubtful. Dillmann, in his commentary on the passage, and Stade, ib. i. 151, think that reproach is attached to Reuben for adhering to the old custom by which the son inherits his father's concubines, at a time when the other Israelitish tribes had adopted different customs. A point against this assumption is that there are proofs of the existence of the custom in the land west of the Jordan as late as the time of the kings (compare II Sam. xvi. 21; I Kings ii. 13-25). The following explanation, suggested by Holzinger in his commentary on Gen. xxxv. 22, seems more likely: Reuben's position as first-born designates his greater power, which, however, was soon lost in one way or another. In the time of his strength he had tried to extend his power westward through the tribes descended from Bilhah; and later generations regarded this as a sin against Jacob. An analogy to this interpretation is to be found in the disapproval expressed in Gen. xxxiv. 30 of the treacherous attack on Shechem made by Simeon and Levi.]

It is all symbolic.

Ignoring this exegesis as the verbal dysentery that it is, I continued to search the scriptures in my quest for the truth.

It was then that God"s word revealed to me that the giant Dan, was sterile and had adopted his little sister, the daughter of Bilhah, as his own child following the death of his mother Bilhah.

When a man has no sons and his progeny is counted through a daughter, that daughter, is given the appellation "BEN" and uninformed translators may erroneously interpret that daughter, who is given the appellation "BEN" to be a son. See Genesis 46: 23.

Dan"s adopted daughter, married a man from the tribe of Benjamin, to who she bore two sons before her husband divorced her, it was through the descendants of her first born son, that the tribe of Dan emerged. See 1 Chronicles 8: 8 to11. ABI, means "Jah is Father" and "ABITUB," the first born of Hushim, the adopted daughter of Dan, means, "Source of Good."

To be continued.

Jah is Father
Havah is Mother
YHVH is: Jahovah (Jah+Havah) or Yod Havah
Elohim are the gods/goddesses (knowing good/evil) hence Yod Havah Elohim
which are the masculine/feminine principles which comes from Da'ath and descend into TIPHERETH the SON of MAN in CHRIST (Jesus) which descends into YESOD via the duality of purity/impurity which descends into MALKUTH which is the physical body and physical planet.

To be contnued.
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5/20/2018 10:59:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/20/2018 8:06:45 AM, Gentorev wrote:
Continued from post #11.

Later, Jacob whose name was changed to "Israel," and who was well aware from where the tribe of Dan had originated, adopted the two sons of Joseph as his own and they were divided into the two tribes of Ephraim and Manesseh

Yes; Jacob became Israel because he learned mastery over the fire, which is YESOD (sexual motor-instinctual energies). He wrestled with an angel in the ceremony of sex not to spill the seed (fornicate) and because he succeeded, his name was changed from Jacob to Israel which is the archetype required for the descent of CHRIST from TIPHERETH.

It appears that other male descendants of Bilhah the mother of Dan and Hushim, who are recorded in the Scriptures, were also sterile and were blessed with size and strength. The wife of a man named Manoah from the tribe of Dan had never been able to conceive in her womb until the intervention of an angel, after which she conceived and bore the biblical strong man "SAMSON" a great womaniser, who died childless.

Also Saul from the tribe of Benjamin, the first king of Israel, who is recorded to have stood a head taller than any other Israelite, was a descendant of the second son of the adopted daughter of Dan the son of Bilhah, which adopted daughter, had bore two sons from her union with a man from the tribe of Benjamin.

The tribe of Dan, the fifth child of Jacob, who received the seventh blessing from his father and the 7th allotment of land after the invasion of Canaan, was unable to remove the original inhabitants of the coastal land, [See Joshua 19: 40 to 48] which is now Gasa, and they were forced to live in the hill country with their brother tribe Benjamin, then after the other tribes had slaughtered all the inhabitants in the land of Benjamin, except for the 600 Danite descendants of Shaharaim from the tribe of Benjamin, who had escaped to the Rock of Rimon in the coastal land that had been allocated to the tribe of Dan, they were given 400 virgins from the descendants of Dinah, who, at the age of 12 years had been raped by Shechem, and another two hundred that they were allowed to steal, from the virgins who were dancing at a festival in Shiloh, while the other Israelites turned their backs, as they had made a solemn vow before God, that they would never give, in marriage, one of their daughters to a member of the tribe of Benjamin, and that's rape in any man's language. See Judges Chapter 21: 6-7.

The land of Benjamin was later divided between Judah and Manasseh, the 600 Danites, after losing the land that they had lived in, See Joshua 19: 47; with their children and all their belongings, [They were not coming back] moved north, kidnapping Jonathan the grandson of Moses, [whose concubine had been raped, sodomised and murdered by some no good Benjaminites in Gibeah] as their priest who had taken the silver Idol of Micah, which is suggested to be that of an Eagle, they attacked the peaceful town of Laish, slaughtering all the inhabitants and took up residence there, before moving to the coast, where later, in the ships of Dan they became seafaring merchants eventually establishing the Greako/Roman Empire.

Romulus (The tribe of Dan) and Remus, (The tribe of Benjamin,) who died after leaping the wall in their pursuit of the retreating Israelites, only to find that they were caught in a trap and slaughtered.) Romulus and Remus, who were suckled by a female wolf, [Hushim], that with the six hundred stolen virgins, (The rape of the Sabine women.)

After the slaughter of the tribe of Benjamin and the departure of the 600 Danites, who were the descendants of the Benjaminite husband of Dan"s adopted daughter, the pseudo tribe of Benjamin, was counted from the women of Benjamin, who had married men of the tribe of Judah.

1Kings 12: 21; when Rehoboam arrived in Jerusalem, he called together 180,000 of the best soldiers from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.

1 Kings 12: 20; Only the tribe of Judah remained Loyal to Rehoboam, David"s descendant.

The twelve disciples, represented the twelve tribes of Israel, Judas Iscariot the 12th disciple, who was predestined to be lost, represented the 12th tribe of Benjamin which had been exterminated by the other tribes.

The name "ISCARIOT" means, "Man of Kerioth," and Kerioth/Hazor was the area allocated to the pseudo tribe of Benjamin after their release from captivity in Babylon.
After the death of Judas Iscariot the 12th disciple, who, like the tribe of Benjamin, was hated by his brothers, they chose a replacement, of who we hear no more, but they did not have the authority to choose the replacement.

As Jesus chose the twelve, it was he who chose the replacement, and that replacement was Paul the son of a Roman Mother and a father from the pseudo tribe of Benjamin, who was commissioned to gather in the required Number of Gentiles to replace the 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin. Paul, of the pseudo tribe of Benjamin, who was to die in ROME.

Revelation 7: 4 to 8; reveals the 12 tribes from which the 144,000 are chosen, 12,000 from each of those 12 tribes, which are: Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Isaachar, Zebulun, "Joseph=Ephraim", and Benjamin.
Why is the tribe of Dan, which originated from the first born Child of Reuben the first born of Israel/Jacob, missing?

Dinah was the twin sister of Zebulun and the seventh child born to Jacob and his only true wife, "LEAH." The six sons born to Leah, had to receive the first six blessings, from their Father Israel/Jacob, Dinah divided the six sons of Leah, from the six sons of Rachel, Bilhah, and Zilpar, two sons from each concubine.

Although Dan was actually the fifth born son of Jacob, he received the 7th blessing from Israel in the line of blessings from first born, and received the 7th allotment of land in the promised kingdom, but he was unable to remove the original inhabitants and was forced to live with his brother tribe, "Benjamin."

And "Dinah," from whose descendants, 400 of the virgins that were given to the 600 survivors from the land of Benjamin, was the 7th born child of Israel, and she was born on the 7th hour, of the 7th day, of the 7th month, of the 7th year of that Jubilee. See the Book of Jubilees 28: 23.

Enoch, is the only exception of all mankind to be taken to the throne of the MOST HIGH in the creation, where he was anointed as the heir and successor to that throne, was the seventh from Adam the son of God, See Luke 3: 38. Jesus is the 70th descendant from Enoch, See Luke 3: 23-38, this means that Jesus is the 11th of the seventh born sons from Adam. Ten completes the cycle, eleven is the beginning of the new cycle.

Just as the elect and chosen ones have born the image of Adam from the first cycle, so too will they bear the image of Jesus from the second cycle who appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus in his glorified body of brilliant and blinding light.

When it is stated "born the image of Adam" I understand this as the pure human soul as found in TIPHERETH or the "son of man" which ONLY occurs after an initiate has:

Transcended KLIPOTH (physical)
Transcended YESOD (mastery of the earth/water/fire)
Follow DA'ATH from whence AIR comes and emanates from the MOST HIGH above into CHRIST which is in TIPHERETH (6th DAY OF CREATION or 6th DIMENSION).

ADAM was made on the sixth day, therefor ADAM (human soul) comes from the 6th HEAVEN down into the physical 3rd (4th being Yesod, 5th being Netzach/Hod which relates to the astral bodies of mind and emotion) and is made "in the image of the ELOHIM" which are the gods/goddesses of Yod Havah YHVH Jahovah therefor ALREADY MASTERS THEMSELVES knowing "good and evil".
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5/20/2018 11:41:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/20/2018 10:40:07 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
At 5/20/2018 7:55:19 AM, Gentorev wrote:
After listening to your dialogue, I am assuming that you are an exegetist whose critical exposition of the Scriptures, I find ridiculous.

I will defend my position.


You will attempt to defend your tenuous position.


Knowing from Scriptures Genesis 49: 5-6; that Reuben defiled his father"s bed, by having sex with Jacob"s concubine, Bilhah.

Then learning from the Testament of Reuben, that having seen Bilhah bathing in a covered place, Reuben lusted after her, then one night when they were camped near Ephrath, while his father Jacob was away visiting his father Isaac, and after a festival, Bilhah who had become drunk, lay uncovered in an intoxicated sleep in her tent.

Having therefore gone in and beheld her nakedness, he wrought the great impiety without Bilhah perceiving it, and leaving her still asleep, Reuben departed. Bilhah did not know that she had been raped and Reuben, riddled with guilt, did not tell anyone of his dark deed and yet Jacob found out. How?

From his deathbed, Benjamin, who was born on the way to Ephrath, said to all of his descendants who were gathered around their dying Patriarch, "As Isaac was born to Abraham in his old age, so also was I to Jacob. And since Rachel, who had remained barren for twelve years after she had borne Joseph, died in giving me birth, I had no milk; therefore I was suckled by Bilhah her handmaid."

Do you not find it amazing that Bilhah whose last son "Naphtali" was born before Gad and Asher some 14 years earlier, still had breast milk and was able to suckle the baby Benjamin?


I understand Bilhah as representing MARA: the waters of impurity. They manifest in the liver and spleen via the blood. When we adulterate/fornicate, we are tainted by Mara.


And where in scripture would we find that load of cods-wallop? Nowhere, except in your delusional brain.


Later, I was to ask one of your exegete/exegetist friends If he believed that Reuben, the first born son of Israel had raped Bilhah, and If he did so believe, could he accept the fact that a child may have been conceived from that rape?


Yes Reuben raped Bilhah but there are two ways to understand:
LITERALLY
SYMBOLICALLY


Not symbolically sunshine, Reuben Literally stuck his thingamabob into Bilhahs watchamacallit. You're an idiot aren't you?


This is his reply, which I then, and still do believe is no more than a load of unadulterated crap.

EXEGESIS...........[It is no longer disputed that in this and in every other genealogical account, tribal and not personal relations are designated. Marriage symbolizes in these early traditions the fusion of two tribes originally distinct. The husband represented the stronger tribe and gave his name to both; and the wife represented the weaker which merged in the stronger. If the weaker tribe was greatly the inferior of the stronger in authority and power, it was represented as a concubine (compare Stade, "Gesch. des Volkes Israel," 2d ed., i. 30). Consequently Bilhah (like Hagar, Keturah, and others) is to be regarded as the name of a tribe; even though there are no further indications of the fact, and the meaning of the name has not been determined. There is no proof of the accuracy of Ball's conjecture ("S. B. O. T." on Gen. xxx. 3) that "Bilhah" is connected with the Arabic "baliha" (simple, artless, easily misled).



According to my understanding, Bilhah represents the bile of impurity: that which is not sacred; products of anger, lust, hatred, greed, gluttony etc. that manifest in the liver and spleen in YESOD according to the tree of life. Fornication is giving into temptation leading to such impurity (Reuben).


And when you go to milk the BULL tomorrow Ya brainless twit beware, he kicks when you grab his balls.


Since Dan and Naphtali appear as the sons of the handmaid of Rachel, the mother of the tribe of Joseph, they are thus characterized as tribes of the second rank subordinate to Joseph. This is confirmed by such historic evidence concerning the tribes as has been preserved. It has not been determined whether Naphtali was always joined to Dan or was added at the period when the latter was driven from its settlement and forced to move to the north. It is possible that at first Dan was only a clan of the tribe of Joseph, like Benjamin, unsuccessfully trying to establish itself outside the original tribe; and it is not improbable that the portion of Dan which settled in the north came into intimate relations with the adjacent tribe of Naphtali. Such circumstances as these are reflected in the genealogical accounts.


And like I have said what a load of unadulterated crap dribbles from the mouth of you exegesists.


According to Gen. xxxv. 22a, Reuben committed adultery with Bilhah; ande said, "What a load of unadulterate3d crap. according to Gen. xlix. 4, his downfall was due to his defiling his father's couch.



Yes, but we may understand what that "means" differently. I do not frame this story in an HISTORICAL context because it is symbolic. Whether or not it actually happened along the historical timeline is irrelevant to me: it is the symbolic MEANING that is important.


Important to a brainless twit like yourself, because you invent your own symbolic meanings, in your twisted attempt to disprove Gods word as being historical.


The meaning of this story is doubtful. Dillmann, in his commentary on the passage, and Stade, ib. i. 151, think that reproach is attached to Reuben for adhering to the old custom by which the son inherits his father's concubines, at a time when the other Israelitish tribes had adopted different customs. A point against this assumption is that there are proofs of the existence of the custom in the land west of the Jordan as late as the time of the kings (compare II Sam. xvi. 21; I Kings ii. 13-25). The following explanation, suggested by Holzinger in his commentary on Gen. xxxv. 22, seems more likely: Reuben's position as first-born designates his greater power, which, however, was soon lost in one way or another. In the time of his strength he had tried to extend his power westward through the tribes descended from Bilhah; and later generations regarded this as a sin against Jacob. An analogy to this interpretation is to be found in the disapproval expressed in Gen. xxxiv. 30 of the treacherous attack on Shechem made by Simeon and Levi.]



It is all symbolic.


To brainless exegesists like yourself, who invent their own symbolic meanings to the historical events as recorded in the scriptures.


Ignoring this exegesis as the verbal dysentery that it is, I continued to search the scriptures in my quest for the truth.

It was then that God"s word revealed to me that the giant Dan, was sterile and had adopted his little sister, the daughter of Bilhah, as his own child following the death of his mother Bilhah.

When a man has no sons and his progeny is counted through a daughter, that daughter, is given the appellation "BEN" and uninformed translators may erroneously interpret that daughter, who is given the appellation "BEN" to be a son. See Genesis 46: 23.

Dan"s adopted daughter, married a man from the tribe of Benjamin, to who she bore two sons before her husband divorced her, it was through the descendants of her first born son, that the tribe of Dan emerged. See 1 Chronicles 8: 8 to11. ABI, means "Jah is Father" and "ABITUB," the first born of Hushim, the adopted daughter of Dan, means, "Source of Good."

To be continued.
Polytheist_Witch
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5/20/2018 11:56:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/20/2018 8:15:18 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/15/2018 11:50:35 AM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 3/31/2018 11:49:08 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 3/31/2018 10:59:39 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
Religions such as Islam have merely institutionalized this desire.

I think the root myth may have something to do with conflict between animal herders (Abel)and crop farmers(Cain). YHWH favours Abel's animal sacrifice over Cain's vegetables (consistent with the YHWHist's fondness for animal-based ritual sacrifice), and jealousy causes Cain to kill Abel.

Cain leaves his parents, and we are told that he establishes a separate lineage and founds a city called Enoch, consistent with him representing a settled, town dwelling crop farming tribe quite apart from the nomadic Hebrews. In gen 4 we read that the descendants of Cain include those who dwell in tents, musicians and metal workers - presumably those were things the Hebrew did not do and considered thinhs only foreigners did!

Or it all happened exactly as written - I'm not sure.

Myth never happens exactly as written.
You do realise that you said this out loud, don't you? Oh dear.

I know you literalist atheists are tards.
Gentorev
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5/20/2018 12:16:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/20/2018 10:59:27 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:

When it is stated "born the image of Adam" I understand this as the pure human soul as found in TIPHERETH or the "son of man" which ONLY occurs after an initiate has:

Transcended KLIPOTH (physical)
Transcended YESOD (mastery of the earth/water/fire)
Follow DA'ATH from whence AIR comes and emanates from the MOST HIGH above into CHRIST which is in TIPHERETH (6th DAY OF CREATION or 6th DIMENSION).

ADAM was made on the sixth day, therefor ADAM (human soul) comes from the 6th HEAVEN down into the physical 3rd (4th being Yesod, 5th being Netzach/Hod which relates to the astral bodies of mind and emotion) and is made "in the image of the ELOHIM" which are the gods/goddesses of Yod Havah YHVH Jahovah therefor ALREADY MASTERS THEMSELVES knowing "good and evil".


According to Genesis 1; Mankind was created on the sixth day, but according to Genesis 2; ADAM, was created on the seventh day, on a barren earth, that still had the seeds within it. And 'ADAM' was created before, [Jah=Lord, El-The creator] Jahel, Lord to the glory of God, took those seeds and planted a garden in Eden before placing Adam in it, after which, he then created the animals, and Last of all "EVE" who according to Pauls words in 1st Timothy 2: 14; it was she, who was the one who was deceived and broke God's Law.

Now let's see your poor delusional brain, invent some symbolism to disprove this historical event? You pitiful mentally unstable, biblically ignorant, exegesist.
Gentorev
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5/20/2018 1:02:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/20/2018 12:27:14 PM, JJ50 wrote:
I feel sorry for the psychiatrist treating Gentorev they have a very hard task!

The wrinkled and withered old senile hag has escaped again, quick, go get the straight jacket before the pommy bich hurts herself.

Someone has to be held accountable for allowing her out of her padded cell.
TheChristWithin
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5/20/2018 1:20:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/20/2018 11:41:13 AM, Gentorev wrote:

You will attempt to defend your tenuous position.

Ad hominem.

And where in scripture would we find that load of cods-wallop? Nowhere, except in your delusional brain.

Ad hominem.

Not symbolically sunshine, Reuben Literally stuck his thingamabob into Bilhahs watchamacallit. You're an idiot aren't you?

Ad hominem.

And when you go to milk the BULL tomorrow Ya brainless twit beware, he kicks when you grab his balls.

Ad hominem.

And like I have said what a load of unadulterated crap dribbles from the mouth of you exegesists.

Ad hominem.

Important to a brainless twit like yourself, because you invent your own symbolic meanings, in your twisted attempt to disprove Gods word as being historical.

Ad hominem.

To brainless exegesists like yourself, who invent their own symbolic meanings to the historical events as recorded in the scriptures.

Ad hominem.

There is not a single response you made which did not involve ad hominem: according to my understanding of the scriptures through kabbalah, destruction of the ego is absolutely necessary.

I have also added you to my list of trolls because you habitually resort to ad hominem which, according to the scriptures, one can not even BEGIN the basic minor initiations which began with Abram by Melchizedek with an ego present.

The sacraments found in ALL churches (of Egypt, Christianity/Hinduism) begin with baptism (utilizing sexual waters), which leads to penance (destruction of ego) which leads to communion (receiving the word of God) which opens the way to the major mysteries. Therefor destruction of the ego (Jesus tempted in the wilderness by Satan) is mandatory before ANYTHING else happens.

For these reasons it would be pointless to discuss anything with you.

At 5/20/2018 12:16:41 PM, Gentorev wrote:

Now let's see your poor delusional brain, invent some symbolism to disprove this historical event? You pitiful mentally unstable, biblically ignorant, exegesist.

Ad Hominem. There is a lot of bitterness in you: this bitterness indicates presence of EGO which must be destroyed in order to receive the "word of God" which, in Greek, was LOGOS.

It is not the Torah/Bible/Qur'an, those are scriptures. You are reading scriptures ABOUT the word of God, but reading them LITERALLY. I do not read them literally because I understand that the real LOGOS (word of God) descends into the astral body of an initiate who passes the minor/major initiations.

Therefor discussing the scriptures relating to the "word of God" with someone with a fat ego will yield nothing but the bitterness of that ego.

This is why the symbols used in kabbalah directly relate to the Hebrew letters themselves which comprise the original TORAH (LAW). To read the scriptures in an English translation already "defiles" the original writings; whether or not one wants to consider the scriptures themselves as the "word of God".

My own observations: you are FULL of INFORMATION. You are treating the scriptures as books of FACTS. There is a difference between facts and wisdom/understanding. You don't need facts for wisdom/understanding.

I therefor treat nothing in the Bible as fact; that Jesus was "tempted" in the wilderness by Satan, for example, is a STORY about someone UNDERGOING the (required) sacrament of PENANCE which is destruction of the ego. Therefor people who are actively working toward DESTROYING the ego is "in the wilderness" being tempted by Satan.

Using rhetorical ad hominem is a product of the ego, which means it CONTROLS YOU rather than you CONTROLLING IT. See Moses, Aaron, and Pharaoh to understand that internal battle.
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5/21/2018 10:10:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/20/2018 1:20:56 PM, TheChristWithin wrote:
At 5/20/2018 11:41:13 AM, Gentorev wrote:

You will attempt to defend your tenuous position.

Ad hominem.

And where in scripture would we find that load of cods-wallop? Nowhere, except in your delusional brain.

Ad hominem.

Not symbolically sunshine, Reuben Literally stuck his thingamabob into Bilhahs watchamacallit. You're an idiot aren't you?

Ad hominem.

And when you go to milk the BULL tomorrow Ya brainless twit beware, he kicks when you grab his balls.

Ad hominem.

And like I have said what a load of unadulterated crap dribbles from the mouth of you exegesists.

Ad hominem.

Important to a brainless twit like yourself, because you invent your own symbolic meanings, in your twisted attempt to disprove Gods word as being historical.

Ad hominem.

To brainless exegesists like yourself, who invent their own symbolic meanings to the historical events as recorded in the scriptures.

Ad hominem.

There is not a single response you made which did not involve ad hominem: according to my understanding of the scriptures through kabbalah, destruction of the ego is absolutely necessary.


You're talking Shytt.


I have also added you to my list of trolls because you habitually resort to ad hominem which, according to the scriptures, one can not even BEGIN the basic minor initiations which began with Abram by Melchizedek with an ego present.


You're talking shytt again


The sacraments found in ALL churches (of Egypt, Christianity/Hinduism) begin with baptism (utilizing sexual waters), which leads to penance (destruction of ego) which leads to communion (receiving the word of God) which opens the way to the major mysteries. Therefor destruction of the ego (Jesus tempted in the wilderness by Satan) is mandatory before ANYTHING else happens.


You're talking shytt again.


For these reasons it would be pointless to discuss anything with you.


When you talk shytt all the time it's pointless to discuss anything.


At 5/20/2018 12:16:41 PM, Gentorev wrote:

Now let's see your poor delusional brain, invent some symbolism to disprove this historical event? You pitiful mentally unstable, biblically ignorant, exegesist.


I see that you have avoided revealing your ignorce in stating that Adam was created on the sixth creative day.

Ad Hominem. There is a lot of bitterness in you: this bitterness indicates presence of EGO which must be destroyed in order to receive the "word of God" which, in Greek, was LOGOS.


And there's a lot of Shytt in you, who thought that Adam was created on the sixth creative day, you poor dumb arce disbeliever.


It is not the Torah/Bible/Qur'an, those are scriptures. You are reading scriptures ABOUT the word of God, but reading them LITERALLY. I do not read them literally because I understand that the real LOGOS (word of God) descends into the astral body of an initiate who passes the minor/major initiations.


More of your ignorant shytt.


Therefor discussing the scriptures relating to the "word of God" with someone with a fat ego will yield nothing but the bitterness of that ego.


Discussing the written scriptures with an idiot who refuses to accept the historical facts recorded therein, and who puts its own dumb arce symbolic and non factual interpretation to everything, would be a waste of precious time, the best one can do is to continue to reveal it to be the idiot that it is, until it come to the realisation that it is no more that a dumb arse disbeliever.


This is why the symbols used in kabbalah directly relate to the Hebrew letters themselves which comprise the original TORAH (LAW). To read the scriptures in an English translation already "defiles" the original writings; whether or not one wants to consider the scriptures themselves as the "word of God".


Sandalphon is an archangel in Jewish and Christian writings. Sandalphon figures prominently in the mystical literary traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and early Christianity, notably in the Midrash, Talmud, and Kabbalah.

Who is Sandalphon?


My own observations: you are FULL of INFORMATION.


You can say that again, what a pity that you are so lacking in INFORMATION, and are forced to rely on the rubbishing imagination of your twisted mind.


You are treating the scriptures as books of FACTS. There is a difference between facts and wisdom/understanding. You don't need facts for wisdom/understanding.


Of course I am treating the scriptures as books of FACTS, and not as the symbolic shytt that comes from your twisted and ignorant mind.


I therefor treat nothing in the Bible as fact; that Jesus was "tempted" in the wilderness by Satan, for example, is a STORY about someone UNDERGOING the (required) sacrament of PENANCE which is destruction of the ego. Therefor people who are actively working toward DESTROYING the ego is "in the wilderness" being tempted by Satan.


You say that you treat NOTHING in the bible as Fact, so to You, Jesus, Pontus Pilate, Herod the Great, Ceasar Augustus, etc, did not exist. Am I correct?


Using rhetorical ad hominem is a product of the ego, which means it CONTROLS YOU rather than you CONTROLLING IT. See Moses, Aaron, and Pharaoh to understand that internal battle.


I see Moses, Aaron and 'ALL' the Pharaohs as historical people, but you, who treat nothing in the Bible as fact, see them as figments of someone imagination, do You?

Wake up to yourself kiddo, the day will come when you will realise Just what a fukwit you have been, then perhaps we can have a meaningful discussion.

Until then, i will continue to expose your rubbish.
Deb-8-A-Bull
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5/21/2018 10:41:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I thought with a post like this I'd see the word ( BEGAT ) a few times .
If anyone could put it in a post , I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks.
keithprosser
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5/21/2018 10:55:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/21/2018 10:41:19 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
I thought with a post like this I'd see the word ( BEGAT ) a few times .
If anyone could put it in a post , I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks.

Begat tard.
Deb-8-A-Bull
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5/21/2018 10:58:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/21/2018 10:55:18 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 5/21/2018 10:41:19 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
I thought with a post like this I'd see the word ( BEGAT ) a few times .
If anyone could put it in a post , I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks.

Begat tard.

Begotten
Thx man.
keithprosser
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5/21/2018 11:04:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/21/2018 10:58:28 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 5/21/2018 10:55:18 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 5/21/2018 10:41:19 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
I thought with a post like this I'd see the word ( BEGAT ) a few times .
If anyone could put it in a post , I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks.

Begat tard.

Begotten
Thx man.

My pleasure.
TheChristWithin
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5/21/2018 12:52:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/21/2018 10:10:55 AM, Gentorev wrote:

I see that you have avoided revealing your ignorce in stating that Adam was created on the sixth creative day.

And there's a lot of Shytt in you, who thought that Adam was created on the sixth creative day, you poor dumb arce disbeliever.

I don't think such things.

Discussing the written scriptures with an idiot who refuses to accept the historical facts recorded therein,

This is funny - historical facts? You were there?

and who puts its own dumb arce symbolic and non factual interpretation to everything, would be a waste of precious time, the best one can do is to continue to reveal it to be the idiot that it is, until it come to the realisation that it is no more that a dumb arse disbeliever.

I don't use my "own" system, I use kabbalah which requires understanding what each Hebrew letters is and represents.

By the way "disbeliever" is one with an ego intact.

Sandalphon is an archangel in Jewish and Christian writings. Sandalphon figures prominently in the mystical literary traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and early Christianity, notably in the Midrash, Talmud, and Kabbalah.

Who is Sandalphon?

https://en.wikipedia.org...

You can say that again, what a pity that you are so lacking in INFORMATION, and are forced to rely on the rubbishing imagination of your twisted mind.

Information is not understanding; neither is it wisdom, nor is it truth. It is just information. Information can be used to build these things, but you can't expect lumbar and stone to build itself a house.

You are treating the scriptures as books of FACTS. There is a difference between facts and wisdom/understanding. You don't need facts for wisdom/understanding.

Of course I am treating the scriptures as books of FACTS, and not as the symbolic shytt that comes from your twisted and ignorant mind.

You bear testimony of that which you have not witnessed commence? Surely this is the product of a twisted and ignorant mind.

You say that you treat NOTHING in the bible as Fact, so to You, Jesus, Pontus Pilate, Herod the Great, Ceasar Augustus, etc, did not exist. Am I correct?

No you are not. Whether or not these figures existed has nothing to do with whether or not what is written of them is FACT. I don't bother with such contrivance: I am only concerned about what they represent in the writings.

I see Moses, Aaron and 'ALL' the Pharaohs as historical people, but you, who treat nothing in the Bible as fact, see them as figments of someone imagination, do You?

No, I see them as archetypes which come down from the world of AZILUTH. Whether or not they existed and/or actually performed what is written is irrelevant because what they accomplished is symbolic for what one must accomplish within ones own self, beginning with the destruction of the ego.

How are you on that?

Wake up to yourself kiddo, the day will come when you will realise Just what a fukwit you have been, then perhaps we can have a meaningful discussion.

Until then, i will continue to expose your rubbish.

Recognizing ones own ignorance is a virtue that leads to the tree of knowledge.

Inability to recognize ones own ego is what produces bitterness which leads to ignorance.
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5/23/2018 6:09:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/21/2018 12:52:56 PM, TheChristWithin wrote:
At 5/21/2018 10:10:55 AM, Gentorev wrote:

I see that you have avoided revealing your ignorce in stating that Adam was created on the sixth creative day.

And there's a lot of Shytt in you, who thought that Adam was created on the sixth creative day, you poor dumb arce disbeliever.



I don't think such things.


I know you dont, you're too far up yourself and your ridiculous symbolic meanings to everything as recorded in the scriptures, to think in terms of reality.


Discussing the written scriptures with an idiot who refuses to accept the historical facts recorded therein,



This is funny - historical facts? You were there?


Nope and I wasn't there when Herod the Great died in 4 B.C. shortly after a failed suicide attempt either. You weren't there when the Romans sacked Jerusalem, so obviously you dont believe that ever happened.


and who puts its own dumb arce symbolic and non factual interpretation to everything, would be a waste of precious time, the best one can do is to continue to reveal it to be the idiot that it is, until it come to the realisation that it is no more that a dumb arse disbeliever.



I don't use my "own" system, I use kabbalah which requires understanding what each Hebrew letters is and represents.

By the way "disbeliever" is one with an ego intact.


Well seeing as you are the most egotistical, Grandiose, meglamanical, mental Masturbating wanker that I have ever run across, then I would be correct in stating that you are a disbeliever in the facts as recorded in the scriptures.


Sandalphon is an archangel in Jewish and Christian writings. Sandalphon figures prominently in the mystical literary traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and early Christianity, notably in the Midrash, Talmud, and Kabbalah.

Who is Sandalphon?



https://en.wikipedia.org...


So wikipedia saved you from revealing your ignorance to scripture once again.

But that is correct, Enoch from the pre-flood age of man, and Elijah, of the post flood age, are the only two who are recorded in the OT to have been taken by the MOST HIGH, while still alive.

According to one school of thought Enoch was taken by God and transformed into Metatron, explaining the mysterious passage "Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away (Genesis 5:24 NIV), and Hebrew 11: 5.

The Zohar calls Metatron "the Youth", and identifies him as the angel that led the people of Israel through the wilderness after their exodus from Egypt, and describes him as a heavenly priest.

Metatron is also mentioned in the Pseudepigrapha, most prominently in the Hebrew Book of Enoch (also called Third Enoch), in which his grand title, "the lesser YHVH" [The Son of JHWH] resurfaces. According to Johann Eisenmenger, Metatron transmits the daily orders of God to the angels Gabriel and Sammael. Metatron is often identified as being the twin brother to Sandalphon, who is said to have been the prophet Elijah.

Enoch was carried to the throne of the Most High in the creation and anointed as his successor. Elijah was also taken to heaven to stand before the face of Enoch into all eternity. Elijah was not the twin to Enoch, but the duplication of Enoch as he had evolved to at that particular point in time.

Sandalphron and Metatron are post human angels, Metatron is the name that was given to Enoch after he had been translated from a body of corruptible matter into a glorious body of incorruptible light, and Sandalphron, who is erroneously thought by some to be Metatron"s twin, is in fact Elijah"s angelic name after he was carried up to stand before Enoch and was also transfigured.

The coming Elijah/Sandalphron, the Jewish Messiah, is not the twin of our heavenly Father Enoch/Metatron, but he is the duplication of our heavenly Father, who offers up his immortal body of glorious and brilliant light, in order that those who believe in him might live.

Enoch the living one, of the previous world that was destroyed by water, was in the valley of Man, (The spiritual dimension that co-exists within this three dimensional world) for three days, or three periods of one thousand years, before he was reborn on earth as the man "Jesus."

1st Peter 1: 20-21; He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.

From the book of Jubliees 4: 23; "And He, (Enoch) was taken from among the children of men, and we (The angels) conducted him into the Garden of Eden in majesty and honour, and behold there he writes down the condemnation and judgement of the world, and all the wickedness of the children of men. And on account of it (The condemnation (Accusations) and Judgement of Enoch the anointed successor to the throne of the "MOST HIGH" in the creation.) God brought about the flood on all the land of Eden.

When the pre-flood androgynous body of mankind, of which body, Adam was the indwelling spiritual Father and Godhead, was submerged in the baptismal waters of the earth, It was the spiritual Enoch, in the body of the eight in the ark of salvation, who came up from those baptismal waters.

Noah, his wife, their three sons and their three wives, are all direct descendants of Enoch"s six sons, Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion and Giadad, and now, within all the descendants of Noah, behind the veil of the flesh, within the inner most sanctuary of his earthly tabernacle, the living spirit of our ancestral Father, evolves to the ends of time.

The only man to have been reborn so far, is Enoch, who was in the valley of man for three days (Three thousand years,) before he was reborn as the man Jesus over whom death had no power.

From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; "And He (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: "On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die." For this reason Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for He died during it."

The next to be reborn, will be Elijah, who also, was carried up without ever experiencing death, and who has now been in the valley of man for three days, but his chosen earthly host body will be quickened by his living presence and be translated to an immortal body of glorious light.

Jesus proved to the world that he who believed the words that the lord put into the mouth of his servant, even though he dies, yet shall he live again, the host body chosen by Elijah will prove to the world that he who believes the words spoken through jesus, the servant of the Lord and lives, will never die.

According to the words of the Lord which were recorded by his chosen scribes and not by the rubbishing symbolic shytt sprouted by the servants of Satan, Elijah is the Son of Man who is soon to appear before the terrible day of the Lord.

Mark 9: 10; the disciples asked Jesus; "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?" His answer was, "Elijah is indeed coming first to get everything ready (Future tense) Yet why do the scriptures say that the 'SON of Man' will suffer much and be rejected? I tell you, how ever that Elijah (The Son of Man) has already come and people treated him just as they pleased, as the scriptures say about him."

Malachi 4: 5; But before the Great and Terrible day of the Lord comes (Which has not occurred as yet) I will send you the propet Elijah, etc.

To be continued.
Gentorev
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5/23/2018 9:07:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Continued frpm post #28.

Mark 9: 10; the disciples asked Jesus; "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?" His answer was, "Elijah is indeed coming first to get everything ready (Future tense) Yet why do the scriptures say that the 'SON of Man' will suffer much and be rejected? I tell you, how ever that Elijah (The Son of Man) has already come and people treated him just as they pleased, as the scriptures say about him."

Malachi 4: 5; But before the Great and Terrible day of the Lord comes (Which has not occurred as yet) I will send you the propet Elijah, etc.

Malachi 3: 1-2; The Lord Almighty answers; "I will send my messenger (ELIJAH) to prepare the way for me. Then the Lord you are looking for will suddenly come to his temple, (The earthly host body chosen by Elijah, Just as the man Jesus was the chosen host body for Enoch, who filled him with his spirit. The Temple that the Lord raised up three days after it was destroyed.) The messenger you long to see will come and proclaim my covenant.

But who will be able to endue the day when he comes? Who will be able to survive when he appears?

Jesus proved to the world that he who believes in him, who put his words into the mouth of his servant, even though he dies, yet shall he live again. The earthly host body of Elijah, which will be quickened by the living presence of Elijah, will prove to the world that he who lives and believes, will never die.

This is from the Last Testament of Benjamin to his children. let us see your symbolic meaning to this recorded scriptural message?

9. Now I suppose, from the words of the righteous Enoch, that there will be also evil-doings among you: for you will commit fornication with the fornication of Sodom, and shall perish all save a few, and will multiply inordinate lusts with women; and the kingdom of the Lord shall not be among you, for immediately He will take it away. Nevertheless the temple of God shall be built in your portion, and shall be glorious among you. For He shall take it, and the twelve tribes shall be gathered together there, and all the Gentiles, until the Most High shall send forth His salvation in the visitation of His only-begotten one. And He shall enter into the front of the temple, and there shall the Lord be treated with outrage, and He shall be lifted up upon a tree. And the veil of the temple shall be rent, and the Spirit of God shall descend upon the Gentiles as fire poured forth. And He shall arise from the grave, and shall ascend from earth into heaven: and I know how lowly He shall be upon the earth, and how glorious in the heaven.

According to this, if you have the ability to comprehend that which is written here, the spirit of the Lord has not yet descended from his heights in time, to fill the body of his chosen earthly obedient servant 'Jesus.'
2Simpleender
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6/2/2018 3:32:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
That was very educating although many of these posts are about things that are not in the Bible.

Thanks for sharing.
reX

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