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Radical Religion

Willows
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10/1/2018 11:28:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
We often hear about radical religious groups. . . . . Cults who isolate themselves from the rest of society and practice a type of religion that is harsher than the more common mainstream organisations.

But, Wait a minute. . . . . Isn't all religion radical?

After all, We have already established that anybody who believes in God is deluded.

Also, Almost all religions prescribe anti-social behavior such as discrimination against minority groups.

There may be groups in society that are anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia but religious groups do so for no other reason than "it is written" or, "it is the will of God'.

So, Surely, Should such oddball behavior from even mainstream religious groups be considered as radical?
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,426
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10/1/2018 11:51:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
What do you mean by the notion that all people who believe in God are deluded? How have you come to that conclusion?
Harikrish
Posts: 28,417
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10/1/2018 1:46:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
What do you mean by the notion that all people who believe in God are deluded? How have you come to that conclusion?

I think Willows read your responses and those of other theists and came to his conclusion. He wasn't following any inspired Jewish bible or revisions of it.

Christians following Jesus a deluded Jewish rabbi are no less deluded than Jesus who was crucified for his deluded beliefs.
Willows
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10/3/2018 10:25:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
What do you mean by the notion that all people who believe in God are deluded? How have you come to that conclusion?

The fact is:
Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, Typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

The fact is:
religion is an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument.

Therefore:
religious people are deluded, Typically as a symptom of mental disorder.
Tradesecret
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10/3/2018 1:03:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The fact is:
Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, Typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

That may or may not be a fact. It certainly is one definition. But is it a fact? Please don't make assertions without providing explanations and reasons.

The fact is:
religion is an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument.

That is not a fact. It is an opinion by yourself. The ironic thing is however that because you think it is a fact probably proves or at least provides a starting point that you are suffering from delusions.

for you opinion to be a fact, You actually need to prove it, Not just make assertion.
Therefore:
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,426
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10/3/2018 1:08:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think Willows read your responses and those of other theists and came to his conclusion. He wasn't following any inspired Jewish bible or revisions of it.

Christians following Jesus a deluded Jewish rabbi are no less deluded than Jesus who was crucified for his deluded beliefs.

Like willows, You are asserting opinions without providing any facts or reasons to back it up. It is unreasonable to think Jesus was deluded just because some of his family thought he was mad at some time in his ministry. The fact that both his mother and his brother James, Both at his death and then after his resurrection believed in him and trusted him, Indeed even becoming part of his church as a leader provides evidence that their initial response was incorrect. Christians follow Jesus because it is the most logical and reasonable thing to do when someone chooses to die on your behalf despite your not deserving it, And then reconciles you to his father, Who you had rejected out of foolishness, And then makes it possible for you to be adopted into his family and to receive the family name.

It would be foolish and irrational not to trust Jesus at this point.
Willows
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10/5/2018 9:19:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
The fact is:
Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, Typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

That may or may not be a fact. It certainly is one definition. But is it a fact? Please don't make assertions without providing explanations and reasons.

The fact is:
religion is an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument.

That is not a fact. It is an opinion by yourself. The ironic thing is however that because you think it is a fact probably proves or at least provides a starting point that you are suffering from delusions.

for you opinion to be a fact, You actually need to prove it, Not just make assertion.

I have already backed up the facts with sound reasoning.

You would have to have lived on another planet for years not to realise that those who actually believe there is a God are deluded.

Where is your evidence that religious believers are not deluded?
Harikrish
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10/6/2018 4:02:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
I think Willows read your responses and those of other theists and came to his conclusion. He wasn't following any inspired Jewish bible or revisions of it.

Christians following Jesus a deluded Jewish rabbi are no less deluded than Jesus who was crucified for his deluded beliefs.


Like willows, You are asserting opinions without providing any facts or reasons to back it up. It is unreasonable to think Jesus was deluded just because some of his family thought he was mad at some time in his ministry. The fact that both his mother and his brother James, Both at his death and then after his resurrection believed in him and trusted him, Indeed even becoming part of his church as a leader provides evidence that their initial response was incorrect. Christians follow Jesus because it is the most logical and reasonable thing to do when someone chooses to die on your behalf despite your not deserving it, And then reconciles you to his father, Who you had rejected out of foolishness, And then makes it possible for you to be adopted into his family and to receive the family name.

Read you bible you scripturally ignorant mutt. Jesus was sent to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, But a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

""a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"
It would be foolish and irrational not to trust Jesus at this point.

Jesus was mostly incoherent and only spoke in parables that no one understood.
Matthew 13:34 Jesus spoke all these things to the crowds in parables. He did not tell them anything without using a parable.

He said a time would come when he would no longer be incoherent. But he was crucified shortly after.

John 16:25 I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. A time is coming when I will no longer speak to you this way, But will tell you plainly about the Father.
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,426
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10/6/2018 11:55:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Read you bible you scripturally ignorant mutt. Jesus was sent to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, But a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

""a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"
It would be foolish and irrational not to trust Jesus at this point.

Jesus primary point was that humanity should turn to him because the relationship of the creation to the creator is the primary relationship of all. Any other relationship, Whether it be to family or animal or friend or political or religious is a waste of time without this fundamental relationship being in the right place.

Hence, When people put their family before God, Then they set up their families as idols. When they place their mother or father or friend or work or money or whatever before God, They are being unfaithful to God. Jesus views would thence divide families where some members prefer family to God. But to all families that prefer God to family, They would remain strong and become deeper in their relationships. That you would purport that Jesus is trying to break up families is utter garbage and demonstration that you are not spiritual.
Jesus was mostly incoherent and only spoke in parables that no one understood.
Matthew 13:34 Jesus spoke all these things to the crowds in parables. He did not tell them anything without using a parable.

Jesus spoke in parables from time to time - but not always. These parables only remained unknowable or confusing to those who were not God's children. And when the disciples did not understand, They asked Jesus who explained it to them. The parables were like spiritual hand grenades - meant to divide the true sheep from the goats.

He said a time would come when he would no longer be incoherent. But he was crucified shortly after.

John 16:25 I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. A time is coming when I will no longer speak to you this way, But will tell you plainly about the Father.

Yes, By the Holy Spirit and now through the Scriptures.
Harikrish
Posts: 28,417
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10/7/2018 4:19:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Read you bible you scripturally ignorant mutt. Jesus was sent to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, But a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

""a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"
It would be foolish and irrational not to trust Jesus at this point.

Jesus primary point was that humanity should turn to him because the relationship of the creation to the creator is the primary relationship of all. Any other relationship, Whether it be to family or animal or friend or political or religious is a waste of time without this fundamental relationship being in the right place.

Read your bible you scripturally ignorant mutt. Honouring your father and mother was one of the 10 commandments directly from God.
Deuteronomy 5:16 "Honor your father and your mother, As the Lord your God has commanded you, So that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

Jesus too was bound by the law. But he got ahead of his skis.
Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, But to fulfill them.

Hence, When people put their family before God, Then they set up their families as idols. When they place their mother or father or friend or work or money or whatever before God, They are being unfaithful to God. Jesus views would thence divide families where some members prefer family to God. But to all families that prefer God to family, They would remain strong and become deeper in their relationships. That you would purport that Jesus is trying to break up families is utter garbage and demonstration that you are not spiritual.
Jesus not only tried to break up the traditional family. He wanted people to value friends more than family.
John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, That he lay down his life for his friends.

Jesus was mostly incoherent and only spoke in parables that no one understood.
Matthew 13:34 Jesus spoke all these things to the crowds in parables. He did not tell them anything without using a parable.

Jesus spoke in parables from time to time - but not always. These parables only remained unknowable or confusing to those who were not God's children. And when the disciples did not understand, They asked Jesus who explained it to them. The parables were like spiritual hand grenades - meant to divide the true sheep from the goats.

Read your bible you scripturally ignorant mutt. Even his disciples did not understand Jesus.
Luke 18:34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, And they did not comprehend what He was saying.

He said a time would come when he would no longer be incoherent. But he was crucified shortly after.

John 16:25 I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. A time is coming when I will no longer speak to you this way, But will tell you plainly about the Father.


Yes, By the Holy Spirit and now through the Scriptures.
Guided by the Holy Spirit the first church which is the Roman Catholic Church was built. Today we have 30, 000 denominations of Christians. Most of them are in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church which was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The 10 commandments say.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, To keep it holy.
5. Honour your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

Jesus broke many of the commandments, If not all!

1. He tried to claim he was God.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "

2. He made a covenant with a cup.
Luke 22:20 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, Which is poured out for you.

3. Jesus said every word he spoke came from God. Unless God too was as incoherent as Jesus. God in the OT never spoke in parables. His orders were clear and direct.
Luke 18:34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, And they did not comprehend what He was saying.

4. Jesus broke the sabbath.
Pharisees accused Him of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:10; Mark 3:2, John 9:14-16).

5. He tried to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, A daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"

6. Jesus murdered the truth.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "
Yet he spent his entire ministry condemning the very people he was sent to save.

7. Jesus was unfaithful to God and his disciples. He left them to die even though he was given all authority over heaven and earth.
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

8. Jesus stole the words of the prophets before him and claimed they pointed to him.
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.
Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, Explaining from all the Scriptures. . . And Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures, Beginning with the books of Moses and the writings of all the prophets".

9. Jesus accused God of betraying and forsaking him on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " which means, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "

10. Jesus suffered from a messiah complex and coveted the title messiah/Christ/Anointed one.
John 17:1 After Jesus said this, He looked toward heaven and prayed:
"Father, The hour has come. Glorify your Son, That your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, The only true God, And Jesus Christ, Whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, Glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

It would be foolish and irrational not to trust Jesus at this point.

Scriptures tell us Jesus was tried, Convicted and crucified fir his blasphemous lies and lunacy. . . . By the Romans.

Christians have waited for 2000 years for Jesus's return as he had promised.
Preterists claims Christisns got it wrong, That Jesus returned in 70 AD.
Jehovah's Witnesses claim Jesus returned in 1874 or maybe 1914.
Others say Jesus could be the next thief who robbed your house.
Revelation 16:15, Matthew 24:43, 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 1 Thessalonians 5:4, 2 Peter 3:10 ESV - ("Behold, I am coming like a thief in the night! )
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,426
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10/8/2018 6:40:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Haribottom wrote:
"Honouring your father and mother was one of the 10 commandments directly from God.
Deuteronomy 5:16 "Honor your father and your mother, As the Lord your God has commanded you, So that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the Lord your God is giving you. "

the first commandment of course is to love the lord your God only and worship him only above all things. Jesus' first priority was to this - o ignorant and dumb one. His family were wanting him to break this command - and it sounds like you think the 5th commandment is more important than the first one.

Jesus too was bound by the law. But he got ahead of his skis.
Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, But to fulfill them.

I don't think you can demonstrate he ever disobeyed the law.

Jesus spoke in parables from time to time - but not always. These parables only remained unknowable or confusing to those who were not God's children. And when the disciples did not understand, They asked Jesus who explained it to them. The parables were like spiritual hand grenades - meant to divide the true sheep from the goats.

Even his disciples did not understand Jesus.
Luke 18:34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, And they did not comprehend what He was saying.

I just said that - please take time to read what I wrote.
He said a time would come when he would no longer be incoherent. But he was crucified shortly after.

John 16:25 I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. A time is coming when I will no longer speak to you this way, But will tell you plainly about the Father.

Yes, By the Holy Spirit and now through the Scriptures.
Guided by the Holy Spirit the first church which is the Roman Catholic Church was built. Today we have 30, 000 denominations of Christians. Most of them are in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church which was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

There are not 30, 000 denominations. Not that it matters - the roman catholic church was not the first church. The church at Jerusalem was the first church followed by others in the region. Rome did not become a church for many years later. And it was not accepted a leading church for many centuries.

the roman church has left its moorings - it like you, Decided that good works was the way to salvation - rather than faith through grace. Hindus believe in salvation by good works - ultimately reaching Nirvana. Protestant churches reject rightly this as nonsense - and even as I read your words, You confirm this each time you write by the evidence of your heart being revealed in your words.

The 10 commandments say.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, To keep it holy.
5. Honour your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

1. He tried to claim he was God.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "

Jesus was and remains God.

2. He made a covenant with a cup.
Luke 22:20 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, Which is poured out for you.

not sure how this is supposed to break the second commandment. A cup is a symbol - it is not an idol. People don't worship the cup. A covenant is an agreement with God.

3. Jesus said every word he spoke came from God. Unless God too was as incoherent as Jesus. God in the OT never spoke in parables. His orders were clear and direct.
Luke 18:34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, And they did not comprehend what He was saying.

Jesus words were plain when he wanted them to be. And parabolic when he wanted them to be. Not one word was ever against the Father.

4. Jesus broke the sabbath.
Pharisees accused Him of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:10; Mark 3:2, John 9:14-16).

the Pharisees accused of many things which could not be proven and were false. Jesus was complying with the law anyway. Love was greater than the law - In every event which might be falsely construed against Jesus relating to the sabbath - it was ALWAYS for the benefit of healing or feeding someone in love. It was never for himself or for greed. And he was the LORD of the SABBATH anyway.

5. He tried to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, A daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"

This is just nonsense. He told the Pharisees they should not divorce just because they did not like their wife. He told his friends to look after his mum when he was dying. And as I said above - Jesus point in the above verse was about ensuring that people loved God more than they did family. And that if family chose family over God then the only right choice was to choose God. I totally and absolutely agree with this.

6. Jesus murdered the truth.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "
Yet he spent his entire ministry condemning the very people he was sent to save.

Jesus is the truth. And he came not just for the Jews - but for all of the world. Read Acts 1. Read Matthew 28 - the only Jews he condemned were the Pharisees and those Jews who were rejecting him and the truth of God.

7. Jesus was unfaithful to God and his disciples. He left them to die even though he was given all authority over heaven and earth.
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

Jesus did not leave them alone - He sent the Holy Spirit to be with them. How can he be unfaithful to himself.

8. Jesus stole the words of the prophets before him and claimed they pointed to him.
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.
Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, Explaining from all the Scriptures. . . And Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures, Beginning with the books of Moses and the writings of all the prophets".

Jesus was God - therefore no stealing.

9. Jesus accused God of betraying and forsaking him on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " which means, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "

I have explained this before and you have not yet addressed my responses. Your total lack of addressing them concedes my point.

10. Jesus suffered from a messiah complex and coveted the title messiah/Christ/Anointed one.
John 17:1 After Jesus said this, He looked toward heaven and prayed:
"Father, The hour has come. Glorify your Son, That your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, The only true God, And Jesus Christ, Whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, Glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Jesus is God - how and why can he covet anything?
Harikrish
Posts: 28,417
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10/8/2018 3:32:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Harikrish wrote:
"Honouring your father and mother was one of the 10 commandments directly from God.
Deuteronomy 5:16 "Honor your father and your mother, As the Lord your God has commanded you, So that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the Lord your God is giving you. "

But Jesus said he came to destroy the traditional family.

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, But to fulfill them.

I don't think you can demonstrate he ever disobeyed the law.
I just proved Jesus broke the 10 commandments.

Jesus spoke in parables from time to time - but not always. These parables only remained unknowable or confusing to those who were not God's children. And when the disciples did not understand, They asked Jesus who explained it to them. The parables were like spiritual hand grenades - meant to divide the true sheep from the goats.

Even his disciples did not understand Jesus. Jesus was incoherent most of the time.
Luke 18:34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, And they did not comprehend what He was saying.
He said a time would come when he would no longer be incoherent. But he was crucified shortly after.

John 16:25 I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. A time is coming when I will no longer speak to you this way, But will tell you plainly about the Father.


Yes, By the Holy Spirit and now through the Scriptures.
Guided by the Holy Spirit the first church which is the Roman Catholic Church was built. Today we have 30, 000 denominations of Christians. Most of them are in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church which was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

There are not 30, 000 denominations. Not that it matters - the roman catholic church was not the first church.
Peter was the first by bishop according to Catholics.

The 10 commandments say.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, To keep it holy.
5. Honour your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

1. He tried to claim he was God.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "

Jesus was and remains God.

Jesus is the crucifix that Catholics and the Pope carries as a reminder of Gods failure and the failure of Jesus.
2. He made a covenant with a cup.
Luke 22:20 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, Which is poured out for you.

not sure how this is supposed to break the second commandment. A cup is a symbol - it is not an idol. People don't worship the cup. A covenant is an agreement with God.

Idols are symbols, you mutt. Jesus did not make a covenant with the people, he made it with the cup he was drinking from.

3. Jesus said every word he spoke came from God. Unless God too was as incoherent as Jesus. God in the OT never spoke in parables. His orders were clear and direct.
Luke 18:34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, And they did not comprehend what He was saying.

Jesus words were plain when he wanted them to be. And parabolic when he wanted them to be. Not one word was ever against the Father.

Jesus said he was forsaken by God.
4. Jesus broke the sabbath.
Pharisees accused Him of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:10; Mark 3:2, John 9:14-16).

the Pharisees accused of many things which could not be proven and were false. Jesus was complying with the law anyway. Love was greater than the law - In every event which might be falsely construed against Jesus relating to the sabbath - it was ALWAYS for the benefit of healing or feeding someone in love. It was never for himself or for greed. And he was the LORD of the SABBATH anyway.
Jesus was a carpenter's son. At 30 he was not married, unemployed and hung out with 12 unsavoury men. Peter lied about Jesus and Judas betrayed Jesus.

5. He tried to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, A daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"

This is just nonsense. He told the Pharisees they should not divorce just because they did not like their wife. He told his friends to look after his mum when he was dying. And as I said above - Jesus point in the above verse was about ensuring that people loved God more than they did family. And that if family chose family over God then the only right choice was to choose God. I totally and absolutely agree with this.

Jesus said he had come to turn children against their parents. The law given by God was they should honour their parents. The people rejected Jesus.

6. Jesus murdered the truth.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "
Yet he spent his entire ministry condemning the very people he was sent to save.

Jesus is the truth. And he came not just for the Jews - but for all of the world. Read Acts 1. Read Matthew 28 - the only Jews he condemned were the Pharisees and those Jews who were rejecting him and the truth of God.

The Jews still reject Jesus to this day.
7. Jesus was unfaithful to God and his disciples. He left them to die even though he was given all authority over heaven and earth.
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

Jesus did not leave them alone - He sent the Holy Spirit to be with them. How can he be unfaithful to himself.

Jesus lamented God was unfaithful to him.
Matt 27:46 My god my god why have you forsaken me.
The holy spirt help create 30,000 denominations of Christians.

8. Jesus stole the words of the prophets before him and claimed they pointed to him.
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.
Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, Explaining from all the Scriptures. . . And Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures, Beginning with the books of Moses and the writings of all the prophets".

Jesus was God - therefore no stealing.

Jesus was a liar and a lunatic which was why he was crucified. Who would dare to crucify God!
9. Jesus accused God of betraying and forsaking him on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "

I have explained this before and you have not yet addressed my responses.

You gave no scriptures to back your claims. Just hollow unsubstantiated opinions.
10. Jesus suffered from a messiah complex and coveted the title messiah/Christ/Anointed one.
John 17:1 After Jesus said this, He looked toward heaven and prayed:
"Father, The hour has come. Glorify your Son, That your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, The only true God, And Jesus Christ, Whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, Glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Jesus is God - how and why can he covet anything?
Jesus was mocked, beaten, ridiculed and crucified. Not very Godly ending.
Tradesecret
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10/10/2018 1:43:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
"But Jesus said he came to destroy the traditional family".
No. Wrong.

" I just proved Jesus broke the 10 commandments. "
No you did not. You select passages out of context and then convince yourself - no one else agrees with your distortions.


There are not 30, 000 denominations. Not that it matters - the roman catholic church was not the first church.

Peter was the first by bishop according to Catholics.
So What? The Catholics have this wrong. I am not a Catholic.


1. He tried to claim he was God.
Jesus was and remains God.
: :
2. He made a covenant with a cup.
Luke 22:20 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, Which is poured out for you.

not sure how this is supposed to break the second commandment. A cup is a symbol - it is not an idol. People don't worship the cup. A covenant is an agreement with God.

Idols are symbols, You mutt. Jesus did not make a covenant with the people, He made it with the cup he was drinking from.
You are even dafter than I thought. Jesus made the covenant with God. He simply repeated words from Exodus covenant meal and related it to himself.

4. Jesus broke the sabbath.
Jesus was a carpenter's son. At 30 he was not married, Unemployed and hung out with 12 unsavoury men. Peter lied about Jesus and Judas betrayed Jesus.

Jesus never broke the sabbath.


6. Jesus murdered the truth.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "
Yet he spent his entire ministry condemning the very people he was sent to save.

Jesus is the truth. And he came not just for the Jews - but for all of the world. Read Acts 1. Read Matthew 28 - the only Jews he condemned were the Pharisees and those Jews who were rejecting him and the truth of God.

The Jews still reject Jesus to this day.

They reject God today. They still have not repented of their foolishness and disobedience. Their rejection of Jesus has nothing to do with the truth of Jesus' claims and in fact affirms it. Is 53 - tells us the messiah would be rejected by the Jews.

8. Jesus stole the words of the prophets before him and claimed they pointed to him.
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.
Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, Explaining from all the Scriptures. . . And Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures, Beginning with the books of Moses and the writings of all the prophets".

Jesus was God - therefore no stealing.

Jesus was a liar and a lunatic which was why he was crucified. Who would dare to crucify God!

Satan was happy to assist Adam and Eve to reject God's truths. He wanted Jesus dead. He wanted Jesus to fail. And interestingly enough, It was Satan's stupidity and lack of wisdom which God had planned all along to demonstrate his own wisdom - Jesus death was the answer to sin - and his resurrection from the dead, Proved it.

I really find you boring, Repetitious and unthinking. You have not even given one reason to support your allegations or claims. You quote a scripture but forsake the context. You don't answer my questions. You demonstrate an inept and ignorance of the Scriptures. I am still waiting for one - yes even one - bit of evidence to support your claims.
Harikrish
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10/10/2018 4:05:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Harikrish wrote:
"But Jesus said he came to destroy the traditional family".

Tradesecret wrote:
No. Wrong.

Here is the s scriotural evidence.
Matthew 10. 35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"

I just proved Jesus broke the 10 commandments.
No you did not. You select passages out of context and then convince yourself - no one else agrees with your distortions.


The selected passages are scriptural evidence. You offer only unsubstantiated hollow opinions like the typical scripturally ignorant mutt.

There are not 30, 000 denominations. Not that it matters - the roman catholic church was not the first church.

Peter was the first by bishop according to Catholics.
So What? The Catholics have this wrong. I am not a Catholic.

So you are ignorant of the history of the Romsn Catholic Church and therefore are arguing from ignorance.

1. He tried to claim he was God.
Jesus was and remains God.
: :
The God Jesus thought he was forsook Jesus on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " which means, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "

2. He made a covenant with a cup.
Luke 22:20 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, Which is poured out for you.

not sure how this is supposed to break the second commandment. A cup is a symbol - it is not an idol. People don't worship the cup. A covenant is an agreement with God.

Idols are symbols, You mutt. Jesus did not make a covenant with the people, He made it with the cup he was drinking from.
You are even dafter than I thought. Jesus made the covenant with God. He simply repeated words from Exodus covenant meal and related it to himself.

Jesus made the covenant with a cup before his disciples. He was talking to his disciples and celebrating his last supper with them. Read the bible you ignorant mutt.
Luke 22:19 And he took bread, Gave thanks and broke it, And gave it to them, Saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me. "
Luke 22:20 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, Which is poured out for you.

3. Jesus said every word he spoke came from God. Unless God too was as incoherent as Jesus. God in the OT never spoke in parables. His orders were clear and direct.
Luke 18:34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, And they did not comprehend what He was saying.

4. Jesus broke the sabbath.
Jesus was a carpenter's son. At 30 he was not married, Unemployed and hung out with 12 unsavoury men. Peter lied about Jesus and Judas betrayed Jesus.

Jesus never broke the sabbath.

Pharisees accused Him of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:10; Mark 3:2, John 9:14-16).

5. He tried to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, A daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"

6. Jesus murdered the truth.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "
Yet he spent his entire ministry condemning the very people he was sent to save.

Jesus is the truth. And he came not just for the Jews - but for all of the world. Read Acts 1. Read Matthew 28 - the only Jews he condemned were the Pharisees and those Jews who were rejecting him and the truth of God.

The Jews still reject Jesus to this day.

They reject God today. They still have not repented of their foolishness and disobedience. Their rejection of Jesus has nothing to do with the truth of Jesus' claims and in fact affirms it. Is 53 - tells us the messiah would be rejected by the Jews.

Isaiah promised Ahaz God would send him a sign. That was a sign to Ahaz 700 years before Jesus arrived. Ahaz never found the virgin mother or a child named Immanuel. Isaiah! / prophecy failed.
Isaiah 7:12 But Ahaz said, "I will not ask; I will not put the Lord to the test. "

13 Then Isaiah said, "Hear now, You house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[c] a sign: The virgin[d] will conceive and give birth to a son, And[e] will call him Immanuel.

7. Jesus was unfaithful to God and his disciples. He left them to die even though he was given all authority over heaven and earth.
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

8. Jesus stole the words of the prophets before him and claimed they pointed to him.
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.
Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, Explaining from all the Scriptures. . . And Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures, Beginning with the books of Moses and the writings of all the prophets".

Jesus was God - therefore no stealing.
Jesus is quoted saying he coming like a thief in the night.
Revelation 16:15, Matthew 24:43, 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 1 Thessalonians 5:4, 2 Peter 3:10 ESV - ("Behold, I am coming like a thief in the night")

Jesus was a liar and a lunatic which was why he was crucified. Who would dare to crucify God!

Satan was happy to assist Adam and Eve to reject God's truths. He wanted Jesus dead. He wanted Jesus to fail. And interestingly enough, It was Satan's stupidity and lack of wisdom which God had planned all along to demonstrate his own wisdom - Jesus death was the answer to sin - and his resurrection from the dead, Proved it.

Satan place in scriptures.
1. Satan is god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4)? "
2. Satan is also called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2.
3. He is the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. T

Meanwhile Jesus is living in His father's house and works as a housekeeper preparing rooms for guests.
John 14:;2 My Father"s house has many rooms; if that were not so, Would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

On earth Jesus was unmarried at 30, Unemployed and hung out with unsavoury men. Peter lied about Jesus and judas betrayed Jesus. What a loser.

I really find you boring, Repetitious and unthinking. You have not even given one reason to support your allegations or claims. You quote a scripture but forsake the context. You don't answer my questions. You demonstrate an inept and ignorance of the Scriptures. I am still waiting for one - yes even one - bit of evidence to support your claims.

The scriptures back my claims. So does the Pope.
Even the Pope declared the cross was a failure of God.

Pope Francis said during his whirlwind U. S. Tour. "And if at times OUR EFFORTS AND WORKS SEEM TO FAIL AND PRODUCE NO FRUIT, We need to REMEMBER that WE ARE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS we are followers of Jesus. . . And His LIFE, Humanly speaking, ENDED IN FAILURE, THE FAILURE OF THE CROSS. "

When you don"t understand something, When desperation hits you then look at the CROSS. THAT IS THE GREAT FAILURE OF GOD, THAT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF GOD, AND IT'S A CHALLENGE TO OUR FAITH.
Tradesecret
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10/11/2018 5:15:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Pope Francis might have said what you reckon - so what? I have not read it and I suspect although I don't know that it is probably part of a sermon which goes on to talk about the resurrection. I think Francis was wrong if he says Jesus death was a failure. Like you he is obviously unread in the scriptures and worse, A betrayer of the faith.

You have not persuaded me by your rhetoric. You don't listen to objections properly and consider you are some kind of spiritual guru. I would not let my children near you, Let alone the flock of God. What you have and what you espouse is not only dangerous it is a put off and very unattractive. Still, I will pray for you again and leave it up to God to determine how he will deal with you. I personally find you offensive and ignorant. Nevertheless, God is much wiser than me and might have a different view.

I wish you well.
Harikrish
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10/11/2018 5:34:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Pope Francis might have said what you reckon - so what? I have not read it and I suspect although I don't know that it is probably part of a sermon which goes on to talk about the resurrection. I think Francis was wrong if he says Jesus death was a failure. Like you he is obviously unread in the scriptures and worse, A betrayer of the faith.

You have not persuaded me by your rhetoric. You don't listen to objections properly and consider you are some kind of spiritual guru. I would not let my children near you, Let alone the flock of God. What you have and what you espouse is not only dangerous it is a put off and very unattractive. Still, I will pray for you again and leave it up to God to determine how he will deal with you. I personally find you offensive and ignorant. Nevertheless, God is much wiser than me and might have a different view.

I wish you well.

The Pope is the leader of the Roman Catholic Church which has over a billion Christians. I have quoted the Pope from two of his speeches when the second one was further explaining what he meant by the failure of the cross.

Pope Francis said during his whirlwind U. S. Tour. "And if at times OUR EFFORTS AND WORKS SEEM TO FAIL AND PRODUCE NO FRUIT, We need to REMEMBER that WE ARE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS. . . And His LIFE, Humanly speaking, ENDED IN FAILURE, THE FAILURE OF THE CROSS. "

When you don"t understand something, When desperation hits you then look at the CROSS. THAT IS THE GREAT FAILURE OF GOD, THAT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF GOD, AND IT'S A CHALLENGE TO OUR FAITH.

I am sure the Pope knows his scriptures whereas are scripturally ignorant. So you have a long way to go before you can critized the Pope.
Tradesecret
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10/12/2018 12:31:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
You do realise don't you, That just because you repeat the same thing over and over again, That it does not make it any more true, Nor does it make it any more sensible?

I don't care what the pope says or said or will say. He also said in the past that he was infallible. And that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic church and that protestants are all going to Hell. But none of those things worry me either.
Harikrish
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10/12/2018 3:02:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
You do realise don't you, That just because you repeat the same thing over and over again, That it does not make it any more true, Nor does it make it any more sensible?

I don't care what the pope says or said or will say. He also said in the past that he was infallible. And that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic church and that protestants are all going to Hell. But none of those things worry me either.

If the Pope is infallible then what he says should matter and Protestants should be concerned for the same reason.
Tradesecret
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10/13/2018 1:11:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The pope is not infallible. He is a man who has taken on more authority than he was given. Hence he is a thief.

Protestants have nothing to fear from not obeying the pope.

We protested for the authority of the Scriptures over and above papal and traditions.
Harikrish
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10/13/2018 4:09:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
The pope is not infallible. He is a man who has taken on more authority than he was given. Hence he is a thief.

Protestants have nothing to fear from not obeying the pope.

We protested for the authority of the Scriptures over and above papal and traditions.

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, And on this rock I will build My church, And the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

Peter was the first bishop of the Catholic Church. So the Catholic Church is a fulfillment of Jesus's promise. And the Pope is the high priest of Jesus's church.

The Pope has the right to be critical of Jesus. Jesus allowed the Romans to mock, Beat and crucify him.
Tradesecret
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10/15/2018 6:02:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The pope is not infallible. He is a man who has taken on more authority than he was given. Hence he is a thief.

Protestants have nothing to fear from not obeying the pope.

We protested for the authority of the Scriptures over and above papal and traditions.

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, And on this rock I will build My church, And the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

Peter was the first bishop of the Catholic Church. So the Catholic Church is a fulfillment of Jesus's promise. And the Pope is the high priest of Jesus's church.

The Pope has the right to be critical of Jesus. Jesus allowed the Romans to mock, Beat and crucify him.


You cite the roman Catholic understanding of that passage. Yet you miss the same passage in John which clearly states that this authority was for all of the Apostles. When Paul wrote the letter to the Romans and in what year, Dear? Why is it that he does not address it to Pope Peter if Peter was there and was the bishop? The answer is clear. Peter was not in Rome at that time and he was not bishop. Also if Peter was infallible - why is it that Paul was able to remonstrate with him and win the day? Peter did not have so called papal authority because he was one of the apostles. The papists simply invented it to afford the look of credibility. Yet, He simply is another man. Many wonder if the pope is even a Christian.

No one has the right to be critical of Jesus. Jesus is God. He is the second person of the divine Trinity. Even the roman catholics in all of their stupidity would not criticise one they claimed to be divine.
Harikrish
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10/15/2018 4:02:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
The pope is not infallible. He is a man who has taken on more authority than he was given. Hence he is a thief.

Protestants have nothing to fear from not obeying the pope.

We protested for the authority of the Scriptures over and above papal and traditions.

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, And on this rock I will build My church, And the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

Peter was the first bishop of the Catholic Church. So the Catholic Church is a fulfillment of Jesus's promise. And the Pope is the high priest of Jesus's church.

The Pope has the right to be critical of Jesus. Jesus allowed the Romans to mock, Beat and crucify him.


You cite the roman Catholic understanding of that passage. Yet you miss the same passage in John which clearly states that this authority was for all of the Apostles. When Paul wrote the letter to the Romans and in what year, Dear? Why is it that he does not address it to Pope Peter if Peter was there and was the bishop? The answer is clear. Peter was not in Rome at that time and he was not bishop. Also if Peter was infallible - why is it that Paul was able to remonstrate with him and win the day? Peter did not have so called papal authority because he was one of the apostles. The papists simply invented it to afford the look of credibility. Yet, He simply is another man. Many wonder if the pope is even a Christian.


No one has the right to be critical of Jesus. Jesus is God. He is the second person of the divine Trinity. Even the roman catholics in all of their stupidity would not criticise one they claimed to be divine.

Learn to read you ignorant mutt.
Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, And on this rock I will build My church, And the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

Jesus picked Paul to build his church on. Peter was declared the first bishop of the Catholic church.
The other churches were created in protest many many centures later without the benefit of the original apostles or the Holy Spirit.
The Pope has the right to be critical of Jesus. Jesus allowed the Romans to mock, Beat and crucify him because he could not deliver on his promise. The Pope continues to hold Jesus accountable for his failed promises.

Remember the Pope is the leader of over a billion Catholics. God struggled to manage a single Jewish couple (Adam and Eve).
Tradesecret
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10/15/2018 10:41:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, And on this rock I will build My church, And the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

Yes, I have read that passage and it does not say Peter is the pope. It calls Peter a little rock - but that God will build his church on the big rock - namely Jesus. Learn to read Greek, Simpleton. And if you keep reading the passage you will see that Peter is given the keys of the kingdom, The power to bind or loose. If you read John, You will find the same key is given to all of the disciples when they receive the Holy Spirit. Similarly in Eph 4: Paul clearly indicates that the church is built on the apostles and prophets with Jesus being the chief cornerstone.

Jesus picked Paul to build his church on. Peter was declared the first bishop of the Catholic church.

You are reading into it what is not there. Jesus never picked Paul to build his church on. Jesus was the foundations - Paul and Silas and Appollos and Peter all were foundational preachers and apostles - Jesus is the key here. Peter was never declared bishop in so far as he was an apostle. If you knew your greek, Which obviously you do not, Then you would realise that the word episcopis (bishop) and presbuteros (elder) are used interchangeably. Every elder was a bishop and every bishop was an elder. No church had a bishop who was not just one among elders.

The other churches were created in protest many many centures later without the benefit of the original apostles or the Holy Spirit.

It is true that during the Reformation a new and fresh wind blew through the church to see reformation and to turn God's people back to the Scriptures. I think this was profound and necessary because the Roman Catholic Church had turned its own people dark and blinded them from the truth because in many ways they had forsaken God. Yes, There were many Christians among its ranks, But overall there was not much growth happening. Yet, Before the Reformation, The Orthodox church was functioning. As too were the celtic churches in Great Britain and even in Africa and around the world. Study church history and you will be astounded at the spread of Christianity outside of the Roman Church. Remember not all of the early church lived on the continent of Europe and not every one acceded to the pope. Many resisted because they preferred God's teachings over a man.

The Pope has the right to be critical of Jesus. Jesus allowed the Romans to mock, Beat and crucify him because he could not deliver on his promise. The Pope continues to hold Jesus accountable for his failed promises.

That is utter garbage. It is garbage for many reasons. Even the Catholic church does not teach this. Only someone who has no understanding of Catholic dogma would make such a foolish line.

Remember the Pope is the leader of over a billion Catholics. God struggled to manage a single Jewish couple (Adam and Eve).

Adam and Eve were no Jewish. They were created a long time before Jacob. God did not struggle - his plans have always come perfectly true.
Harikrish
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10/16/2018 12:03:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, And on this rock I will build My church, And the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

Yes, I have read that passage and it does not say Peter is the pope. It calls Peter a little rock - but that God will build his church on the big rock - namely Jesus. Learn to read Greek, Simpleton. And if you keep reading the passage you will see that Peter is given the keys of the kingdom, The power to bind or loose. If you read John, You will find the same key is given to all of the disciples when they receive the Holy Spirit. Similarly in Eph 4: Paul clearly indicates that the church is built on the apostles and prophets with Jesus being the chief cornerstone.

Jesus did not call Peter a big or little rock. Jesus said he wpuld build his church on the rock (Peter).
Jesus picked Peter to build his church on. Peter was declared the first bishop of the Catholic church.

jesus appeared to Paul after he announced he would build his church on a rock (Peter being the rock).
Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, And on this rock I will build My church, And the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

You are reading into it what is not there. Jesus never picked Paul to build his church on. Jesus was the foundations - Paul and Silas and Appollos and Peter all were foundational preachers and apostles - Jesus is the key here. Peter was never declared bishop in so far as he was an apostle. If you knew your greek, Which obviously you do not, Then you would realise that the word episcopis (bishop) and presbuteros (elder) are used interchangeably. Every elder was a bishop and every bishop was an elder. No church had a bishop who was not just one among elders.

The other churches were created in protest many many centures later without the benefit of the original apostles or the Holy Spirit.

It is true that during the Reformation a new and fresh wind blew through the church to see reformation and to turn God's people back to the Scriptures. I think this was profound and necessary because the Roman Catholic Church had turned its own people dark and blinded them from the truth because in many ways they had forsaken God. Yes, There were many Christians among its ranks, But overall there was not much growth happening. Yet, Before the Reformation, The Orthodox church was functioning. As too were the celtic churches in Great Britain and even in Africa and around the world. Study church history and you will be astounded at the spread of Christianity outside of the Roman Church. Remember not all of the early church lived on the continent of Europe and not every one acceded to the pope. Many resisted because they preferred God's teachings over a man.

The Pope has the right to be critical of Jesus. Jesus allowed the Romans to mock, Beat and crucify him because he could not deliver on his promise. The Pope continues to hold Jesus accountable for his failed promises.

That is utter garbage. It is garbage for many reasons. Even the Catholic church does not teach this. Only someone who has no understanding of Catholic dogma would make such a foolish line.

Remember the Pope is the leader of over a billion Catholics. God struggled to manage a single Jewish couple (Adam and Eve).


Adam and Eve were no Jewish. They were created a long time before Jacob. God did not struggle - his plans have always come perfectly true.

Read you bible. Luke 3 traces Jesus's geneology all the way to Adam.

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