Total Posts:13|Showing Posts:1-12
Jump to topic:

Should We Respect Religious Preachers?

Willows
Posts: 11,589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/7/2018 12:46:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I suppose that professional public servants such as lawyers, Accountants, Doctors, And politicians have all, At times, Had more than their share of being labelled charlatans, Con artists, And outright criminals, Usually by those who have experienced an unfavourable result. Such allegations, Of course, Are usually unjustified and these professionals all act under a strict code of conduct and high standard of ethics.

But how about religious preachers?

Can the labels of charlatans, Con artists, And criminals frequently levelled against members of the cloth be justified?

I don't wish to preach or shove opinions down everyone's throats so I think it only fair to let the reader ask themselves these questions and ponder the following facts.

The same principles apply whether it be preachers of Judaism or Islam or Christianity.

Do preachers lie?
Facts:
*There is no valid evidence whatsoever to support the notion that God exists.
*There is overwhelming, Thoroughly tested scientific evidence that irrefutably rules out any notion of life having been created.
*There is absolutely no proof of the existence of Heaven and or Hell.

Are preachers charlatans?
Facts:
*The definition of a charlatan is "a person claiming to have a special knowledge or skill".
*Preachers claim to communicate wishes or requests by followers to God through prayer.

Are preachers con artists?
Facts:
*The definition of a con artist is "a person who cheats or tricks others by persuading them to believe in something that isn't true".
*Preachers regularly speak of words spoken by God.
*Preachers regularly speak of punishment of living an eternally in Hell for those who do not believe his word.

Are preachers criminals?
Facts:
*In most western civilised countries, Anti-vilification laws make it an offence to incite hatred against minority groups such as homosexuals.
*Preachers regularly promote the shunning of homosexuals.
*In most western civilised countries there are laws relating to the abuse of children.
*Preachers regularly lecture children on being "saved" (from eternal damnation if they fail to believe in what they are told).
SingularityofLight
Posts: 1,915
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/7/2018 1:07:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows wrote:
I suppose that professional public servants such as lawyers, Accountants, Doctors, And politicians have all, At times, Had more than their share of being labelled charlatans, Con artists, And outright criminals, Usually by those who have experienced an unfavourable result. Such allegations, Of course, Are usually unjustified and these professionals all act under a strict code of conduct and high standard of ethics.

But how about religious preachers?

Can the labels of charlatans, Con artists, And criminals frequently levelled against members of the cloth be justified?

I don't wish to preach or shove opinions down everyone's throats so I think it only fair to let the reader ask themselves these questions and ponder the following facts.

The same principles apply whether it be preachers of Judaism or Islam or Christianity.

Do preachers lie?
Facts:
*There is no valid evidence whatsoever to support the notion that God exists.
*There is overwhelming, Thoroughly tested scientific evidence that irrefutably rules out any notion of life having been created.
*There is absolutely no proof of the existence of Heaven and or Hell.

Are preachers charlatans?
Facts:
*The definition of a charlatan is "a person claiming to have a special knowledge or skill".
*Preachers claim to communicate wishes or requests by followers to God through prayer.

Are preachers con artists?
Facts:
*The definition of a con artist is "a person who cheats or tricks others by persuading them to believe in something that isn't true".
*Preachers regularly speak of words spoken by God.
*Preachers regularly speak of punishment of living an eternally in Hell for those who do not believe his word.

Are preachers criminals?
Facts:
*In most western civilised countries, Anti-vilification laws make it an offence to incite hatred against minority groups such as homosexuals.
*Preachers regularly promote the shunning of homosexuals.
*In most western civilised countries there are laws relating to the abuse of children.
*Preachers regularly lecture children on being "saved" (from eternal damnation if they fail to believe in what they are told).

Yes, But not for the reasons you put forth. Science does not "irrefutable rule out" that life has not been created. You need more science education. Preachers are liars because they present the issues presented by an ancient corrupt document as "facts, " not beliefs.

Yes, And I agree with the reasons.

Yes, And I agree with the reasons.

Yes, And I agree with the reasons. I would add that the Bible which the preachers recommend that everyone read also condones slavery, Racism, Sexism, And is defense denying. These concepts are criminal. Words matter.
SingularityofLight
Posts: 1,915
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/7/2018 2:03:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
I suppose that professional public servants such as lawyers, Accountants, Doctors, And politicians have all, At times, Had more than their share of being labelled charlatans, Con artists, And outright criminals, Usually by those who have experienced an unfavourable result. Such allegations, Of course, Are usually unjustified and these professionals all act under a strict code of conduct and high standard of ethics.

But how about religious preachers?

Can the labels of charlatans, Con artists, And criminals frequently levelled against members of the cloth be justified?

I don't wish to preach or shove opinions down everyone's throats so I think it only fair to let the reader ask themselves these questions and ponder the following facts.

The same principles apply whether it be preachers of Judaism or Islam or Christianity.

Do preachers lie?
Facts:
*There is no valid evidence whatsoever to support the notion that God exists.
*There is overwhelming, Thoroughly tested scientific evidence that irrefutably rules out any notion of life having been created.
*There is absolutely no proof of the existence of Heaven and or Hell.

Are preachers charlatans?
Facts:
*The definition of a charlatan is "a person claiming to have a special knowledge or skill".
*Preachers claim to communicate wishes or requests by followers to God through prayer.

Are preachers con artists?
Facts:
*The definition of a con artist is "a person who cheats or tricks others by persuading them to believe in something that isn't true".
*Preachers regularly speak of words spoken by God.
*Preachers regularly speak of punishment of living an eternally in Hell for those who do not believe his word.

Are preachers criminals?
Facts:
*In most western civilised countries, Anti-vilification laws make it an offence to incite hatred against minority groups such as homosexuals.
*Preachers regularly promote the shunning of homosexuals.
*In most western civilised countries there are laws relating to the abuse of children.
*Preachers regularly lecture children on being "saved" (from eternal damnation if they fail to believe in what they are told).

Yes, But not for the reasons you put forth. Science does not "irrefutable rule out" that life has not been created. You need more science education. Preachers are liars because they present the issues presented by an ancient corrupt document as "facts, " not beliefs.

Yes, And I agree with the reasons.

Yes, And I agree with the reasons.

Yes, And I agree with the reasons. I would add that the Bible which the preachers recommend that everyone read also condones slavery, Racism, Sexism, And is defense denying. These concepts are criminal. Words matter.

I meant Science does not "irrefutable rule out" that life has been created.
Leaning
Posts: 2,554
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/7/2018 2:22:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Wouldn't it have to be intentional for all of those but the criminal one to count? For the law, Religions often change to match the society they are in. Due to the people in the religion being part of that society and having the same values often. If there was a Christian church in the USA where the members ran amuck in public stoning homosexuals, I'd think that they would be charged as criminals and even many Christians would denounce their actions. There have been numerous cases where people have had criminals charges leveled at them when their actions passed into the criminal realm, Never mind if it was due to their faith.

There are different kinds of preachers, Same as there's different kinds of people. Military Chaplains for example I've heard vary. Some people are able to talk to chaplains about their troubles and have a person willing to listen or at times give practical advice, Even if the person talking to the chaplain is an atheist.
Then I've heard there are some chaplains that pretty much only exhort you to take faith in their deity and that this will help. Never mind if you are an atheist.

Either example of the Chaplin is due respect at least for just being a person, Or one of good intent. Also rank, But that's side issue. You might respect the practical chaplain more who understands that you are an atheist and mainly need to talk to someone, Not be preached at.

I suppose religious people would tend to have more respect for preachers, And more reason to since it matches with their beliefs. But it seems to me even atheists could have some respect for preachers, How much depending on their beliefs and values I suppose. But in either case still depends on the preacher himself. Some preachers are more or less respectable than others.

People most likely to get respect. . . Eh again depends on a persons beliefs and values. Some people firemen and police officers, Others neurosurgeons and rocket scientists. Just a family member who works on a shrimp boat if he's given you reason to respect him. Hmm, I feel a bit off topic. Depending on your values a person will more or respect different careers, Same with individuals. . Or something.
Willows
Posts: 11,589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/8/2018 10:28:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
I suppose that professional public servants such as lawyers, Accountants, Doctors, And politicians have all, At times, Had more than their share of being labelled charlatans, Con artists, And outright criminals, Usually by those who have experienced an unfavourable result. Such allegations, Of course, Are usually unjustified and these professionals all act under a strict code of conduct and high standard of ethics.

But how about religious preachers?

Can the labels of charlatans, Con artists, And criminals frequently levelled against members of the cloth be justified?

I don't wish to preach or shove opinions down everyone's throats so I think it only fair to let the reader ask themselves these questions and ponder the following facts.

The same principles apply whether it be preachers of Judaism or Islam or Christianity.

Do preachers lie?
Facts:
*There is no valid evidence whatsoever to support the notion that God exists.
*There is overwhelming, Thoroughly tested scientific evidence that irrefutably rules out any notion of life having been created.
*There is absolutely no proof of the existence of Heaven and or Hell.

Are preachers charlatans?
Facts:
*The definition of a charlatan is "a person claiming to have a special knowledge or skill".
*Preachers claim to communicate wishes or requests by followers to God through prayer.

Are preachers con artists?
Facts:
*The definition of a con artist is "a person who cheats or tricks others by persuading them to believe in something that isn't true".
*Preachers regularly speak of words spoken by God.
*Preachers regularly speak of punishment of living an eternally in Hell for those who do not believe his word.

Are preachers criminals?
Facts:
*In most western civilised countries, Anti-vilification laws make it an offence to incite hatred against minority groups such as homosexuals.
*Preachers regularly promote the shunning of homosexuals.
*In most western civilised countries there are laws relating to the abuse of children.
*Preachers regularly lecture children on being "saved" (from eternal damnation if they fail to believe in what they are told).

Yes, But not for the reasons you put forth. Science does not "irrefutable rule out" that life has not been created.

Let's not get into semantics here and allow me to elaborate. The irrefutable science of evolution by natural selection has all but put the kibosh on any idea of creation and has certainly shown Biblical accounts of creation to be false. And through extensive research by scientists, There has been no evidence found to indicate any "outside" input of any kind.

More telling, Of course, No mamby-pamby pseudoscientist or creationist has ever revealed any evidence of any sort of divine intervention anywhere in the evolution process.

In other words. . . . Creation? . . . . Forget about it and move on.
Willows
Posts: 11,589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/8/2018 10:36:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Leaning wrote:
Wouldn't it have to be intentional for all of those but the criminal one to count? For the law, Religions often change to match the society they are in. Due to the people in the religion being part of that society and having the same values often. If there was a Christian church in the USA where the members ran amuck in public stoning homosexuals, I'd think that they would be charged as criminals and even many Christians would denounce their actions. There have been numerous cases where people have had criminals charges leveled at them when their actions passed into the criminal realm, Never mind if it was due to their faith.

There are different kinds of preachers, Same as there's different kinds of people. Military Chaplains for example I've heard vary. Some people are able to talk to chaplains about their troubles and have a person willing to listen or at times give practical advice, Even if the person talking to the chaplain is an atheist.
Then I've heard there are some chaplains that pretty much only exhort you to take faith in their deity and that this will help. Never mind if you are an atheist.

Either example of the Chaplin is due respect at least for just being a person, Or one of good intent. Also rank, But that's side issue. You might respect the practical chaplain more who understands that you are an atheist and mainly need to talk to someone, Not be preached at.

I suppose religious people would tend to have more respect for preachers, And more reason to since it matches with their beliefs. But it seems to me even atheists could have some respect for preachers, How much depending on their beliefs and values I suppose. But in either case still depends on the preacher himself. Some preachers are more or less respectable than others.

People most likely to get respect. . . Eh again depends on a persons beliefs and values. Some people firemen and police officers, Others neurosurgeons and rocket scientists. Just a family member who works on a shrimp boat if he's given you reason to respect him. Hmm, I feel a bit off topic. Depending on your values a person will more or respect different careers, Same with individuals. . Or something.

I have no doubt that many Chaplains can give advice to all but I have to get tough here. . . .

Although I tolerate religious preachers I have no respect for them. The reason is that they are fully aware that what they preach is flawed to the point of lies.
And I do not trust them for a minute that the counseling they give to others is therefore flawed and biased to the point of being detrimental and dangerous.
Leaning
Posts: 2,554
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/8/2018 2:36:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If a person was an atheist, There doesn't seem to be any reason to respect a preacher purely for preaching a message you believe to be faulty or harmful. If a person of faith I suppose you would for that reason.
Otherwise, A person might still respect a preacher if they have a concept of them being well learned, Humanistic, And charitable, Community driven, Good people, Who have sacrificed bits of their life for what they might see as the greater good. Though I suppose that can be up to wide interpretation and can even go in the complete opposite direction at times and places, Even over a wide group of preachers in an area or group.

I vaguely recall Google saying something about people allowing atheistic chaplains, Though I'm not sure I would see the point. The military already has psychiatrists and psychologists regardless of faith. Chaplains exist more because many people have certain types of faith and needs, For now at least.
SingularityofLight
Posts: 1,915
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/8/2018 3:55:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows wrote:
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
I suppose that professional public servants such as lawyers, Accountants, Doctors, And politicians have all, At times, Had more than their share of being labelled charlatans, Con artists, And outright criminals, Usually by those who have experienced an unfavourable result. Such allegations, Of course, Are usually unjustified and these professionals all act under a strict code of conduct and high standard of ethics.

But how about religious preachers?

Can the labels of charlatans, Con artists, And criminals frequently levelled against members of the cloth be justified?

I don't wish to preach or shove opinions down everyone's throats so I think it only fair to let the reader ask themselves these questions and ponder the following facts.

The same principles apply whether it be preachers of Judaism or Islam or Christianity.

Do preachers lie?
Facts:
*There is no valid evidence whatsoever to support the notion that God exists.
*There is overwhelming, Thoroughly tested scientific evidence that irrefutably rules out any notion of life having been created.
*There is absolutely no proof of the existence of Heaven and or Hell.

Are preachers charlatans?
Facts:
*The definition of a charlatan is "a person claiming to have a special knowledge or skill".
*Preachers claim to communicate wishes or requests by followers to God through prayer.

Are preachers con artists?
Facts:
*The definition of a con artist is "a person who cheats or tricks others by persuading them to believe in something that isn't true".
*Preachers regularly speak of words spoken by God.
*Preachers regularly speak of punishment of living an eternally in Hell for those who do not believe his word.

Are preachers criminals?
Facts:
*In most western civilised countries, Anti-vilification laws make it an offence to incite hatred against minority groups such as homosexuals.
*Preachers regularly promote the shunning of homosexuals.
*In most western civilised countries there are laws relating to the abuse of children.
*Preachers regularly lecture children on being "saved" (from eternal damnation if they fail to believe in what they are told).

Yes, But not for the reasons you put forth. Science does not "irrefutable rule out" that life has not been created.

Let's not get into semantics here and allow me to elaborate. The irrefutable science of evolution by natural selection has all but put the kibosh on any idea of creation and has certainly shown Biblical accounts of creation to be false. And through extensive research by scientists, There has been no evidence found to indicate any "outside" input of any kind.

More telling, Of course, No mamby-pamby pseudoscientist or creationist has ever revealed any evidence of any sort of divine intervention anywhere in the evolution process.

In other words. . . . Creation? . . . . Forget about it and move on.

No, I talk facts, Not exaggerations as to the "irrefutable" science. Most scientists will tell you that some things such as a spiritual realm and spiritual influences on evolution are not in the domain of science to uncover. They will tell you that science has its limitations.
Leaning
Posts: 2,554
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/8/2018 4:07:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Though I'm unsure if that thought of mine should be under science, Philosophy, Or religion. . . Probably philosophy.
Willows
Posts: 11,589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2018 8:39:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
I suppose that professional public servants such as lawyers, Accountants, Doctors, And politicians have all, At times, Had more than their share of being labelled charlatans, Con artists, And outright criminals, Usually by those who have experienced an unfavourable result. Such allegations, Of course, Are usually unjustified and these professionals all act under a strict code of conduct and high standard of ethics.

But how about religious preachers?

Can the labels of charlatans, Con artists, And criminals frequently levelled against members of the cloth be justified?

I don't wish to preach or shove opinions down everyone's throats so I think it only fair to let the reader ask themselves these questions and ponder the following facts.

The same principles apply whether it be preachers of Judaism or Islam or Christianity.

Do preachers lie?
Facts:
*There is no valid evidence whatsoever to support the notion that God exists.
*There is overwhelming, Thoroughly tested scientific evidence that irrefutably rules out any notion of life having been created.
*There is absolutely no proof of the existence of Heaven and or Hell.

Are preachers charlatans?
Facts:
*The definition of a charlatan is "a person claiming to have a special knowledge or skill".
*Preachers claim to communicate wishes or requests by followers to God through prayer.

Are preachers con artists?
Facts:
*The definition of a con artist is "a person who cheats or tricks others by persuading them to believe in something that isn't true".
*Preachers regularly speak of words spoken by God.
*Preachers regularly speak of punishment of living an eternally in Hell for those who do not believe his word.

Are preachers criminals?
Facts:
*In most western civilised countries, Anti-vilification laws make it an offence to incite hatred against minority groups such as homosexuals.
*Preachers regularly promote the shunning of homosexuals.
*In most western civilised countries there are laws relating to the abuse of children.
*Preachers regularly lecture children on being "saved" (from eternal damnation if they fail to believe in what they are told).

Yes, But not for the reasons you put forth. Science does not "irrefutable rule out" that life has not been created.

Let's not get into semantics here and allow me to elaborate. The irrefutable science of evolution by natural selection has all but put the kibosh on any idea of creation and has certainly shown Biblical accounts of creation to be false. And through extensive research by scientists, There has been no evidence found to indicate any "outside" input of any kind.

More telling, Of course, No mamby-pamby pseudoscientist or creationist has ever revealed any evidence of any sort of divine intervention anywhere in the evolution process.

In other words. . . . Creation? . . . . Forget about it and move on.

No, I talk facts, Not exaggerations as to the "irrefutable" science. Most scientists will tell you that some things such as a spiritual realm and spiritual influences on evolution are not in the domain of science to uncover. They will tell you that science has its limitations.

I'm sure you will find that "most scientists" comprises those who are religiously inclined, "pseudo-scientists", And bona fide scientists who are just being polite when they say spiritualism is beyond the realm of science.
And in any case, I think they are technically wrong since psychotherapy and delusion are certainly within the realms of science.
SingularityofLight
Posts: 1,915
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/10/2018 8:46:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Willows wrote:
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
SingularityofLight wrote:
Willows wrote:
I suppose that professional public servants such as lawyers, Accountants, Doctors, And politicians have all, At times, Had more than their share of being labelled charlatans, Con artists, And outright criminals, Usually by those who have experienced an unfavourable result. Such allegations, Of course, Are usually unjustified and these professionals all act under a strict code of conduct and high standard of ethics.

But how about religious preachers?

Can the labels of charlatans, Con artists, And criminals frequently levelled against members of the cloth be justified?

I don't wish to preach or shove opinions down everyone's throats so I think it only fair to let the reader ask themselves these questions and ponder the following facts.

The same principles apply whether it be preachers of Judaism or Islam or Christianity.

Do preachers lie?
Facts:
*There is no valid evidence whatsoever to support the notion that God exists.
*There is overwhelming, Thoroughly tested scientific evidence that irrefutably rules out any notion of life having been created.
*There is absolutely no proof of the existence of Heaven and or Hell.

Are preachers charlatans?
Facts:
*The definition of a charlatan is "a person claiming to have a special knowledge or skill".
*Preachers claim to communicate wishes or requests by followers to God through prayer.

Are preachers con artists?
Facts:
*The definition of a con artist is "a person who cheats or tricks others by persuading them to believe in something that isn't true".
*Preachers regularly speak of words spoken by God.
*Preachers regularly speak of punishment of living an eternally in Hell for those who do not believe his word.

Are preachers criminals?
Facts:
*In most western civilised countries, Anti-vilification laws make it an offence to incite hatred against minority groups such as homosexuals.
*Preachers regularly promote the shunning of homosexuals.
*In most western civilised countries there are laws relating to the abuse of children.
*Preachers regularly lecture children on being "saved" (from eternal damnation if they fail to believe in what they are told).

Yes, But not for the reasons you put forth. Science does not "irrefutable rule out" that life has not been created.

Let's not get into semantics here and allow me to elaborate. The irrefutable science of evolution by natural selection has all but put the kibosh on any idea of creation and has certainly shown Biblical accounts of creation to be false. And through extensive research by scientists, There has been no evidence found to indicate any "outside" input of any kind.

More telling, Of course, No mamby-pamby pseudoscientist or creationist has ever revealed any evidence of any sort of divine intervention anywhere in the evolution process.

In other words. . . . Creation? . . . . Forget about it and move on.

No, I talk facts, Not exaggerations as to the "irrefutable" science. Most scientists will tell you that some things such as a spiritual realm and spiritual influences on evolution are not in the domain of science to uncover. They will tell you that science has its limitations.

I'm sure you will find that "most scientists" comprises those who are religiously inclined, "pseudo-scientists", And bona fide scientists who are just being polite when they say spiritualism is beyond the realm of science.
And in any case, I think they are technically wrong since psychotherapy and delusion are certainly within the realms of science.

That is just not true. You are bending the only polls we have to suit your private beliefs. Any scientist that believes in a spiritual realm to you is a "pseudo-scientist. " Quit denying the facts at face value, Willows:

The latest survey I could find stated that "51 percent of scientists believe in God or a universal spirit, " "7 percent don"t know or wouldn"t answer the question, " and "41 percent said that don"t believe in either God or a universial spirit. " That leaves a minority of scientists that could possibly be classified as atheist scientists. Start speaking the truth next time before opening your marketing mouth up, Willows (you said you were in marketing if I remember correctly). I know something about science, Willows. I had a hard science training at University for four and a half years. Most scientists will tell you that proving the existence of spirit is beyond the realm of science.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.