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Gambling With Life

Willows
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11/7/2018 12:30:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Steve Jobs was a very intelligent, Enterprising man. He built an empire out of being able to tap into people's needs and find the means to meet those needs.

He was very wealthy and resourceful yet when he fell ill with cancer, Jobs went off on a "spiritual" tangent in resorting to alternative medicine to cure him.

He eventually succumbed to his illness and the consensus was that he would have lived much longer or even beaten cancer had he followed the proven, Properly researched path of conventional medicine.

Is there a similarity with following religion?

After all, Religion involves the worshipping of a creator and master of which there is no evidence whatsoever. It involves the sacrifice of ignoring anything that may conflict with the belief resulting in a very limited, Closed-door view of life.

Does this enforced restriction of what life offers slowly constrict religious followers to the point that they are dying without even knowing it?
SingularityofLight
Posts: 1,915
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11/7/2018 12:49:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows wrote:
Steve Jobs was a very intelligent, Enterprising man. He built an empire out of being able to tap into people's needs and find the means to meet those needs.

He was very wealthy and resourceful yet when he fell ill with cancer, Jobs went off on a "spiritual" tangent in resorting to alternative medicine to cure him.

He eventually succumbed to his illness and the consensus was that he would have lived much longer or even beaten cancer had he followed the proven, Properly researched path of conventional medicine.

Is there a similarity with following religion?

After all, Religion involves the worshipping of a creator and master of which there is no evidence whatsoever. It involves the sacrifice of ignoring anything that may conflict with the belief resulting in a very limited, Closed-door view of life.

Does this enforced restriction of what life offers slowly constrict religious followers to the point that they are dying without even knowing it?

There you go again speaking in generalities: "consensus was that he would have lived much longer or even beaten cancer had he followed the proven, Properly researched path of conventional medicine. " Whose "consensus? " - that of conventional medicine? "Properly researched? " - you mean in a laboratory setting? Get it through your head, Willows, Some of us hate "conventional. " We have been there and done it and found it wanting. Many of us "unconventionals" feel like the "conventional" path has helped destroy this planet. You could do with more "unconventional, " from how you present yourself.
Leaning
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11/7/2018 1:28:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well, If you believed that there is no life after death. And a religious person believed there was a life after death, And you proved to be right. Then yes, They would die without knowing it. In a sense. Hmm, Not sure why I phrased it as if you believed there is no life after death.
Willows
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11/8/2018 9:56:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
Steve Jobs was a very intelligent, Enterprising man. He built an empire out of being able to tap into people's needs and find the means to meet those needs.

He was very wealthy and resourceful yet when he fell ill with cancer, Jobs went off on a "spiritual" tangent in resorting to alternative medicine to cure him.

He eventually succumbed to his illness and the consensus was that he would have lived much longer or even beaten cancer had he followed the proven, Properly researched path of conventional medicine.

Is there a similarity with following religion?

After all, Religion involves the worshipping of a creator and master of which there is no evidence whatsoever. It involves the sacrifice of ignoring anything that may conflict with the belief resulting in a very limited, Closed-door view of life.

Does this enforced restriction of what life offers slowly constrict religious followers to the point that they are dying without even knowing it?

There you go again speaking in generalities: "consensus was that he would have lived much longer or even beaten cancer had he followed the proven, Properly researched path of conventional medicine. " Whose "consensus? " - that of conventional medicine? "Properly researched? " - you mean in a laboratory setting? Get it through your head, Willows, Some of us hate "conventional. " We have been there and done it and found it wanting. Many of us "unconventionals" feel like the "conventional" path has helped destroy this planet. You could do with more "unconventional, " from how you present yourself.

I think I have a fair mix of conventional v unconventional but I'm not one for being unconventional for the sake of being unconventional.

Now let's be reasonable here. Alternative medicine such as chiropractic, Naturopathy, And acupuncture are all bogus. . . None has absolutely any valid proof or evidence for their efficacy and in many cases are detrimental, Also none of them is registered as medical practitioners.

Some of us may hate conventional medical practitioners but that is just tough titties since there is no better medical treatment available.

And just because you perceive that a conventional medical practice doesn't work, Is that any reason to resort to something that is proven not to work?

That is the mistake Jobs made, In fact in his case, He went straight to the alternative therapies before going to conventional medicine. Naturally, It wasn't working and before he sought proper treatment, In his own words, "It was too late".
Willows
Posts: 11,607
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11/8/2018 10:16:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Leaning wrote:
Well, If you believed that there is no life after death. And a religious person believed there was a life after death, And you proved to be right. Then yes, They would die without knowing it. In a sense. Hmm, Not sure why I phrased it as if you believed there is no life after death.

I wasn't referring to the afterlife.

What I was getting at is that theists do things in accordance with their faith that are detrimental to their well being, And in some cases, They are killing themselves.

Two extreme examples are Christian cults who refuse medical treatment and place children on fasting diets because they believe God told them so. . . There have been many reported cases here in Australia of child neglect and even deaths associated with such practices.

And of course, There are the Jehovah's Witnesses who have the bizarre belief of refusing life-saving blood transfusions.

And then there was the spectacular yet tragic incident when Mark Saylor (look it up) with his family (all devout Christians) who had a technical problem with his car. He did not have the presence of mind to rectify the problem before the car crashed at high speed. . . All perished. His last words, (which were recorded) were "Hold on and pray". Needless to say, His remedy did not work.
Leaning
Posts: 2,563
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11/8/2018 2:27:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
True, But couldn't the first two examples be minorities in the overall demographic of Christians? I think I've heard of snake handling Christians before, But I would hardly think the majority of Christians would say what a great idea to handle poisonous snakes.

I was thinking about this earlier with the preacher thread and all. I don't pay too close attention to the news, But I do hear of parents being lawfully charged for the neglect of their children when they cause/ are causing obvious to everyone danger or death. Example a kid has appendicitis, And there's a perfectly good hospital next door willing to pay for the operation. Parent refuses because religion, Kid dies. Wouldn't he usually get arrested?

For the car, It would have been more practical for him to keep trying to do something, Perhaps he was car dumb? Or naturally panicking in a fast paced emergency? If there was an option that he was aware of that he could do something to make the survival of his family and himself more probable, I'd imagine he would try it, But when overwhelmed by the situation, He thought I assume "Oh no! What can I do? AHHHH! I can't think of what I should do with the car! All I can think to do is for everyone to brace for impact! " Then he thought about the spiritual thing he looked to for strength, Truth, Or whatnot and invoked it to try to help give comfort, Hope, Courage to his family and himself.

People have beliefs. Atheist or theist, And this is going to impact then positively at times, Negatively at others.
SingularityofLight
Posts: 1,915
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11/8/2018 4:11:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows wrote:
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
Steve Jobs was a very intelligent, Enterprising man. He built an empire out of being able to tap into people's needs and find the means to meet those needs.

He was very wealthy and resourceful yet when he fell ill with cancer, Jobs went off on a "spiritual" tangent in resorting to alternative medicine to cure him.

He eventually succumbed to his illness and the consensus was that he would have lived much longer or even beaten cancer had he followed the proven, Properly researched path of conventional medicine.

Is there a similarity with following religion?

After all, Religion involves the worshipping of a creator and master of which there is no evidence whatsoever. It involves the sacrifice of ignoring anything that may conflict with the belief resulting in a very limited, Closed-door view of life.

Does this enforced restriction of what life offers slowly constrict religious followers to the point that they are dying without even knowing it?

There you go again speaking in generalities: "consensus was that he would have lived much longer or even beaten cancer had he followed the proven, Properly researched path of conventional medicine. " Whose "consensus? " - that of conventional medicine? "Properly researched? " - you mean in a laboratory setting? Get it through your head, Willows, Some of us hate "conventional. " We have been there and done it and found it wanting. Many of us "unconventionals" feel like the "conventional" path has helped destroy this planet. You could do with more "unconventional, " from how you present yourself.

I think I have a fair mix of conventional v unconventional but I'm not one for being unconventional for the sake of being unconventional.

Now let's be reasonable here. Alternative medicine such as chiropractic, Naturopathy, And acupuncture are all bogus. . . None has absolutely any valid proof or evidence for their efficacy and in many cases are detrimental, Also none of them is registered as medical practitioners.

Some of us may hate conventional medical practitioners but that is just tough titties since there is no better medical treatment available.

And just because you perceive that a conventional medical practice doesn't work, Is that any reason to resort to something that is proven not to work?

That is the mistake Jobs made, In fact in his case, He went straight to the alternative therapies before going to conventional medicine. Naturally, It wasn't working and before he sought proper treatment, In his own words, "It was too late".

Let's be honest, Here, Willows. Jobs probably would have died from his pancreatic cancer whether he had conventional treatment or not since 95 percent of people with pancreatic cancer die from it: it is one of the most deadly cancers out there.

My family has been helped by acupuncturists: my sister had problems with her knee and was successfully treated by an acupuncturist. My family's health has greatly improved since taking nutrition advice from a naturopathic doctor. We haven't been sick or gone to a medical doctor in over a decade. I have been personally told by a person how they were healed of a horrid desease by a touch healer. I believed her because she seemed completely sincere.

We go with what works for us, And unconventional medicine has worked for us. Stop blaming things you are ignorant of.
Willows
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11/9/2018 8:57:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
Steve Jobs was a very intelligent, Enterprising man. He built an empire out of being able to tap into people's needs and find the means to meet those needs.

He was very wealthy and resourceful yet when he fell ill with cancer, Jobs went off on a "spiritual" tangent in resorting to alternative medicine to cure him.

He eventually succumbed to his illness and the consensus was that he would have lived much longer or even beaten cancer had he followed the proven, Properly researched path of conventional medicine.

Is there a similarity with following religion?

After all, Religion involves the worshipping of a creator and master of which there is no evidence whatsoever. It involves the sacrifice of ignoring anything that may conflict with the belief resulting in a very limited, Closed-door view of life.

Does this enforced restriction of what life offers slowly constrict religious followers to the point that they are dying without even knowing it?

There you go again speaking in generalities: "consensus was that he would have lived much longer or even beaten cancer had he followed the proven, Properly researched path of conventional medicine. " Whose "consensus? " - that of conventional medicine? "Properly researched? " - you mean in a laboratory setting? Get it through your head, Willows, Some of us hate "conventional. " We have been there and done it and found it wanting. Many of us "unconventionals" feel like the "conventional" path has helped destroy this planet. You could do with more "unconventional, " from how you present yourself.

I think I have a fair mix of conventional v unconventional but I'm not one for being unconventional for the sake of being unconventional.

Now let's be reasonable here. Alternative medicine such as chiropractic, Naturopathy, And acupuncture are all bogus. . . None has absolutely any valid proof or evidence for their efficacy and in many cases are detrimental, Also none of them is registered as medical practitioners.

Some of us may hate conventional medical practitioners but that is just tough titties since there is no better medical treatment available.

And just because you perceive that a conventional medical practice doesn't work, Is that any reason to resort to something that is proven not to work?

That is the mistake Jobs made, In fact in his case, He went straight to the alternative therapies before going to conventional medicine. Naturally, It wasn't working and before he sought proper treatment, In his own words, "It was too late".

Let's be honest, Here, Willows. Jobs probably would have died from his pancreatic cancer whether he had conventional treatment or not since 95 percent of people with pancreatic cancer die from it: it is one of the most deadly cancers out there.

My family has been helped by acupuncturists: my sister had problems with her knee and was successfully treated by an acupuncturist. My family's health has greatly improved since taking nutrition advice from a naturopathic doctor. We haven't been sick or gone to a medical doctor in over a decade. I have been personally told by a person how they were healed of a horrid desease by a touch healer. I believed her because she seemed completely sincere.

We go with what works for us, And unconventional medicine has worked for us. Stop blaming things you are ignorant of.

I have no doubt that people are sincere about "being cured" by natural therapies.
However, I will just state that many people claim to have been cured by placebos and that is in effect what natural therapies do to those who want to believe.

Also, Consider a patient who receives conventional therapy for an ailment. . . . Nothing happens. Then the patient goes to say, An acupuncturist then the ailment is cured. It is easy to attribute the healing to the acupuncturist if you are persuaded that way. But how do you know it wasn't from the conventional therapy or that the condition healed through the body's natural ability?
You don't.
What we do know is that acupuncture has absolutely no proof of its efficacy and there is no such thing as "pressure points".
Just like religious preachers, Natural therapists are charlatans who have been around since time immemorial and always will so long as they have a captive audience.

Nobody, But nobody has ever been cured by any natural therapist.
SingularityofLight
Posts: 1,915
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11/9/2018 12:31:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows wrote:
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
Steve Jobs was a very intelligent, Enterprising man. He built an empire out of being able to tap into people's needs and find the means to meet those needs.

He was very wealthy and resourceful yet when he fell ill with cancer, Jobs went off on a "spiritual" tangent in resorting to alternative medicine to cure him.

He eventually succumbed to his illness and the consensus was that he would have lived much longer or even beaten cancer had he followed the proven, Properly researched path of conventional medicine.

Is there a similarity with following religion?

After all, Religion involves the worshipping of a creator and master of which there is no evidence whatsoever. It involves the sacrifice of ignoring anything that may conflict with the belief resulting in a very limited, Closed-door view of life.

Does this enforced restriction of what life offers slowly constrict religious followers to the point that they are dying without even knowing it?

There you go again speaking in generalities: "consensus was that he would have lived much longer or even beaten cancer had he followed the proven, Properly researched path of conventional medicine. " Whose "consensus? " - that of conventional medicine? "Properly researched? " - you mean in a laboratory setting? Get it through your head, Willows, Some of us hate "conventional. " We have been there and done it and found it wanting. Many of us "unconventionals" feel like the "conventional" path has helped destroy this planet. You could do with more "unconventional, " from how you present yourself.

I think I have a fair mix of conventional v unconventional but I'm not one for being unconventional for the sake of being unconventional.

Now let's be reasonable here. Alternative medicine such as chiropractic, Naturopathy, And acupuncture are all bogus. . . None has absolutely any valid proof or evidence for their efficacy and in many cases are detrimental, Also none of them is registered as medical practitioners.

Some of us may hate conventional medical practitioners but that is just tough titties since there is no better medical treatment available.

And just because you perceive that a conventional medical practice doesn't work, Is that any reason to resort to something that is proven not to work?

That is the mistake Jobs made, In fact in his case, He went straight to the alternative therapies before going to conventional medicine. Naturally, It wasn't working and before he sought proper treatment, In his own words, "It was too late".

Let's be honest, Here, Willows. Jobs probably would have died from his pancreatic cancer whether he had conventional treatment or not since 95 percent of people with pancreatic cancer die from it: it is one of the most deadly cancers out there.

My family has been helped by acupuncturists: my sister had problems with her knee and was successfully treated by an acupuncturist. My family's health has greatly improved since taking nutrition advice from a naturopathic doctor. We haven't been sick or gone to a medical doctor in over a decade. I have been personally told by a person how they were healed of a horrid desease by a touch healer. I believed her because she seemed completely sincere.

We go with what works for us, And unconventional medicine has worked for us. Stop blaming things you are ignorant of.

I have no doubt that people are sincere about "being cured" by natural therapies.
However, I will just state that many people claim to have been cured by placebos and that is in effect what natural therapies do to those who want to believe.

Also, Consider a patient who receives conventional therapy for an ailment. . . . Nothing happens. Then the patient goes to say, An acupuncturist then the ailment is cured. It is easy to attribute the healing to the acupuncturist if you are persuaded that way. But how do you know it wasn't from the conventional therapy or that the condition healed through the body's natural ability?
You don't.
What we do know is that acupuncture has absolutely no proof of its efficacy and there is no such thing as "pressure points".
Just like religious preachers, Natural therapists are charlatans who have been around since time immemorial and always will so long as they have a captive audience.

Nobody, But nobody has ever been cured by any natural therapist.

There you go again making extreme statements "Natural therapists are charlatans, " "Nobody, But nobody has ever been cured by any natural therapist. " You make extreme, Unjustifiable statements just like you do with scientist's view of the spiritual realm. The majority of scientists will tell you that there is no way to prove either the non-existence or existence of a spiritual realm. The same holds here: no one is able to prove or disprove the existence of meridian points on the body. I personally believe my sister when she told me it helped her. Also, There is much proven data to indicate that a more healthy diet does contribute to better health, An area that natural therapist's often concentrate on. To associate natural therapists with religious preachers borders on the unconscionable. Natural therapists have absolutely no connection whatsoever to religious leaders. Just like there are bad conventional doctors, There are bad natural therapists. Just like their are good conventional doctors, There are good natural therapists.

I believe someone who is so closed-minded that they can not entertain the possibility that a healthier diet could save them from sickness is gambling with their life.
Leaning
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11/9/2018 1:29:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Homeopathy, 'if that's what you're talking about doesn't really have a good rap with people. Though I don't think anyone could deny that a healthy diet is better for a person than an unhealthy diet. A guy who eats only pizza, Soda, And candy is probably going to feel depressed, Not be able to build muscle easy and so forth. Compared to a guy eating fruit, Vegetables, Meat, Fish, Grain, Or whatever a healthy diet is.
SingularityofLight
Posts: 1,915
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11/9/2018 1:35:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Leaning wrote:
Homeopathy, 'if that's what you're talking about doesn't really have a good rap with people. Though I don't think anyone could deny that a healthy diet is better for a person than an unhealthy diet. A guy who eats only pizza, Soda, And candy is probably going to feel depressed, Not be able to build muscle easy and so forth. Compared to a guy eating fruit, Vegetables, Meat, Fish, Grain, Or whatever a healthy diet is.

I haven't had personal success with Homepathy, So no that wasn't what I was referring to. Some people, However, Swear by it. Most alternative therapies even if they aren't efficacious don't do any harm like organized religion does and shouldn't be the object of censorship. Many alternative therapies like acupuncture and touch healing claim to alter the spiritual bodies of an individual. Although they don't make sense to people who don't believe in a spiritual component of life, They make a lot of sense to people who do.
Willows
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11/9/2018 8:58:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
SingularityofLight wrote:
Leaning wrote:
Homeopathy, 'if that's what you're talking about doesn't really have a good rap with people. Though I don't think anyone could deny that a healthy diet is better for a person than an unhealthy diet. A guy who eats only pizza, Soda, And candy is probably going to feel depressed, Not be able to build muscle easy and so forth. Compared to a guy eating fruit, Vegetables, Meat, Fish, Grain, Or whatever a healthy diet is.

I haven't had personal success with Homepathy, So no that wasn't what I was referring to. Some people, However, Swear by it. Most alternative therapies even if they aren't efficacious don't do any harm like organized religion does and shouldn't be the object of censorship. Many alternative therapies like acupuncture and touch healing claim to alter the spiritual bodies of an individual. Although they don't make sense to people who don't believe in a spiritual component of life, They make a lot of sense to people who do.

. . . And don't work, Except for the placebo effect so, In some small degree there is some benefit for those who believe it. But then, If you believe that a $10 copper bracelet does the same thing, It will cost you a lot less.

There have been many detrimental effects of natural medicine. Naturopathic remedies contain concentrated amounts of active ingredients and have slowly poisoned and caused organ damage in many patients. In Australia, Naturopathic products have been banned from pharmacies.

There have been many reported cases of Chiropractic patients getting strokes and, In some cases, Death.

Yes, There are accidents and death with conventional medicine but nowadays, There are few and the procedures are calculated, Proven and professional. In all cases of natural medicine, They are not calculated, Unproven and certainly not professional. . . . . . Such outcomes are completely unnecessary.
SingularityofLight
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11/9/2018 10:19:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows wrote:
SingularityofLight wrote:
Leaning wrote:
Homeopathy, 'if that's what you're talking about doesn't really have a good rap with people. Though I don't think anyone could deny that a healthy diet is better for a person than an unhealthy diet. A guy who eats only pizza, Soda, And candy is probably going to feel depressed, Not be able to build muscle easy and so forth. Compared to a guy eating fruit, Vegetables, Meat, Fish, Grain, Or whatever a healthy diet is.

I haven't had personal success with Homepathy, So no that wasn't what I was referring to. Some people, However, Swear by it. Most alternative therapies even if they aren't efficacious don't do any harm like organized religion does and shouldn't be the object of censorship. Many alternative therapies like acupuncture and touch healing claim to alter the spiritual bodies of an individual. Although they don't make sense to people who don't believe in a spiritual component of life, They make a lot of sense to people who do.

. . . And don't work, Except for the placebo effect so, In some small degree there is some benefit for those who believe it. But then, If you believe that a $10 copper bracelet does the same thing, It will cost you a lot less.

There have been many detrimental effects of natural medicine. Naturopathic remedies contain concentrated amounts of active ingredients and have slowly poisoned and caused organ damage in many patients. In Australia, Naturopathic products have been banned from pharmacies.

There have been many reported cases of Chiropractic patients getting strokes and, In some cases, Death.

Yes, There are accidents and death with conventional medicine but nowadays, There are few and the procedures are calculated, Proven and professional. In all cases of natural medicine, They are not calculated, Unproven and certainly not professional. . . . . . Such outcomes are completely unnecessary.

Conventional medicine is lousy and treats the symptoms, Often very unsatisfactorily, Not the disease. There are many natural therapists that use diet wisdom, Based on research studies that indicate certain foods and herbs are very beneficial for certain diseases. Many people have improved their healthy greatly from such advice, Including my spouse and I. Obviously there are going to be lousy natural therapists, But there many natural therapists that work wonders with people's health and do not use off-the-wall toxic substances to "treat" illnesses. I agree that one has to be extra careful in seeking out natural therapists since there is so much ignorant disinformation and scam artists around. But if a person seeks out the good ones, They are unequaled in how much they can help a person become healthier.
Willows
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11/10/2018 11:42:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
SingularityofLight wrote:
Leaning wrote:
Homeopathy, 'if that's what you're talking about doesn't really have a good rap with people. Though I don't think anyone could deny that a healthy diet is better for a person than an unhealthy diet. A guy who eats only pizza, Soda, And candy is probably going to feel depressed, Not be able to build muscle easy and so forth. Compared to a guy eating fruit, Vegetables, Meat, Fish, Grain, Or whatever a healthy diet is.

I haven't had personal success with Homepathy, So no that wasn't what I was referring to. Some people, However, Swear by it. Most alternative therapies even if they aren't efficacious don't do any harm like organized religion does and shouldn't be the object of censorship. Many alternative therapies like acupuncture and touch healing claim to alter the spiritual bodies of an individual. Although they don't make sense to people who don't believe in a spiritual component of life, They make a lot of sense to people who do.

. . . And don't work, Except for the placebo effect so, In some small degree there is some benefit for those who believe it. But then, If you believe that a $10 copper bracelet does the same thing, It will cost you a lot less.

There have been many detrimental effects of natural medicine. Naturopathic remedies contain concentrated amounts of active ingredients and have slowly poisoned and caused organ damage in many patients. In Australia, Naturopathic products have been banned from pharmacies.

There have been many reported cases of Chiropractic patients getting strokes and, In some cases, Death.

Yes, There are accidents and death with conventional medicine but nowadays, There are few and the procedures are calculated, Proven and professional. In all cases of natural medicine, They are not calculated, Unproven and certainly not professional. . . . . . Such outcomes are completely unnecessary.

Conventional medicine is lousy and treats the symptoms, Often very unsatisfactorily, Not the disease. There are many natural therapists that use diet wisdom, Based on research studies that indicate certain foods and herbs are very beneficial for certain diseases. Many people have improved their healthy greatly from such advice, Including my spouse and I. Obviously there are going to be lousy natural therapists, But there many natural therapists that work wonders with people's health and do not use off-the-wall toxic substances to "treat" illnesses. I agree that one has to be extra careful in seeking out natural therapists since there is so much ignorant disinformation and scam artists around. But if a person seeks out the good ones, They are unequaled in how much they can help a person become healthier.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that prevention is far better than cure and my partner and I are sticklers for eating a varied diet low in fats, Sugar, And salt, And I am weaning her off her addiction to meat. My oldest daughter is a vegan and has taught me a few things.

But when it comes to the crunch and you have been diagnosed with a life-threatening disease or a shark has just had a good go at one of your limbs, I reckon it's time to see one of them conventional medics.
SingularityofLight
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11/10/2018 2:10:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows wrote:
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
SingularityofLight wrote:
Leaning wrote:
Homeopathy, 'if that's what you're talking about doesn't really have a good rap with people. Though I don't think anyone could deny that a healthy diet is better for a person than an unhealthy diet. A guy who eats only pizza, Soda, And candy is probably going to feel depressed, Not be able to build muscle easy and so forth. Compared to a guy eating fruit, Vegetables, Meat, Fish, Grain, Or whatever a healthy diet is.

I haven't had personal success with Homepathy, So no that wasn't what I was referring to. Some people, However, Swear by it. Most alternative therapies even if they aren't efficacious don't do any harm like organized religion does and shouldn't be the object of censorship. Many alternative therapies like acupuncture and touch healing claim to alter the spiritual bodies of an individual. Although they don't make sense to people who don't believe in a spiritual component of life, They make a lot of sense to people who do.

. . . And don't work, Except for the placebo effect so, In some small degree there is some benefit for those who believe it. But then, If you believe that a $10 copper bracelet does the same thing, It will cost you a lot less.

There have been many detrimental effects of natural medicine. Naturopathic remedies contain concentrated amounts of active ingredients and have slowly poisoned and caused organ damage in many patients. In Australia, Naturopathic products have been banned from pharmacies.

There have been many reported cases of Chiropractic patients getting strokes and, In some cases, Death.

Yes, There are accidents and death with conventional medicine but nowadays, There are few and the procedures are calculated, Proven and professional. In all cases of natural medicine, They are not calculated, Unproven and certainly not professional. . . . . . Such outcomes are completely unnecessary.

Conventional medicine is lousy and treats the symptoms, Often very unsatisfactorily, Not the disease. There are many natural therapists that use diet wisdom, Based on research studies that indicate certain foods and herbs are very beneficial for certain diseases. Many people have improved their healthy greatly from such advice, Including my spouse and I. Obviously there are going to be lousy natural therapists, But there many natural therapists that work wonders with people's health and do not use off-the-wall toxic substances to "treat" illnesses. I agree that one has to be extra careful in seeking out natural therapists since there is so much ignorant disinformation and scam artists around. But if a person seeks out the good ones, They are unequaled in how much they can help a person become healthier.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that prevention is far better than cure and my partner and I are sticklers for eating a varied diet low in fats, Sugar, And salt, And I am weaning her off her addiction to meat. My oldest daughter is a vegan and has taught me a few things.

But when it comes to the crunch and you have been diagnosed with a life-threatening disease or a shark has just had a good go at one of your limbs, I reckon it's time to see one of them conventional medics.

A varied diet is good. But a moderate amount of healthy fats and salt is necessary for good health. You might want to do some research on that one. We don't eat a lot of meat, But we do have wild salmon with the skin and bones, Organic eggs, Ground flax (for the omega oils), Organic homemade kefir and other things that gives us healthy sources of fats and omegas. You have been lied to by conventional medicine about the role of healthy fats in our diets.
SingularityofLight
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11/10/2018 3:25:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
dsjpk5 wrote Maybe you could offer any evidence whatsoever?

dsjpk5,

I generally don't like to do the hard work for skeptics that do nothing but tear down unconventional views based on their prejudices. It was not easy to post these links because this site is completely broken. If you are a skeptic, Do the research yourself next time rather than just being a naysayer. This site no longer allows links. I wanted to post a lot more links but they were too tedious to translate. I know you probably won't bother translating these links, But here goes. These are just a few current research studies which invalidate the conventional rhetoric concerning moderate amounts of healthy, Unrefined, Unprocessed saturated and unsaturated fats in our diets.

Preceed all of these by world wide web.

(period) ncbi (period) nlm (period) nih (period) gov (foward slash) pubmed (slash) (two)(six)(zero)(one)(six)(eight)(six)(nine)

(period) ncbi (period) nlm (period) nih (period) gov (forward slash) pmc (forward slash) articles (forward slash) PMC(two)(nine)(seven)(four)(two)(zero)(zero)

(period) ncbi (period) nlm (period) nih (period) gov (forward slash) pubmed (foward slash) (two)(nine)(four)(nine)(four)(four)(eight)(seven)

These are very conservative references. Many unconventional health practitioners have known for years the benefits of a moderate amounts of unprocessed/unrefined unsaturated and saturated fats in our diets, Because they have seen the benefits in their own lives and in the lives of their patients.
dsjpk5
Posts: 5,193
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11/11/2018 3:59:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I was referring to Willows

dsjpk5 wrote Maybe you could offer any evidence whatsoever?

dsjpk5,

I generally don't like to do the hard work for skeptics that do nothing but tear down unconventional views based on their prejudices. It was not easy to post these links because this site is completely broken. If you are a skeptic, Do the research yourself next time rather than just being a naysayer. This site no longer allows links. I wanted to post a lot more links but they were too tedious to translate. I know you probably won't bother translating these links, But here goes. These are just a few current research studies which invalidate the conventional rhetoric concerning moderate amounts of healthy, Unrefined, Unprocessed saturated and unsaturated fats in our diets.

Preceed all of these by world wide web.

(period) ncbi (period) nlm (period) nih (period) gov (foward slash) pubmed (slash) (two)(six)(zero)(one)(six)(eight)(six)(nine)

(period) ncbi (period) nlm (period) nih (period) gov (forward slash) pmc (forward slash) articles (forward slash) PMC(two)(nine)(seven)(four)(two)(zero)(zero)

(period) ncbi (period) nlm (period) nih (period) gov (forward slash) pubmed (foward slash) (two)(nine)(four)(nine)(four)(four)(eight)(seven)

These are very conservative references. Many unconventional health practitioners have known for years the benefits of a moderate amounts of unprocessed/unrefined unsaturated and saturated fats in our diets, Because they have seen the benefits in their own lives and in the lives of their patients.
SingularityofLight
Posts: 1,915
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11/11/2018 4:02:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
dsjpk5 wrote:
I was referring to Willows

dsjpk5 wrote Maybe you could offer any evidence whatsoever?

dsjpk5,

I generally don't like to do the hard work for skeptics that do nothing but tear down unconventional views based on their prejudices. It was not easy to post these links because this site is completely broken. If you are a skeptic, Do the research yourself next time rather than just being a naysayer. This site no longer allows links. I wanted to post a lot more links but they were too tedious to translate. I know you probably won't bother translating these links, But here goes. These are just a few current research studies which invalidate the conventional rhetoric concerning moderate amounts of healthy, Unrefined, Unprocessed saturated and unsaturated fats in our diets.

Preceed all of these by world wide web.

(period) ncbi (period) nlm (period) nih (period) gov (foward slash) pubmed (slash) (two)(six)(zero)(one)(six)(eight)(six)(nine)

(period) ncbi (period) nlm (period) nih (period) gov (forward slash) pmc (forward slash) articles (forward slash) PMC(two)(nine)(seven)(four)(two)(zero)(zero)

(period) ncbi (period) nlm (period) nih (period) gov (forward slash) pubmed (foward slash) (two)(nine)(four)(nine)(four)(four)(eight)(seven)

These are very conservative references. Many unconventional health practitioners have known for years the benefits of a moderate amounts of unprocessed/unrefined unsaturated and saturated fats in our diets, Because they have seen the benefits in their own lives and in the lives of their patients.

Sorry.
dsjpk5
Posts: 5,193
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11/13/2018 3:11:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Maybe you could offer any evidence whatsoever?

Evidence whatsoever of what?

Or is this going to be one of those fruitless goose chases of "prove (whatever it is) isn't so"?

Evidence of religion causing those things.

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