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Is God"s Kingdom a real government?

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7/19/2013 6:29:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
some people believe that the Kingdom was established in the first century, but was it really?

Check out the scriptures below, and ask yourself have all these things which are the fruits of the Kingdom come to pass in the 1000 years Christ was to reign before handing over the Kingdom to his father?

I have included a few pointed questions for you to ask yourself about the Scripture or, group of Scriptures that follow them

So, Is God"s Kingdom a real government? Or is it, instead, a condition in the hearts of men?

Luke 17:20,21. Was it a condition in the hearts of Jews is business. The Pharisees. He had earlier condemned?

Does the Bible actually speak of God"s Kingdom as being a government?

Isa. 9:6, 7,

Who are the rulers in the Kingdom?

Rev. 15:3
Dan. 7:13, 14. (see Mark 14:61, 62)
Rev. 5:9, 10.
Revelation 14:1-3.

What effect will this Kingdom have on human governments?

Dan. 2:44

What will God"s Kingdom accomplish?

1) Sanctify Jehovah"s name and uphold his sovereignty

Matt. 6:9, 10.
Ezek. 38:23

2) Put an end to Satan"s tolerated rulership over the world.

Rev. 20:2, 3
Rev. 5:13
Rev. 15:3, 4
Rom. 8:19-21

3) Free mankind from all threat of war.

Ps. 46:8, 9
Isa. 2:4
Ps. 110:5
Ps. 72:12-14.

4) Provide an abundance of food for all mankind.

Ps. 72:16
Isa. 25:6
Luke 7:22
Luke 9:11
Isa. 65:21, 22.

5) Assure satisfying employment for all.

Isa. 65:23

6) Guarantee security, freedom from danger to one"s person or property.

Mic. 4:4
Ps. 37:10, 11.

7) Cause righteousness and justice to prevail.

2 Pet. 3:13
Isa. 11:3-5

8) Safeguard mankind from any injury due to natural forces.

Mark 4:37-41

9) Resurrect the dead.

John 5:28, 29.
Romans 6:7

10) Remove all death due to inheritance of Adamic sin.

Isa. 25:8
Rev. 21:4

11) Provide a world in which people genuinely love one another.

John 13:35

12) Bring animals and humans into harmonious relationship with one another.

Isa. 11:6-9.
Isaiah 65:25
Hos. 2:18

13) Make the earth a paradise

Ps. 98:7-9.
Genesis 1:28
Genesis 2:15.
Isaiah 55:11.
It impossible to make a horse drink which is not thirsty, or eat if it is not hungry.

Likewise it is impossible to teach a person who does not wish to learn. Matthew 13:15.
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7/20/2013 2:45:38 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
MCB: "Put an end to Satan"s tolerated rulership over the world.

Rev. 20:2, 3
Rev. 5:13
Rev. 15:3, 4"

Anna: It is indeed a shame that you are ruled by Satan, MadCornish. You all but admit it - or confess it, over and over and over.

Let's look at those passages and see if they teach what YOU say they teach. I tend to doubt it. Not surprising, they are from Revelation which, of course, contains highly figurative language that every pseudoseer can pervert to his own ends

"And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and cast him into the abyss, and shut it , and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time."

No mention of any kingdom of any kind. No mention of earth. No mention of rulers. MadCornish, are you taking a tremendous leap and LITERALIZING a passage describing something that was to "shortly come to pass" 2,000 years ago? Your "shortly come to pass" was "figurative" (aka, "meaningless) - but the 1,000 years is LITERAL? Perchance it refers to an extended period of calm and prosperity for the early church which was preceded by severe persecutions, including beheadings.

Has is occurred to you that this "abyss", or "bottomless pit" might be merely figurative?

Well, let's see the next proof text:

"And every created thing which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things are in them, heard I saying, Unto him that sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb, be the blessing, and the honor, and the glory, and the dominion, for ever and ever." (Rev 5:13)

MadCornish, from THAT you deduce that it means "Put an end to Satan"s tolerated rulership over the world." I bet you do not believe EVERY created thing will be saying ANYTHING "unto him that sitteth on the throne." Do you believe, for instance, that rocks will talk? water? earthworms? Surely will all know the passage is an hyperbole and highly metaphorical: it is extremely figurative, and hardly qualifies as a proof text.


"And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, O Lord God, the Almighty; righteous and true are thy ways, thou King of the ages. Who shall not fear, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy; for all the nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy righteous acts have been made manifest."

That means that the kingdom will ""Put an end to Satan"s tolerated rulership over the world." Why it doesn't even mention any kingdom. How'd you get a "kingdom" out of THAT passage? If you are going to draw conclusions about this "kingdom", it would be nice if the "proof text" mentioned it.


"For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope" (Rom 8)

Again, no mention of any kingdom at all.

This all looks to me like a fanciful theory in which the so-called "proof texts" go in one big circle without ever proving the proposition - and each one needs a big dose of imagination. It is no accident that three of the four come from apocalyptic literature.

However, you have this plain passage in Colossians:

" thanks unto the Father, who made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light; who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; 14in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins."

That's hardly figurative. Note the difference between apocalyptic literature and plain, didactic statements of fact! Paul is telling the Colossians that HE and THEY were transformed - by God - FROM the power of darkness (Hey, that would be Satan's rule, right?) into the KINGDOM of the SON (That would be Jesus Christ's kingdom). Why someone who claims to revere the scriptures would go out of his head and exclaim, "Paul wasn't really in the kingdom. The kingdom didn't come until 1914" is beyond me.
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7/20/2013 2:52:16 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
MCB: "some people believe that the Kingdom was established in the first century, but was it really?"

Anna: Yeah, people like Paul and John for starters - men who plainly, without question, stated that they were IN the kingdom. Lest anyone think this was a special privilege, Paul said the Colossian church was also in the kingdom at that time. John describes himself as a fellow resident of Christ's kingdom along with the first century readers of Revelation.

Yet, you, MCB, have the nerve to say "some people believe it." The problem with Paul and John and the Colossians is that they didn't believe all of your fanciful and imaginative speculations. You place so much weight on your own skewed interpretations of certain OT prophesies (most of which were fulfilled in Jesus Christ and His gospel) that you ultimately just dig in, plant your feet, and declare, "The kingdom did not come in the first century. I don't care what Paul and John and others said. It just couldn't have."

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