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the day the sun didn't set

linate
Posts: 1,137
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5/29/2018 9:47:24 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
here is another myth from the bible that many take as accurate.

"On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: "Sun, stand still over Gibeon, / and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." / So the sun stood still, / and the moon stopped, / till the nation avenged itself on its enemies. . . . The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel!" Joshua 10:12"14

is it better to just say the bible got it wrong, or that God caused a miracle with no explanation to occur?

here is a dude that agrees with me, that this doesn't look figurative but he says it should be taken literally.
\https://www.gotquestions.org...

and another very intelligent looking guy basically doing a good job covering a range of possibilities, though just concluding it was a miracle that the sun actually stopped, or something
https://www.blueletterbible.org...

i guess if a person (such as ethan) thinks the myth of noah is literal, i dont know why he would care about just rationalizing away making this story literal too. we can't disprove that God performed an undetected miracle, after all.

was it a miracle? i dont see any other good explanations other than it was either a miracle, or it never happened. i guess it's possible, but it hurts christians' reputations to not be ready to admit when there is just a simple error, a story, a myth, in the bible. these people are defending a religious proposition, over the truth. "the bible must be true, so let's find a way to rationalize it". it's a defect in their brain, is what it is.
janesix
Posts: 8,233
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5/29/2018 9:51:30 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 5/29/2018 9:47:24 PM, linate wrote:
here is another myth from the bible that many take as accurate.

"On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: "Sun, stand still over Gibeon, / and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." / So the sun stood still, / and the moon stopped, / till the nation avenged itself on its enemies. . . . The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel!" Joshua 10:12"14

is it better to just say the bible got it wrong, or that God caused a miracle with no explanation to occur?

here is a dude that agrees with me, that this doesn't look figurative but he says it should be taken literally.
\https://www.gotquestions.org...

and another very intelligent looking guy basically doing a good job covering a range of possibilities, though just concluding it was a miracle that the sun actually stopped, or something
https://www.blueletterbible.org...

i guess if a person (such as ethan) thinks the myth of noah is literal, i dont know why he would care about just rationalizing away making this story literal too. we can't disprove that God performed an undetected miracle, after all.

was it a miracle? i dont see any other good explanations other than it was either a miracle, or it never happened. i guess it's possible, but it hurts christians' reputations to not be ready to admit when there is just a simple error, a story, a myth, in the bible. these people are defending a religious proposition, over the truth. "the bible must be true, so let's find a way to rationalize it". it's a defect in their brain, is what it is.
Yet you think resurrection happened.It seems you get to pick and choose which parts of the bible are facts.
Phase
Posts: 252
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5/29/2018 9:59:29 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 5/29/2018 9:47:24 PM, linate wrote:
here is another myth from the bible that many take as accurate.

"On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: "Sun, stand still over Gibeon, / and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." / So the sun stood still, / and the moon stopped, / till the nation avenged itself on its enemies. . . . The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel!" Joshua 10:12"14

is it better to just say the bible got it wrong, or that God caused a miracle with no explanation to occur?

here is a dude that agrees with me, that this doesn't look figurative but he says it should be taken literally.
\https://www.gotquestions.org...

and another very intelligent looking guy basically doing a good job covering a range of possibilities, though just concluding it was a miracle that the sun actually stopped, or something
https://www.blueletterbible.org...

i guess if a person (such as ethan) thinks the myth of noah is literal, i dont know why he would care about just rationalizing away making this story literal too. we can't disprove that God performed an undetected miracle, after all.

was it a miracle? i dont see any other good explanations other than it was either a miracle, or it never happened. i guess it's possible, but it hurts christians' reputations to not be ready to admit when there is just a simple error, a story, a myth, in the bible. these people are defending a religious proposition, over the truth. "the bible must be true, so let's find a way to rationalize it". it's a defect in their brain, is what it is.

"There are extra-biblical references to this event, as well, from traditions in all parts of the world. Legends of a long day are found in Egypt, Greece, and other ancient lands. And among the American Indians, South Sea islanders, and others in the western hemisphere are legends of a long night - which would indeed make sense, seeing how these people lived in the opposite hemisphere."
linate
Posts: 1,137
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5/29/2018 10:06:14 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 5/29/2018 9:51:30 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/29/2018 9:47:24 PM, linate wrote:
here is another myth from the bible that many take as accurate.

"On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: "Sun, stand still over Gibeon, / and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." / So the sun stood still, / and the moon stopped, / till the nation avenged itself on its enemies. . . . The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel!" Joshua 10:12"14

is it better to just say the bible got it wrong, or that God caused a miracle with no explanation to occur?

here is a dude that agrees with me, that this doesn't look figurative but he says it should be taken literally.
\https://www.gotquestions.org...

and another very intelligent looking guy basically doing a good job covering a range of possibilities, though just concluding it was a miracle that the sun actually stopped, or something
https://www.blueletterbible.org...

i guess if a person (such as ethan) thinks the myth of noah is literal, i dont know why he would care about just rationalizing away making this story literal too. we can't disprove that God performed an undetected miracle, after all.

was it a miracle? i dont see any other good explanations other than it was either a miracle, or it never happened. i guess it's possible, but it hurts christians' reputations to not be ready to admit when there is just a simple error, a story, a myth, in the bible. these people are defending a religious proposition, over the truth. "the bible must be true, so let's find a way to rationalize it". it's a defect in their brain, is what it is.
Yet you think resurrection happened.It seems you get to pick and choose which parts of the bible are facts.

it's a fair accusation, on the surface. but, i think miracles occur even today, and that there are no good explanations for them, and the science corrobrates this (such as all the miracles from the congretation of the doctrine of the saints in the catholic church).. examples.

http://www.debate.org...

the story of noah or the day the earth stood still, these violate the science as we know it because of how large of scale they are with nothing to back it up. like i said, it's fair to think the resurrection could be just a story and violates what we know, but we can't see on a large scale something being violated. and, we see the testimony of the apostles and followers who were executed for their belief. you might call it plausible deniability, but i call it 'possible enough', something i want to believe. and, show me something that looks supernatural happening to atheists the way they do to believers... and maybe i'll consider your position. whenever i post that challenge, all i hear is crickets, and a lot of rationalizing by atheists and skeptics .
Polytheist_Witch
Posts: 4,423
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5/29/2018 10:14:48 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 5/29/2018 9:47:24 PM, linate wrote:
here is another myth from the bible that many take as accurate.

"On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: "Sun, stand still over Gibeon, / and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." / So the sun stood still, / and the moon stopped, / till the nation avenged itself on its enemies. . . . The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel!" Joshua 10:12"14

is it better to just say the bible got it wrong, or that God caused a miracle with no explanation to occur?

here is a dude that agrees with me, that this doesn't look figurative but he says it should be taken literally.
\https://www.gotquestions.org...

and another very intelligent looking guy basically doing a good job covering a range of possibilities, though just concluding it was a miracle that the sun actually stopped, or something
https://www.blueletterbible.org...

i guess if a person (such as ethan) thinks the myth of noah is literal, i dont know why he would care about just rationalizing away making this story literal too. we can't disprove that God performed an undetected miracle, after all.

was it a miracle? i dont see any other good explanations other than it was either a miracle, or it never happened. i guess it's possible, but it hurts christians' reputations to not be ready to admit when there is just a simple error, a story, a myth, in the bible. these people are defending a religious proposition, over the truth. "the bible must be true, so let's find a way to rationalize it". it's a defect in their brain, is what it is.

The Bible, like any holy book, is myth. Tard is reported
keithprosser
Posts: 8,122
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5/29/2018 10:28:16 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 5/29/2018 9:59:29 PM, Phase wrote:

"There are extra-biblical references to this event, as well, from traditions in all parts of the world. Legends of a long day are found in Egypt, Greece, and other ancient lands. And among the American Indians, South Sea islanders, and others in the western hemisphere are legends of a long night - which would indeed make sense, seeing how these people lived in the opposite hemisphere."

People will have to do their own digging to see if those alleged corroborations stack up. this looks like a reasonable place to start:

http://www.geocentricity.com...

as it references a fair number of them.

With reference to an earlier thread, it is obvious that to make the sun appear stationary in the sky in a geocentric cosmos only requires the motion of the sun to be suspended. In a heliocentric cosmos it requires the world to suddenly stop spinning which would cause 1000 mpg winds and vast tsunamis, unless that too was also supernaturally controlled. It is, I feel, a myth only geocentrists would invent.

A god capable ofsuch a mirace could of course hide or otherwise or prevent any detectble effect by which joshua's long day could be disproven today, so I won't even try to prove it didn't/couldn't happen. Myth, eclipse or miracle - believe what you will.
dee-em
Posts: 10,593
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5/30/2018 5:28:02 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 5/29/2018 9:47:24 PM, linate wrote:
here is another myth from the bible that many take as accurate.

"On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: "Sun, stand still over Gibeon, / and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." / So the sun stood still, / and the moon stopped, / till the nation avenged itself on its enemies. . . . The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel!" Joshua 10:12"14

is it better to just say the bible got it wrong, or that God caused a miracle with no explanation to occur?

here is a dude that agrees with me, that this doesn't look figurative but he says it should be taken literally.
\https://www.gotquestions.org...

and another very intelligent looking guy basically doing a good job covering a range of possibilities, though just concluding it was a miracle that the sun actually stopped, or something
https://www.blueletterbible.org...

i guess if a person (such as ethan) thinks the myth of noah is literal, i dont know why he would care about just rationalizing away making this story literal too. we can't disprove that God performed an undetected miracle, after all.

was it a miracle? i dont see any other good explanations other than it was either a miracle, or it never happened. i guess it's possible, but it hurts christians' reputations to not be ready to admit when there is just a simple error, a story, a myth, in the bible. these people are defending a religious proposition, over the truth. "the bible must be true, so let's find a way to rationalize it". it's a defect in their brain, is what it is.

Of course it never happened. Such claims could be made with impunity in those days because the ancients had no idea that it violated the laws of the universe. They weren't aware of any such laws. In fact the picture they had of the cosmos was completely at odds with reality:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

The Sun and the Moon were quite small and tracked across the firmament (rakia). Having them temporarily stop in their tracks and then continue on again was therefore no big deal. The tiny stars could fall out of the firmament and become shooting stars. Also no big deal. The ancients had no concept of the vast scale of the universe and how the Earth was in orbit around a huge Sun (a long, long way from us) and the stars were other suns unimaginably further away still.

The Bible is full of these kinds of errors because they didn't know enough then to appreciate the impossibility of what they were asserting.
Lying and/or abusive trolls on permanent ignore: ethang5, skipsaweirdo, dsjpk5, Polytheist_Witch, Studio-B, TKDB, Factseeker, graceofgod.
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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5/30/2018 5:39:29 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 5/29/2018 9:59:29 PM, Phase wrote:
At 5/29/2018 9:47:24 PM, linate wrote:
here is another myth from the bible that many take as accurate.

"On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: "Sun, stand still over Gibeon, / and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." / So the sun stood still, / and the moon stopped, / till the nation avenged itself on its enemies. . . . The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel!" Joshua 10:12"14

is it better to just say the bible got it wrong, or that God caused a miracle with no explanation to occur?

here is a dude that agrees with me, that this doesn't look figurative but he says it should be taken literally.
\https://www.gotquestions.org...

and another very intelligent looking guy basically doing a good job covering a range of possibilities, though just concluding it was a miracle that the sun actually stopped, or something
https://www.blueletterbible.org...

i guess if a person (such as ethan) thinks the myth of noah is literal, i dont know why he would care about just rationalizing away making this story literal too. we can't disprove that God performed an undetected miracle, after all.

was it a miracle? i dont see any other good explanations other than it was either a miracle, or it never happened. i guess it's possible, but it hurts christians' reputations to not be ready to admit when there is just a simple error, a story, a myth, in the bible. these people are defending a religious proposition, over the truth. "the bible must be true, so let's find a way to rationalize it". it's a defect in their brain, is what it is.

"There are extra-biblical references to this event, as well, from traditions in all parts of the world. Legends of a long day are found in Egypt, Greece, and other ancient lands. And among the American Indians, South Sea islanders, and others in the western hemisphere are legends of a long night - which would indeed make sense, seeing how these people lived in the opposite hemisphere."

Citations puhhhhhleeese.
linate
Posts: 1,137
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6/1/2018 11:34:08 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
well, i remember the story of fatima, where the sun supposedly danced in front of seventy thousand people. as far as i can tell, there are lots of people who say it happened an no dissent to it. i guess i'm quicker to accept this because of the evidence. obviously the sun didn't dance in space, but something sounds like it happened. my point, if im willing to accept this, maybe the bible story has more truth to it than i'm willing to give it.
ethang5
Posts: 13,783
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6/1/2018 1:25:16 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 5/29/2018 9:47:24 PM, linate wrote:

here is another myth from the bible that many take as accurate.

"On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: "Sun, stand still over Gibeon, / and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." / So the sun stood still, / and the moon stopped, / till the nation avenged itself on its enemies. . . . The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel!" Joshua 10:12"14

is it better to just say the bible got it wrong, or that God caused a miracle with no explanation to occur?

The truth is always better. Did you not know this?

here is a dude that agrees with me, that this doesn't look figurative but he says it should be taken literally.
\https://www.gotquestions.org...

So what if some random guy agrees with you?

and another very intelligent looking guy..

How is how he looks relevant? Are you gay?

...basically doing a good job covering a range of possibilities, though just concluding it was a miracle that the sun actually stopped, or something
https://www.blueletterbible.org...

No argument. No debate. You pick the "rebuttals" yourself. Any opposition are weasel words. Right? Coward.

i guess if a person (such as ethan) thinks the myth of noah is literal, i dont know why he would care about just rationalizing away making this story literal too.

Of course, you can snipe about Ethan in a side post, but you wont talk to Ethan. You wont address his rebuttals. You will pre-decide that his positiion is a "rationalization" and like a coward, pretend your comment is his position. That still is lying slick.

we can't disprove that God performed an undetected miracle, after all.

If it is undected, how will we even know about it to disprove it? And why would our tasks be to disprove miracles? You often make these non-sensical comments that show your true intent.

was it a miracle? i dont see any other good explanations other than it was either a miracle, or it never happened.

And be careful to never tell us what you actually think.

i guess it's possible, but it hurts christians' reputations to not be ready to admit when there is just a simple error, a story, a myth, in the bible. these people are defending a religious proposition, over the truth. "the bible must be true, so let's find a way to rationalize it". it's a defect in their brain, is what it is.

And you decide when it is true? Are you stupid? What is the standard for the story being a simple error, a real story, or a myth? Can you tell us? Or are we to take you on faith?

Who is to decide when someone is defending a religious proposition instead of truth? You? Based on what?

Hey Mr. christian, tell us one miracle in the bible you believe was unequivocavely a miracle. You do not believe miracles exist. Don't lie, you don't.

And this is why you wont get into an exchange with me, because you know I will show your dishonesty and lack of logic. So you only talk about me in posts you do not address to me. You are a coward and a liar.

How do you judge when a story in the bible is true or false? What method do you use to determine whether a passage is literal or figurative? I bet you have no system. You simply go by how it seems to you. And it seems to you always happens to be the same way it seems to atheists. Please.

You are here preaching to atheists. They already agree with you sheep-top. Christians know your intention.

Note to Gentle Readers: This loser has been known to post fake verses not in the bible. Please check any verse he posts. Integrety is not what it used to be.
Goldtop
Posts: 6,986
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6/1/2018 1:35:12 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 6/1/2018 1:25:16 PM, ethang5 wrote:

Note to Gentle Readers: This loser has been known to post fake verses not in the bible. Please check any verse he posts. Integrety is not what it used to be.

*crickets*
RoderickSpode
Posts: 4,268
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6/2/2018 4:09:52 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 5/29/2018 9:47:24 PM, linate wrote:
here is another myth from the bible that many take as accurate.

"On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: "Sun, stand still over Gibeon, / and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." / So the sun stood still, / and the moon stopped, / till the nation avenged itself on its enemies. . . . The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel!" Joshua 10:12"14

is it better to just say the bible got it wrong, or that God caused a miracle with no explanation to occur?

here is a dude that agrees with me, that this doesn't look figurative but he says it should be taken literally.
\https://www.gotquestions.org...

and another very intelligent looking guy basically doing a good job covering a range of possibilities, though just concluding it was a miracle that the sun actually stopped, or something
https://www.blueletterbible.org...

i guess if a person (such as ethan) thinks the myth of noah is literal, i dont know why he would care about just rationalizing away making this story literal too. we can't disprove that God performed an undetected miracle, after all.

was it a miracle? i dont see any other good explanations other than it was either a miracle, or it never happened. i guess it's possible, but it hurts christians' reputations to not be ready to admit when there is just a simple error, a story, a myth, in the bible. these people are defending a religious proposition, over the truth. "the bible must be true, so let's find a way to rationalize it". it's a defect in their brain, is what it is.

There's really no need to not take this literally. And yes it is a real incredible miracle. Not just because God caused the moon to stop and the Sun to stand still. It's also an incredible miracle because if this happened in the natural, the world would be destroyed.

Astounding, yes. Being astounded is reasonable.

Matthew 8:27
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
The men were amazed and asked, "What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!"


But no reason to write it off as non-literal. It was an unusual situation that can only occur when the Creator intervenes in nature.

Can you remain young without aging while your peers are getting naturally old? No. It's scientifically impossible to remain 20 years old biologically speaking while your peers become 40. Unless, you get into a rocket and experience time dilation over a long period of time. 200 years ago, assuming this wasn't known, it would probably be considered impossible. So under normal circumstances, the best one can do is eat properly, exercise, and maybe look young for their age. But no one can prevent the type of natural (rapid) aging without leaving normal circumstances by placing oneself in a contraption that moves at extreme enough velocity.

This scenario is not even categorized as supernatural anywhere, because now science understands this. So how much more plausible would it be for the creator of the universe to affect natural time for some people while the rest of the world is unaffected? God operated from outside of our dimension. (I use the term dimension for lack of a better one). An agent from the outside of our dimension (the creator) is able to enter our dimension and influence time and anything else considered divine or a miracle.

It shouldn't be too surprising that God operates in the miraculous without the whole world knowing, or seeing it. Just consider the greatest miracle (as some have said) which is salvation of the Soul. This divine miracle outside of the natural can happen to an individual without someone 2 feet away being aware of it.

Really no one should have any problem at all with any miracle when considering how miraculous it would be to create a universe. No one can honestly dispute the possibility of a creator, so what seems to cause many people problems with miracles like this is that they have a hard time believing such a being of obvious grand intelligence would interact with mere humans. Would it really be such a difficult task for a creator of a universe to stop or slow time in a particular location? It shouldn't, but people relate the incident to fairy tales because they have a hard time believing the creator would intervene in a battle. Same as with the talking donkey. Would a creator of an entire universe with life (including the donkey) be able cause an animal to speak? The concept shouldn't bother anyone. But again, they have a hard time grasping the concept of a creator taking time to cause a diviner to stop in his tracks by causing his donkey to speak to him. They read this as a fairy tale because it's common for fairy tales to have talking animals.
keithprosser
Posts: 8,122
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6/2/2018 4:57:04 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 5/29/2018 9:47:24 PM, linate wrote:

There's no getting around that all you need for a 'miracle' is a pen, ink and paper.
ethang5
Posts: 13,783
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6/2/2018 5:16:38 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 6/2/2018 4:57:04 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 5/29/2018 9:47:24 PM, linate wrote:

There's no getting around that all you need for a 'miracle' is a pen, ink and paper.

And a sheepskin. Size 12.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 4,268
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6/2/2018 1:26:45 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 6/2/2018 4:57:04 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 5/29/2018 9:47:24 PM, linate wrote:

There's no getting around that all you need for a 'miracle' is a pen, ink and paper.

And it's all you need for a news report.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 4,268
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6/2/2018 1:27:07 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 6/2/2018 5:16:38 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/2/2018 4:57:04 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 5/29/2018 9:47:24 PM, linate wrote:

There's no getting around that all you need for a 'miracle' is a pen, ink and paper.

And a sheepskin. Size 12.

Lol.