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A Disappointing Retraction

Willows
Posts: 11,653
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2/25/2019 10:31:14 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Aw, Gee Wiz and Goddamn!

I was getting so excited over the evidence that Tradie had formulated for the existence of God and feeling so happy for him that he would be able to claim the one million dollar prize money for his obvious extensive research and findings.

But alas, My hopes and premature enthusiasm have been dashed.

From:
"But God is true - and the evidence which supports this is evil. "
and:
"if you recognize evil - this is evidence for God, Not against God. "


To: the sad conclusion and defeat suffered by Tradie in having to make the following humiliating retraction:
"But honestly, This was never an argument for the existence of God. "

Well, I suppose it is back to the drawing board for ever-anxious and optimistic theists regarding the possibility of their invisible master.

In the meantime, I guess, We just have to go back to reality and the default position of there being no God whatsoever.
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,528
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2/26/2019 6:11:42 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Aw, Gee Wiz and Goddamn!

I was getting so excited over the evidence that Tradie had formulated for the existence of God and feeling so happy for him that he would be able to claim the one million dollar prize money for his obvious extensive research and findings.

But alas, My hopes and premature enthusiasm have been dashed.

From:
"But God is true - and the evidence which supports this is evil. "
and:
"if you recognize evil - this is evidence for God, Not against God. "

To: the sad conclusion and defeat suffered by Tradie in having to make the following humiliating retraction:
"But honestly, This was never an argument for the existence of God. "

Well, I suppose it is back to the drawing board for ever-anxious and optimistic theists regarding the possibility of their invisible master.

In the meantime, I guess, We just have to go back to reality and the default position of there being no God whatsoever.


thanks for the laugh and for the distortions and misrepresentations of my response to you. But you never fail to miss the trees right in front of your face. You are so busy thinking of yourself you trip right over every time.

I never recanted or went back on my declaration. I merely noted that the essence of my post was not about proving the existence of God but rather of refuting the premises those who don't believe in God.

and the fact is and what you have not attempted to do or even come close to doing so is to deny those refutations nor address them. Instead you have resorted to mocking and evasive tactics - hoping that no one else will figure out what you have realised - that you don't how to respond to it with an argument - and furthermore hoping that if you make enough mockery that everyone will go onto another topic.

The fact is Willow - that my refutation has seriously damaged your own premises and you have to rethink again why you don't believe in God. But this time you have to try and forget about evil - which is what you have been relying on - and try and formulate a real argument. Of course every time you do - that sinking feeling of evil will come back to haunt you - reminding you forever that evil is real evidence that God exists. And then you will try and blot it out - and mock some more - and then try again.

Good luck with that - but one thing is clear. I have not conceded or backtracked one iota.
Harikrish
Posts: 29,018
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2/26/2019 5:35:23 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Aw, Gee Wiz and Goddamn!

I was getting so excited over the evidence that Tradie had formulated for the existence of God and feeling so happy for him that he would be able to claim the one million dollar prize money for his obvious extensive research and findings.

But alas, My hopes and premature enthusiasm have been dashed.

From:
"But God is true - and the evidence which supports this is evil. "
and:
"if you recognize evil - this is evidence for God, Not against God. "


To: the sad conclusion and defeat suffered by Tradie in having to make the following humiliating retraction:
"But honestly, This was never an argument for the existence of God. "

Well, I suppose it is back to the drawing board for ever-anxious and optimistic theists regarding the possibility of their invisible master.

In the meantime, I guess, We just have to go back to reality and the default position of there being no God whatsoever.


thanks for the laugh and for the distortions and misrepresentations of my response to you. But you never fail to miss the trees right in front of your face. You are so busy thinking of yourself you trip right over every time.

I never recanted or went back on my declaration. I merely noted that the essence of my post was not about proving the existence of God but rather of refuting the premises those who don't believe in God.

and the fact is and what you have not attempted to do or even come close to doing so is to deny those refutations nor address them. Instead you have resorted to mocking and evasive tactics - hoping that no one else will figure out what you have realised - that you don't how to respond to it with an argument - and furthermore hoping that if you make enough mockery that everyone will go onto another topic.

The fact is Willow - that my refutation has seriously damaged your own premises and you have to rethink again why you don't believe in God. But this time you have to try and forget about evil - which is what you have been relying on - and try and formulate a real argument. Of course every time you do - that sinking feeling of evil will come back to haunt you - reminding you forever that evil is real evidence that God exists. And then you will try and blot it out - and mock some more - and then try again.

Good luck with that - but one thing is clear. I have not conceded or backtracked one iota.

Christians have reduced God to an absurd logical argument.
https://www. Debate. Org/forums/religion/topic/112121/

If God is omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient and the universe is 14 billion years old. Why are we still trying to prove logically that God exists. P1, P2, P3 etc when evidence of God's should be so overwhelming that it would be impossible to ignore or refute? Yet all we get from Theists is the same logical arguments

P1. God does not exist, Objective moral values do not exist.

P2. Objective moral values do exist.

P3. Therefore, God exists.

It appears from the logical argument the evidence for objective morality is higher than the evidence for God and, We can at best only deduce from objective morality the probability of God's existence. That is how the Christians have reduced God to an absurd logical argument by appealing to the atheists to accept morality as being objective.
Leaning
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2/26/2019 7:39:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Post #2

I don't think you made any retraction myself, Though I do feel the discussion on the relation between the existence of evil and God could have been expanded. Just difficult to do so when there is a lack of respect between the people talking about it. Which I don't blame you for really. Or quite any one person.
Willows
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2/27/2019 9:30:45 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Leaning wrote:
Tradesecret wrote:
Post #2

I don't think you made any retraction myself, Though I do feel the discussion on the relation between the existence of evil and God could have been expanded. Just difficult to do so when there is a lack of respect between the people talking about it. Which I don't blame you for really. Or quite any one person.

Well, What you "think" (and there are doubts about this) and reality are completely at odds with each other.
From:
"But God is true - and the evidence which supports this is evil. "
and:
"if you recognize evil - this is evidence for God, Not against God. "

To:
"But honestly, This was never an argument for the existence of God. "

What is it about the word "retraction" that you obviously fail to understand?

His words are in print and he made a complete backflip on his absurdly ambitious statements.
Leaning
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2/27/2019 5:33:48 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
It's more that I am interested in continuing debate in a polite way, That allows both sides to get to an issue, Rather than try to force my perspective down a throat. I'm willing to allow enough wiggle room and believe that he intended the topic post more as an argument against the atheist argument that evil was clear evidence for the nonexistence of God, Rather than it being an argument for existence of God.

There is a difference between convincing a person and browbeating them. Myself I have some interest in convincing people of my point of view, But not often. I'm more interested in learning more about their point of view and ideas.

It's more important to me to have healthy channels of conversation open, Than it is for me to stubbornly cling to minor points in a conversation. Or if I was to cling, It ought be in a polite way, That the conversation does not become poisoned. I don't always manage to be polite, But that's just reason to practice and think on it for me.

As for retraction, If I like I can view it as needing him to outright say the words "I retract my statement. "
Harikrish
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2/27/2019 5:47:20 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Leaning wrote:
It's more that I am interested in continuing debate in a polite way, That allows both sides to get to an issue, Rather than try to force my perspective down a throat. I'm willing to allow enough wiggle room and believe that he intended the topic post more as an argument against the atheist argument that evil was clear evidence for the nonexistence of God, Rather than it being an argument for existence of God.

There is a difference between convincing a person and browbeating them. Myself I have some interest in convincing people of my point of view, But not often. I'm more interested in learning more about their point of view and ideas.

It's more important to me to have healthy channels of conversation open, Than it is for me to stubbornly cling to minor points in a conversation. Or if I was to cling, It ought be in a polite way, That the conversation does not become poisoned. I don't always manage to be polite, But that's just reason to practice and think on it for me.

As for retraction, If I like I can view it as needing him to outright say the words "I retract my statement. "

The Hebrew Bible potrays God as a genocidal lunatic. The Jews were repeatedly punished by their God throughout their history even though the Jews were no more or less evil than the pagan Gentiles.
That God is evil is well documented in the Hebrew Bible. Its trying to prove God is good is where the evidence falls short.
Leaning
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2/27/2019 5:57:59 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Regardless of my own personal views, I do notice that people have numerous perceptions about God and his nature. Some see evil, Others good, Even some seeing something alien. People have reasons, Events, And logic all leading to their different interpretations. I imagine there is enough evidence or ambiguity to lead to a good or evil interpretation depending on where we started in life to now.
Harikrish
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2/27/2019 6:27:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Leaning wrote:
Regardless of my own personal views, I do notice that people have numerous perceptions about God and his nature. Some see evil, Others good, Even some seeing something alien. People have reasons, Events, And logic all leading to their different interpretations. I imagine there is enough evidence or ambiguity to lead to a good or evil interpretation depending on where we started in life to now.

The Christians had every reason to potray God as a moral entity because they believed a Jew named Jesus died for their sins. They believed God sacrificed Jews for their sins starting with Jesus. Hitler was a devout Christian and sacrificed 6 million Jews because he too believed dead Jews could forgive sins just like Jesus did.
Jews rejected Jesus because human sacrifice went against their beliefs and they certainly did not want to be sacrificed for the sins of others.
Even Jesus lamented on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " which means, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "

Christianity is the only religion where the followers worship a dead Jewish corpse nailed to a wooden cross 2000 years ago and believe Jesus died for their sins and all the sins for future generation in perpetuity. Ironically it was the Romans who crucified Jesus for the salvation of the Gentiles. The salvation idea was promoted by the Roman Catholic Church
Leaning
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2/27/2019 6:53:56 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I'd imagine people have a plethora of reasons why they portray or why they have certain beliefs of their religions and deities.

Who do you think God sacrificed after Jesus for the sins of others?

I myself think that the question of what Hitler believed has too many ambiguities to be able to state to others as fact. Though I am sure we all have our convictions on what he believed. From what I have read online, I think he held Christianity in contempt but spoke positively about it in his speeches because he was a politician of the most manipulative and false kind. To me he often looked more an atheist and a materialist. The most religious he appeared honestly to me was in some form of pantheism with nature and the fact that we and this world exist. But that reaches a bit. I think he went about his insane genocide against the Jews in Germany because of some strange delusion and conspiracy theories regarding the shameful state of Germany after WWI.

If you would like I could provide some links that I think support my view of Hitler. I had them in the past after someone made the argument that Hitler was a devout Christian, So I went looking for links that argued from my point of view that they were wrong. Looked for one or two arguing that I was wrong, Decided I was right and deleted the links from my favorites a while back. But could find them again.

I would imagine that there are many reasons that Jesus was not accepted by all Jews as the Messiah, And reasons some others did accept him. I do feel doubtful however that human sacrifice was top of the list.

I do vaguely recall the Bible talking about Jesus lamenting on the cross. This is not strange to me. My view of Jesus when I was religious, Was that he was still human, A man, Another son of God. People are not perfect. Why would I expect him to stoically deal with pain in life without a moan, Groan, Question, Even fear? Did Job not lament himself, Yet keep his path?

Religions do tend to be specific, And thus different from one another. Thus any religion could be described as the only religion where X.

I imagine people have various different interpretations of the sacrifice that Jesus made in the Bible. Thus the many different iterations of Christianity.
Harikrish
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2/27/2019 7:03:34 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Leaning wrote:
I'd imagine people have a plethora of reasons why they portray or why they have certain beliefs of their religions and deities.

Who do you think God sacrificed after Jesus for the sins of others?

I myself think that the question of what Hitler believed has too many ambiguities to be able to state to others as fact. Though I am sure we all have our convictions on what he believed. From what I have read online, I think he held Christianity in contempt but spoke positively about it in his speeches because he was a politician of the most manipulative and false kind. To me he often looked more an atheist and a materialist. The most religious he appeared honestly to me was in some form of pantheism with nature and the fact that we and this world exist. But that reaches a bit. I think he went about his insane genocide against the Jews in Germany because of some strange delusion and conspiracy theories regarding the shameful state of Germany after WWI.

If you would like I could provide some links that I think support my view of Hitler. I had them in the past after someone made the argument that Hitler was a devout Christian, So I went looking for links that argued from my point of view that they were wrong. Looked for one or two arguing that I was wrong, Decided I was right and deleted the links from my favorites a while back. But could find them again.

I would imagine that there are many reasons that Jesus was not accepted by all Jews as the Messiah, And reasons some others did accept him. I do feel doubtful however that human sacrifice was top of the list.

I do vaguely recall the Bible talking about Jesus lamenting on the cross. This is not strange to me. My view of Jesus when I was religious, Was that he was still human, A man, Another son of God. People are not perfect. Why would I expect him to stoically deal with pain in life without a moan, Groan, Question, Even fear? Did Job not lament himself, Yet keep his path?

Religions do tend to be specific, And thus different from one another. Thus any religion could be described as the only religion where X.

I imagine people have various different interpretations of the sacrifice that Jesus made in the Bible. Thus the many different iterations of Christianity.

I have given you the views and beliefs of Jews and Christians the two key players in this drama of a Good and Evil God.

The Hebrew Bible potrays God as a genocidal lunatic. The Jews were repeatedly punished by their God throughout their history even though the Jews were no more or less evil than the pagan Gentiles.
That God is evil is well documented in the Hebrew Bible. Its trying to prove God is good is where the evidence falls short.

The Christians had every reason to potray God as a moral entity because they believed a Jew named Jesus died for their sins. They believed God sacrificed Jews for their sins starting with Jesus. Hitler was a devout Christian and sacrificed 6 million Jews because he too believed dead Jews could forgive sins just like Jesus did.
Jews rejected Jesus because human sacrifice went against their beliefs and they certainly did not want to be sacrificed for the sins of others.
Even Jesus lamented on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " which means, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "

Christianity is the only religion where the followers worship a dead Jewish corpse nailed to a wooden cross 2000 years ago and believe Jesus died for their sins and all the sins for future generation in perpetuity. Ironically it was the Romans who crucified Jesus for the salvation of the Gentiles. The salvation idea was promoted by the Roman Catholic Church.
Leaning
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2/27/2019 7:18:23 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
You have have given me you view on the views and beliefs of Jews and Christians who you believe to be the two key players in this drama of a Good and Evil God.

I think an argument could be made for specifics of the Bible arguing against your point of view, I base this upon a vague recollection of what I have read in the past and now mostly forgotten. I don't quite have enough invested in this conversation to read the Bible over again however. My main thought however is not that the God of the Bible is good or evil, But that there is much evidence or writings that could persuade people in either direction. To have a convincing argument I would have to read the Bible again to better have references, But I don't care to at this point in time really.

Given that I am not willing to learn, Perhaps the point could be dropped. You can lead a horse to water, But it's a bit harder to make him drink.
Harikrish
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2/27/2019 8:04:56 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Leaning wrote:
You have have given me you view on the views and beliefs of Jews and Christians who you believe to be the two key players in this drama of a Good and Evil God.

I think an argument could be made for specifics of the Bible arguing against your point of view, I base this upon a vague recollection of what I have read in the past and now mostly forgotten. I don't quite have enough invested in this conversation to read the Bible over again however. My main thought however is not that the God of the Bible is good or evil, But that there is much evidence or writings that could persuade people in either direction. To have a convincing argument I would have to read the Bible again to better have references, But I don't care to at this point in time really.

Given that I am not willing to learn, Perhaps the point could be dropped. You can lead a horse to water, But it's a bit harder to make him drink.

Or you could be the alcoholic with the wine praying someone took away the cup you were drinking from.

Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, He fell facedown and prayed, "My Father, If it is possible, Let this cup pass from Me. Yet not as I will, But as You will. "

Scriptures prove God is a genocidal lunatic.
https://www. Debate. Org/forums/Religion/topic/113491/
Willows
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2/27/2019 8:23:02 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Leaning wrote:
It's more that I am interested in continuing debate in a polite way, That allows both sides to get to an issue, Rather than try to force my perspective down a throat. I'm willing to allow enough wiggle room and believe that he intended the topic post more as an argument against the atheist argument that evil was clear evidence for the nonexistence of God, Rather than it being an argument for existence of God.

There is a difference between convincing a person and browbeating them. Myself I have some interest in convincing people of my point of view, But not often. I'm more interested in learning more about their point of view and ideas.

It's more important to me to have healthy channels of conversation open, Than it is for me to stubbornly cling to minor points in a conversation. Or if I was to cling, It ought be in a polite way, That the conversation does not become poisoned. I don't always manage to be polite, But that's just reason to practice and think on it for me.

As for retraction, If I like I can view it as needing him to outright say the words "I retract my statement. "

I agree arguments should be civil. But when you get deluded God believers who are so intractable that they can't see the wood for the trees and come up with bizarre arguments and denials, It hardly sets the scene for intelligent discussion, Does it?
Leaning
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2/27/2019 10:51:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
If I consider someone deluded, Bizarre, Or making insane sounding arguments to me, I generally don't bother discussing the topic with them. What would be the point? Theist or atheist.
Willows
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2/28/2019 8:09:16 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Leaning wrote:
If I consider someone deluded, Bizarre, Or making insane sounding arguments to me, I generally don't bother discussing the topic with them. What would be the point? Theist or atheist.

Um, Er, Well, Considering that anyone who believes there is a god is deluded and that there is no valid evidence, Reasoning or logic in such an insane belief, You would not then be in discussion with any believer in God whatsoever.
Willows
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2/28/2019 10:51:49 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Leaning wrote:
And that type of argument by you, Is why I only talk with you some of the time.

Why, Because you choose to ignore sound reason and logic when you are confronted by something that conflicts with your own pre-conceived unreasoned and illogical views?
That"s understandable anyway; theists do it all the time since there is absolutely no sound reasoning or logic when it comes to arguing in favor of a non-existent, Unproven, Completely contrived concept.

Such is religion eh?
We may as well have an in-depth discussion about fairies and goblins. At least (most) people don"t take them seriously.

So, Have a good gasp and a choke on this post and then become so hurt and sensitive so as to not respond.
Come to think of it, Try not to dwell on it too long since it may have a detrimental effect on your already wavering perceptions.
Leaning
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2/28/2019 11:10:58 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Nah, That's not it. I think I do well enough for logic and reason. I just find your perception of religion to be incredibly limited. As well as bitter, Vile, And toxic. I think you raise interesting viewpoints occasionally, But rarely.

A good example of this is your last post. An insult, Taunting me. To me, That is not a person trying to open up constructive conversation. It's a person limited to his past, Like some man injured once in the past, Whose wound had become a scab. Picking and picking at it. Insisting to others that the cause of his wound is an evil to the world, That all people must view it the same. And responding with sarcasm and bile to those who disagree. '

Though honestly, Those might be a bit too strong descriptions.
ethang5
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3/1/2019 8:53:10 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Leaning wrote:

And that type of argument by you, Is why I only talk with you some of the time.

Why, Because you choose to ignore sound reason and logic when you are confronted by something that conflicts with your own pre-conceived unreasoned and illogical views?
That"s understandable anyway; theists do it all the time since there is absolutely no sound reasoning or logic when it comes to arguing in favor of a non-existent, Unproven, Completely contrived concept.

Such is religion eh?
We may as well have an in-depth discussion about fairies and goblins. At least (most) people don"t take them seriously.

So, Have a good gasp and a choke on this post and then become so hurt and sensitive so as to not respond.
Come to think of it, Try not to dwell on it too long since it may have a detrimental effect on your already wavering perceptions.

Different world view, Same conclusion.
Willows
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3/1/2019 9:21:06 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Leaning wrote:
Nah, That's not it. I think I do well enough for logic and reason. I just find your perception of religion to be incredibly limited. As well as bitter, Vile, And toxic. I think you raise interesting viewpoints occasionally, But rarely.

A good example of this is your last post. An insult, Taunting me. To me, That is not a person trying to open up constructive conversation. It's a person limited to his past, Like some man injured once in the past, Whose wound had become a scab. Picking and picking at it. Insisting to others that the cause of his wound is an evil to the world, That all people must view it the same. And responding with sarcasm and bile to those who disagree. '

Though honestly, Those might be a bit too strong descriptions.

Well, Allow me to remind you, Since, Perhaps you erased the content of the preceding post from your memory banks, To wit: "If I consider someone deluded, Bizarre, Or making insane sounding arguments to me, I generally don't bother discussing the topic with them. What would be the point? Theist or atheist. "

You see, Believe it or not, Many (in fact anyone with half a brain and common sense) would take that as being rather on the sour side, You know, Sarcastic, Anal retentive (Ohhh la de da, I don't bother discussing) so is it any wonder why such a post would attract the sort of response that it deserves?

I have always been quite frank with the fact that if anyone is going to gratuitously sling sh! T in my direction I will send it back ten-fold which is what I did in this case.

The difference is that when I fire it back, Each word is carefully selected and my statements have been thoroughly researched and deadly accurate.

Unlike yours, For example: "I just find your perception of religion to be incredibly limited. As well as bitter, Vile, And toxic. "

I challenge you to qualify such an overtly ridiculous statement by reason, Logic and fact.
In other words, How did you "find" such a load of crap to say about someone who has made a more than fair call against someone else who has a sour, Prejudiced mind to hurl unqualified negativity at others, Namely, Moi.
Leaning
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3/2/2019 9:16:07 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Perhaps I could have phrased my response on not bothering to talk with people I consider to be making deluded or insane arguments better. But I am satisfied with it. Whether a person is schizophrenic, Or simply so fixed in life on bizarre ideals or viewpoints, I don't see a point in discussing anything with them. Since I have no interest in conversation with such a person (Usually). I included theist and atheist, Because I did not wish to single out either belief. I am an atheist. I think that people who believe in afterlife religions are mistaken. But, They are still normal (To me). Everyone is deluded about something in life, Since we all have different viewpoints and beliefs (I think).

I still fail to see how it is a sour viewpoint. I do however apologize if I phrased that comment in such a way as it insulted you. I did not intend that.

bitter, Vile, And toxic. . . 'That, I do not apologize for. Though I am sorry I allowed myself to become angered by your taunt and insult.

One definition of bitter is
(of people or their feelings or behavior) angry, Hurt, Or resentful because of one's bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment.
You do often appear bitter to me in regards to religion. You post often enough about your own experiences to lead one to a conclusion that much of your anger toward it started in the past, And now colors your future.

One definition of vile is
extremely unpleasant.
At times I find you extremely unpleasant in your attitude and words toward religion and people.

One definition of toxic is
very bad, Unpleasant, Or harmful.
Have you ever heard of toxic bosses? Toxic leaders? Workplaces? I think that you often make the forums toxic in your zeal to insult and decry religion, And the religious.

If you find this reply unsatisfactory, Alright. All I can say is that it is an attempt to be honest. That I do not mean it as an insult. Though I am willing enough to admit being called bitter, Vile, And toxic would be insulting. Even willing to admit that perhaps I ought not to have said it. But right this second, Too much petty pride in me to apologize for it.
Harikrish
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3/3/2019 4:19:29 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Leaning wrote:
Perhaps I could have phrased my response on not bothering to talk with people I consider to be making deluded or insane arguments better. But I am satisfied with it. Whether a person is schizophrenic, Or simply so fixed in life on bizarre ideals or viewpoints, I don't see a point in discussing anything with them. Since I have no interest in conversation with such a person (Usually). I included theist and atheist, Because I did not wish to single out either belief. I am an atheist. I think that people who believe in afterlife religions are mistaken. But, They are still normal (To me). Everyone is deluded about something in life, Since we all have different viewpoints and beliefs (I think).

I still fail to see how it is a sour viewpoint. I do however apologize if I phrased that comment in such a way as it insulted you. I did not intend that.

bitter, Vile, And toxic. . . 'That, I do not apologize for. Though I am sorry I allowed myself to become angered by your taunt and insult.

One definition of bitter is
(of people or their feelings or behavior) angry, Hurt, Or resentful because of one's bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment.
You do often appear bitter to me in regards to religion. You post often enough about your own experiences to lead one to a conclusion that much of your anger toward it started in the past, And now colors your future.

One definition of vile is
extremely unpleasant.
At times I find you extremely unpleasant in your attitude and words toward religion and people.

One definition of toxic is
very bad, Unpleasant, Or harmful.
Have you ever heard of toxic bosses? Toxic leaders? Workplaces? I think that you often make the forums toxic in your zeal to insult and decry religion, And the religious.

If you find this reply unsatisfactory, Alright. All I can say is that it is an attempt to be honest. That I do not mean it as an insult. Though I am willing enough to admit being called bitter, Vile, And toxic would be insulting. Even willing to admit that perhaps I ought not to have said it. But right this second, Too much petty pride in me to apologize for it.

The reason Willows like all Australians are bitter, Vile and toxic people is because Australia is a penal colony and the convicts sent there had no claim to any property. But over time the convicts stole property from the aboriginals and further attempts to rehabilitate the convicts was terminated. White convict culture is predominantly Australian.
Willows
Posts: 11,653
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3/3/2019 9:34:08 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Leaning wrote:
Perhaps I could have phrased my response on not bothering to talk with people I consider to be making deluded or insane arguments better. But I am satisfied with it. Whether a person is schizophrenic, Or simply so fixed in life on bizarre ideals or viewpoints, I don't see a point in discussing anything with them. Since I have no interest in conversation with such a person (Usually). I included theist and atheist, Because I did not wish to single out either belief. I am an atheist. I think that people who believe in afterlife religions are mistaken. But, They are still normal (To me). Everyone is deluded about something in life, Since we all have different viewpoints and beliefs (I think).

I still fail to see how it is a sour viewpoint. I do however apologize if I phrased that comment in such a way as it insulted you. I did not intend that.

bitter, Vile, And toxic. . . 'That, I do not apologize for. Though I am sorry I allowed myself to become angered by your taunt and insult.

One definition of bitter is
(of people or their feelings or behavior) angry, Hurt, Or resentful because of one's bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment.
You do often appear bitter to me in regards to religion. You post often enough about your own experiences to lead one to a conclusion that much of your anger toward it started in the past, And now colors your future.

One definition of vile is
extremely unpleasant.
At times I find you extremely unpleasant in your attitude and words toward religion and people.

One definition of toxic is
very bad, Unpleasant, Or harmful.
Have you ever heard of toxic bosses? Toxic leaders? Workplaces? I think that you often make the forums toxic in your zeal to insult and decry religion, And the religious.

If you find this reply unsatisfactory, Alright. All I can say is that it is an attempt to be honest. That I do not mean it as an insult. Though I am willing enough to admit being called bitter, Vile, And toxic would be insulting. Even willing to admit that perhaps I ought not to have said it. But right this second, Too much petty pride in me to apologize for it.

That's cool.
It is one thing to have delusions for whatever reason but what has always concerned me is the extent to which religious people have delusions.

Again, Most folk who call themselves religious are not really but just want to fit into a particular mold.
Those who do actually believe there is a God and an afterlife are deluded 24/7, That is a problem.
ethang5
Posts: 18,957
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3/3/2019 2:53:28 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Willows wrote:
Leaning wrote:
Perhaps I could have phrased my response on not bothering to talk with people I consider to be making deluded or insane arguments better. But I am satisfied with it. Whether a person is schizophrenic, Or simply so fixed in life on bizarre ideals or viewpoints, I don't see a point in discussing anything with them. Since I have no interest in conversation with such a person (Usually). I included theist and atheist, Because I did not wish to single out either belief. I am an atheist. I think that people who believe in afterlife religions are mistaken. But, They are still normal (To me). Everyone is deluded about something in life, Since we all have different viewpoints and beliefs (I think).

I still fail to see how it is a sour viewpoint. I do however apologize if I phrased that comment in such a way as it insulted you. I did not intend that.

bitter, Vile, And toxic. . . 'That, I do not apologize for. Though I am sorry I allowed myself to become angered by your taunt and insult.

One definition of bitter is
(of people or their feelings or behavior) angry, Hurt, Or resentful because of one's bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment.
You do often appear bitter to me in regards to religion. You post often enough about your own experiences to lead one to a conclusion that much of your anger toward it started in the past, And now colors your future.

One definition of vile is
extremely unpleasant.
At times I find you extremely unpleasant in your attitude and words toward religion and people.

One definition of toxic is
very bad, Unpleasant, Or harmful.
Have you ever heard of toxic bosses? Toxic leaders? Workplaces? I think that you often make the forums toxic in your zeal to insult and decry religion, And the religious.

If you find this reply unsatisfactory, Alright. All I can say is that it is an attempt to be honest. That I do not mean it as an insult. Though I am willing enough to admit being called bitter, Vile, And toxic would be insulting. Even willing to admit that perhaps I ought not to have said it. But right this second, Too much petty pride in me to apologize for it.

That's cool.
It is one thing to have delusions for whatever reason but what has always concerned me is the extent to which religious people have delusions.

Again, Most folk who call themselves religious are not really but just want to fit into a particular mold.
Those who do actually believe there is a God and an afterlife are deluded 24/7, That is a problem.

Wow. The idiot's obsession cut out everything leaning said about him.
Harikrish
Posts: 29,018
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3/3/2019 4:29:57 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
ethang5 wrote:
Willows wrote:
Leaning wrote:
Perhaps I could have phrased my response on not bothering to talk with people I consider to be making deluded or insane arguments better. But I am satisfied with it. Whether a person is schizophrenic, Or simply so fixed in life on bizarre ideals or viewpoints, I don't see a point in discussing anything with them. Since I have no interest in conversation with such a person (Usually). I included theist and atheist, Because I did not wish to single out either belief. I am an atheist. I think that people who believe in afterlife religions are mistaken. But, They are still normal (To me). Everyone is deluded about something in life, Since we all have different viewpoints and beliefs (I think).

I still fail to see how it is a sour viewpoint. I do however apologize if I phrased that comment in such a way as it insulted you. I did not intend that.

bitter, Vile, And toxic. . . 'That, I do not apologize for. Though I am sorry I allowed myself to become angered by your taunt and insult.

One definition of bitter is
(of people or their feelings or behavior) angry, Hurt, Or resentful because of one's bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment.
You do often appear bitter to me in regards to religion. You post often enough about your own experiences to lead one to a conclusion that much of your anger toward it started in the past, And now colors your future.

One definition of vile is
extremely unpleasant.
At times I find you extremely unpleasant in your attitude and words toward religion and people.

One definition of toxic is
very bad, Unpleasant, Or harmful.
Have you ever heard of toxic bosses? Toxic leaders? Workplaces? I think that you often make the forums toxic in your zeal to insult and decry religion, And the religious.

If you find this reply unsatisfactory, Alright. All I can say is that it is an attempt to be honest. That I do not mean it as an insult. Though I am willing enough to admit being called bitter, Vile, And toxic would be insulting. Even willing to admit that perhaps I ought not to have said it. But right this second, Too much petty pride in me to apologize for it.

That's cool.
It is one thing to have delusions for whatever reason but what has always concerned me is the extent to which religious people have delusions.

Again, Most folk who call themselves religious are not really but just want to fit into a particular mold.
Those who do actually believe there is a God and an afterlife are deluded 24/7, That is a problem.

Wow. The idiot's obsession cut out everything leaning said about him.

Willows replied to leaning's post#22. In post # 24 Which you brought forward. Nothing was cut out from Leaning's post#22.
You are the typical lying low IQ negroid.
ethang5
Posts: 18,957
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3/4/2019 7:11:28 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Harikrish wrote:
ethang5 wrote:
Willows wrote:
Leaning wrote:
Perhaps I could have phrased my response on not bothering to talk with people I consider to be making deluded or insane arguments better. But I am satisfied with it. Whether a person is schizophrenic, Or simply so fixed in life on bizarre ideals or viewpoints, I don't see a point in discussing anything with them. Since I have no interest in conversation with such a person (Usually). I included theist and atheist, Because I did not wish to single out either belief. I am an atheist. I think that people who believe in afterlife religions are mistaken. But, They are still normal (To me). Everyone is deluded about something in life, Since we all have different viewpoints and beliefs (I think).

I still fail to see how it is a sour viewpoint. I do however apologize if I phrased that comment in such a way as it insulted you. I did not intend that.

bitter, Vile, And toxic. . . 'That, I do not apologize for. Though I am sorry I allowed myself to become angered by your taunt and insult.

One definition of bitter is
(of people or their feelings or behavior) angry, Hurt, Or resentful because of one's bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment.
You do often appear bitter to me in regards to religion. You post often enough about your own experiences to lead one to a conclusion that much of your anger toward it started in the past, And now colors your future.

One definition of vile is
extremely unpleasant.
At times I find you extremely unpleasant in your attitude and words toward religion and people.

One definition of toxic is
very bad, Unpleasant, Or harmful.
Have you ever heard of toxic bosses? Toxic leaders? Workplaces? I think that you often make the forums toxic in your zeal to insult and decry religion, And the religious.

If you find this reply unsatisfactory, Alright. All I can say is that it is an attempt to be honest. That I do not mean it as an insult. Though I am willing enough to admit being called bitter, Vile, And toxic would be insulting. Even willing to admit that perhaps I ought not to have said it. But right this second, Too much petty pride in me to apologize for it.

That's cool.
It is one thing to have delusions for whatever reason but what has always concerned me is the extent to which religious people have delusions.

Again, Most folk who call themselves religious are not really but just want to fit into a particular mold.
Those who do actually believe there is a God and an afterlife are deluded 24/7, That is a problem.

Wow. The idiot's obsession cut out everything leaning said about him.

Willows replied to leaning's post#22. In post # 24 Which you brought forward. Nothing was cut out from Leaning's post#22.

Leaning's post was about willowed. He said,

You do often appear bitter to me in regards to religion. You post often enough about your own experiences to lead one to a conclusion that much of your anger toward it started in the past, And now colors your future.

And,

At times I find you extremely unpleasant in your attitude and words toward religion and people.

And,

I think that you often make the forums toxic in your zeal to insult and decry religion, And the religious.

Willows cut and ignored all of that, To take a few more petty jabs at religious people. His obsession probably caused him not to even see it.

You are the typical lying low IQ negroid.

And we can see from how you've misunderstood this thread, Who actually has the low IQ.
Harikrish
Posts: 29,018
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3/4/2019 5:19:48 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
ethang5 wrote:
Harikrish wrote:
ethang5 wrote:
Willows wrote:
Leaning wrote:
Perhaps I could have phrased my response on not bothering to talk with people I consider to be making deluded or insane arguments better. But I am satisfied with it. Whether a person is schizophrenic, Or simply so fixed in life on bizarre ideals or viewpoints, I don't see a point in discussing anything with them. Since I have no interest in conversation with such a person (Usually). I included theist and atheist, Because I did not wish to single out either belief. I am an atheist. I think that people who believe in afterlife religions are mistaken. But, They are still normal (To me). Everyone is deluded about something in life, Since we all have different viewpoints and beliefs (I think).

I still fail to see how it is a sour viewpoint. I do however apologize if I phrased that comment in such a way as it insulted you. I did not intend that.

bitter, Vile, And toxic. . . 'That, I do not apologize for. Though I am sorry I allowed myself to become angered by your taunt and insult.

One definition of bitter is
(of people or their feelings or behavior) angry, Hurt, Or resentful because of one's bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment.
You do often appear bitter to me in regards to religion. You post often enough about your own experiences to lead one to a conclusion that much of your anger toward it started in the past, And now colors your future.

One definition of vile is
extremely unpleasant.
At times I find you extremely unpleasant in your attitude and words toward religion and people.

One definition of toxic is
very bad, Unpleasant, Or harmful.
Have you ever heard of toxic bosses? Toxic leaders? Workplaces? I think that you often make the forums toxic in your zeal to insult and decry religion, And the religious.

If you find this reply unsatisfactory, Alright. All I can say is that it is an attempt to be honest. That I do not mean it as an insult. Though I am willing enough to admit being called bitter, Vile, And toxic would be insulting. Even willing to admit that perhaps I ought not to have said it. But right this second, Too much petty pride in me to apologize for it.

That's cool.
It is one thing to have delusions for whatever reason but what has always concerned me is the extent to which religious people have delusions.

Again, Most folk who call themselves religious are not really but just want to fit into a particular mold.
Those who do actually believe there is a God and an afterlife are deluded 24/7, That is a problem.

Wow. The idiot's obsession cut out everything leaning said about him.

Willows replied to leaning's post#22. In post # 24 Which you brought forward. Nothing was cut out from Leaning's post#22.

Leaning's post was about willowed. He said,

You do often appear bitter to me in regards to religion. You post often enough about your own experiences to lead one to a conclusion that much of your anger toward it started in the past, And now colors your future.

And,

At times I find you extremely unpleasant in your attitude and words toward religion and people.

And,

I think that you often make the forums toxic in your zeal to insult and decry religion, And the religious.

Willows cut and ignored all of that, To take a few more petty jabs at religious people. His obsession probably caused him not to even see it.

You are the typical lying low IQ negroid.

And we can see from how you've misunderstood this thread, Who actually has the low IQ.

So why did you quote post#24 instead of the relevant post? You lying low IQ negroid.

Ethang5: Lol. Of course I am African, Why do you keep talking about America?
Ethang said: Ok shithole. Trump never insulted India. But your shithole country is sure mad about something.

Ethang5 wrote: I live in Africa where I run Bibles to countries which outlaw the possession of Bibles. Been doing it for more than 15 years to many countries. I have 3 children.
Leaning
Posts: 2,611
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3/4/2019 9:37:40 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Reply to Willows post #24

To people at the extreme end of belief, I have trouble imagining anyone convincing them of anything other than their belief, And suspect that even if that were done, They would simply latch onto some other idea or belief system and take it to the extreme as well.

I do not mean that as a criticism of the religious. There are people in many professions and interests that people have that I think I would not be able to convince them in their monomania are not important as they think. Heck, I'm near one of those people in some interests.
ethang5
Posts: 18,957
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3/5/2019 3:54:56 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Harikrish wrote:
ethang5 wrote:

Wow. The idiot's obsession cut out everything leaning said about him.

Willows replied to leaning's post#22. In post # 24 Which you brought forward. Nothing was cut out from Leaning's post#22.

Leaning's post was about willowed. He said,

You do often appear bitter to me in regards to religion. You post often enough about your own experiences to lead one to a conclusion that much of your anger toward it started in the past, And now colors your future.

And,

At times I find you extremely unpleasant in your attitude and words toward religion and people.

And,

I think that you often make the forums toxic in your zeal to insult and decry religion, And the religious.

Willows cut and ignored all of that, To take a few more petty jabs at religious people. His obsession probably caused him not to even see it.

You are the typical lying low IQ negroid.

And we can see from how you've misunderstood this thread, Who actually has the low IQ.

So why did you quote post#24 instead of the relevant post?

Because my response was to Leaning you idiot.

You lying low IQ negroid.

Yet you are the stupid one thinking the "relevant" post is only one post.

Just post your repetitive stupidity moron. When ever you try to argue, You show yourself to be a blazing idiot.

Leave the thinking to people with brains, Stick to the mindless repetition.

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