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Calvinism's strongest Scriptural text

Kilk1
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3/27/2019 2:39:09 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Many say that the strongest evidence for Calvinism from the Bible is Romans 8:28-9:24. Having studied the passage from multiple sides, I'm not sure Calvinism is actually taught here. While 8:29-30 mentions that there are people God foreknew and that these people are predestined, Etc. , It doesn't reveal the means by which some are foreknown and others aren't. If the context does, It could be that God simply foreknows "those who love God" (8:28, NKJV)--allowing free will to be a factor.

Paul does mention in 9:10-12 how Jacob was chosen over Esau before they were born, Not "having done any good or evil. " However, To show this, He references Genesis 25:23 and Malachi 1:2-3, Passages that speak of Jacob's nation (Israel) versus Esau's nation (Edom), Not salvation/condemnation of the individuals. Furthermore, Wouldn't this have meant that even doing "evil" (v. 11) is irrelevant to being condemned? The only application Paul draws from this is that God's purpose is "not of works but of Him who calls. " Works are later contrasted with faith (vv. 30-32).

And although Paul says God "has mercy on whom He wills, And whom He wills He hardens" (v. 18), His example is Pharaoh (v. 17). To my knowledge, Almost no one claims that God's hardening was to make him wicked "but, " as Albert Barnes states, "to leave a sinner to his own course, And to place him in circumstances where the character will be more and more developed. "

Finally, And perhaps most crucially, Paul addresses the following question: If God uses sinners to accomplish His will, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will" (Rom. 9:19)? Paul answers these objecting question with rhetorical questions of his own. First, He asks, "But indeed, O man, Who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, 'Why have you made me like this? '" (v. 20). This sounds similar to Old Testament verses that Jews would accept (Isa. 29:16; 45:9).

But Paul continues the analogy in verse 21: "Does not the potter have power over the clay, From the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? " Thinking of God as potter and man as clay could be interpreted to mean He makes some of us to be good and others to be sinful. It especially could sound this way when He mentions making "one vessel for honor and another for dishonor. "

Do we follow or reject God based on how He fashions us, Or does He fashion us based on whether we follow or reject God? Paul asks us a question: "What if God, Wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. . . " (Rom. 9:22)? But God wouldn't be longsuffering toward people if He never intended for them to be saved, Would He? This suggests He does desire the vessels of wrath to repent and be saved!

Furthermore, By mentioning honorable and dishonorable vessels, Paul seems to be alluding to Jeremiah 18:1-10. Here, God discusses how a potter begins "making something at the wheel" (v. 3). However, The vessel ends up getting "marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, As it seemed good to the potter to make" (v. 4). Notice that while the potter was going to make one thing, The marring of the vessel led him to remake it "into another vessel. " In the same way, God says that if He decrees to destroy a nation (i. E. , Make them into a vessel of dishonor) but they repent, Then He'll change His plans for them (vv. 5-8). The same works in reverse as well (vv. 9-10).

When we go to the passages Paul quotes from and alludes to, Does it actually seem that this passage from Romans goes against the Calvinistic belief that man lacks free will to repent and follow God? Does God actually fashion us for honor or dishonor if we serve him, Rather than it being that we repent and serve Him based on how He fashions us? Please let me know if my line of thought is flawed here. Thanks!
anonthesmallone
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3/27/2019 7:31:31 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
When Paul uses the words saved or salvation, He is referring to the mortal body not being destroyed into dust, But living forever as a god or goddesses that Israel and some Gentiles were called and elected to experience. See for yourself:

Romans Chapter 8.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus [God holds not grudges of the past],
who do not walk according to the flesh, But according to the Spirit [they live in heaven].

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death [the dragon and the beast in us that kills us].
For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh [Mortal law and Golden rule will kill us of old age],
God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, On account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh [by being worthy of translation],
that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit [the Spirit has no laws against it. The light has no frequency. There is no laws in heaven].

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh [the focus is the frequency of the flesh that we die of old age],
but those who live according to the Spirit, The things of the Spirit [Life of the body]

For to be carnally minded is death [of old age],
but to be spiritually minded is life [of the body]
and peace [in the spirit orb while we work on Life by grace through faith]

Because the carnal mind [dragon of counterfeit love, Fear, Guilt and beast system]
is enmity against God [light that has no darkness];
for it is not subject to the law of God [for us mortals, Such as the Golden Rule],
nor indeed can be. So then, Those who are in the flesh cannot please God [Unless they obey the Golden Rule designed for mortals].

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit [predestinated by God by grace through faith],
if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you [if your are not Luciferian moles pretending to believe in Christ].
Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, He is not His [He secretly trusts in Lucifer and his dragon and beast system of self].
And if Christ is in you, The body is dead because of sin [the body will die of old age because of stupid ideas],
but the Spirit is life because of righteousness [We find our spirit orbs as little children in Christ's righteousness rather that the dragon and beast system of self-righteousness. We reflect and not absorb the light of God].

But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you [Yahweh Elohim, The Most High God],
He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your **mortal bodies** [to overcome death of old age]
through His Spirit who dwells in you [by walking in the light of God that has no darkness].

Therefore, Brethren, We are debtors not to the flesh [of Karma and sin],
to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die [physically];
but if by the Spirit [walk in the light]
you put to death the deeds of the body, You will live [physically by renewing the mind in the light by ignoring the deeds of the body to not save yourself by works, Which is impossible to do].
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, These are sons of God [who walk in His light].

For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear [of physical death and karma for sins in the past],
but you received the Spirit of adoption [by God who adopted you from the dragon of fear described in the last sentence]

by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father. " [by our spirit orbs and not our bodies]
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God [and God said; "Let there be light"],
and if children, Then heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ [of Abraham's promise to be gods and goddesses with immortal seed].

if indeed we suffer with Him, That we may also be glorified together [the straight, Narrow, And difficult path requires great sacrifice to develop the faith required to become a god or goddess. Angles do not require the suffering for they do not need the test of faith in sacrificing the will of self to God].

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us [as gods and goddesses].

For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, Not willingly, But because of Him who subjected it in hope [blood animals, Birds, Fish, And humans all have the same spirit-orbs individually]
because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption [of the mortal test of flesh frequency to know good and evil]
into the glorious liberty of the children of God [walking in the light].

For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now [When humans are being translated].
Not only that, But we also who have the first fruits of the Spirit [to know God],
even we ourselves groan within ourselves, Eagerly waiting for the adoption [from the dragon],
the redemption of our body [mortal to become immortal gods and goddesses].
For we were saved in this hope [to become gods and goddesses],
but hope that is seen is not hope [we are not translated yet];
for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see [today],
we eagerly wait for it [translation of the body]
with perseverance.

Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, But the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered [in audible words, But the ideas come straight from the heart in private prayer].
Now He who searches the hearts knows the mind of the Spirit is, Because He makes intercession for the saints [the elect]
according to the will of God [who gives every spirit orb what they asked for in eternity].

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, To those who are the called [and predestinated]
according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew [in a past life],
He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, That He [Yahweh Elohim]
might be the firstborn among many brethren [of the elect chosen to be gods and goddesses].

Moreover whom He predestined, These He also called; whom He called, These He also justified [by predestination by grace through faith];
and whom He justified, These He also glorified.

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us [by His predestination power],
who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, But delivered Him up for us all [to observe His trust and sacrifice of self will to find Himself as Adam],
how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? [We too are like reincarnated Adam]

Who shall bring a charge against God"s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, And furthermore is also risen, Who is even at the right hand of God, Who also makes intercession for us.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [by our walking in the light]
Shall tribulation, Or distress, Or persecution, Or famine, Or nakedness, Or peril, Or sword? As it is written:

"For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. "

Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us [by white grace].
For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, Nor angels nor principalities nor powers, Nor things present nor things to come, Nor height nor depth, Nor any other created thing, Shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord [to become gods and goddesses by predestination].
anonthesmallone
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3/27/2019 7:38:41 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
John 1:13 New King James Version (NKJV)

13 who were born, Not of blood, Nor of the will of the flesh, Nor of the will of man, But of God.

100% true. We are predestinated by God--either as gods, Goddesses, Or angels. This one verse says it all.
Harikrish
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3/27/2019 9:19:24 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Tradesecret wrote:
what about John 1:13?

Pretty trepid response from a part time pastor and lawyer and banker and bible smuggler.

Calvinism has many beliefs that undermine Jesus.

1. Predestination.
Jesus was predestined to be king.

Luke 1:31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, And you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob"s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end. "

But it ended badly for Jesus.
Luke 22:63 The men who were holding Jesus began to mock Him and beat Him.

Matthew 27: 35 When they had crucified him, They divided up his clothes by casting lots. 36 And sitting down, They kept watch over him there. 37 Above his head they placed the written charge against him: this is jesus, The king of the jews.

38 Two rebels were crucified with him, One on his right and one on his left. 39 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, Shaking their heads 40 and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, Save yourself! Come down from the cross, If you are the Son of God! " 41 In the same way the chief priests, The teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 "He saved others, " they said, "but he can"t save himself! He"s the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, And we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, For he said, "I am the Son of God. "" 44 In the same way the rebels who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

The Death of Jesus
45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, [a] lema sabachthani? " (which means "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me? "). [b]

What happened to the everlasting kingdom of David that was promised to Mary that Jesus would inherit?

Jesus lives in his fathers house and works as a housekeeper preparing rooms for guests.
John 14:2 In My Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, Would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

2. Self revelation. God is selective about who he picks to reveal his will.
But Jesus quoted other prophets.

Matthew 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place "the abomination that causes desolation, "[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand.

When Jesus was asked when will these things happen.
Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, The disciples came to him privately. "Tell us, " they said, "when will this happen, And what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? "

Jesus said he didn't know.
Matthew 24:36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, Not even the angels in heaven, Nor the Son, [f] but only the Father.

3. Limited atonement: This is the belief that God sent Jesus Christ to die for the sins of his chosen saints only, And not for the sins of those who are unbelievers.
But we know Jesus was killed by the sins of unbelievers.

It was the Romans who crucified Jesus. They were pagans and ignored Jesus's pleas.

4. Irresistible grace: This is the belief that God's chosen elect cannot resist God's grace in their lives.
John 17:12 KJV while I am in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, And none of them is lost, But the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

But we know Peter lied about Jesus and judas betrayed Jesus. And all the apostles were eventually put to death.

5. Total depravity: This is the belief that all human beings are sinful and are born with an inherent sin-nature. Every human is completely sinful from the moment of birth.

Jesus was conceived from an illicit union between God and a married woman Mary. God raped Mary in her sleep.

Luke 1:34 "How will this be, " Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin? "

35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come on you, And the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[b] the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, And she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail. "

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
Harikrish
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3/27/2019 9:20:28 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Kilk1 wrote:
Many say that the strongest evidence for Calvinism from the Bible is Romans 8:28-9:24. Having studied the passage from multiple sides, I'm not sure Calvinism is actually taught here. While 8:29-30 mentions that there are people God foreknew and that these people are predestined, Etc. , It doesn't reveal the means by which some are foreknown and others aren't. If the context does, It could be that God simply foreknows "those who love God" (8:28, NKJV)--allowing free will to be a factor.

Paul does mention in 9:10-12 how Jacob was chosen over Esau before they were born, Not "having done any good or evil. " However, To show this, He references Genesis 25:23 and Malachi 1:2-3, Passages that speak of Jacob's nation (Israel) versus Esau's nation (Edom), Not salvation/condemnation of the individuals. Furthermore, Wouldn't this have meant that even doing "evil" (v. 11) is irrelevant to being condemned? The only application Paul draws from this is that God's purpose is "not of works but of Him who calls. " Works are later contrasted with faith (vv. 30-32).

And although Paul says God "has mercy on whom He wills, And whom He wills He hardens" (v. 18), His example is Pharaoh (v. 17). To my knowledge, Almost no one claims that God's hardening was to make him wicked "but, " as Albert Barnes states, "to leave a sinner to his own course, And to place him in circumstances where the character will be more and more developed. "

Finally, And perhaps most crucially, Paul addresses the following question: If God uses sinners to accomplish His will, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will" (Rom. 9:19)? Paul answers these objecting question with rhetorical questions of his own. First, He asks, "But indeed, O man, Who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, 'Why have you made me like this? '" (v. 20). This sounds similar to Old Testament verses that Jews would accept (Isa. 29:16; 45:9).

But Paul continues the analogy in verse 21: "Does not the potter have power over the clay, From the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? " Thinking of God as potter and man as clay could be interpreted to mean He makes some of us to be good and others to be sinful. It especially could sound this way when He mentions making "one vessel for honor and another for dishonor. "

Do we follow or reject God based on how He fashions us, Or does He fashion us based on whether we follow or reject God? Paul asks us a question: "What if God, Wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. . . " (Rom. 9:22)? But God wouldn't be longsuffering toward people if He never intended for them to be saved, Would He? This suggests He does desire the vessels of wrath to repent and be saved!

Furthermore, By mentioning honorable and dishonorable vessels, Paul seems to be alluding to Jeremiah 18:1-10. Here, God discusses how a potter begins "making something at the wheel" (v. 3). However, The vessel ends up getting "marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, As it seemed good to the potter to make" (v. 4). Notice that while the potter was going to make one thing, The marring of the vessel led him to remake it "into another vessel. " In the same way, God says that if He decrees to destroy a nation (i. E. , Make them into a vessel of dishonor) but they repent, Then He'll change His plans for them (vv. 5-8). The same works in reverse as well (vv. 9-10).

When we go to the passages Paul quotes from and alludes to, Does it actually seem that this passage from Romans goes against the Calvinistic belief that man lacks free will to repent and follow God? Does God actually fashion us for honor or dishonor if we serve him, Rather than it being that we repent and serve Him based on how He fashions us? Please let me know if my line of thought is flawed here. Thanks!

Calvinism has many beliefs that undermine Jesus.

1. Predestination.
Jesus was predestined to be king.

Luke 1:31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob"s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end."

But it ended badly for Jesus.
Luke 22:63 The men who were holding Jesus began to mock Him and beat Him.

Matthew 27: 35 When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots. 36 And sitting down, they kept watch over him there. 37 Above his head they placed the written charge against him: this is jesus, the king of the jews.

38 Two rebels were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. 39 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads 40 and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!" 41 In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 "He saved others," they said, "but he can"t save himself! He"s the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, "I am the Son of God."" 44 In the same way the rebels who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

The Death of Jesus
45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli,[a] lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").[b]

What happened to the everlasting kingdom of David that was promised to Mary that Jesus would inherit?

Jesus lives in his fathers house and works as a housekeeper preparing rooms for guests.
John 14:2 In My Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

2. Self revelation. God is selective about who he picks to reveal his will.
But Jesus quoted other prophets.

Matthew 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place "the abomination that causes desolation,"[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand.

When Jesus was asked when will these things happen.
Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

Jesus said he didn't know.
Matthew 24:36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father.

3. Limited atonement: This is the belief that God sent Jesus Christ to die for the sins of his chosen saints only, and not for the sins of those who are unbelievers.
But we know Jesus was killed by the sins of unbelievers.

It was the Romans who crucified Jesus. They were pagans and ignored Jesus's pleas.

4. Irresistible grace: This is the belief that God's chosen elect cannot resist God's grace in their lives.
John 17:12 KJV while I am in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

But we know Peter lied about Jesus and judas betrayed Jesus. And all the apostles were eventually put to death.

5. Total depravity: This is the belief that all human beings are sinful and are born with an inherent sin-nature. Every human is completely sinful from the moment of birth.

Jesus was conceived from an illicit union between God and a married woman Mary. God raped Mary in her sleep.

Luke 1:34 "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?
Kilk1
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3/27/2019 9:49:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Hmm, I've been posting here, But nothing happens. Others are experiencing this as well. (Let's hope this one goes through. )
Kilk1
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3/27/2019 9:58:58 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I created a new, Hopefully less glitchy thread here:

https://www. Debate. Org/forums/religion/topic/4340585/

--Kilk
Harikrish
Posts: 29,225
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3/27/2019 9:59:18 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Kilk1 wrote:
Hmm, I've been posting here, But nothing happens. Others are experiencing this as well. (Let's hope this one goes through. )

If you are using reply and quote. On the top first line delete the time and date before the user name you are replying to.
Kilk1
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3/27/2019 10:04:50 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Harikrish wrote:
Kilk1 wrote:
Hmm, I've been posting here, But nothing happens. Others are experiencing this as well. (Let's hope this one goes through. )

If you are using reply and quote. On the top first line delete the time and date before the user name you are replying to.

Really? Thanks for letting me know! Also, Is there a way to make the first word after commas not be capitalized. It's been a while since I've been on DDO, But I don't remember these glitches before.
Harikrish
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3/27/2019 10:16:34 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Kilk1 wrote:
Harikrish wrote:
Kilk1 wrote:
Hmm, I've been posting here, But nothing happens. Others are experiencing this as well. (Let's hope this one goes through. )

If you are using reply and quote. On the top first line delete the time and date before the user name you are replying to.

Really? Thanks for letting me know! Also, Is there a way to make the first word after commas not be capitalized. It's been a while since I've been on DDO, But I don't remember these glitches before.

Sorry, There are more than a handful of problems introduced after the site went down to spamming.
1. It won't let you list http sites sometimes.
2. Words after commas are sometime capitalized.
3. Doesn't like string of periods.
4. Rumour has it the site has become racists.
5. Hindu mythology is becoming a Black fantasy.

Ironically a site which is very liberal on free speech has so many posts on African slavery.
Free the slaves is trending here.
anonthesmallone
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3/27/2019 11:10:38 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
***5. Total depravity: This is the belief that all human beings are sinful and are born with an inherent sin-nature. Every human is completely sinful from the moment of birth.

We are actually born into heaven as babies and as little children. We are very happy as long as the bodily needs are met and the baby and little child is loved by its parents. If the body becomes uncomfortable in any way. The baby or little child will cry because it can't care for the body alone by itself.

The idea we are born into sin is a theological concept that is not in the Bible and is false. When we grow older, The world drags us into the dragon and beast system of the world and we get lost in our deeds, Thoughts, Feelings, Things, Power, Position of authority, Money, Status. Etc. , And the goal of Christ is to help find that little lost child that was a creative spirit-orb full of life energy. The little child lived in heaven because it was poor in spirit and lowly of heart. The parents had all the power.
Harikrish
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3/27/2019 11:54:56 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
anonthesmallone wrote:
***5. Total depravity: This is the belief that all human beings are sinful and are born with an inherent sin-nature. Every human is completely sinful from the moment of birth.

We are actually born into heaven as babies and as little children. We are very happy as long as the bodily needs are met and the baby and little child is loved by its parents. If the body becomes uncomfortable in any way. The baby or little child will cry because it can't care for the body alone by itself.

The idea we are born into sin is a theological concept that is not in the Bible and is false. When we grow older, The world drags us into the dragon and beast system of the world and we get lost in our deeds, Thoughts, Feelings, Things, Power, Position of authority, Money, Status. Etc. , And the goal of Christ is to help find that little lost child that was a creative spirit-orb full of life energy. The little child lived in heaven because it was poor in spirit and lowly of heart. The parents had all the power.

I don't know how you can separate Christian theology from the Bible.

"Christian theology is the theology of Christian belief and practice. Such study concentrates primarily upon the texts of the Old Testament and of the New Testament, As well as on Christian tradition. Christian theologians use biblical exegesis, Rational analysis and argument. " Wikipedia

You were asked for the source of your theology. You said you don't have any source for your own theology. But you take characters and stories from the bible and still deny its authenticity.
anonthesmallone
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3/28/2019 5:06:26 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
John 3:5-6 New King James Version (NKJV)

Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, Unless one is born of water [a woman's womb] and the Spirit, He cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh [mortal], And that which is born of the Spirit is spirit [immortal].

According to the Lord, We are born again by the Spirit when we are translated or resurrected into a new body. Duh!
ethang5
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3/28/2019 6:25:05 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Harikrish wrote:
anonthesmallone wrote:

You were asked for the source of your theology. You said you don't have any source for your own theology. But you take characters and stories from the bible and still deny its authenticity.

The bible is a book of lies and contradictions. - Hindu hari
The curse of Ham is biblical! - Hindu hari
The God of the bible is a lair and a lunatic. - Hindu hari
The bible supports my research that God cursed all blacks. - Hindu hari

You take characters and stories from the bible and still deny its authenticity.

We call this self-contradiction. Stop projecting and address your fallacies.
ethang5
Posts: 19,021
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3/28/2019 6:32:01 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Harikrish wrote:
Kilk1 wrote:

Hmm, I've been posting here, But nothing happens. Others are experiencing this as well. (Let's hope this one goes through. )

If you are using reply and quote. On the top first line delete the time and date before the user name you are replying to.

Really? Thanks for letting me know! Also, Is there a way to make the first word after commas not be capitalized. It's been a while since I've been on DDO, But I don't remember these glitches before.

There is a thread called "If Your Post Fails, Do This 2" that gives you pointers on how to successfully post, But Hindu hari spams it, So you have skip over his spam.

If you have observations or questions you can put them there too.
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,546
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3/28/2019 6:33:12 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Calvinism is Christianity. Christians are either Calvinists or closet Calvinists. But be mindful, Most Calvinists would never refer to themselves as Calvinists - because like Calvin - the gospel is all about Jesus, Not John Calvin.

There are many threads of what it means to be Calvinist or Reformed. And many people who are Calvinist. Spurgeon, C S Lewis. Warfield. John McArthur. A W Pink. Johnathon Edwards. Whitfield. Martyn Lloyd Jones. Calvin would probably put himself in the Augustine line - the Athanasius line.

some use the TULIP acronym. And although it is useful - we need to remember it was drafted as a response to the Catholic doctrines in the Reformation.

T - total depravity. This means - everyone is a sinner. No one is perfect.
U - unconditional election - This means - we can't do anything to save our selves. We can't buy or purchase it. We can't work for it. We are not a particular race - or colour or even religion. God saves - - we can't earn it.
L - limited atonement - this means not everyone is going to heaven. Some people will go to Hell.
I - Irresistible Grace - this means that those God has chosen will be saved - like Paul even though he did not want it.
P - Perseverance of the Saints - that those God calls - that those God started with - he will complete - It relies on God's promises.

Basically the essence of the Reformed view is that "salvation belongs to the Lord". And that he metes it out to who he so desires according to his own will.
anonthesmallone
Posts: 4,021
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3/28/2019 1:26:20 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
"Therefore I say to you, Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, But the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, It will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, It will not be forgiven him, Either in this age or in the age to come. "
Harikrish
Posts: 29,225
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3/28/2019 2:10:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Calvinism is Christianity. Christians are either Calvinists or closet Calvinists. But be mindful, Most Calvinists would never refer to themselves as Calvinists - because like Calvin - the gospel is all about Jesus, Not John Calvin.

Calvinism is not Christianity that is why it is called Calvinism.

There are many threads of what it means to be Calvinist or Reformed. And many people who are Calvinist. Spurgeon, C S Lewis. Warfield. John McArthur. A W Pink. Johnathon Edwards. Whitfield. Martyn Lloyd Jones. Calvin would probably put himself in the Augustine line - the Athanasius line.

some use the TULIP acronym. And although it is useful - we need to remember it was drafted as a response to the Catholic doctrines in the Reformation.

T - total depravity. This means - everyone is a sinner. No one is perfect.
U - unconditional election - This means - we can't do anything to save our selves. We can't buy or purchase it. We can't work for it. We are not a particular race - or colour or even religion. God saves - - we can't earn it.
L - limited atonement - this means not everyone is going to heaven. Some people will go to Hell.
I - Irresistible Grace - this means that those God has chosen will be saved - like Paul even though he did not want it.
P - Perseverance of the Saints - that those God calls - that those God started with - he will complete - It relies on God's promises.

Basically the essence of the Reformed view is that "salvation belongs to the Lord". And that he metes it out to who he so desires according to his own will.

Calvinism has many beliefs that undermine Jesus.

1. Predestination.
Jesus was predestined to be king.
Luke 1:31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, And you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob"s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end. "

But it ended badly for Jesus.
Luke 22:63 The men who were holding Jesus began to mock Him and beat Him.

Matthew 27: 35 When they had crucified him, They divided up his clothes by casting lots. 36 And sitting down, They kept watch over him there. 37 Above his head they placed the written charge against him: this is jesus, The king of the jews.

38 Two rebels were crucified with him, One on his right and one on his left. 39 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, Shaking their heads 40 and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, Save yourself! Come down from the cross, If you are the Son of God! " 41 In the same way the chief priests, The teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 "He saved others, " they said, "but he can"t save himself! He"s the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, And we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, For he said, "I am the Son of God. "" 44 In the same way the rebels who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

The Death of Jesus
45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, [a] lema sabachthani? " (which means "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me? "). [b]

What happened to the everlasting kingdom of David that was promised to Mary that Jesus would inherit?

Jesus lives in his fathers house and works as a housekeeper preparing rooms for guests.
John 14:2 In My Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, Would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

2. Self revelation. God is selective about who he picks to reveal his will.
But Jesus quoted other prophets.
Matthew 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place "the abomination that causes desolation, "[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand.

When Jesus was asked when will these things happen.
Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, The disciples came to him privately. "Tell us, " they said, "when will this happen, And what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? "

Jesus said he didn't know.
Matthew 24:36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, Not even the angels in heaven, Nor the Son, [f] but only the Father.

3. Limited atonement: This is the belief that God sent Jesus Christ to die for the sins of his chosen saints only, And not for the sins of those who are unbelievers.
But we know Jesus was killed by the sins of unbelievers.
It was the Romans who crucified Jesus. They were pagans and ignored Jesus's pleas.

4. Irresistible grace: This is the belief that God's chosen elect cannot resist God's grace in their lives.
John 17:12 KJV while I am in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, And none of them is lost, But the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

But we know Peter lied about Jesus and judas betrayed Jesus. And all the apostles were eventually put to death.

5. Total depravity: This is the belief that all human beings are sinful and are born with an inherent sin-nature. Every human is completely sinful from the moment of birth.

Jesus was conceived from an illicit union between God and a married woman Mary. God raped Mary in her sleep.

Luke 1:34 "How will this be, " Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin? "

35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come on you, And the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[b] the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, And she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail. "

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
ethang5
Posts: 19,021
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3/28/2019 3:16:27 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
The bible is a book of lies and contradictions. - Hindu hari
The curse of Ham is biblical! - Hindu hari
The God of the bible is a lair and a lunatic. - Hindu hari
The bible supports my research that God cursed all blacks. - Hindu hari

You take characters and stories from the bible and still deny its authenticity.

We call this self-contradiction. Stop projecting and address your fallacies.

Hypocrite.
Harikrish
Posts: 29,225
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3/28/2019 5:00:45 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
ethang5 wrote:
The bible is a book of lies and contradictions. - Hindu hari
The curse of Ham is biblical! - Hindu hari
The God of the bible is a lair and a lunatic. - Hindu hari
The bible supports my research that God cursed all blacks. - Hindu hari

You take characters and stories from the bible and still deny its authenticity.

We call this self-contradiction. Stop projecting and address your fallacies.

Hypocrite.
You are nothing but a low IQ black negroid delivery mule. You have nothing to contribute to our discussions because they are all beyond your scope. Being a delivery mule for over 15 years has dulled your curiosity and stunted your intellectual development which has further reduced your IQ to below what a low IQ black negroid is cursed with.

Calvinism has many beliefs that undermine Jesus.

1. Predestination.
Jesus was predestined to be king.
Luke 1:31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, And you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob"s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end. "

But it ended badly for Jesus.
Luke 22:63 The men who were holding Jesus began to mock Him and beat Him.

Matthew 27: 35 When they had crucified him, They divided up his clothes by casting lots. 36 And sitting down, They kept watch over him there. 37 Above his head they placed the written charge against him: this is jesus, The king of the jews.

38 Two rebels were crucified with him, One on his right and one on his left. 39 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, Shaking their heads 40 and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, Save yourself! Come down from the cross, If you are the Son of God! " 41 In the same way the chief priests, The teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 "He saved others, " they said, "but he can"t save himself! He"s the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, And we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, For he said, "I am the Son of God. "" 44 In the same way the rebels who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

The Death of Jesus
45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, [a] lema sabachthani? " (which means "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me? "). [b]

What happened to the everlasting kingdom of David that was promised to Mary that Jesus would inherit?

Jesus lives in his fathers house and works as a housekeeper preparing rooms for guests.
John 14:2 In My Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, Would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

2. Self revelation. God is selective about who he picks to reveal his will.
But Jesus quoted other prophets.
Matthew 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place "the abomination that causes desolation, "[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand.

When Jesus was asked when will these things happen.
Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, The disciples came to him privately. "Tell us, " they said, "when will this happen, And what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? "

Jesus said he didn't know.
Matthew 24:36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, Not even the angels in heaven, Nor the Son, [f] but only the Father.

3. Limited atonement: This is the belief that God sent Jesus Christ to die for the sins of his chosen saints only, And not for the sins of those who are unbelievers.
But we know Jesus was killed by the sins of unbelievers.
It was the Romans who crucified Jesus. They were pagans and ignored Jesus's pleas.

4. Irresistible grace: This is the belief that God's chosen elect cannot resist God's grace in their lives.
John 17:12 KJV while I am in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, And none of them is lost, But the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

But we know Peter lied about Jesus and judas betrayed Jesus. And all the apostles were eventually put to death.

5. Total depravity: This is the belief that all human beings are sinful and are born with an inherent sin-nature. Every human is completely sinful from the moment of birth.

Jesus was conceived from an illicit union between God and a married woman Mary. God raped Mary in her sleep.

Luke 1:34 "How will this be, " Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin? "

35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come on you, And the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[b] the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, And she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail. "

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
Kilk1
Posts: 304
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3/28/2019 7:59:27 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Sorry everyone, But DDO's forum has become so glitchy since the last time I was here, That I just created an account on another site. If you'd like to discuss Romans 8 and 9, Go here:

https://tinyurl. Com/y2pwdwva

In fact, Even the link above probably glitched out. (I can't tell yet until the post is submitted. ) If so, Copy the broken link, Paste it in your address bar, And remove the spaces that DDO's thread created.

See you there,
Kilk1
ethang5
Posts: 19,021
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3/28/2019 8:46:27 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
You are the one using the stories and then denying the truth of it.

The bible supports my idiot "research! ". - Hindu hari
The bible is lies! - Hindu hari

We call this self-contradiction. Stop projecting and address your fallacies you dumb cluck.
Harikrish
Posts: 29,225
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3/28/2019 9:15:11 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
ethang5 wrote:
You are the one using the stories and then denying the truth of it.

The bible supports my idiot "research! ". - Hindu hari
The bible is lies! - Hindu hari

We call this self-contradiction. Stop projecting and address your fallacies you dumb cluck.

You are nothing but a low IQ black negroid delivery mule. You have nothing to contribute to our discussions because they are all beyond your scope. Being a delivery mule for over 15 years has dulled your curiosity and stunted your intellectual development which has further reduced your IQ to below what a low IQ black negroid is cursed with.

Calvinism has many beliefs that undermine Jesus.

1. Predestination.
Jesus was predestined to be king.
Luke 1:31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, And you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob"s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end. "

But it ended badly for Jesus.
Luke 22:63 The men who were holding Jesus began to mock Him and beat Him.

Matthew 27: 35 When they had crucified him, They divided up his clothes by casting lots. 36 And sitting down, They kept watch over him there. 37 Above his head they placed the written charge against him: this is jesus, The king of the jews.

38 Two rebels were crucified with him, One on his right and one on his left. 39 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, Shaking their heads 40 and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, Save yourself! Come down from the cross, If you are the Son of God! " 41 In the same way the chief priests, The teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 "He saved others, " they said, "but he can"t save himself! He"s the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, And we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, For he said, "I am the Son of God. "" 44 In the same way the rebels who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

The Death of Jesus
45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, [a] lema sabachthani? " (which means "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me? "). [b]

What happened to the everlasting kingdom of David that was promised to Mary that Jesus would inherit?

Jesus lives in his fathers house and works as a housekeeper preparing rooms for guests.
John 14:2 In My Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, Would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

2. Self revelation. God is selective about who he picks to reveal his will.
But Jesus quoted other prophets.
Matthew 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place "the abomination that causes desolation, "[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand.

When Jesus was asked when will these things happen.
Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, The disciples came to him privately. "Tell us, " they said, "when will this happen, And what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? "

Jesus said he didn't know.
Matthew 24:36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, Not even the angels in heaven, Nor the Son, [f] but only the Father.

3. Limited atonement: This is the belief that God sent Jesus Christ to die for the sins of his chosen saints only, And not for the sins of those who are unbelievers.
But we know Jesus was killed by the sins of unbelievers.
It was the Romans who crucified Jesus. They were pagans and ignored Jesus's pleas.

4. Irresistible grace: This is the belief that God's chosen elect cannot resist God's grace in their lives.
John 17:12 KJV while I am in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, And none of them is lost, But the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

But we know Peter lied about Jesus and judas betrayed Jesus. And all the apostles were eventually put to death.

5. Total depravity: This is the belief that all human beings are sinful and are born with an inherent sin-nature. Every human is completely sinful from the moment of birth.

Jesus was conceived from an illicit union between God and a married woman Mary. God raped Mary in her sleep.

Luke 1:34 "How will this be, " Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin? "

35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come on you, And the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[b] the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, And she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail. "

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,546
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3/29/2019 12:53:33 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Calvinism has many beliefs that undermine Jesus.

If this is the case - you have yet to demonstrate it. So don't bother repeating what you have written. Repeating it does not make it true and it does not make you correct. It only reveals you don't have anything original to add.

1. Predestination.
Jesus was predestined to be king.


You don't have a clue, Do you? Every Christian denomination in history believes Jesus was predestined to be king - but what you miss is that they actually say he was born king. The irony of your post is that predestination is not about Jesus being king, It is about God choosing - predestinating his elect people to be saved. You completely goosed it up. Idiot.

2. Self revelation. God is selective about who he picks to reveal his will.


Again you reveal your ignorance. Gobsmacking really. Not only do you not understand Calvinism - but you don't even understand self-revelation. Before I became a Calvinist I believed in self-revelation. Go and read some books. It is not exclusive to Calvinists - and does not distinguish a Calvinist from other Christian. Ignorant.

3. Limited atonement: This is the belief that God sent Jesus Christ to die for the sins of his chosen saints only, And not for the sins of those who are unbelievers.
But we know Jesus was killed by the sins of unbelievers.
It was the Romans who crucified Jesus. They were pagans and ignored Jesus's pleas.


Well at least you have one correct. You have distorted the truth - but at least are sort of able to grasp it. Limited means Jesus' atonement was limited in scope. The Arminian view - says Jesus died for all. In either case - you still look like an idiot because you don't understand what is being discussed. You need to go back to basics - kindergarten. Perhaps you ought to learn how to read English - rather than just using google translate.

what I said above makes sense of this doctrine. It is a doctrine of assurance - and essentially notes that not every person is going to Heaven. Some people are going to Hell. Limited atonement means that every person Jesus died for is going to Heaven. If he died for all, Then all have been saved. Many people prefer the latter - it is more comforting for them somehow. For me - it makes everything less reliable and gives no comfort because it turns salvation around and makes it my issue.

4. Irresistible grace: This is the belief that God's chosen elect cannot resist God's grace in their lives.
John 17:12 KJV while I am in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, And none of them is lost, But the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


WOW! A second doctrine - who would have thought it? LOL! Your response from the Scriptures is a common one used to try and refute this doctrine. Of course it does not refute it because it mixes up "grace" with "gavest me". The former is talking about eternal salvation - and the latter is talking about temporal assistance on earth for Jesus. The both should not be confused since Jesus clearly died after Judas died - already the son of perdition.

5. Total depravity: This is the belief that all human beings are sinful and are born with an inherent sin-nature. Every human is completely sinful from the moment of birth.

Good to see you are getting closer. You are not close to the kingdom - but at least you are starting to get to know some of the good doctrines. This one for instance reminds us that you Harikrish are a sinner and need of salvation. You Harikrish, Were born a sinner and remain a sinner until Jesus washes your sins clean. You Harikrish are going to Hell unless you repent of your sins, Ask God for forgiveness, And the Spirit of God baptises you.

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