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God Does Not Exist

Willows
Posts: 11,600
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10/21/2018 4:32:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think that atheists are entitled to say there is no God (nor any other spiritual presence) and just because theists call foul, It does nothing to detract from the credibility of the statement.

* God being "proven to my satisfaction" has no relevance since there is not one piece of viable evidence whatsoever, Not a skerrick, As to the existence of God.

* The one remaining defence from theists is that "we do not yet have the technology to prove God". This is a redundant argument since how would anyone know that we don't have the technology. In any case, The argument is open-ended since one could use the argument for eternity with no resolution.

* There is abundant evidence, For example, Evolution that contradicts the existence of God.

There are many claims that are unreasonable and foolish, For example, "goblins exist" or, "fairies exist", And, Including "God exists". Despite all being documented and talked about for centuries, None has any credibility.

Hundreds of years ago it may have been acceptable and not regarded as foolish to make one of these claims. Nowadays, However, Given that we are much better educated and have ready access to abundant information, Anyone maintaining any of these beliefs can quite rightly be labeled as foolish. Familiarity or universal acceptance by staunch believers does not necessarily change this. In fact, The number of staunch God believers compared with those who "say so", Are few and far between.

Therefore, Irrespective of the black and white view of "you cannot disprove God" we have to look at reason and the absurd possibility of anyone making a ridiculous claim by using the same "you cannot disprove" defence.

An atheist is quite entitled to say that "God does not exist".
Leaning
Posts: 2,560
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10/21/2018 4:56:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
People are free to believe what they like.
In school, People are free to teach what the government 'orders them to teach. Usually decided as society leans.

Anyone in society can be entitled to the belief in no deity when enough society considers it obvious fact. And officials agree and prescribe such thought. I don't think society is quite there yet.

Currently though, I'm thinking people are just free to believe what they like, Rather than just there being no deity.
Fatihah
Posts: 9,735
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10/21/2018 3:34:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The evidence of God is clear as shown by the fact that no atheist or any person at that can draw a simple checkerboard pattern without choice. Therefore, We have clear deductive logic from firsthand evidence that a repeating pattern can only originate from choice. Therefore, The patterns in the universe and life itself must also originate from choice. Proving God existence.

Now when atheists can show firsthand evidence of a repeating pattern from non-choice, Then they will have a point. Since they cannot, Then all we see is a bunch of deluded people saying God does not exist but not because they have evidence or that there is a lack of evidence for God, But because God won't do what they want Him to do, So like a child they cry and say God does not exist despite the obvious evidence. Sad.
Harikrish
Posts: 28,417
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10/21/2018 6:02:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Fatihah wrote:
The evidence of God is clear as shown by the fact that no atheist or any person at that can draw a simple checkerboard pattern without choice. Therefore, We have clear deductive logic from firsthand evidence that a repeating pattern can only originate from choice. Therefore, The patterns in the universe and life itself must also originate from choice. Proving God existence.

Now when atheists can show firsthand evidence of a repeating pattern from non-choice, Then they will have a point. Since they cannot, Then all we see is a bunch of deluded people saying God does not exist but not because they have evidence or that there is a lack of evidence for God, But because God won't do what they want Him to do, So like a child they cry and say God does not exist despite the obvious evidence. Sad.

There are 800 million illiterate Muslims out of 1. 6 billion Muslims in the world today that cannot and have not read the sacred book of Islam the Quran. The Quran is written in Arabic. Even among the educated Muslims only a small percentage speak or read Arabic. That further reduces the number of Muslims that can or have read the Quran.

It is believed the Quran was written by scribes to whom the prophet recited from memory what Gabriel told him in a secluded cave. But the prophet was illiterate so he could not verify what the scribes wrote were accurate. So it matters even less to the illiterate Muslims what is written in the Quran any more than it mattered to the illiterate prophet that he couldn't read it.

Now apply the Muslim worldview to the known sciences as well. How motivated are illiterate Muslims?
Willows
Posts: 11,600
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10/22/2018 2:55:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Leaning wrote:
People are free to believe what they like.
In school, People are free to teach what the government 'orders them to teach. Usually decided as society leans.

Anyone in society can be entitled to the belief in no deity when enough society considers it obvious fact. And officials agree and prescribe such thought. I don't think society is quite there yet.

Currently though, I'm thinking people are just free to believe what they like, Rather than just there being no deity.

I agree.
People are free to believe what they like and in a democratic society, People are free to express their beliefs.

My contention is that it is a matter of stepping over the lines of societal freedom where some enforce their unfounded and personally threatening beliefs on those who are impressionable, Most notably, On children.
ken1122
Posts: 1,733
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10/22/2018 4:17:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows said:
I think that atheists are entitled to say there is no God (nor any other spiritual presence) and just because theists call foul, It does nothing to detract from the credibility of the statement.

* God being "proven to my satisfaction" has no relevance since there is not one piece of viable evidence whatsoever, Not a skerrick, As to the existence of God.

* The one remaining defence from theists is that "we do not yet have the technology to prove God". This is a redundant argument since how would anyone know that we don't have the technology. In any case, The argument is open-ended since one could use the argument for eternity with no resolution.

* There is abundant evidence, For example, Evolution that contradicts the existence of God.

There are many claims that are unreasonable and foolish, For example, "goblins exist" or, "fairies exist", And, Including "God exists". Despite all being documented and talked about for centuries, None has any credibility.

Hundreds of years ago it may have been acceptable and not regarded as foolish to make one of these claims. Nowadays, However, Given that we are much better educated and have ready access to abundant information, Anyone maintaining any of these beliefs can quite rightly be labeled as foolish. Familiarity or universal acceptance by staunch believers does not necessarily change this. In fact, The number of staunch God believers compared with those who "say so", Are few and far between.

Therefore, Irrespective of the black and white view of "you cannot disprove God" we have to look at reason and the absurd possibility of anyone making a ridiculous claim by using the same "you cannot disprove" defence.

An atheist is quite entitled to say that "God does not exist".

ken1122 said:
If you gonna speak of God"s existence, You should be clear which God you are referring to. You seem to be making the mistake of assuming "God"= the Judeo-Christian God. This is a mistake; there are many things people call God, And there is ample proof that many of them DO exist.
Willows
Posts: 11,600
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10/22/2018 4:44:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
ken1122 wrote:
Willows said:
I think that atheists are entitled to say there is no God (nor any other spiritual presence) and just because theists call foul, It does nothing to detract from the credibility of the statement.

* God being "proven to my satisfaction" has no relevance since there is not one piece of viable evidence whatsoever, Not a skerrick, As to the existence of God.

* The one remaining defence from theists is that "we do not yet have the technology to prove God". This is a redundant argument since how would anyone know that we don't have the technology. In any case, The argument is open-ended since one could use the argument for eternity with no resolution.

* There is abundant evidence, For example, Evolution that contradicts the existence of God.

There are many claims that are unreasonable and foolish, For example, "goblins exist" or, "fairies exist", And, Including "God exists". Despite all being documented and talked about for centuries, None has any credibility.

Hundreds of years ago it may have been acceptable and not regarded as foolish to make one of these claims. Nowadays, However, Given that we are much better educated and have ready access to abundant information, Anyone maintaining any of these beliefs can quite rightly be labeled as foolish. Familiarity or universal acceptance by staunch believers does not necessarily change this. In fact, The number of staunch God believers compared with those who "say so", Are few and far between.

Therefore, Irrespective of the black and white view of "you cannot disprove God" we have to look at reason and the absurd possibility of anyone making a ridiculous claim by using the same "you cannot disprove" defence.

An atheist is quite entitled to say that "God does not exist".


ken1122 said:
If you gonna speak of God"s existence, You should be clear which God you are referring to. You seem to be making the mistake of assuming "God"= the Judeo-Christian God. This is a mistake; there are many things people call God, And there is ample proof that many of them DO exist.

That is a totally ridiculous proposition.
I could call my dog God then assert that God exists.

God (in whatever form one tries to make out) does not exist and making up completely unreasoned absurdities only shows the extreme reasoning people will resort to in order to justify their errant beliefs.

What are you going to resort to next? . . . . . . . . God is everything, Or, God is love?
Sorry, But those ones were well and truly worn out and well past their use-by-date years ago.
ken1122
Posts: 1,733
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10/22/2018 5:34:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows said:
That is a totally ridiculous proposition.
I could call my dog God then assert that God exists.

ken1122 said:
Yeah; and if someone told you God doesn"t exist, He would be wrong.

Willows said:
God (in whatever form one tries to make out) does not exist and making up completely unreasoned absurdities only shows the extreme reasoning people will resort to in order to justify their errant beliefs.

ken1122 said:
There are Rastafarians who worship Halle Selassie (former president of Ethiopia; who died in the 1970"s) the same way Christians worship Jesus.
There are Hindus who worship Kumari who is still alive today.
These Gods are as real to these people as Jesus and Yahweh are to Christians.
My point is; there are things people worship that are very real; so unless you make it clear which God you are referring to, It would be foolish to tell a theist his God doesn"t exist.
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,426
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10/22/2018 6:24:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willow,

the evidence for god is everywhere. Look at the sun. Look at the moon. Look at the nice people in the world. Look at the evil people in the world. Look at the suffering. Look at the hopeless. Think about death and about not dying.

Everything points to God. You are blind and cannot see it.

The existence of evil proves that God exists.
Willows
Posts: 11,600
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10/22/2018 11:38:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Willow,

the evidence for god is everywhere. Look at the sun. Look at the moon. Look at the nice people in the world. Look at the evil people in the world. Look at the suffering. Look at the hopeless. Think about death and about not dying.

Everything points to God. You are blind and cannot see it.


The existence of evil proves that God exists.

Well thanks for that lovely piece of metaphorical rhetoric.

I like to think that I can see the sunshine, Feel the fresh air on my face and smell the lavender without having to think about how it all got here.
Or, For that matter, Without having to make up stories as to how it all got here.
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,426
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10/22/2018 9:41:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well thanks for that lovely piece of metaphorical rhetoric.

I like to think that I can see the sunshine, Feel the fresh air on my face and smell the lavender without having to think about how it all got here.
Or, For that matter, Without having to make up stories as to how it all got here.


Of course you don't. That is because you don't like to think about things to closely or you might see the truth. Imagine actually having to think about such things? Asking questions and not simply accepting things. It might do you the world of good.
Willows
Posts: 11,600
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10/23/2018 10:32:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Well thanks for that lovely piece of metaphorical rhetoric.

I like to think that I can see the sunshine, Feel the fresh air on my face and smell the lavender without having to think about how it all got here.
Or, For that matter, Without having to make up stories as to how it all got here.


Of course you don't. That is because you don't like to think about things to closely or you might see the truth. Imagine actually having to think about such things? Asking questions and not simply accepting things. It might do you the world of good.

Whenever I hear the "T" word, Alarm bells ring.
ken1122
Posts: 1,733
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10/23/2018 12:53:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
tradesecret said:
the evidence for god is everywhere. Look at the sun. Look at the moon. Look at the nice people in the world. Look at the evil people in the world. Look at the suffering. Look at the hopeless. Think about death and about not dying.

Everything points to God. You are blind and cannot see it.

The existence of evil proves that God exists.

If I believed in Santa Clause, And to me Santa was the creator of toys, The very existence of toys would be evidence of Santa to me, But not for you.

If you believe in God, And to you God was the creator of the Sun, Moon, And all that exists, The very existence of the Sun, The Moon, And all that exists would be evidence of God for you, But it would not be for me.
missmedic
Posts: 763
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10/23/2018 2:44:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
, Willows wrote:
I think that atheists are entitled to say there is no God (nor any other spiritual presence) and just because theists call foul, It does nothing to detract from the credibility of the statement.

A statement is true when it corresponds with reality. In other words, A statement is true if it matches up with the way the world really is.
So the only intellectually honest answer is "I don't know", Any other answer is based on arrogance and ignorance not knowledge. Knowledge is knowledge about reality.
ken1122
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10/24/2018 12:31:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows wrote:
I think that atheists are entitled to say there is no God (nor any other spiritual presence) and just because theists call foul, It does nothing to detract from the credibility of the statement.

missmedic wrote:
A statement is true when it corresponds with reality. In other words, A statement is true if it matches up with the way the world really is.
So the only intellectually honest answer is "I don't know", Any other answer is based on arrogance and ignorance not knowledge. Knowledge is knowledge about reality.

Why isn"t "I don"t believe you" also an intellectually honest answer if you don"t find the claim convincing?
Willows
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10/24/2018 10:03:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
missmedic wrote:
, Willows wrote:
I think that atheists are entitled to say there is no God (nor any other spiritual presence) and just because theists call foul, It does nothing to detract from the credibility of the statement.

A statement is true when it corresponds with reality. In other words, A statement is true if it matches up with the way the world really is.
So the only intellectually honest answer is "I don't know", Any other answer is based on arrogance and ignorance not knowledge. Knowledge is knowledge about reality.

Huh?
In that case, Anyone can go on infinitum and make any absurd statement they wish.
. . . . . E. G. "pink elephants with wings and hairy armpits exist. "

Now, Being the intellectually honest person that you are, You would say, "I don't know".

And of course, My response is going to be "don't be so stupid, There is no such thing".
So, Therefore, That makes ignorant and arrogant, Does it?
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 3,649
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10/24/2018 6:01:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
God exists and does not exist, In truth known can this be said by myself. To know more about which becomes the better truth, I'd suggest perhaps best is to stand closer to conceptually understanding this world, The universe, The fabric of virtues if any, Have been silently woven within it. If so, There might be something to be said for that. And if so, There's still trailing questions for that, And that, And that. . . .
Willows
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10/25/2018 12:05:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
MasonicSlayer wrote:
God exists and does not exist, In truth known can this be said by myself. To know more about which becomes the better truth, I'd suggest perhaps best is to stand closer to conceptually understanding this world, The universe, The fabric of virtues if any, Have been silently woven within it. If so, There might be something to be said for that. And if so, There's still trailing questions for that, And that, And that. . . .

We can conceptualize anything we want then try to justify or create some sort of reality around it but what we do know is that there is no reason to believe that God or Gods exist.
Athias
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10/26/2018 1:19:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Atheists have always, In my experience, Been full of themselves claiming the intellectual high ground as far as it concerns the notion of God. But this debate is a rather simple one. It's really a matter of semantics and logic. If God didn't exist, You would not be able to perceive his nonexistence because [he] does not exist. Now one can claim that the feats as described in the Bible or Torah have been rebutted or disproven, Which they haven't really, But to say that God does not exist is cognitive dissonance. It presumes a metaphysically objective knowledge that lies outside your capacity to perceive. And no, I'm not stating that "God works in mysterious ways, " or that "his omnipresence is beyond human understanding. " I'm stating that it's impossible for you, Or anyone else for that matter, To know of that which does not exist. Existence outside of human perception is an epistemological insignificance.

The irony is, By acknowledging God in some form, You are proving his existence.
ken1122
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10/26/2018 2:52:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Athias said:
Atheists have always, In my experience, Been full of themselves claiming the intellectual high ground as far as it concerns the notion of God. But this debate is a rather simple one. It's really a matter of semantics and logic. If God didn't exist, You would not be able to perceive his nonexistence because [he] does not exist.

Do you believe in Santa? Fairies? Unicorns? Can you perceive their nonexistence?
Willows
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10/26/2018 10:08:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Athias wrote:
Atheists have always, In my experience, Been full of themselves claiming the intellectual high ground as far as it concerns the notion of God. But this debate is a rather simple one. It's really a matter of semantics and logic. If God didn't exist, You would not be able to perceive his nonexistence because [he] does not exist. Now one can claim that the feats as described in the Bible or Torah have been rebutted or disproven, Which they haven't really, But to say that God does not exist is cognitive dissonance. It presumes a metaphysically objective knowledge that lies outside your capacity to perceive. And no, I'm not stating that "God works in mysterious ways, " or that "his omnipresence is beyond human understanding. " I'm stating that it's impossible for you, Or anyone else for that matter, To know of that which does not exist. Existence outside of human perception is an epistemological insignificance.

The irony is, By acknowledging God in some form, You are proving his existence.

There is no need whatsoever for atheists to claim the intellectual high ground since it is so by default.
Is it any wonder when someone comes along with such a ridiculously, Convoluted post of utter absurdity and completely devoid of any intellectual substance whatsoever?
Athias
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10/26/2018 1:43:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Do you believe in Santa? Fairies? Unicorns? Can you perceive their nonexistence?

Not believing in something is not the same as knowing something doesn't exist.

There is no need whatsoever for atheists to claim the intellectual high ground since it is so by default.

That's merely a megalomaniacal delusion.

Is it any wonder when someone comes along with such a ridiculously, Convoluted post of utter absurdity and completely devoid of any intellectual substance whatsoever?

That's neither a rebuttal nor a refutation; it's a pseudo-pedantic impression. And impressions by default are void of any intellectual substance. Try harder.
Harikrish
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10/26/2018 8:42:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
ken1122 wrote:
Athias said:
Atheists have always, In my experience, Been full of themselves claiming the intellectual high ground as far as it concerns the notion of God. But this debate is a rather simple one. It's really a matter of semantics and logic. If God didn't exist, You would not be able to perceive his nonexistence because [he] does not exist.


Do you believe in Santa? Fairies? Unicorns? Can you perceive their nonexistence?

There existence or nonexistence does not depend on one accepting a crucified and tortured human sacrificed in the name of religion brought salvation to the Gentiles, Much less consciously celebrating Jesus's demise. But 2 billion Christians believe a dead Jewish rabbi died for their sins, That only dead Jews can forgive sins.
Most Jews would gladly sacrifice Santa, Fairies, Unicorns for the sins of the Christians and spare Jews from this morbid perversion that only dead Jews can forgive sins.
ken1122
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10/26/2018 9:20:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Athias said:
Atheists have always, In my experience, Been full of themselves claiming the intellectual high ground as far as it concerns the notion of God. But this debate is a rather simple one. It's really a matter of semantics and logic. If God didn't exist, You would not be able to perceive his nonexistence because [he] does not exist.

Ken said:
Do you believe in Santa? Fairies? Unicorns? Can you perceive their nonexistence?

Athias said:
Not believing in something is not the same as knowing something doesn't exist.

Ken said:
That"s not what I asked. Again; can you perceive their non existence? (this question requires a yes or no answer)
ken1122
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10/26/2018 9:24:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Athias said:
Atheists have always, In my experience, Been full of themselves claiming the intellectual high ground as far as it concerns the notion of God. But this debate is a rather simple one. It's really a matter of semantics and logic. If God didn't exist, You would not be able to perceive his nonexistence because [he] does not exist.

Ken said:
Do you believe in Santa? Fairies? Unicorns? Can you perceive their nonexistence?

Harikrish said:
There existence or nonexistence does not depend on one accepting a crucified and tortured human sacrificed in the name of religion brought salvation to the Gentiles, Much less consciously celebrating Jesus's demise. But 2 billion Christians believe a dead Jewish rabbi died for their sins, That only dead Jews can forgive sins.
Most Jews would gladly sacrifice Santa, Fairies, Unicorns for the sins of the Christians and spare Jews from this morbid perversion that only dead Jews can forgive sins.

Ken said:
Interesting rant. Now care to answer my question? Or are you going to continue rambling on about some stuff that has nothing to do with the conversation at hand?
Harikrish
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10/26/2018 9:50:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
ken1122 wrote:
Athias said:
Atheists have always, In my experience, Been full of themselves claiming the intellectual high ground as far as it concerns the notion of God. But this debate is a rather simple one. It's really a matter of semantics and logic. If God didn't exist, You would not be able to perceive his nonexistence because [he] does not exist.

Ken said:
Do you believe in Santa? Fairies? Unicorns? Can you perceive their nonexistence?

Harikrish said:
Their existence or nonexistence does not depend on one accepting a crucified and tortured human sacrificed in the name of religion brought salvation to the Gentiles, Much less consciously celebrating Jesus's demise. But 2 billion Christians believe a dead Jewish rabbi died for their sins, That only dead Jews can forgive sins.
Most Jews would gladly sacrifice Santa, Fairies, Unicorns for the sins of the Christians and spare Jews from this morbid perversion that only dead Jews can forgive sins.

Ken said:
Interesting rant. Now care to answer my question? Or are you going to continue rambling on about some stuff that has nothing to do with the conversation at hand?

Your question was answered.
You asked: Do you believe in Santa? Fairies? Unicorns? Can you perceive their nonexistence?

Answer: Their existence or nonexistence does not depend on one accepting a crucified and tortured human sacrificed in the name of religion brought salvation to the Gentiles, Much less consciously celebrating Jesus's demise. But 2 billion Christians believe a dead Jewish rabbi died for their sins, That only dead Jews can forgive sins.

To believe in the existence of God, Christians are forced to accepts the sacrifice of Jesus who incidentally was crucified and not sacrificed by the Romans. But the same dependence does not exist when perceiving the existence or nonexistence of Santa, Fairies or Unicorns. Ones salvation, Damnation and place in heaven is not threatened by dismissing the latter.

You are equating belief in Santa, Fairies and Unicorns with that of God. But it is easier to dismiss them because Ones salvation, Damnation and place in heaven is not threatened by dismissing belief in Santa, Fairies and Unicorns.
Athias
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10/26/2018 10:38:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
ken1122 wrote:
That"s not what I asked. Again; can you perceive their non existence? (this question requires a yes or no answer)

I'm not in the business of repeating myself. Read your opponent's statements before attempting to construct a counterargument:

Athias wrote: I'm stating that it's impossible for you, Or anyone else for that matter, To know of that which does not exist. Existence outside of human perception is an epistemological insignificance.
Harikrish
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10/28/2018 9:43:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Athias wrote:
ken1122 wrote:
That"s not what I asked. Again; can you perceive their non existence? (this question requires a yes or no answer)

I'm not in the business of repeating myself. Read your opponent's statements before attempting to construct a counterargument:

Athias wrote: I'm stating that it's impossible for you, Or anyone else for that matter, To know of that which does not exist. Existence outside of human perception is an epistemological insignificance.

We are taught what exists and how it shapes our reality and also what does not exist which shapes our fantasies and is called fiction.
Athias
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10/28/2018 11:29:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Harikrish wrote:
We are taught what exists and how it shapes our reality and also what does not exist which shapes our fantasies and is called fiction.

You don't know that which does not exist. If it doesn't exist, It has no way of interacting with you; hence, You have no way of perceiving it. Imaginary is not the same as nonexistent. Look up the definition of to exist. It's a simple one. This debate is getting redundant.

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