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Let's Be Honest

Willows
Posts: 11,608
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9/19/2018 12:58:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If I told you that I am a liar and then did so, I would be telling the truth.
Similarly, If I told the truth, I would then be lying.

Everybody lies from time to time in certain degrees but what about when it comes to the religious and the non-religious, Who is more prone to lying?

For example, One could reasonably claim that religious people lie more since they are committed to defending a belief that is founded on a false premise in the first place (i. E. There being a God).

On the other side of the equation, One could claim that atheists lie more in order not to offend theists in a conversation.

So who lies the most, The theist or the atheist?
And who tells the biggest lies?
Willows
Posts: 11,608
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9/19/2018 12:59:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Attention to all those trolls who wish to gratuitously reply to any thread.

You must first delete all the contents in the box before posting your reply otherwise it won't display and it will give me no opportunity to knock the crap out of whatever rubbish you are going to submit.
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,431
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9/19/2018 12:21:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Everyone lies - except God.

Everyone tells the truth most of the time.

I take the view that people are generally honest most of the time.

People lie for all sorts of reasons.

I think the term religious in your question is unfortunate. There are numerous religions and some actually permit / encourage lying in certain situations. And some cultures - secular ones encourage lying and deception and give it a certain regard.

I think most religious people are not lying about their belief in God or in their efforts to defend him. Yet, Sometimes, Out of sheer frustration and or because they have bad doctrines - they lie in order to attempt to prove God does something. I also think that there can be a tendency to exaggerate the truth as well.

On the other hand non- theists do tells lies - but never to not offend theists but to bolster their own beliefs. The next non-theist who presents as not wanting to offend will be the first one. (Now is that an exaggeration? )

I think Christians are encouraged not to tell lies. Christians are informed that lying is of the devil. Hence, Liars go to Hell or will not be part of the kingdom of heaven.

But then the question of what is a liar becomes important. Is someone who tells lies a liar? Does it matter how many times they tell a lie? Or is it something to do with their character? Can someone be called a liar if they have only told one or two lies in their life?

My view is that telling lies does not make a person a liar. It is a person who characteristically tells lies who is a liar. A person who normally tends to tell the truth but on the odd occasion tells a lie is not a liar. Yet on those occasions he is telling lies. There may well have been a reason for this deception which is uncharacteristic.

Also am I a liar or telling lies if my wife comes in her new dress and asks me how it looks. If I don't like it but say "darling it looks nice". Is that a lie? Or am I weighing up two different tensions - and making a choice of wisdom. Is it better to tell the truth and hurt her feelings - or is it better to allow her to feel good about her new dress and not be perfectly honest about my own feelings?

Was Rahab in the OT telling lies when she sent the soldiers in the opposite direction to the spies?

What is a lie? Is it simply not being honest with reality? If so, Then all atheists by virtue of their denials of God are liars or deluded.
Willows
Posts: 11,608
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9/19/2018 12:35:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"What is a lie? Is it simply not being honest with reality? If so, Then all atheists by virtue of their denials of God are liars or deluded. "

Reality suggests there is no God, So I would discount that concept.

You are right though. . . . Lying is a characteristic of anyone who wishes to maintain a position, Especially a position that is untenable or has high stakes.
Archaholic
Posts: 1,875
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9/19/2018 11:24:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm not sure who lie the most. What we know very well, Though, Is who opens the most pointless, Reckless and stupid threads in this forum, So pointless that most of the time these treads barely reach 5 posts.
Willows
Posts: 11,608
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9/20/2018 7:50:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm not sure who lie the most. What we know very well, Though, Is who opens the most pointless, Reckless and stupid threads in this forum, So pointless that most of the time these treads barely reach 5 posts.


It's a bit unkind to make such a gratuitous attack on Harikari don't you think?

So far as my threads go through, I think most educated people look through the hilarity of the satire and appreciate the substance for what it is and accordingly make valued, Informed comments.
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,431
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9/21/2018 9:22:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
"What is a lie? Is it simply not being honest with reality? If so, Then all atheists by virtue of their denials of God are liars or deluded. "

Reality suggests there is no God, So I would discount that concept.

You are right though. . . . Lying is a characteristic of anyone who wishes to maintain a position, Especially a position that is untenable or has high stakes.

Reality is not a person to suggest anything. Facts can lead to certain suggestions. For instance the fact that things exist points to a divine being. Without a divine being there would be nothing. For as someone pointed out recently, It is impossible for nothing to do anything except remain nothing. Nothing cannot explode. Nothing cannot evolve. Nothing cannot formulate laws or principles. Nothing is simply nothing and nothing more. Hence, That anything exists points to a divine being.
Willows
Posts: 11,608
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9/21/2018 11:13:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Reality is not a person to suggest anything. Facts can lead to certain suggestions. For instance the fact that things exist points to a divine being. Without a divine being there would be nothing. For as someone pointed out recently, It is impossible for nothing to do anything except remain nothing. Nothing cannot explode. Nothing cannot evolve. Nothing cannot formulate laws or principles. Nothing is simply nothing and nothing more. Hence, That anything exists points to a divine being.

I think You are being very assumptive and speculative.

The fact that things exist does not in any way point to a divine being.
I think you are making the mistake of "things exist, Therefore. . . . . . . . . God".

In other words, You are jumping over every other theory as to existence, In favor of one for no logical reason at all.

The fact is that nobody yet knows the origins of the existence of matter.

If one were to be objective, The theory of God can pretty well be written off the list of possibilities anyhow.
Science has irrefutably proven that there is no evidence whatsoever of anything having been created, Especially life.

Creationists commonly cite the misconception that because life is so complex, It must have been created.
The premise is nonsensical and self-defeating since, By its own terms, A creator would need to be even more complex in order to have created life. Therefore, The creator must have been created and so you would pursue an infinite path of absurdity.
Harikrish
Posts: 28,482
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9/25/2018 2:09:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret, Why don't you get help so you can post? You are not bright enough to figure out the new security measures that is preventing you from posting.

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