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Why Are Immigrants Necessary?

ethang5
Posts: 19,253
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8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in? Why?

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life? What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry? And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

They will say, "Immigrants aren't terrorists!"
No one said they were. But we can't distinguish which are terrorists and which are not. Is the risk not too great then?

"Immigrants are less criminal than citizens."
So what? The citizen belongs, and already is, here. What reason justifies importing even more crime?

"Humanitarian reasons."
How humanitarian was it for the 80 people run over by a truck in France? How can you help foreigners at the expense of the lives of citizens?

"The society needs the cheap labour."
How many dead innocents is that labour worth? Free markets will take care of labour shortages automatically. Why should anyone have to die?

"You are a bigot/ racist."
How is advocating for the safety of citizens bigoted? That immigrants have killed citizens is a fact. What reason for them being here that is worth the death of those citizens?

"Many of the terrorists were citizens."
Children of immigrants naturalized in country, or radicalized by militants who were not supposed to have been in the country in the first place.

How is this not clear to a thinking person?

You bring in immigrants
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants......

What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.
Wizofoz
Posts: 3,374
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8/1/2018 11:28:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:
Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in? Why?

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life? What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry? And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

They will say, "Immigrants aren't terrorists!"
No one said they were. But we can't distinguish which are terrorists and which are not. Is the risk not too great then?

"Immigrants are less criminal than citizens."
So what? The citizen belongs, and already is, here. What reason justifies importing even more crime?

"Humanitarian reasons."
How humanitarian was it for the 80 people run over by a truck in France? How can you help foreigners at the expense of the lives of citizens?

"The society needs the cheap labour."
How many dead innocents is that labour worth? Free markets will take care of labour shortages automatically. Why should anyone have to die?

"You are a bigot/ racist."
How is advocating for the safety of citizens bigoted? That immigrants have killed citizens is a fact. What reason for them being here that is worth the death of those citizens?

"Many of the terrorists were citizens."
Children of immigrants naturalized in country, or radicalized by militants who were not supposed to have been in the country in the first place.

How is this not clear to a thinking person?

You bring in immigrants
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants......

What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.

Western nations have rapidly aging populations- fewer and fewer people of working age and more and more retirees.

Which Mayor said we have t accept terrorism? Khan? No he didn't.
Terran_01
Posts: 681
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8/1/2018 11:38:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
What are you missing? The implied and painfully obvious truth that everyone knows but no-one dares to say. It isn't an 'accident', it's deliberate. Everything we have been told is a lie. The truth rises from the ashes. I introduce the two longest and greatest stories that have and will change the world. But no-one will even watch them. All I can is offer them. They will change your life.

The greatest story never told:

The greatest story ever told:
Wizofoz
Posts: 3,374
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8/1/2018 12:02:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 11:38:44 AM, Terran_01 wrote:
What are you missing? The implied and painfully obvious truth that everyone knows but no-one dares to say. It isn't an 'accident', it's deliberate. Everything we have been told is a lie. The truth rises from the ashes. I introduce the two longest and greatest stories that have and will change the world. But no-one will even watch them. All I can is offer them. They will change your life.

The greatest story never told:

The greatest story ever told:

We need immigrants to dilute the number of people like you.
Polytheist_Witch
Posts: 4,423
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8/1/2018 12:16:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I have no issue with immigrants who go through proper channels. I have no problem with them getting services if they are legally here. I have great issue with illegals for all kinds of reasons but the main one being they are put in a disadvantage in may ways that are dangerous. One they are at the mercy or feel at the mercy of people getting them here and keeping them here. They are paid less, are afraid to report problems and crimes due to being illegal. They have no recourse if screwed on money. It's slave labor.

If they don't want to be citizens fine but at least register who is here and let them use the system properly. Not using fake ss numbers and no way to have any idea who is in the country.
Terran_01
Posts: 681
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8/1/2018 2:04:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So, according to you...

1. Genocide is OK if it's legal.
2. The perpetrators are perpetually the victims.
3. Victims must be compensated.
4. Compensation is genocide.
5. Back to step 1.
Terran_01
Posts: 681
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8/1/2018 2:07:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Remind me again how many rights, government services, government representation and welfare payments a White person should expect if they move into Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, China, Venezuela or Pakistan?
Wizofoz
Posts: 3,374
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8/1/2018 2:11:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 2:07:02 PM, Terran_01 wrote:
Remind me again how many rights, government services, government representation and welfare payments a White person should expect if they move into Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, China, Venezuela or Pakistan?

I lived in Dubai for ten years- I was entitled to many government services. Surely a man of prophecies actually knows what happens in other countries?
Ludofl3x
Posts: 2,283
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8/1/2018 2:22:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I didn't know immigration was such a problem in Ghana, and what's this have to do with religion? Let me help connect the religion part.

Is it not possible to use the thoughts and prayers that are working so well with gun violence to also keep immigrants out? Why do immigrants need a wall but guns only need appeals to god?
ethang5
Posts: 19,253
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8/1/2018 2:24:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 11:28:15 AM, Wizofoz wrote:
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:

Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in? Why?

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life? What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry? And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.

Western nations have rapidly aging populations- fewer and fewer people of working age and more and more retirees.

So the answer is to bring in backwards cro-magnons from cultures that think women and camels are private property? At the expense of citizens being mowed down in the streets? Really?

Japan has had virtually zero immigration, has their society collapsed?

Which Mayor said we have to accept terrorism? Khan? No he didn't.

https://www.independent.co.uk...
Sadiq Khan: London mayor says being prepared for terror attacks 'part and parcel' of living in a major city.

London crime WARNING: Sadiq Khan says "BORED KIDS" on holiday may cause huge SPIKE in crime.

Boris Johnson: Sadiq Khan "blames everyone but himself" for London"s knife crime

Referring to the headlines that the murder rate in London was higher than in New York earlier this year, Mr Johnson said it was a "scandal".

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk...

London murders: a list of the victims killed in the capital so far in 2018

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk...
Wizofoz
Posts: 3,374
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8/1/2018 2:32:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 2:24:20 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 8/1/2018 11:28:15 AM, Wizofoz wrote:
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:

Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in? Why?

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life? What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry? And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.

Western nations have rapidly aging populations- fewer and fewer people of working age and more and more retirees.

So the answer is to bring in backwards cro-magnons from cultures that think women and camels are private property? At the expense of citizens being mowed down in the streets? Really?

The answer is immigration, and that means from places that people are willing to migrate f]FROM- so it has to be for a better life.

By all means have sensible criteria for vetting immigrants and getting people good for your country.


Japan has had virtually zero immigration, has their society collapsed?

Japan is steadily increasing it's immigration for the precise reason it is becoming harder to fund it's aging population- they haven't collapsed, but they USED to be the number two economy in the world.

Which Mayor said we have to accept terrorism? Khan? No he didn't.

https://www.independent.co.uk...
Sadiq Khan: London mayor says being prepared for terror attacks 'part and parcel' of living in a major city.

TOTAL mis-representation of what he said.

London crime WARNING: Sadiq Khan says "BORED KIDS" on holiday may cause huge SPIKE in crime.

Boris Johnson: Sadiq Khan "blames everyone but himself" for London"s knife crime

Referring to the headlines that the murder rate in London was higher than in New York earlier this year, Mr Johnson said it was a "scandal".

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk...

London murders: a list of the victims killed in the capital so far in 2018

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk...

Ermmm. why the huge amount of stuff about knife crime that has zero to do with immigration? Does Chicago's murder rate have anything to do with immigrants?
Polytheist_Witch
Posts: 4,423
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8/1/2018 2:42:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 2:04:38 PM, Terran_01 wrote:
So, according to you...

1. Genocide is OK if it's legal.
2. The perpetrators are perpetually the victims.
3. Victims must be compensated.
4. Compensation is genocide.
5. Back to step 1.

WTF does genocide have to do with immigration you fu@king tard.
ethang5
Posts: 19,253
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8/1/2018 2:43:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 2:22:47 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:

Here we go with the stupid assumptions.

I didn't know immigration was such a problem in Ghana,.....

Neither did I. I did not mention a country in my OP.

...and what's this have to do with religion?

Religion touches on everything.

Let me help connect the religion part.

I need no help from you. You now, instead of addressing the perfectly legitimate question I've asked, will now roll out the same tired, lame insinuation that my question is bigotry/racism.

Is it not possible to use the thoughts and prayers that are working so well with gun violence to also keep immigrants out? Why do immigrants need a wall but guns only need appeals to god?

I don't know, and I think your question is stupid. I am asking why, in light of the known disadvantages, so many act as if immigration is still necessary, not advocating for its abolition. A sensible reply would have been, "Though we run the risk of terrorism, immigration is still an overall good because....."

But like an idiot, you assume my position for me, then assume it is religion based, (though none of my issues with it was religious), and make an inane point not related to the OP.

Can you answer without the liberal outrage? As non-emotionally as possible? And then if I do say something bigoted or racist, sure, respond to that. Can you be sensible?

I asked for an explanation. You explained nothing.
Harikrish
Posts: 30,713
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8/1/2018 2:47:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:
Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in? Why?

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life? What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry? And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

They will say, "Immigrants aren't terrorists!"
No one said they were. But we can't distinguish which are terrorists and which are not. Is the risk not too great then?

"Immigrants are less criminal than citizens."
So what? The citizen belongs, and already is, here. What reason justifies importing even more crime?

"Humanitarian reasons."
How humanitarian was it for the 80 people run over by a truck in France? How can you help foreigners at the expense of the lives of citizens?

"The society needs the cheap labour."
How many dead innocents is that labour worth? Free markets will take care of labour shortages automatically. Why should anyone have to die?

"You are a bigot/ racist."
How is advocating for the safety of citizens bigoted? That immigrants have killed citizens is a fact. What reason for them being here that is worth the death of those citizens?

"Many of the terrorists were citizens."
Children of immigrants naturalized in country, or radicalized by militants who were not supposed to have been in the country in the first place.

How is this not clear to a thinking person?

You bring in immigrants
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants......

What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.

There was a time when a shortage of workers could be filled by bringing in African slaves. But low skilled work are being replaced by machines and the demand for low skilled workers have greatly diminished.

Modernization and technology has created a big demand for highly educated and skilled workers and an immigration policy put in place to recruit these workers from other countries where they are found such as India.

Here are some reasons why immigrants are necessary.
There are 3.22 Millions of INDIANs in USA (1.5 % of population).
YET, 38% of doctors in USA are INDIANs.
12% scientists in USA are INDIANs.
36% of NASA scientists are INDIANs.
34% of Microsoft employees are INDIANs.
28% of IBM employees are INDIANs.
17% of INTEL scientists are INDIANs.
13% of XEROX employees are INDIANs
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

Not all immigrants produce the results posted above.
According to Trump Muslim countries produce terrorists and therefore he imposed a travel ban on Muslims.

Trump also commented that all African countries are shithole countries so instead of letting in African shitholes he preferred immigrants from Norway instead.

Trump backed his support for Indian migrants with this.
Trump praises India...wants Indians to live in America
https://youtu.be...
ethang5
Posts: 19,253
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8/1/2018 3:22:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 2:32:39 PM, Wizofoz wrote:
At 8/1/2018 2:24:20 PM, ethang5 wrote:

Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in? Why?

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life? What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry? And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.

Western nations have rapidly aging populations- fewer and fewer people of working age and more and more retirees.

So the answer is to bring in backwards cro-magnons from cultures that think women and camels are private property? At the expense of citizens being mowed down in the streets? Really?

The answer is immigration, and that means from places that people are willing to migratenotOM- so it has to be for a better life.

I have 2 responses to that.
First, Is it worth the cost? Is the world a better place with all those innocents murdered but immigrants let in? Or would it have been better with all those innocents alive and immigration denied? Honestly? Are you willing to be one of the deaths to pay for immigration?

Second, are you telling me that the only people who want to immigrate are those from diseased cultures? I travel all over the world, and every country I go to, the US embassy is flooded with people wanting to immigrate.

By all means have sensible criteria for vetting immigrants and getting people good for your country.

Even if immigration is the answer, why is it so urgent to liberals? Why did they object when Trump wanted to pause to have sensible criteria for vetting immigrants and getting people good into country? You aren't actually answering my question.

Japan has had virtually zero immigration, has their society collapsed?

Japan is steadily increasing it's immigration for the precise reason it is becoming harder to fund it's aging population-

Are they bringing in people from Afghanistan? Pakistan? Syria? Nigeria? Yemen? Iraq? How many terrorist incidents have occurred in Japan as compared to France?

....they haven't collapsed, but they USED to be the number two economy in the world.

This supports my point. Japan did not fall, China rose. A country's GDP will never increase by replacing professional native workers with backwards, basically uneducated cave men.

Which Mayor said we have to accept terrorism? Khan? No he didn't.

Yes he did.

https://www.independent.co.uk...
Sadiq Khan: London mayor says being prepared for terror attacks 'part and parcel' of living in a major city.

TOTAL mis-representation of what he said.

He said, "Terrorism attacks are part and parcel of life in major cities." How is this different or a misrepresentation?

London crime WARNING: Sadiq Khan says "BORED KIDS" on holiday may cause huge SPIKE in crime.

Boris Johnson: Sadiq Khan "blames everyone but himself" for London"s knife crime

Referring to the headlines that the murder rate in London was higher than in New York earlier this year, Mr Johnson said it was a "scandal".

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk...

London murders: a list of the victims killed in the capital so far in 2018

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk...

Ermmm. why the huge amount of stuff about knife crime that has zero to do with immigration?

Zero to do with immigration??? It is because of immigration! It was acid attacks until they made it more difficult to get acids. So now its knives. Who uses acid in attacks?

Does Chicago's murder rate have anything to do with immigrants?

Plenty. Speak to a police officer who has not been cowed by political correctness.

Sorry. I still do not see why the urgency, or understand why it is worth the cost - to liberals.
ethang5
Posts: 19,253
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8/1/2018 3:28:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 2:47:07 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:
Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in? Why?

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life? What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry? And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

They will say, "Immigrants aren't terrorists!"
No one said they were. But we can't distinguish which are terrorists and which are not. Is the risk not too great then?

"Immigrants are less criminal than citizens."
So what? The citizen belongs, and already is, here. What reason justifies importing even more crime?

"Humanitarian reasons."
How humanitarian was it for the 80 people run over by a truck in France? How can you help foreigners at the expense of the lives of citizens?

"The society needs the cheap labour."
How many dead innocents is that labour worth? Free markets will take care of labour shortages automatically. Why should anyone have to die?

"You are a bigot/ racist."
How is advocating for the safety of citizens bigoted? That immigrants have killed citizens is a fact. What reason for them being here that is worth the death of those citizens?

"Many of the terrorists were citizens."
Children of immigrants naturalized in country, or radicalized by militants who were not supposed to have been in the country in the first place.

How is this not clear to a thinking person?

You bring in immigrants
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants......

What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.

"We are not hindu. We do not recognize castes. A person's value is not measured by their caste or their skin color. The correct measure of a person, is the content of their character. And by that standard, you fail miserably. Your character is vile.

Just like India, we reject your slave caste system, we reject you and your filth, and we dismiss you."
Harikrish
Posts: 30,713
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8/1/2018 3:43:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 3:28:53 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 8/1/2018 2:47:07 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:
Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in? Why?

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life? What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry? And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

They will say, "Immigrants aren't terrorists!"
No one said they were. But we can't distinguish which are terrorists and which are not. Is the risk not too great then?

"Immigrants are less criminal than citizens."
So what? The citizen belongs, and already is, here. What reason justifies importing even more crime?

"Humanitarian reasons."
How humanitarian was it for the 80 people run over by a truck in France? How can you help foreigners at the expense of the lives of citizens?

"The society needs the cheap labour."
How many dead innocents is that labour worth? Free markets will take care of labour shortages automatically. Why should anyone have to die?

"You are a bigot/ racist."
How is advocating for the safety of citizens bigoted? That immigrants have killed citizens is a fact. What reason for them being here that is worth the death of those citizens?

"Many of the terrorists were citizens."
Children of immigrants naturalized in country, or radicalized by militants who were not supposed to have been in the country in the first place.

How is this not clear to a thinking person?

You bring in immigrants
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants......

What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.

"We are not hindu. We do not recognize castes. A person's value is not measured by their caste or their skin color. The correct measure of a person, is the content of their character. And by that standard, you fail miserably. Your character is vile.

Just like India, we reject your slave caste system, we reject you and your filth, and we dismiss you."

But India is so much ahead of your struggle for acceptance. Indian untouchables are becoming millionaires. Blacks are still pleading Black Lives Matter. But Trump disagrees, he calls all African countries shitholes.

There was a time when a shortage of workers could be filled by bringing in African slaves. But low skilled work are being replaced by machines and the demand for low skilled workers have greatly diminished.

Modernization and technology has created a big demand for highly educated and skilled workers and an immigration policy put in place to recruit these workers from other countries where they are found such as India.

Here are some reasons why immigrants are necessary.
There are 3.22 Millions of INDIANs in USA (1.5 % of population).
YET, 38% of doctors in USA are INDIANs.
12% scientists in USA are INDIANs.
36% of NASA scientists are INDIANs.
34% of Microsoft employees are INDIANs.
28% of IBM employees are INDIANs.
17% of INTEL scientists are INDIANs.
13% of XEROX employees are INDIANs
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

Not all immigrants produce the results posted above.
According to Trump Muslim countries produce terrorists and therefore he imposed a travel ban on Muslims.

Trump also commented that all African countries are shithole countries so instead of letting in African shitholes he preferred immigrants from Norway instead.

Trump backed his support for Indian migrants with this.
Trump praises India...wants Indians to live in America
https://youtu.be...
Harikrish
Posts: 30,713
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8/1/2018 4:12:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 3:49:23 PM, keithprosser wrote:
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:

I would rather ask 'Are countries necessary?'.

Without countries, Trump would have had a hard time pointing out to African shitholes on a map.

Inside the mind of Trump.
https://goo.gl...
21stCenturyIconoclast
Posts: 670
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8/1/2018 4:37:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:


What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.

__________________________________________________

ETHANG5 the pseudo-christian fool PROVES THAT HE IS NOT A CHRISTIAN IN ANY WAY OR FORM, by going directly against his mythical Jesus!

As seen ad infinitum on this forum, ETHANG5 is in the lead of being the most dumbfound and ignorant pseudo-christian, bar none!... In his attempt to question immigration, he slaps the mythical Jesus right in the face, AGAIN because of the following passages!

JESUS SAID: "Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed." (Proverbs 19:7)

JESUS SAID: "For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, "You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land." (Deuteronomy 15:11)

JESUS SAID: "And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." (Mark 10:21) On a comical side note, when was the last time you saw a pseudo-christian follow this passage where they are basically calling the mythical Jesus a LIAR if they don"t!

Hypocritical Christians like the ever so bible ignorant ETHANG5 talk about Jesus, pray to him, supplicate to him, and tell others to join their pagan faith, but their ungodly version of faith is far from the true teachings of the mythical Jesus the Christ, hence, they are blatant HYPOCRITES to Jesus" teachings!

.
ETHANG5 RUNS from his own thread"s topic!
http://www.debate.org...
POST #18

ETHANG5 continues to RUN from his bible's Virgin Birth!
Why was Jesus born of a virgin?
http://www.debate.org...
POST #31

ETHANG5 runs from what his god says regarding the topic at hand!
So I have a dilemma
http://www.debate.org...
POST #77

ETHANG5 removes one foot to insert the other, again, and then RUNS FROM HIS FAITH!
http://www.debate.org...
POST #19

ETHANG5 is still looking for his "Big Boy" pants, and RUNS AWAY AGAIN!
http://www.debate.org...
POST $7

ETHANG5 has to address me through others, whereas, he can"t address me personally because he is to SCARED to be made the fool again!
http://www.debate.org...
POST #4

WHEN DEALING WITH THE TRULY INEPT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN, IT'S LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARREL! LOL

_______________________________
Polytheist_Witch
Posts: 4,423
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8/1/2018 4:46:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 3:49:23 PM, keithprosser wrote:
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:

I would rather ask 'Are countries necessary?'.

Yes moron.
ethang5
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8/1/2018 4:59:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 3:49:23 PM, keithprosser wrote:
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:

I would rather ask 'Are countries necessary?'.

Necessary to whom?
ethang5
Posts: 19,253
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8/1/2018 5:02:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 4:12:02 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/1/2018 3:49:23 PM, keithprosser wrote:
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:

I would rather ask 'Are countries necessary?'.

Without countries, Trump would have had a hard time pointing out to African shitholes on a map.

And modi would have a hard time pointing out the country Indians are ashamed of being born in.

D'oh!
Outplayz
Posts: 3,398
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8/1/2018 5:17:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:
Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in? Why?

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life? What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry? And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

They will say, "Immigrants aren't terrorists!"
No one said they were. But we can't distinguish which are terrorists and which are not. Is the risk not too great then?

"Immigrants are less criminal than citizens."
So what? The citizen belongs, and already is, here. What reason justifies importing even more crime?

"Humanitarian reasons."
How humanitarian was it for the 80 people run over by a truck in France? How can you help foreigners at the expense of the lives of citizens?

"The society needs the cheap labour."
How many dead innocents is that labour worth? Free markets will take care of labour shortages automatically. Why should anyone have to die?

"You are a bigot/ racist."
How is advocating for the safety of citizens bigoted? That immigrants have killed citizens is a fact. What reason for them being here that is worth the death of those citizens?

"Many of the terrorists were citizens."
Children of immigrants naturalized in country, or radicalized by militants who were not supposed to have been in the country in the first place.

How is this not clear to a thinking person?

You bring in immigrants
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants......

What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.

The immigrant issue is one of those that i am ambivalent on, which truly shows my centrist ideals. It's good and bad.

It's good bc of the labor they bring with them, very hard work for little pay. That is a good no matter how you look at it. We don't have a problem such as Japan where the older are dying off but not being replaced by the young since birth rates are low. One i never hear talked about is the kids of the immigrants. Those kids born here became citizens and eventually, tax paying, contributing adults. Therefore, the 1st gen may be a detriment, but they are having kids that will eventually give back to the country...

The bad, well they do bring crime and terrorism. They bring their countries problems with them since their countries problems was in part their own making. They aren't top notch picks, so often are always in low skill and lower income type scenarios. Too many are coming in and the vast majority don't pay taxes. I think the number was they pay 17 billion dollars in taxes while spending 130 billion in government programs... making them a huge detriment to what citizens must pay. Housing prices drop where ever they concentrate in...

Overall, i don't know if the positives out weigh the negatives. The way i see it is that we should not tolerate illegal immigration, so i am 100% for enforcement in that regard. However, i also believe we should have an easier path to citizenship. If someone comes here and proves they are a positive to our community, that they work hard... they should become citizens. If they can't prove this, they get kicked out. With this kind of system it will be much easier to notice the good vs. the bad.
"For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity." --- Jean Dubuffet
ethang5
Posts: 19,253
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8/1/2018 5:29:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 5:17:25 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:
Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in? Why?

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life? What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry? And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

They will say, "Immigrants aren't terrorists!"
No one said they were. But we can't distinguish which are terrorists and which are not. Is the risk not too great then?

"Immigrants are less criminal than citizens."
So what? The citizen belongs, and already is, here. What reason justifies importing even more crime?

"Humanitarian reasons."
How humanitarian was it for the 80 people run over by a truck in France? How can you help foreigners at the expense of the lives of citizens?

"The society needs the cheap labour."
How many dead innocents is that labour worth? Free markets will take care of labour shortages automatically. Why should anyone have to die?

"You are a bigot/ racist."
How is advocating for the safety of citizens bigoted? That immigrants have killed citizens is a fact. What reason for them being here that is worth the death of those citizens?

"Many of the terrorists were citizens."
Children of immigrants naturalized in country, or radicalized by militants who were not supposed to have been in the country in the first place.

How is this not clear to a thinking person?

You bring in immigrants
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants......

What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.

The immigrant issue is one of those that i am ambivalent on, which truly shows my centrist ideals. It's good and bad.

It's good bc of the labor they bring with them, very hard work for little pay. That is a good no matter how you look at it. We don't have a problem such as Japan where the older are dying off but not being replaced by the young since birth rates are low. One i never hear talked about is the kids of the immigrants. Those kids born here became citizens and eventually, tax paying, contributing adults. Therefore, the 1st gen may be a detriment, but they are having kids that will eventually give back to the country...

The bad, well they do bring crime and terrorism. They bring their countries problems with them since their countries problems was in part their own making. They aren't top notch picks, so often are always in low skill and lower income type scenarios. Too many are coming in and the vast majority don't pay taxes. I think the number was they pay 17 billion dollars in taxes while spending 130 billion in government programs... making them a huge detriment to what citizens must pay. Housing prices drop where ever they concentrate in...

Overall, i don't know if the positives out weigh the negatives. The way i see it is that we should not tolerate illegal immigration, so i am 100% for enforcement in that regard. However, i also believe we should have an easier path to citizenship. If someone comes here and proves they are a positive to our community, that they work hard... they should become citizens. If they can't prove this, they get kicked out. With this kind of system it will be much easier to notice the good vs. the bad.

Very reasoned position. One I think is held by most Americans. But there are many that don't feel this way. They want everyone who wants to come, to be let in. They couldn't care less for how many citizens die.

Notice Keith's question, "why are countries necessary?" The inevitable end of loony political correctness.

I don't know the motives of liberals, but I cannot see any difference, based on their actions, between them and people who wish to destroy the country.
Outplayz
Posts: 3,398
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8/1/2018 5:41:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 5:29:54 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 8/1/2018 5:17:25 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:
Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in? Why?

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life? What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry? And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

They will say, "Immigrants aren't terrorists!"
No one said they were. But we can't distinguish which are terrorists and which are not. Is the risk not too great then?

"Immigrants are less criminal than citizens."
So what? The citizen belongs, and already is, here. What reason justifies importing even more crime?

"Humanitarian reasons."
How humanitarian was it for the 80 people run over by a truck in France? How can you help foreigners at the expense of the lives of citizens?

"The society needs the cheap labour."
How many dead innocents is that labour worth? Free markets will take care of labour shortages automatically. Why should anyone have to die?

"You are a bigot/ racist."
How is advocating for the safety of citizens bigoted? That immigrants have killed citizens is a fact. What reason for them being here that is worth the death of those citizens?

"Many of the terrorists were citizens."
Children of immigrants naturalized in country, or radicalized by militants who were not supposed to have been in the country in the first place.

How is this not clear to a thinking person?

You bring in immigrants
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants......

What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.

The immigrant issue is one of those that i am ambivalent on, which truly shows my centrist ideals. It's good and bad.

It's good bc of the labor they bring with them, very hard work for little pay. That is a good no matter how you look at it. We don't have a problem such as Japan where the older are dying off but not being replaced by the young since birth rates are low. One i never hear talked about is the kids of the immigrants. Those kids born here became citizens and eventually, tax paying, contributing adults. Therefore, the 1st gen may be a detriment, but they are having kids that will eventually give back to the country...

The bad, well they do bring crime and terrorism. They bring their countries problems with them since their countries problems was in part their own making. They aren't top notch picks, so often are always in low skill and lower income type scenarios. Too many are coming in and the vast majority don't pay taxes. I think the number was they pay 17 billion dollars in taxes while spending 130 billion in government programs... making them a huge detriment to what citizens must pay. Housing prices drop where ever they concentrate in...

Overall, i don't know if the positives out weigh the negatives. The way i see it is that we should not tolerate illegal immigration, so i am 100% for enforcement in that regard. However, i also believe we should have an easier path to citizenship. If someone comes here and proves they are a positive to our community, that they work hard... they should become citizens. If they can't prove this, they get kicked out. With this kind of system it will be much easier to notice the good vs. the bad.

Very reasoned position. One I think is held by most Americans. But there are many that don't feel this way. They want everyone who wants to come, to be let in. They couldn't care less for how many citizens die.

Notice Keith's question, "why are countries necessary?" The inevitable end of loony political correctness.

I don't know the motives of liberals, but I cannot see any difference, based on their actions, between them and people who wish to destroy the country.

I'm a centrist through and through, but if i had to pick either the right or the left's views on this issue i would pick the rights. Open borders, just let anyone in... is insanity. I often like the analogy of a person's house people make. If you are so loving and anyone can come in to your home... leave your doors open. But we know, no one would do that... bc "they want to know who is coming into their home."

The left is often very hypocritical in their views. I use to lean left, but ever since Trumps election, and during his campaign (which is why i voted for a 'right' president for the first time), the left turned me really off to their side. They are proving to be the side that is all emotion and no thoughts. On this issue and the most important to me, the gun issue, they are just abhorrent in their views.
"For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity." --- Jean Dubuffet
desmac
Posts: 7,394
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8/1/2018 5:48:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:
Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in? Why?

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life? What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry? And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

They will say, "Immigrants aren't terrorists!"
No one said they were. But we can't distinguish which are terrorists and which are not. Is the risk not too great then?

"Immigrants are less criminal than citizens."
So what? The citizen belongs, and already is, here. What reason justifies importing even more crime?

"Humanitarian reasons."
How humanitarian was it for the 80 people run over by a truck in France? How can you help foreigners at the expense of the lives of citizens?

"The society needs the cheap labour."
How many dead innocents is that labour worth? Free markets will take care of labour shortages automatically. Why should anyone have to die?

"You are a bigot/ racist."
How is advocating for the safety of citizens bigoted? That immigrants have killed citizens is a fact. What reason for them being here that is worth the death of those citizens?

"Many of the terrorists were citizens."
Children of immigrants naturalized in country, or radicalized by militants who were not supposed to have been in the country in the first place.

How is this not clear to a thinking person?

You bring in immigrants
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants......

What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.

Does Ghana have a big immigration problem?
Di mortuis
FaustianJustice
Posts: 9,590
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8/1/2018 5:53:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:
Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

Labor replacement, though some countries are more urgent than others. In the US, food production in general from various agri-industrial companies employ a heaping helping of migrants.


If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in?

I would think we still vet people.

Why?

The US operates around a principle that you are innocent until proven guilty. Denying admittance on those grounds assumes everyone is a terrorist, which runs contrary to that.

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life?

Only vary rarely does it intersect, so I fail to see why it would need to be leveraged for all cases. One bad immigrant shouldn't spoil the bunch just like one bad gun owner shouldn't spoil the bunch.

What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry?

"Bring me your poor, your tired your huddled...." I don't think the American dream of starting from scratch, pulling yourself up and making something of yourself is a dream ONLY for American citizens. I want anyone whom can positively effect the US to be here, regardless of where they are born.

And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I just want to make sure you are indeed wanting to judge a large group of people by the actions of an incredibly small minority. Is that the risk vs benefit analysis you are going with?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

You are listening to a liberal talk now. No, not all immigrants MUST be let in, but if we are going to deny ALL immigrants, the actions of a FEW immigrants shouldn't be the reason.

They will say, "Immigrants aren't terrorists!"

General truism.

No one said they were. But we can't distinguish which are terrorists and which are not. Is the risk not too great then?

No.


"Immigrants are less criminal than citizens."
So what? The citizen belongs, and already is, here. What reason justifies importing even more crime?

A working labor pool. Where I live, I see an interesting dynamic of whom is begging for change at the street corner vs whom is outside HomeDepot or at Labor Ready.

"Humanitarian reasons."
How humanitarian was it for the 80 people run over by a truck in France? How can you help foreigners at the expense of the lives of citizens?

I just want to point out, again, it appears as though you are leveraging a large amount of immigrants against a small population. Are you sure this is how you would like to craft policy?

"The society needs the cheap labour."
How many dead innocents is that labour worth?

A lot. Like, a LOT A LOT A LOT. Cheap labor means cheap products (specifically food) which means lower classes can afford it more readily.

Free markets will take care of labour shortages automatically.

Food riots to follow.

Why should anyone have to die?

-have- to is the operative. You are placing a mandatory after a conditional.


"Many of the terrorists were citizens."
Children of immigrants naturalized in country...

Still citizens.

or radicalized by militants who were not supposed to have been in the country in the first place.

I am not familiar with this example occurring in the US.

How is this not clear to a thinking person?

Because thinking people don't let minority conditionals over ride majority preventables.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
ethang5
Posts: 19,253
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8/1/2018 5:58:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 5:41:11 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 8/1/2018 5:29:54 PM, ethang5 wrote:

A very reasoned position. One I think is held by most Americans. But there are many that don't feel this way. They want everyone who wants to come, to be let in. They couldn't care less for how many citizens die.

Notice Keith's question, "why are countries necessary?" The inevitable end of loony political correctness.

I don't know the motives of liberals, but I cannot see any difference, based on their actions, between them and people who wish to destroy the country.

I'm a centrist through and through, but if i had to pick either the right or the left's views on this issue i would pick the rights. Open borders, just let anyone in... is insanity. I often like the analogy of a person's house people make. If you are so loving and anyone can come in to your home... leave your doors open. But we know, no one would do that... bc "they want to know who is coming into their home."

The left is often very hypocritical in their views. I use to lean left, but ever since Trumps election, and during his campaign (which is why i voted for a 'right' president for the first time), the left turned me really off to their side. They are proving to be the side that is all emotion and no thoughts. On this issue and the most important to me, the gun issue, they are just abhorrent in their views.

You have grown. I see no problem with the centrist position. Sure we want to help immigrants, but we have to do so in a sensible way.

Just like this thread, no one can answer me. What is the rush? Why are citizen deaths worth it? Why do they keep importing dangerous people into the country? Why is it that no one can answer these questions?

Hat tip to wiz. He tried.
21stCenturyIconoclast
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8/1/2018 6:02:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2018 5:41:11 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 8/1/2018 5:29:54 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 8/1/2018 5:17:25 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 8/1/2018 11:06:15 AM, ethang5 wrote:
Someone please explain to me.

What is the urgency? What is the necessity?

If we know that there are terrorists mixed in with immigrants, and we cannot tell whether a person is a terrorist or an immigrant, why do we have to let any of them in? Why?

Is their "right" to come in equal a citizens right to life? What terrible wrong would have been committed if they had been denied entry? And would that wrong have outweighed the wrong of innocents being gunned down in the streets?

I listen to liberals talk and they seem to take it for granted that immigrants MUST be let into the country. Why? I don't understand the thinking.

They will say, "Immigrants aren't terrorists!"
No one said they were. But we can't distinguish which are terrorists and which are not. Is the risk not too great then?

"Immigrants are less criminal than citizens."
So what? The citizen belongs, and already is, here. What reason justifies importing even more crime?

"Humanitarian reasons."
How humanitarian was it for the 80 people run over by a truck in France? How can you help foreigners at the expense of the lives of citizens?

"The society needs the cheap labour."
How many dead innocents is that labour worth? Free markets will take care of labour shortages automatically. Why should anyone have to die?

"You are a bigot/ racist."
How is advocating for the safety of citizens bigoted? That immigrants have killed citizens is a fact. What reason for them being here that is worth the death of those citizens?

"Many of the terrorists were citizens."
Children of immigrants naturalized in country, or radicalized by militants who were not supposed to have been in the country in the first place.

How is this not clear to a thinking person?

You bring in immigrants
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants.
Some of those immigrants kill citizens
They declare a day of mourning
Kids leave candles and stuffed toys at the attack site.
Officials say "we will not be intimidated!"
There is a candlelight vigil where everyone sings and cries.
The mayor says we have to accept terrorism as a way of life.
The officials import more immigrants......

What am I missing?

Please, someone, explain it to me.

The immigrant issue is one of those that i am ambivalent on, which truly shows my centrist ideals. It's good and bad.

It's good bc of the labor they bring with them, very hard work for little pay. That is a good no matter how you look at it. We don't have a problem such as Japan where the older are dying off but not being replaced by the young since birth rates are low. One i never hear talked about is the kids of the immigrants. Those kids born here became citizens and eventually, tax paying, contributing adults. Therefore, the 1st gen may be a detriment, but they are having kids that will eventually give back to the country...

The bad, well they do bring crime and terrorism. They bring their countries problems with them since their countries problems was in part their own making. They aren't top notch picks, so often are always in low skill and lower income type scenarios. Too many are coming in and the vast majority don't pay taxes. I think the number was they pay 17 billion dollars in taxes while spending 130 billion in government programs... making them a huge detriment to what citizens must pay. Housing prices drop where ever they concentrate in...

Overall, i don't know if the positives out weigh the negatives. The way i see it is that we should not tolerate illegal immigration, so i am 100% for enforcement in that regard. However, i also believe we should have an easier path to citizenship. If someone comes here and proves they are a positive to our community, that they work hard... they should become citizens. If they can't prove this, they get kicked out. With this kind of system it will be much easier to notice the good vs. the bad.

Very reasoned position. One I think is held by most Americans. But there are many that don't feel this way. They want everyone who wants to come, to be let in. They couldn't care less for how many citizens die.

Notice Keith's question, "why are countries necessary?" The inevitable end of loony political correctness.

I don't know the motives of liberals, but I cannot see any difference, based on their actions, between them and people who wish to destroy the country.

I'm a centrist through and through, but if i had to pick either the right or the left's views on this issue i would pick the rights. Open borders, just let anyone in... is insanity. I often like the analogy of a person's house people make. If you are so loving and anyone can come in to your home... leave your doors open. But we know, no one would do that... bc "they want to know who is coming into their home."

The left is often very hypocritical in their views. I use to lean left, but ever since Trumps election, and during his campaign (which is why i voted for a 'right' president for the first time), the left turned me really off to their side. They are proving to be the side that is all emotion and no thoughts. On this issue and the most important to me, the gun issue, they are just abhorrent in their views.

____________________________________

Outplayz,

So, as not to be the BLATANT HYPOCRITE yourself, as you assume the "left" is at this time, are you willing to gather a group together to have the Statue of Liberty in New York removed post haste? YES?

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. To spread the light of liberty world-wide for every land."

Don't tell us, the borders should have been removed right after your family got in, correct? Does your comical and pagan Zoroastrianism beliefs have anything to do with your immigration decision making?

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