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In Conclusion

Willows
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10/25/2018 1:01:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well, I put it out there for all to contribute to the discussion as to what homosexuals do (that is sinful) when it is the same as everyone else anyway.

There were several attempts at denying that Christians are homophobic and even trying to make out that homophobia is not hatred.

We have, Of course, Had the old, Well-worn diversionary excuse of "we don't hate them, We just hate what they do". . . . . . . Which is probably the greatest insult not only to the victims of such hatred but to anyone with half an intellect.

Then we had the "because it is written" (or said by God) excuse which is a complete red herring and invalid anyway since there are many other dictums that are "written" or "said by God" that are not adopted by Christians.

But, By far the most glaring and telling thing of all is that nobody could come up with what it is that homosexuals do that is so sinful. I was amused to see such feeble and cringe-worthy diversions such as "you are asking a leading question" and, Now wait for this one since it is a doozy. . . . . . . . . "it is an abomination". . . . . . . What the? It's a bit like saying Hitler was bad because he was not good.

So, It all goes back to what I have quite rightly and justifiably asserted. . . . That Christians are homophobic and prejudiced against homosexuals for no justifiable reason whatsoever, Therefore they are both ignorant and arrogant.

Organised religions have gotten away with harboring anti-social views for so long but in this day and age of civil rights and freedom of information, Unless religious organisations are prepared to undertake radical reforms, They will continue to slide into oblivion and intolerance by decent, Civilised society.
ken1122
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10/25/2018 2:06:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows said:
Well, I put it out there for all to contribute to the discussion as to what homosexuals do (that is sinful) when it is the same as everyone else anyway.

There were several attempts at denying that Christians are homophobic and even trying to make out that homophobia is not hatred.

Ken1122 said:
Are you saying all Christians are homophobic or just some of them? Because as I pointed out to you before, There are churches like

United Church of Christ

http://www. Ucc. Org/lgbt_issues_marriage-equality_index

Episcopal Church

https://www. Episcopalchurch. Org/page/lgbt-church

These churches are not only LGBT embracing, But they promote marriage equality and even encourage their members to fight for LGBT issues.
Certainly you aren't accusing those Christians of being homophobic are you?
Crozius_Arcanum
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10/25/2018 3:05:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Ken1122 said:
Are you saying all Christians are homophobic or just some of them? Because as I pointed out to you before, There are churches like

United Church of Christ

http://www. Ucc. Org/lgbt_issues_marriage-equality_index

Episcopal Church

https://www. Episcopalchurch. Org/page/lgbt-church

These churches are not only LGBT embracing, But they promote marriage equality and even encourage their members to fight for LGBT issues.
Certainly you aren't accusing those Christians of being homophobic are you?

This is merely semantics. All these mentioned groups are the vast minority in the ranks of organized religion, Particularly Christianity. The blanket statement that Willow made is not unfounded in any manner, And any concession he may make to your point is inconsequential to his greater argument. In truth, You are actually only contributing to his position further. Willow made the observant point that many Christian organizations make a habit of picking and choosing which verses and commands they happen to adhere too, Which invalidates any claim that scripture has ultimate influence on religious mandates. Rather, This particular prejudice is the product of gross ignorance.
Willows
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10/25/2018 3:16:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
ken1122 wrote:
Willows said:
Well, I put it out there for all to contribute to the discussion as to what homosexuals do (that is sinful) when it is the same as everyone else anyway.

There were several attempts at denying that Christians are homophobic and even trying to make out that homophobia is not hatred.


Ken1122 said:
Are you saying all Christians are homophobic or just some of them

I already covered that point and gave you a link to the thread.

One may equally ask a Christian, "Why do you accuse all homosexuals of. . . . . . . (whatever the heck the supposed sin is)?
Willows
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10/25/2018 3:19:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Crozius_Arcanum wrote:
Ken1122 said:
Are you saying all Christians are homophobic or just some of them? Because as I pointed out to you before, There are churches like

United Church of Christ

http://www. Ucc. Org/lgbt_issues_marriage-equality_index

Episcopal Church

https://www. Episcopalchurch. Org/page/lgbt-church

These churches are not only LGBT embracing, But they promote marriage equality and even encourage their members to fight for LGBT issues.
Certainly you aren't accusing those Christians of being homophobic are you?

This is merely semantics. All these mentioned groups are the vast minority in the ranks of organized religion, Particularly Christianity. The blanket statement that Willow made is not unfounded in any manner, And any concession he may make to your point is inconsequential to his greater argument. In truth, You are actually only contributing to his position further. Willow made the observant point that many Christian organizations make a habit of picking and choosing which verses and commands they happen to adhere too, Which invalidates any claim that scripture has ultimate influence on religious mandates. Rather, This particular prejudice is the product of gross ignorance.

Thanks for your clarification.
There are exceptions to every rule and I did clearly cover "guilty by association" in another thread.

Also, As mentioned in my last post. . . . . "One may equally ask a Christian, "Why do you accuse all homosexuals of. . . . . . . (whatever the heck the supposed sin is)? "
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,730
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10/25/2018 3:54:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Oh please, You think you can define 2. 3 Billion people based on a handful of Internet posts. The essence of bigotry is characterizing an entire group based on the negative actions of a few, Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror while you condemn others.

Not withstanding your whiny "research", And according the Pew Research Center's latest poll, 54% of US Christians believe "that homosexuality should be accepted, Rather than discouraged, By society".

You can't even say most Christians, At best you can say "some Christians".
It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
ken1122
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10/25/2018 4:14:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Crozius_Arcanum said:
This is merely semantics. All these mentioned groups are the vast minority in the ranks of organized religion, Particularly Christianity.

Ken said:
In a previous post, He mentioned ALL Christians are homophobic. This is what I was addressing. It is unfair and bigoted to accuse an entire group based on his observation of a few.
ken1122
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10/25/2018 4:19:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows said:
Well, I put it out there for all to contribute to the discussion as to what homosexuals do (that is sinful) when it is the same as everyone else anyway.

There were several attempts at denying that Christians are homophobic and even trying to make out that homophobia is not hatred.

Ken1122 said:
Are you saying all Christians are homophobic or just some of them

Willows said:
I already covered that point and gave you a link to the thread.

Ken said:
No; you provided a link that didn"t work. I told you it didn"t work and asked you to refute my position which you have refused to do.
Willows
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10/25/2018 9:17:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
ken1122 wrote:
Willows said:
Well, I put it out there for all to contribute to the discussion as to what homosexuals do (that is sinful) when it is the same as everyone else anyway.

There were several attempts at denying that Christians are homophobic and even trying to make out that homophobia is not hatred.


Ken1122 said:
Are you saying all Christians are homophobic or just some of them

Willows said:
I already covered that point and gave you a link to the thread.

Ken said:
No; you provided a link that didn"t work. I told you it didn"t work and asked you to refute my position which you have refused to do.

Come on. . . . Stop the phony procrastination and false accusations. . . . If the link doesn't work, Try the topic title.
For goodness bloody sake.
Willows
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10/25/2018 9:27:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Sidewalker wrote:
Oh please, You think you can define 2. 3 Billion people based on a handful of Internet posts. The essence of bigotry is characterizing an entire group based on the negative actions of a few, Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror while you condemn others.

Not withstanding your whiny "research", And according the Pew Research Center's latest poll, 54% of US Christians believe "that homosexuality should be accepted, Rather than discouraged, By society".

You can't even say most Christians, At best you can say "some Christians".

I have already explained my reasoning in the thread "Are theists guilty".
And what do polls show? . . . . Wasn't it interesting that they were completely wrong in predicting the result of the last presidential election. In other words, People will say one thing yet think something else.
And when we are talking about people being asked, "are you bigoted against homosexuals", Of course, We know what their answer will be.

It is telling that organized religions have been quite rightly been branded as homophobic and many have left Churches for that reason.
All Christians are bigoted and, Like all bigots, None of them is ever going to admit it.
ken1122
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10/25/2018 12:47:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows said:
Come on. . . . Stop the phony procrastination and false accusations. . . . If the link doesn't work, Try the topic title. For goodness bloody sake.

Ken said:
Why can't you just make your point, Or refute what I said instead of pointing to some link that is supposed to refute what I said?
ken1122
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10/25/2018 12:53:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows said:
It is telling that organized religions have been quite rightly been branded as homophobic :and many have left Churches for that reason.
All Christians are bigoted.

Ken said:
If ALL Christians are bigots, Why would some of them leave bigoted churches?
Harikrish
Posts: 28,386
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10/25/2018 6:43:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
ken1122 wrote:
Willows said:
Well, I put it out there for all to contribute to the discussion as to what homosexuals do (that is sinful) when it is the same as everyone else anyway.

There were several attempts at denying that Christians are homophobic and even trying to make out that homophobia is not hatred.


Ken1122 said:
Are you saying all Christians are homophobic or just some of them

Willows said:
I already covered that point and gave you a link to the thread.

Ken said:
No; you provided a link that didn"t work. I told you it didn"t work and asked you to refute my position which you have refused to do.

Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and transgender (LGBT) rights in Western Australia have seen significant progress since the beginning of the 21st century, With the Parliament of Western Australia passing comprehensive. . .
Australia is seeing a rise in sheep shagging and koala brothels.
Willows
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10/25/2018 8:40:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
ken1122 wrote:
Willows said:
It is telling that organized religions have been quite rightly been branded as homophobic :and many have left Churches for that reason.
All Christians are bigoted.

Ken said:
If ALL Christians are bigots, Why would some of them leave bigoted churches?

You are asking the question, Because, Once again, You have not read nor comprehended the thread which adequately answers your question.
Focus.

I have no doubt that some people will leave the Church and remain bigoted but (anecdotally) I know many who have left Churches in droves because of the draconian, Anti-social rules and do not want to be associated with an organisation or others who are bigoted.
Harikrish
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10/26/2018 1:06:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows wrote:
ken1122 wrote:
Willows said:
It is telling that organized religions have been quite rightly been branded as homophobic :and many have left Churches for that reason.
All Christians are bigoted.

Ken said:
If ALL Christians are bigots, Why would some of them leave bigoted churches?

You are asking the question, Because, Once again, You have not read nor comprehended the thread which adequately answers your question.
Focus.

I have no doubt that some people will leave the Church and remain bigoted but (anecdotally) I know many who have left Churches in droves because of the draconian, Anti-social rules and do not want to be associated with an organisation or others who are bigoted.

Are you confusing bigotry with buggery. Australia is seeing a rise in sheep shagging and koala brothels.
ken1122
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10/26/2018 1:31:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows said:
It is telling that organized religions have been quite rightly been branded as homophobic :and many have left Churches for that reason.
All Christians are bigoted.

Ken said:
If ALL Christians are bigots, Why would some of them leave bigoted churches?

You are asking the question, Because, Once again, You have not read nor comprehended the thread which adequately answers your question.
Focus.

I have no doubt that some people will leave the Church and remain bigoted but (anecdotally) I know many who have left Churches in droves because of the draconian, Anti-social rules and do not want to be associated with an organisation or others who are bigoted.

Then logic should tell you that those Christians who left Churches in droves because they don't want to be associated with an organization that is bigoted; that those Christians are not Bigoted!
Willows
Posts: 11,593
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10/26/2018 10:00:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
ken1122 wrote:
Willows said:
It is telling that organized religions have been quite rightly been branded as homophobic :and many have left Churches for that reason.
All Christians are bigoted.

Ken said:
If ALL Christians are bigots, Why would some of them leave bigoted churches?

You are asking the question, Because, Once again, You have not read nor comprehended the thread which adequately answers your question.
Focus.

I have no doubt that some people will leave the Church and remain bigoted but (anecdotally) I know many who have left Churches in droves because of the draconian, Anti-social rules and do not want to be associated with an organisation or others who are bigoted.


Then logic should tell you that those Christians who left Churches in droves because they don't want to be associated with an organization that is bigoted; that those Christians are not Bigoted!
Ummm, Er yesssss, In fact, That is what I said. . . . So what is your point?

Oh ok, I got it. . . . Still trying to be deceptive then eh?

it's all a matter of tense, Isn't it? As in past and present tense.

Are you with me now? (I thought not)

Well, "that those Christians are not bigoted"

"Those Christians" of course, Are no longer Christians, Are they?

Nice try, But you didn't get that trick past me either.
ken1122
Posts: 1,733
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10/27/2018 11:45:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows said:
It is telling that organized religions have been quite rightly been branded as homophobic :and many have left Churches for that reason.
All Christians are bigoted.

Ken said:
If ALL Christians are bigots, Why would some of them leave bigoted churches?

Willows said:
You are asking the question, Because, Once again, You have not read nor comprehended the thread which adequately answers your question.
Focus.

I have no doubt that some people will leave the Church and remain bigoted but (anecdotally) I know many who have left Churches in droves because of the draconian, Anti-social rules and do not want to be associated with an organisation or others who are bigoted.

Ken said:
Then logic should tell you that those Christians who left Churches in droves because they don't want to be associated with an organization that is bigoted; that those Christians are not Bigoted!

Willows said:
Ummm, Er yesssss, In fact, That is what I said. . . . So what is your point?

Ken said:
If that is what you"ve said; you"ve contradicted yourself. It is a contradiction to claim "A" and "not A" at the same time.

Willows said:
Oh ok, I got it. . . . Still trying to be deceptive then eh?

it"s all a matter of tense, Isn't it? As in past and present tense.

Are you with me now? (I thought not)

Well, "that those Christians are not bigoted"

Those Christians" of course, Are no longer Christians, Are they?
Ken said:
WRONG! Just because someone leaves a Church doesn"t mean they quit being Christian! Christians leave and join new Churches all the time! How do you think all of those denominations got formed? C"mon dude you can"t be this obtuse!

Willows said:
Nice try, But you didn't get that trick past me either.

Ken said:
Actually it seems that one went right over your head!
Willows
Posts: 11,593
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10/28/2018 12:17:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
ken1122 wrote:
Willows said:
It is telling that organized religions have been quite rightly been branded as homophobic :and many have left Churches for that reason.
All Christians are bigoted.

Ken said:
If ALL Christians are bigots, Why would some of them leave bigoted churches?

Willows said:
You are asking the question, Because, Once again, You have not read nor comprehended the thread which adequately answers your question.
Focus.

I have no doubt that some people will leave the Church and remain bigoted but (anecdotally) I know many who have left Churches in droves because of the draconian, Anti-social rules and do not want to be associated with an organisation or others who are bigoted.

Ken said:
Then logic should tell you that those Christians who left Churches in droves because they don't want to be associated with an organization that is bigoted; that those Christians are not Bigoted!

Willows said:
Ummm, Er yesssss, In fact, That is what I said. . . . So what is your point?

Ken said:
If that is what you"ve said; you"ve contradicted yourself. It is a contradiction to claim "A" and "not A" at the same time.

Willows said:
Oh ok, I got it. . . . Still trying to be deceptive then eh?

it"s all a matter of tense, Isn't it? As in past and present tense.

Are you with me now? (I thought not)

Well, "that those Christians are not bigoted"

Those Christians" of course, Are no longer Christians, Are they?
Ken said:
WRONG! Just because someone leaves a Church doesn"t mean they quit being Christian! Christians leave and join new Churches all the time! How do you think all of those denominations got formed? C"mon dude you can"t be this obtuse!

Yes, The Episcopalians left their Church behind because of its pro-gay stance and joined the mainstream bigoted denominations.
ken1122
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10/28/2018 4:31:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows said:
Oh ok, I got it. . . . Still trying to be deceptive then eh?

it"s all a matter of tense, Isn't it? As in past and present tense.

Are you with me now? (I thought not)

Well, "that those Christians are not bigoted"

Those Christians" of course, Are no longer Christians, Are they?

Ken said:
WRONG! Just because someone leaves a Church doesn"t mean they quit being Christian! Christians leave and join new Churches all the time! How do you think all of those denominations got formed? C"mon dude you can"t be this obtuse!

Willows said:
Yes, The Episcopalians left their Church behind because of its pro-gay stance and joined the mainstream bigoted denominations.

Ken said:
It doesn"t matter; those who left the Church, Or those who chose to stay; they are all Christians, So your claim that every single Christian is bigoted is wrong!
Harikrish
Posts: 28,386
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10/28/2018 7:00:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
ken1122 wrote:
Willows said:
Oh ok, I got it. . . . Still trying to be deceptive then eh?

it"s all a matter of tense, Isn't it? As in past and present tense.

Are you with me now? (I thought not)

Well, "that those Christians are not bigoted"

Those Christians" of course, Are no longer Christians, Are they?

Ken said:
WRONG! Just because someone leaves a Church doesn"t mean they quit being Christian! Christians leave and join new Churches all the time! How do you think all of those denominations got formed? C"mon dude you can"t be this obtuse!

Willows said:
Yes, The Episcopalians left their Church behind because of its pro-gay stance and joined the mainstream bigoted denominations.

Ken said:
It doesn"t matter; those who left the Church, Or those who chose to stay; they are all Christians, So your claim that every single Christian is bigoted is wrong!

Jesus was a racist and a bigot. He believed only dead Jews could forgive sins. He said he was only sent to save the lost sheep of Israel.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "

The Romans brought salvation to the Gentiles by crucifying Jesus and displacing Judaism the religion that Jesus followed and replaced it with the Roman Catholic Church.

So Christianity is really a counter dead weight to Jesus and his teachings. Now God can punish the Gentiles too.
ken1122
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10/28/2018 10:35:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Jesus was a racist and a bigot. He believed only dead Jews could forgive sins. He said he was only sent to save the lost sheep of Israel.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "

The Romans brought salvation to the Gentiles by crucifying Jesus and displacing Judaism the religion that Jesus followed and replaced it with the Roman Catholic Church.

So Christianity is really a counter dead weight to Jesus and his teachings. Now God can punish the Gentiles too.

This has nothing to do with anything I said. Do you wish to address the point I made? Or are you changing the subject in order to talk about Jesus.
anonthegreat
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10/28/2018 11:12:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Are you really interested in the answer to the question? You have made a conclusion based on theologians and religious. They don't understand your question or the answer because it requires a deep discussion of where we came from, Why we are here on earth, And where we are going based on the Bible and not based on the paradigm boxes of religions. The most rational answer requires one to create many logical presumptions about when the gender decision was made and who made it. Was it God that provided the body to us based on our choice of gender in our premortal life that gets changed when we came here? Or did we flare out of nowhere into the body, And God made the gender choice for us? The Bible is not messed up. It is the irrational theologians that messed up the Bible!
SingularityofLight
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10/28/2018 11:29:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There is irrationality in your statement, "It is the irrational theologians that messed up the Bible! , " because the original writers of the Bible were in a certain sense the first theologians.

Secondly, Would you please be plain about whether or not you think gays and lesbians are "living in sin" with regards to the Bible, Because the Bible is clearly anti-homosexual in the old testament and the new testament.
Willows
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10/29/2018 9:10:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
ken1122 wrote:
Willows said:
It is telling that organized religions have been quite rightly been branded as homophobic :and many have left Churches for that reason.
All Christians are bigoted.

Ken said:
If ALL Christians are bigots, Why would some of them leave bigoted churches?

You are asking the question, Because, Once again, You have not read nor comprehended the thread which adequately answers your question.
Focus.

I have no doubt that some people will leave the Church and remain bigoted but (anecdotally) I know many who have left Churches in droves because of the draconian, Anti-social rules and do not want to be associated with an organisation or others who are bigoted.


Then logic should tell you that those Christians who left Churches in droves because they don't want to be associated with an organization that is bigoted; that those Christians are not Bigoted!

They will not be labeled as being bigoted.

There lies the difference.
Harikrish
Posts: 28,386
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10/29/2018 8:34:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
ken1122 wrote:
Jesus was a racist and a bigot. He believed only dead Jews could forgive sins. He said he was only sent to save the lost sheep of Israel.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "

The Romans brought salvation to the Gentiles by crucifying Jesus and displacing Judaism the religion that Jesus followed and replaced it with the Roman Catholic Church.

So Christianity is really a counter dead weight to Jesus and his teachings. Now God can punish the Gentiles too.

This has nothing to do with anything I said. Do you wish to address the point I made? Or are you changing the subject in order to talk about Jesus.

You haven't made any points, You just copied my points from a previous post.
ken1122
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10/30/2018 12:17:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows said:
It is telling that organized religions have been quite rightly been branded as homophobic :and many have left Churches for that reason.
All Christians are bigoted.

Ken said:
If ALL Christians are bigots, Why would some of them leave bigoted churches?

Willows said: You are asking the question, Because, Once again, You have not read nor comprehended the thread which adequately answers your question.
Focus.

I have no doubt that some people will leave the Church and remain bigoted but (anecdotally) I know many who have left Churches in droves because of the draconian, Anti-social rules and do not want to be associated with an organisation or others who are bigoted.

Ken said:
Then logic should tell you that those Christians who left Churches in droves because they don't want to be associated with an organization that is bigoted; that those Christians are not Bigoted!

willows said:
They will not be labeled as being bigoted.

There lies the difference.

Ken said:
So a Christian from the United Church of Christ who has married same sex couples and encourages his congregation to fight politically for marriage equality; what makes this Christian a bigot and a homophobe?
ken1122
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10/30/2018 12:34:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Harikrish said:
Jesus was a racist and a bigot. He believed only dead Jews could forgive sins. He said he was only sent to save the lost sheep of Israel.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "

The Romans brought salvation to the Gentiles by crucifying Jesus and displacing Judaism the religion that Jesus followed and replaced it with the Roman Catholic Church.

So Christianity is really a counter dead weight to Jesus and his teachings. Now God can punish the Gentiles too.

Ken said:
This has nothing to do with anything I said. Do you wish to address the point I made? Or are you changing the subject in order to talk about Jesus.

Harikrish said:
You haven't made any points, You just copied my points from a previous post.

Ken said:
I have no idea what you have said to someone else, But I was having a conversation with someone else when you joined in talking about something else that had nothing to do with the conversation at hand. If the points I made were the same as some points you made previously to someone else; that is strictly a coincidence.
As far as your points that Jesus said this or did that; I don"t think you know what Jesus said or did, Nobody does; because he never wrote anything down. The only thing we know is what other people claimed/accused him of saying and doing.

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