A question to the religious...

At 8/26/2013 6:56:19 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
If I became convinced moral realism was false.
If Jesus' bones were found.
If I became convinced of metaphysical naturalism/physicalism.

Are just some ways I can think of.

At 8/26/2013 5:58:13 PM, MysticEgg wrote:
Dear faithful,

As the title suggests, I have a question to all religious people. The question is:

"What will, if anything, convince you to renounce your faith?"

A simple question but with a difficult answer. I'm genuinely intrigued and I believe religion is a fascinating topic. I would appreciate it if I could get someone to explain what can. I know it's very personal, but the floor's open to any and all. (Although, if you're not religious, you might have a hard time answering the question :P )

Sincerely and with kindest regards,
An interested atheist.

At 8/26/2013 10:01:33 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:

At 8/26/2013 5:58:13 PM, MysticEgg wrote:
Dear faithful,

As the title suggests, I have a question to all religious people. The question is:

"What will, if anything, convince you to renounce your faith?"

A simple question but with a difficult answer. I'm genuinely intrigued and I believe religion is a fascinating topic. I would appreciate it if I could get someone to explain what can. I know it's very personal, but the floor's open to any and all. (Although, if you're not religious, you might have a hard time answering the question :P )

Sincerely and with kindest regards,
An interested atheist.

One must show absolutely that God does not exist and that Jesus Christ was a fake.

At 8/26/2013 10:13:21 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:01:33 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:

At 8/26/2013 5:58:13 PM, MysticEgg wrote:
Dear faithful,

As the title suggests, I have a question to all religious people. The question is:

"What will, if anything, convince you to renounce your faith?"

A simple question but with a difficult answer. I'm genuinely intrigued and I believe religion is a fascinating topic. I would appreciate it if I could get someone to explain what can. I know it's very personal, but the floor's open to any and all. (Although, if you're not religious, you might have a hard time answering the question :P )

Sincerely and with kindest regards,
An interested atheist.

One must show absolutely that God does not exist and that Jesus Christ was a fake.

So basically nothing

At 8/26/2013 10:17:25 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:13:21 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:01:33 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:

At 8/26/2013 5:58:13 PM, MysticEgg wrote:
Dear faithful,

As the title suggests, I have a question to all religious people. The question is:

"What will, if anything, convince you to renounce your faith?"

A simple question but with a difficult answer. I'm genuinely intrigued and I believe religion is a fascinating topic. I would appreciate it if I could get someone to explain what can. I know it's very personal, but the floor's open to any and all. (Although, if you're not religious, you might have a hard time answering the question :P )

Sincerely and with kindest regards,
An interested atheist.

One must show absolutely that God does not exist and that Jesus Christ was a fake.

So basically nothing

Without that, one would have nothing to convince someone who has felt influenced by God.

At 8/26/2013 6:56:19 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
If I became convinced moral realism was false.

If Jesus' bones were found.
If I became convinced of metaphysical naturalism/physicalism.

Are just some ways I can think of.

At 8/26/2013 10:20:15 PM, 000ike wrote:

At 8/26/2013 6:56:19 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
If I became convinced moral realism was false.

This shouldn't be too hard. This should do it, one day.

At 8/26/2013 10:20:03 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:17:25 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:13:21 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:01:33 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:

At 8/26/2013 5:58:13 PM, MysticEgg wrote:
Dear faithful,

As the title suggests, I have a question to all religious people. The question is:

"What will, if anything, convince you to renounce your faith?"

A simple question but with a difficult answer. I'm genuinely intrigued and I believe religion is a fascinating topic. I would appreciate it if I could get someone to explain what can. I know it's very personal, but the floor's open to any and all. (Although, if you're not religious, you might have a hard time answering the question :P )

Sincerely and with kindest regards,
An interested atheist.

One must show absolutely that God does not exist and that Jesus Christ was a fake.

So basically nothing

Without that, one would have nothing to convince someone who has felt influenced by God.

Well there is always 'on the balance of probabilities'. Or even 'beyond reasonable doubt'. You require proof of the falsehood of something I haven't even seen convincing evidence of in the first place. If your position is that where there is no evidence people should be able to believe what they want then fair enough, I'll submit to that. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking there is any possibility that either of those things can be proven absolutely.

At 8/26/2013 10:23:21 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:20:03 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:17:25 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:13:21 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:01:33 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:

At 8/26/2013 5:58:13 PM, MysticEgg wrote:
Dear faithful,

As the title suggests, I have a question to all religious people. The question is:

"What will, if anything, convince you to renounce your faith?"

A simple question but with a difficult answer. I'm genuinely intrigued and I believe religion is a fascinating topic. I would appreciate it if I could get someone to explain what can. I know it's very personal, but the floor's open to any and all. (Although, if you're not religious, you might have a hard time answering the question :P )

Sincerely and with kindest regards,
An interested atheist.

One must show absolutely that God does not exist and that Jesus Christ was a fake.

So basically nothing

Without that, one would have nothing to convince someone who has felt influenced by God.

Well there is always 'on the balance of probabilities'. Or even 'beyond reasonable doubt'. You require proof of the falsehood of something I haven't even seen convincing evidence of in the first place. If your position is that where there is no evidence people should be able to believe what they want then fair enough, I'll submit to that. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking there is any possibility that either of those things can be proven absolutely.

Oh, I know they can't. That is why a devout religious person that believes in God and/or Jesus Christ has all the reason to never stop believing.

At 8/26/2013 10:23:21 PM, AeneasPhebe wrote:
Oh, I know they can't. That is why a devout religious person that believes in God and/or Jesus Christ has all the reason to never stop believing.

At 8/26/2013 8:52:57 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:

At 8/26/2013 6:56:19 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
If I became convinced moral realism was false.
If Jesus' bones were found.
If I became convinced of metaphysical naturalism/physicalism.

Are just some ways I can think of.

What if Aliens came to Earth, and they are as much more intelligent than us as we are to chimps, and they were all Atheists when asked about God? lol

At 8/26/2013 10:23:07 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:20:15 PM, 000ike wrote:

At 8/26/2013 6:56:19 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
If I became convinced moral realism was false.

This shouldn't be too hard. This should do it, one day.

I'm not sure that there are good arguments against the realism of morality if you presuppose the existence of God. If you presuppose his non-existence then there are good arguments. If you presuppose neither then you have nothing to go on because the existence of God is a rational explanation for how morality could be real.

I think there are good arguments for why we should believe moral realism is false, but they are not reasons that actually concern its truth but rather the benefits of acting as if it is false.

At 8/26/2013 10:20:15 PM, 000ike wrote:

At 8/26/2013 6:56:19 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
If I became convinced moral realism was false.

This shouldn't be too hard. This should do it, one day.

At 8/26/2013 10:35:07 PM, popculturepooka wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:20:15 PM, 000ike wrote:

At 8/26/2013 6:56:19 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
If I became convinced moral realism was false.

This shouldn't be too hard. This should do it, one day.

It's possbile but doubt it. I find the arguments for moral realism a billion times more convincing then the ones against. Besides, I used to be a moral subjectivist and I find I have no reason to go back to being one or a moral nihilist.

At 8/26/2013 10:29:07 PM, 000ike wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:23:07 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:

At 8/26/2013 10:20:15 PM, 000ike wrote:

At 8/26/2013 6:56:19 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
If I became convinced moral realism was false.

This shouldn't be too hard. This should do it, one day.

I'm not sure that there are good arguments against the realism of morality if you presuppose the existence of God. If you presuppose his non-existence then there are good arguments. If you presuppose neither then you have nothing to go on because the existence of God is a rational explanation for how morality could be real.

I think there are good arguments for why we should believe moral realism is false, but they are not reasons that actually concern its truth but rather the benefits of acting as if it is false.

I don't really see why people think divine morality is objective morality. Even if you do presuppose God, what he deems a proper employment of freewill would still be relative to him and his imposition of consequences. A person's who is unfazed by the possibility of hell would bear no moral imperative to act according to God's laws. So all it is, is relativism assigned to an eternal creature. The ethics are not, in themselves, absolute.

At 8/26/2013 5:58:13 PM, MysticEgg wrote:
Dear faithful,

As the title suggests, I have a question to all religious people. The question is:

"What will, if anything, convince you to renounce your faith?"

A simple question but with a difficult answer. I'm genuinely intrigued and I believe religion is a fascinating topic. I would appreciate it if I could get someone to explain what can. I know it's very personal, but the floor's open to any and all. (Although, if you're not religious, you might have a hard time answering the question :P )

Sincerely and with kindest regards,
An interested atheist.

At 8/27/2013 12:39:45 AM, Suqua wrote:

At 8/26/2013 5:58:13 PM, MysticEgg wrote:
Dear faithful,

As the title suggests, I have a question to all religious people. The question is:

"What will, if anything, convince you to renounce your faith?"

A simple question but with a difficult answer. I'm genuinely intrigued and I believe religion is a fascinating topic. I would appreciate it if I could get someone to explain what can. I know it's very personal, but the floor's open to any and all. (Although, if you're not religious, you might have a hard time answering the question :P )

Sincerely and with kindest regards,
An interested atheist.

I would have to hate that God loves me. Or just not believe that God is interested in me.

At 8/26/2013 5:58:13 PM, MysticEgg wrote:
Dear faithful,

As the title suggests, I have a question to all religious people. The question is:

"What will, if anything, convince you to renounce your faith?"

A simple question but with a difficult answer. I'm genuinely intrigued and I believe religion is a fascinating topic. I would appreciate it if I could get someone to explain what can. I know it's very personal, but the floor's open to any and all. (Although, if you're not religious, you might have a hard time answering the question :P )

Sincerely and with kindest regards,
An interested atheist.