Total Posts:31|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Criticisms of Islam

TheChristWithin
Posts: 977
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 2:38:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am going to argue here that Islam, as revealed to the world through the Prophet Muhammad is a masterpiece. Before you think I am advocating Islam as truth, you will see that the conclusion I draw is very different from what you are expecting.

At the foundation of all Scripture of the God of Moses and Abraham, you find the first book of Moses which is Genesis. This book contains the solution to all religion. Much of the argument over who's God is the true God, God provides a proof within Genesis, which all religion, including Islam especially, must understand first before making ANY claims.

Here is the truncated reasoning:

God is Truth
Satan is Deception
Satan was cast from Heaven due to Pride.

God gives a beautiful example of Divine Judgment:

1. Deceivers through subtle suggestion (serpent)
2. Victims whose desire allowed deception to enter within (Eve)
3. Victims whose lack of judgment allowed suggestion to overcome (Adam)

If one treats these three stages as "representative" of the three stages deception enters and overcomes within a single person, it becomes clear. If you intentionally deceive, you are completely in the wrong. If you allow your desire to overcome your judgment, you have let your guard down and opened the door to deception. If you completely lack ability to reason, you are blind.

What does any of this have to do with Islam?

One needs to realize that "God" and "Satan" are two sides of the same coin, they are both components of the dualistic nature of the physical universe. One must then understand that both have "equal" claims to eternal knowledge. Everything God knows, Satan knows. Immediately then, any claims of "Divine Authority" are immediately suspect and must be subject to honest inquiry.

As to Islam itself, one need not open the book to determine whether or not it is the true word of God. The only claim that needs to be dealt with is:

"Is the Quran truly the Perfect Word of the true God?"
If yes, then it is so.
If no, then it is either the work of man and/or Satan.

Satan himself has no power. He can only manipulate the mind through subtle suggestion. This is the entire point of the first story. Satan has absolutely zero power over any being, until that being opens themselves to deception through their own weakness. Therefore Satan exploits psychological weakness.

All of the "Scientific Miracles" in the Quran, whether true or not, are erroneously and blindly given credit to the "true" God. Let's remember, God and Satan both have equal claims to knowledge, and therefore this essentially proves nothing. A Holy Book will appear to be Holy to an individual who has allowed their own deception to see it as such. However, there is one difference. Satan has sole ownership of the subtlety of deception. God has sole ownership of truth. How does one reconcile this?

One must understand that deception "evolves" over time. Minds are "bent" very slowly and steadily over time. Certain false beliefs must be in place before other false beliefs can be imposed atop the ones which came before it. That's the nature of deception - one false belief opens the door to yet another, and so on.

Where does Islam go wrong? They are deceived into believing that the scriptures which came before it have been "changed", therefore are unreliable, therefore can no longer be trusted.

It is true that scriptures were changed. But a Muslim is far too quick to dismiss them entirely. The scriptures still contains the foundation from which to understand our origin (such as Genesis), but as we read on, we must take note of what was changed and why. One can see this as a bad thing, but also a very good one. Here then is an example of people eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. We get to witness and learn from it. If you throw out the thing entirely, you risk falling victim to dogmatic beliefs. Dogmatism here would refer to, you believe one thing, and one thing only, no matter what, because you have been "programmed" to do so.

When it comes to science, it is an entire wealth of information one can use to test many of the claims of any book, if one is willing to do the honest work. For example, the teachings of Jesus can be viewed in the light of science:

Jesus claimed such things as:
You are the light of the world.
If your eye be single you shall be filled with light.

Science claims of light:
Consciousness is electromagnetic impulses, therefore light.
We are all one "consciousness" living in a holographic universe.

If we take Jesus' teachings and merge it with science, we get:
You are the consciousness of the world.
If your eye be single, you shall be filled with consciousness.

The same authority that Muslims claim is within the Quran, is also found within the Bible. The Bible is absolutely loaded with references to symbolic explanations, cosmological processes, internal processes of one's own psychology etc. but they typically seem to discredit them entirely and only listen to one source. Does God intend this? Does Satan intend this?

If someone makes honest attempt to go back further before scripture, modern claims of science suggest that our universe is a hologram. The Mayan civilizations who predate everything "holy" claimed this world was an "illusion" or "reflection". Why is this important? Because it is a civilization that is claiming to know something well before Jesus or Muhammad did, and they were correct. What are the implications of this?

Consider a lenticular print. This is a picture which creates an "optical illusion" whereby from one angle, it appears as one thing, yet from another angle, it appears as something entirely different. Now consider the Quran in this context. I want you to imagine that it will only ever reflect back whatever is the content of the mind itself.

Satan tempts Jesus:
"All these kingdoms shall be yours, if you bow down and worship me."

Jesus said not a chance in hell, but how do Muslims answer to this?

If they believe that 'Allah" is the "true" God, and that the Quran is perfect, they are allowing themselves to believe that only Muslims have true "wisdom" and "intellect" which surpasses that of infidels. Who is really speaking here? Does this sound like God, or Satan? Consider pride. Of course it's not in black and white in a single statement, more spread over an entire book, but is this the message being portrayed?

Muslims believe it is their right to inherit this earth, and they can only do so when they have eradicated all non-believers. Yet not only does science say the entire place is a hologram, so did the Mayans whose ancestors built the pyramids. What exactly do they think they are acquiring by doing this?

And so here comes the blind truth. I believe the Quran is indeed a masterpiece, but it was co-authored. I don't mean literally, I mean it was designed to "harvest" souls. This book not only gives "Divine" authority that convinces people to conquer the earth, but it brings moderate Muslims to see it as peaceful despite their blind submission to it.

In effect what we have is truly a masterpiece of deception. What's more is, the solutions to all of these problems are out in the open. Science can prove why such commandments as "though shalt not bear false witness" is in direct violation to the cosmic law, yet people believe in "prophets" whose actions they could not themselves witness are not only divine but "perfect". We know that consciousness creates reality now, and that reality is therefore an "illusion" of our own psychology, which validates the statement "as above, so below".

So does the one in "submission" to Allah, actually have the right God? If truth must be hidden in plain sight, is it not any wonder why Muslims are those who "submit" themselves? I submit myself to life itself, and not any one source of information. Certainly none that claims itself as "God's Perfect Word".
List of Trolls (ongoing)
21stCenturyIconoclast
bulproof
Deb-8-A-Bull
dee-em
Gentorev
Goldtop
Harikrish

List of Racists (ongoing)
Harikrish (blacks and Jews)
Mingodalia (white males)
uncung
Posts: 4,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 4:23:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
And the conclusion is...??
Is Quran the true word from God?
Is the Torah or Bible in original form as the inspired word from God purely? or are they mixing with personal men's words?
what satan can do actually? how to distinguish between the satan work and divine's one?
How to examine the truth, what criteria supposedly we use?
where do you get the religious term such holy book, satan, God, and soon?
TheChristWithin
Posts: 977
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 4:55:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 4:23:02 AM, uncung wrote:
And the conclusion is...??

The Quran, therefore Islam, is a masterpiece of deception. It instills pride within people to believe that they are people of "God", while they are actually people of "Allah" who is "the best of planners".

Is Quran the true word from God?

It is certainly the word of "Allah", but that doesn't mean it is from "God".

Is the Torah or Bible in original form as the inspired word from God purely? or are they mixing with personal men's words?

These scriptures have been altered. People fall into the trap of allowing that to "discredit" them as sources of information. The alterations are actually a means to developing further understanding, rather than limiting understanding. When you see deception at work, you understand deception and how to avoid it.

what Satan can do actually? how to distinguish between the Satan work and divine's one?

Satan is not real, it is only a concept used to describe "evil" or "deception". Everyone has their own obligation to avoid deception, as Genesis teaches. Deception can not force itself upon you, you can only fall victim to it, as I suggest not only all established religions have, but Muslims in particular. One distinguishes between the two by doing what Jesus said, to enter within one's own self. That is the only "pure" conduit through which to come closer to what you refer to as "God". Islam takes the attention away from Jesus and places it on Muhammad.

How to examine the truth, what criteria supposedly we use?

Everything in the world contains half truths. Conspiracy theorists will claim that "Satan" can only operate by hiding the truth in plain sight, either to mock people or display his pride out in the open. You have to strip yourself of pride and ego and what you think you know about God. Religious people don't do this, and Islam has fallen into the trap of believing "Allah" is God, who is right out in the open claiming to be the best of planners. God's plan is for leading you as an individual, when you search inside yourself. Satan's plan is to deceive you through your five senses, which are all external.

where do you get the religious term such holy book, Satan, God, and soon?

Islam claims the Quran is the "Perfect Word of God". Scripture in general is referred to as "the holy books" because they discuss holy subjects. The original word for "God" was Elohim, but this was changed. God and Satan are names given to denote the two forces in the world: good and evil. God and Satan are not real, they are only caricatures of something that doesn't actually exist.

The point behind my post was to shed light on the fact that not only is Islam the product of deception, it teaches deception and its use until all its inhabitants either convert to Islam, pay tribute while Islam rises, and subsequently infidels left over are to be killed off. This is all predicated on the belief that Muslims are "superior" to infidels because their "wisdom and intellect" are superior. This is a conduit through which pride can grow within a mortal, and this pride is granted by divine authority. Satan was cast out of heaven due to his pride.

I am not saying Muslims are bad people. In fact much of what is taught in Islam are good teachings. Muslims are among the nicest people I have ever met. There is a Muslim girl I used to date and still have feelings for, because she would never hurt a fly. She views Islam as purely a religion of peace when interpreted correctly. However, I believe they are victims to a level of deception that is being blinded by their own pride, or confidence that Islam is, without a doubt, the true word of God.
List of Trolls (ongoing)
21stCenturyIconoclast
bulproof
Deb-8-A-Bull
dee-em
Gentorev
Goldtop
Harikrish

List of Racists (ongoing)
Harikrish (blacks and Jews)
Mingodalia (white males)
uncung
Posts: 4,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 5:38:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 4:55:59 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
At 1/22/2017 4:23:02 AM, uncung wrote:
And the conclusion is...??

The Quran, therefore Islam, is a masterpiece of deception.

what is your proof?

It instills pride within people to believe that they are people of "God", while they are actually people of "Allah" who is "the best of planners".

But Allah is the true God.


Is Quran the true word from God?

It is certainly the word of "Allah", but that doesn't mean it is from "God".

the same answer.


Is the Torah or Bible in original form as the inspired word from God purely? or are they mixing with personal men's words?

These scriptures have been altered. People fall into the trap of allowing that to "discredit" them as sources of information. The alterations are actually a means to developing further understanding, rather than limiting understanding. When you see deception at work, you understand deception and how to avoid it.

yes or no?


what Satan can do actually? how to distinguish between the Satan work and divine's one?

Satan is not real, it is only a concept used to describe "evil" or "deception".
but you keep talking about satan. and you point him as a the deceitful figure.

Everyone has their own obligation to avoid deception, as Genesis teaches.
what is genesis you talk about? why do you put a trust in it?

Deception can not force itself upon you, you can only fall victim to it, as I suggest not only all established religions have, but Muslims in particular.
do you mean muslims are deceived by the truth?

One distinguishes between the two by doing what Jesus said, to enter within one's own self. That is the only "pure" conduit through which to come closer to what you refer to as "God". Islam takes the attention away from Jesus and places it on Muhammad.

They both were the prophets of Allah.

How to examine the truth, what criteria supposedly we use?

Everything in the world contains half truths. Conspiracy theorists will claim that "Satan" can only operate by hiding the truth in plain sight, either to mock people or display his pride out in the open. You have to strip yourself of pride and ego and what you think you know about God. Religious people don't do this, and Islam has fallen into the trap of believing "Allah" is God, who is right out in the open claiming to be the best of planners. God's plan is for leading you as an individual, when you search inside yourself. Satan's plan is to deceive you through your five senses, which are all external.

Allah is the God. Disprove it.
You keep talking about satan yet you disbelieve his existence. what a paradox lady you are .

where do you get the religious term such holy book, Satan, God, and soon?

Islam claims the Quran is the "Perfect Word of God".

yes that claim is true.

Scripture in general is referred to as "the holy books" because they discuss holy subjects. The original word for "God" was Elohim,

I had never heard the people call their God as elohim. such, o elohim help me..

but this was changed. God and Satan are names given to denote the two forces in the world: good and evil. God and Satan are not real, they are only caricatures of something that doesn't actually exist.

if God was not real then who created the universe?


The point behind my post was to shed light on the fact that not only is Islam the product of deception, it teaches deception and its use until all its inhabitants either convert to Islam,
THEN ISLAM DECEIVE THE PEOPLE TO BELIEVE IN THE TRUTH.

pay tribute while Islam rises, and subsequently infidels left over are to be killed off.

killing is not always the bad thing.

This is all predicated on the belief that Muslims are "superior" to infidels because their "wisdom and intellect" are superior. This is a conduit through which pride can grow within a mortal, and this pride is granted by divine authority. Satan was cast out of heaven due to his pride.
Muslims are better than non muslims because Muslims inherit the salvation and paradise in hereafter, while non Muslims will go to hell certainly.


I am not saying Muslims are bad people. In fact much of what is taught in Islam are good teachings. Muslims are among the nicest people I have ever met. There is a Muslim girl I used to date and still have feelings for, because she would never hurt a fly. She views Islam as purely a religion of peace when interpreted correctly. However, I believe they are victims to a level of deception that is being blinded by their own pride, or confidence that Islam is, without a doubt, the true word of God.

yes we Muslims are the victims of the truth named islam.
TheChristWithin
Posts: 977
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 5:54:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It is clear that Allah is your true God. It is clear to me that Allah, in your case, is actually Satan.

The proof is in you. You have been filled with pride, such to the extend that you believe you are superior to other mortals. You have not the ability to understand that God, or Satan, or "Allah" are not real beings, they only exist insofar as your own internal pride allows. You believe you have divine authority to believe that you are superior, but this is exactly the deception at play.

You have not the ability to realize that you are deceived. It is this way by design. The Quran is the conduit through which one allows their own inner pride to manifest. Exactly the same way Satan offers the kingdom of the earth to Jesus, it is being offered to you. You openly allow yourself to believe that all of the earth is rightfully yours, because "Allah" wills it to be so. Your ideology is predicated on your own inner deception. Satan has deceived you into thinking you are going to inherit the earth and go to "heaven", but little do you realize he is actually making you build your own hell. If Satan is the owner of pride, and you have so much pride in your beliefs that "Allah" is the true God, you have fallen directly into the trap.

Jesus taught the true kingdom of God is within you. Muhammad is telling you the instructions to the kingdom of God is written in his book. Jesus said to the people: "you haven taken the key away, for you enter not within yourself". The same is true for you. You have taken Satan up on his offer to inherit the earth.

With regard to understanding how to "spot" deception, this man is very eloquent in his delivery:

I'll end by saying, your own blind inhibitions to believe ANY single source of information as "definitive" has blinded you from the truth.
List of Trolls (ongoing)
21stCenturyIconoclast
bulproof
Deb-8-A-Bull
dee-em
Gentorev
Goldtop
Harikrish

List of Racists (ongoing)
Harikrish (blacks and Jews)
Mingodalia (white males)
uncung
Posts: 4,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 6:13:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 5:54:12 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
It is clear that Allah is your true God. It is clear to me that Allah, in your case, is actually Satan.

prove it.

The proof is in you. You have been filled with pride, such to the extend that you believe you are superior to other mortals. You have not the ability to understand that God, or Satan, or "Allah" are not real beings, they only exist insofar as your own internal pride allows. You believe you have divine authority to believe that you are superior, but this is exactly the deception at play.

They are real.

You have not the ability to realize that you are deceived.
you do mean deceived by the truth.

It is this way by design. The Quran is the conduit through which one allows their own inner pride to manifest. Exactly the same way Satan offers the kingdom of the earth to Jesus, it is being offered to you.

who told you satan offers the kingdom?
what kind of satan kingdom is it?
how satan offers his kingdom? when? where?

You openly allow yourself to believe that all of the earth is rightfully yours, because "Allah" wills it to be so. Your ideology is predicated on your own inner deception. Satan has deceived you into thinking you are going to inherit the earth and go to "heaven", but little do you realize he is actually making you build your own hell. If Satan is the owner of pride, and you have so much pride in your beliefs that "Allah" is the true God, you have fallen directly into the trap.

who told you that?


Jesus taught the true kingdom of God is within you.
there is no kingdom inside me.

Muhammad is telling you the instructions to the kingdom of God is written in his book.
do you mean the kingdom of God is inside my pancreas?

Jesus said to the people: "you haven taken the key away, for you enter not within yourself". The same is true for you. You have taken Satan up on his offer to inherit the earth.

what kind of key is it? you imply jesus was a liar since there is no kingdom inside me.


With regard to understanding how to "spot" deception, this man is very eloquent in his delivery:



I don't buy youtube answer.

I'll end by saying, your own blind inhibitions to believe ANY single source of information as "definitive" has blinded you from the truth.

what is the truth?
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,215
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 6:28:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 5:54:12 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
It is clear that Allah is your true God. It is clear to me that Allah, in your case, is actually Satan.

The proof is in you. You have been filled with pride, such to the extend that you believe you are superior to other mortals. You have not the ability to understand that God, or Satan, or "Allah" are not real beings, they only exist insofar as your own internal pride allows. You believe you have divine authority to believe that you are superior, but this is exactly the deception at play.

You have not the ability to realize that you are deceived. It is this way by design. The Quran is the conduit through which one allows their own inner pride to manifest. Exactly the same way Satan offers the kingdom of the earth to Jesus, it is being offered to you. You openly allow yourself to believe that all of the earth is rightfully yours, because "Allah" wills it to be so. Your ideology is predicated on your own inner deception. Satan has deceived you into thinking you are going to inherit the earth and go to "heaven", but little do you realize he is actually making you build your own hell. If Satan is the owner of pride, and you have so much pride in your beliefs that "Allah" is the true God, you have fallen directly into the trap.

Jesus taught the true kingdom of God is within you. Muhammad is telling you the instructions to the kingdom of God is written in his book. Jesus said to the people: "you haven taken the key away, for you enter not within yourself". The same is true for you. You have taken Satan up on his offer to inherit the earth.

With regard to understanding how to "spot" deception, this man is very eloquent in his delivery:



I'll end by saying, your own blind inhibitions to believe ANY single source of information as "definitive" has blinded you from the truth.

i enjoy when christians argue against muslims.
it's like someone arguing that spiderman is real against someone arguing that superman is real.
especially since neither religion can actually back up their claim that their god is actually real.
TheChristWithin
Posts: 977
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 6:49:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 6:28:58 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 1/22/2017 5:54:12 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
It is clear that Allah is your true God. It is clear to me that Allah, in your case, is actually Satan.

The proof is in you. You have been filled with pride, such to the extend that you believe you are superior to other mortals. You have not the ability to understand that God, or Satan, or "Allah" are not real beings, they only exist insofar as your own internal pride allows. You believe you have divine authority to believe that you are superior, but this is exactly the deception at play.

You have not the ability to realize that you are deceived. It is this way by design. The Quran is the conduit through which one allows their own inner pride to manifest. Exactly the same way Satan offers the kingdom of the earth to Jesus, it is being offered to you. You openly allow yourself to believe that all of the earth is rightfully yours, because "Allah" wills it to be so. Your ideology is predicated on your own inner deception. Satan has deceived you into thinking you are going to inherit the earth and go to "heaven", but little do you realize he is actually making you build your own hell. If Satan is the owner of pride, and you have so much pride in your beliefs that "Allah" is the true God, you have fallen directly into the trap.

Jesus taught the true kingdom of God is within you. Muhammad is telling you the instructions to the kingdom of God is written in his book. Jesus said to the people: "you haven taken the key away, for you enter not within yourself". The same is true for you. You have taken Satan up on his offer to inherit the earth.

With regard to understanding how to "spot" deception, this man is very eloquent in his delivery:



I'll end by saying, your own blind inhibitions to believe ANY single source of information as "definitive" has blinded you from the truth.

i enjoy when christians argue against muslims.
it's like someone arguing that spiderman is real against someone arguing that superman is real.
especially since neither religion can actually back up their claim that their god is actually real.

I'm not a Christian. I do believe Jesus' teachings as true (I actually think I believe them more than Muslims and Christians do), but I don't believe he is the son of God.

I presented the origin of deception and how it gives rise to pride. I get a response "prove the Quran is NOT the perfect word of God". The burden of proof is not on me for this, of course. I can't prove anything of the sort, because extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I can only lay an argument as to why it could equally be a product of Satan.

As to the responses I received, one can make up their own mind. I'm not going to argue with someone who is full of pride, while I am trying to argue that pride causes deception, and deception is the work of Satan. If they can't connect the dots, it is something they need to work out for themselves.
List of Trolls (ongoing)
21stCenturyIconoclast
bulproof
Deb-8-A-Bull
dee-em
Gentorev
Goldtop
Harikrish

List of Racists (ongoing)
Harikrish (blacks and Jews)
Mingodalia (white males)
uncung
Posts: 4,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 7:04:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 6:49:37 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
At 1/22/2017 6:28:58 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 1/22/2017 5:54:12 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
It is clear that Allah is your true God. It is clear to me that Allah, in your case, is actually Satan.

The proof is in you. You have been filled with pride, such to the extend that you believe you are superior to other mortals. You have not the ability to understand that God, or Satan, or "Allah" are not real beings, they only exist insofar as your own internal pride allows. You believe you have divine authority to believe that you are superior, but this is exactly the deception at play.

You have not the ability to realize that you are deceived. It is this way by design. The Quran is the conduit through which one allows their own inner pride to manifest. Exactly the same way Satan offers the kingdom of the earth to Jesus, it is being offered to you. You openly allow yourself to believe that all of the earth is rightfully yours, because "Allah" wills it to be so. Your ideology is predicated on your own inner deception. Satan has deceived you into thinking you are going to inherit the earth and go to "heaven", but little do you realize he is actually making you build your own hell. If Satan is the owner of pride, and you have so much pride in your beliefs that "Allah" is the true God, you have fallen directly into the trap.

Jesus taught the true kingdom of God is within you. Muhammad is telling you the instructions to the kingdom of God is written in his book. Jesus said to the people: "you haven taken the key away, for you enter not within yourself". The same is true for you. You have taken Satan up on his offer to inherit the earth.

With regard to understanding how to "spot" deception, this man is very eloquent in his delivery:



I'll end by saying, your own blind inhibitions to believe ANY single source of information as "definitive" has blinded you from the truth.

i enjoy when christians argue against muslims.
it's like someone arguing that spiderman is real against someone arguing that superman is real.
especially since neither religion can actually back up their claim that their god is actually real.

I'm not a Christian. I do believe Jesus' teachings as true (I actually think I believe them more than Muslims and Christians do), but I don't believe he is the son of God.

What is the teaching of jesus? where can we find the teaching of jesus?


I presented the origin of deception and how it gives rise to pride. I get a response "prove the Quran is NOT the perfect word of God".

how do you know it was not the perfect word of God?

The burden of proof is not on me for this, of course. I can't prove anything of the sort, because extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I can only lay an argument as to why it could equally be a product of Satan.

if you had no proof, then how come you come to that conclusion?
how do you know it was the product of Satan?


As to the responses I received, one can make up their own mind. I'm not going to argue with someone who is full of pride, while I am trying to argue that pride causes deception, and deception is the work of Satan. If they can't connect the dots, it is something they need to work out for themselves.

no, we don't expect you to argue, but rather we ask your reason, your proof.
you say the kingdom is inside me, for instance. what is your proof of it?
what kind of kingdom is it?
in which part of my body that kingdom lies on?
TheChristWithin
Posts: 977
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 8:03:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Jesus spoke in parables, when he says the kingdom of heaven is within you, he is speaking metaphorically. He's not talking about an actual place, he is just prompting people to meditate. That is, of course, unless you believe Jesus' teachings are somehow either false or misrepresented in the Bible.

I never claimed the Quran was a product of Satan, I said if anything it shares co-authorship with both God and Satan. I did suggest that the God you seem to be following is Satan, which is described in the first post. How do I know this? I have it on the same authority that the Quran is the perfect word of God.

That is unless, you actually present something that suggests the Quran is in fact the perfect word of God. So far, your argument has been "prove that it is not", which brings us back into a perpetual circular argument. You are telling me to disprove something I never laid claim to in the first place.

Your methods are similar to the situation when a key witness holds valuable information. The only thing the prosecution/defense can do to protect their stance is instead of allowing the witness to speak, they discredit the witness entirely. You discredit anything and everything outside of the Quran, then reference the Quran to prove itself as divine authority. I hope you can see how ridiculous this is.

If I said to you "prove the music of Mozart is the voice of God", you might say "that's impossible - it may or may not be". When I say "prove the Quran as the perfect word of God", you say "prove it is not". Do you see conflict here? It still collapses back into your bias of "divine authority", especially when you use it to prove itself, which is nonsense. If it is your belief, that is fine, I'm just giving an example of how you could in fact be following Satan instead of God, because both are equally valid to a deceived mind filled with pride.
List of Trolls (ongoing)
21stCenturyIconoclast
bulproof
Deb-8-A-Bull
dee-em
Gentorev
Goldtop
Harikrish

List of Racists (ongoing)
Harikrish (blacks and Jews)
Mingodalia (white males)
uncung
Posts: 4,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 8:41:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 8:03:34 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
Jesus spoke in parables, when he says the kingdom of heaven is within you, he is speaking metaphorically. He's not talking about an actual place, he is just prompting people to meditate. That is, of course, unless you believe Jesus' teachings are somehow either false or misrepresented in the Bible.

Liar. You and Jesus couldn't provide the proof of that assertion. there is no kingdom inside my body. literally nor metaphorically.


I never claimed the Quran was a product of Satan, I said if anything it shares co-authorship with both God and Satan. I did suggest that the God you seem to be following is Satan, which is described in the first post. How do I know this? I have it on the same authority that the Quran is the perfect word of God.

what kind of criteria do you have by saying that I follow the satan?
what do you know about satan?
who is satan?
where is he now?
how big is he?
what gender does he belong to?
what can he do?


That is unless, you actually present something that suggests the Quran is in fact the perfect word of God.

what is the criteria of the perfectness of God's word? who told you so? which holy book is the perfect one? why?

So far, your argument has been "prove that it is not", which brings us back into a perpetual circular argument. You are telling me to disprove something I never laid claim to in the first place.

no, you denied to argue. when I asked you to provide the proof, you merely said : it is my argument. without proof basis.


Your methods are similar to the situation when a key witness holds valuable information. The only thing the prosecution/defense can do to protect their stance is instead of allowing the witness to speak, they discredit the witness entirely. You discredit anything and everything outside of the Quran, then reference the Quran to prove itself as divine authority. I hope you can see how ridiculous this is.

I don't get it.


If I said to you "prove the music of Mozart is the voice of God", you might say "that's impossible - it may or may not be".

I didn't ask about music, I only ask you to be responsible on your own assertion. you said Quran is a deception. prove it. provide the proof. otherwise it is considered as the accusation.

When I say "prove the Quran as the perfect word of God", you say "prove it is not". Do you see conflict here? It still collapses back into your bias of "divine authority", especially when you use it to prove itself, which is nonsense. If it is your belief, that is fine, I'm just giving an example of how you could in fact be following Satan instead of God, because both are equally valid to a deceived mind filled with pride.

but so far you didn't provide the proof to back your assertion.
why do you say Quran is not the perfect word of God? what is your reason? which part of Quran is not the word of God? which verse?
you don't pin point the alleged imperfect passages so far. I am waiting.
TheChristWithin
Posts: 977
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 10:24:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I know Islam puts a tremendous amount of emphasis on asking for proof on claims. But in order for you to understand my argument, you have to grant the possibility that the Quran is not the perfect word of God. I know that's difficult for you to do, so just imagine the following scenario:

Let's assume you died and you are now present before God. Suppose he asks you "Is the Quran my perfect word?" You say yes. He asks "How do you know this?"

What "proof" would you offer to God that the Quran is his perfect word?
List of Trolls (ongoing)
21stCenturyIconoclast
bulproof
Deb-8-A-Bull
dee-em
Gentorev
Goldtop
Harikrish

List of Racists (ongoing)
Harikrish (blacks and Jews)
Mingodalia (white males)
uncung
Posts: 4,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 10:44:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 10:24:04 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
I know Islam puts a tremendous amount of emphasis on asking for proof on claims. But in order for you to understand my argument, you have to grant the possibility that the Quran is not the perfect word of God. I know that's difficult for you to do,

what is your proof?

so just imagine the following scenario:

Let's assume you died and you are now present before God. Suppose he asks you "Is the Quran my perfect word?" You say yes. He asks "How do you know this?"

Is Quran a perfect word of God? I don't know. it would be my answer.


What "proof" would you offer to God that the Quran is his perfect word?

See the answer above.
TheChristWithin
Posts: 977
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 11:16:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 10:44:45 AM, uncung wrote:
At 1/22/2017 10:24:04 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
I know Islam puts a tremendous amount of emphasis on asking for proof on claims. But in order for you to understand my argument, you have to grant the possibility that the Quran is not the perfect word of God. I know that's difficult for you to do,

what is your proof?

My proof of what? That the Quran puts emphasis on proof, or granting the possibility that the Quran is not the perfect word of God? If it's the former, it's in the Quran itself "Produce your proof, should you be truthful." If it's the latter, see below.

so just imagine the following scenario:

Let's assume you died and you are now present before God. Suppose he asks you "Is the Quran my perfect word?" You say yes. He asks "How do you know this?"

Is Quran a perfect word of God? I don't know. it would be my answer.


If you don't know if the Quran is the perfect word of God, you can't then discount it as definitely or possibly not being the perfect word of God. You either believe it is, know it is, or don't know if it is. If you don't know if it is, the possibility that it is not must be existentially real, otherwise you would "know", or "believe" it to be.

If you don't know, there must be space for doubt. That's why I was careful when I said "grant the possibility" that it was not, if even temporarily. I didn't ask you to "believe" it was not, I asked you to grant it for the purposes of the hypothetical.

What "proof" would you offer to God that the Quran is his perfect word?

If you're trying to play word games, what "evidences" do you have that support the claim that the Quran is the perfect word of God? I don't mind discussions, but it's hard to discuss things with people who can't follow logic. I don't mean that as an insult, I just wish you would stop playing the proof game, there are times where it is appropriate, but parroting it over and over doesn't particularly help. If the only thing that you get from the Quran is "ask for proof for everything", yet you can't give proof yourself, not even to God, doesn't this make you somewhat of a human troll?
List of Trolls (ongoing)
21stCenturyIconoclast
bulproof
Deb-8-A-Bull
dee-em
Gentorev
Goldtop
Harikrish

List of Racists (ongoing)
Harikrish (blacks and Jews)
Mingodalia (white males)
uncung
Posts: 4,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 11:34:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 11:16:03 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
At 1/22/2017 10:44:45 AM, uncung wrote:
At 1/22/2017 10:24:04 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
I know Islam puts a tremendous amount of emphasis on asking for proof on claims. But in order for you to understand my argument, you have to grant the possibility that the Quran is not the perfect word of God. I know that's difficult for you to do,

what is your proof?

My proof of what? That the Quran puts emphasis on proof, or granting the possibility that the Quran is not the perfect word of God? If it's the former, it's in the Quran itself "Produce your proof, should you be truthful." If it's the latter, see below.

what is your reason by saying Quran is not the perfect word of God?

so just imagine the following scenario:

Let's assume you died and you are now present before God. Suppose he asks you "Is the Quran my perfect word?" You say yes. He asks "How do you know this?"

Is Quran a perfect word of God? I don't know. it would be my answer.


If you don't know if the Quran is the perfect word of God, you can't then discount it as definitely or possibly not being the perfect word of God. You either believe it is, know it is, or don't know if it is. If you don't know if it is, the possibility that it is not must be existentially real, otherwise you would "know", or "believe" it to be.

Is Quran the perfect word of God? I don't know. What about you? do you know that? provide your reason.

If you don't know, there must be space for doubt. That's why I was careful when I said "grant the possibility" that it was not, if even temporarily. I didn't ask you to "believe" it was not, I asked you to grant it for the purposes of the hypothetical.

distinguish between know and doubt. I dont know whether the Quran the perfect word of God or not. If I said then I have to provide the reason, If I said no, then I also have to do it. what about you, can you provide the reason behind to back your assertion? or it is only your feeling, no matter what you have to provide the reason.


What "proof" would you offer to God that the Quran is his perfect word?

If you're trying to play word games, what "evidences" do you have that support the claim that the Quran is the perfect word of God? I don't mind discussions, but it's hard to discuss things with people who can't follow logic. I don't mean that as an insult, I just wish you would stop playing the proof game, there are times where it is appropriate, but parroting it over and over doesn't particularly help. If the only thing that you get from the Quran is "ask for proof for everything", yet you can't give proof yourself, not even to God, doesn't this make you somewhat of a human troll?

evidence? the burden of evidence is not on me since I don't I assert anything so far.
ask your self:
what "evidences" do you have that support the claim that the Quran is not the perfect word of God?
TheChristWithin
Posts: 977
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 12:34:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's difficult to provide evidence to somebody who doesn't value evidence outside of the Quran itself.

I never claimed the Quran was or was not the perfect word of God. I provided reasoning as to why it could equally be a product of both God and Satan. There are numerous interpretations of the Quran which have varying effects on one's psychology. Some people use the Quran as divine authority to claim ownership of the earth where use of force is permitted. Some see it as a means of peace wherein killing is absolutely not permitted. This is consistent with my assertion, as anyone can observe in the world. I know Muslims who would never harm a soul, and I know some who think they get into heaven by dying in jihad. They both read the same book.

I have outlined the origin of deception in Genesis. Genesis "predicts" the behavior of humans: women have their sorrows multiplied, whereas men have to till the ground from which they came. I know this to be accurate because this is obvious in the very nature of people: women have more sensitive feelings, men are more insensitive but possess practical attributes. The application of this knowledge in reality lends credence to the story because it identifies the nature of men and women accurately.

If you want to continue to claim that the book of Genesis is man-made, therefore unreliable, the same claim can be made about the Quran. If one is willing to grant one assertion to one premise, they must grant it equally to the other, lest they fall victim to personal bias. Whether or not anything was man-made has no bearing on whether or not it is true, unless you are talking about the Quran, because it happens to make a very special claim for itself: it claims to be the perfect word of God.

I could go further and cite the measurement problem, which is an experiment anybody can do in their own home. When matter is not being observed by a conscious observer, it exists as a waveform of potential. It is only the act of measuring or observing that collapses the waveform. Consciousness and matter are interconnected in this way.

If you take a single die, and roll it, and look in the other direction before it lands, you can not determine what the face-up value is until you personally observe it. In much the same way, you can not determine anything as "true" or "untrue" unless you personally observe it for yourself. When someone comes up to me and tells me that God sent the final messenger Muhammad to humanity 1400 years ago, that he was illiterate and systematically delivered God's last and perfect word to humanity, which was compiled after his death, and was preserved for over 1400 years by the letter, I have absolutely no way of knowing this to be absolutely true. Furthermore, I have no way of knowing any claims to authentic preservation as being true, nor whether or not Muhammad actually existed and lived the life he did as documented in the hadith. In order to believe this, I would have to subject myself to believing something outside of my direct experience, which when coming back to the measurement problem, you can't do. I would have to believe something someone else is telling me.

The measurement problem, which once again you can do for yourself, also provides insight into cosmic or "divine" law. If God created this universe, it abides by his law. If we observe the measurement problem as a local law, it is therefore a cosmic and/or divine law. When one takes the statement "Thou shalt not bear false witness", and attempts to discard it by means of claiming the Bible as man-made, we still see that, in effect, it is a cosmic and/or divine law because it is impossible to violate it without divine intervention of some kind. You can't lay claim to something you yourself don't witness, unless you take it as a matter of "faith", in which case you're left at exactly where you started, which is believing something outside of your own personal life experience.
List of Trolls (ongoing)
21stCenturyIconoclast
bulproof
Deb-8-A-Bull
dee-em
Gentorev
Goldtop
Harikrish

List of Racists (ongoing)
Harikrish (blacks and Jews)
Mingodalia (white males)
uncung
Posts: 4,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 1:05:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 12:34:43 PM, TheChristWithin wrote:
It's difficult to provide evidence to somebody who doesn't value evidence outside of the Quran itself.
You do mean you cannot provide the evidence to support your assertion.
you say: Quran is a deception. why did you say so? what is your reason? so plain question.


I never claimed the Quran was or was not the perfect word of God.
? why are you changed so fast?

I provided reasoning as to why it could equally be a product of both God and Satan.
so fra you didn't provide the reason. what is your reason to say so? what is satan according to you? what can he do actually? how does he deceive us by using a holy book?

There are numerous interpretations of the Quran which have varying effects on one's psychology. Some people use the Quran as divine authority to claim ownership of the earth where use of force is permitted.

such as?

Some see it as a means of peace wherein killing is absolutely not permitted.
killing is permitted depends on the situation.

This is consistent with my assertion, as anyone can observe in the world. I know Muslims who would never harm a soul, and I know some who think they get into heaven by dying in jihad. They both read the same book.

so long as they base on the quran then they must be right.


I have outlined the origin of deception in Genesis. Genesis "predicts" the behavior of humans: women have their sorrows multiplied, whereas men have to till the ground from which they came.
lol. since when the behavior of women and men need a 'prediction'?

I know this to be accurate because this is obvious in the very nature of people: women have more sensitive feelings, men are more insensitive but possess practical attributes. The application of this knowledge in reality lends credence to the story because it identifies the nature of men and women accurately.

so that's why the Genesis is true word of God?


If you want to continue to claim that the book of Genesis is man-made,
I had never said so.

therefore unreliable, the same claim can be made about the Quran. If one is willing to grant one assertion to one premise, they must grant it equally to the other, lest they fall victim to personal bias. Whether or not anything was man-made has no bearing on whether or not it is true, unless you are talking about the Quran, because it happens to make a very special claim for itself: it claims to be the perfect word of God.

who says the Quran is the perfect word of God? you? I had never said it.


I could go further and cite the measurement problem, which is an experiment anybody can do in their own home. When matter is not being observed by a conscious observer, it exists as a waveform of potential. It is only the act of measuring or observing that collapses the waveform. Consciousness and matter are interconnected in this way.

I don't get it.


If you take a single die, and roll it, and look in the other direction before it lands, you can not determine what the face-up value is until you personally observe it. In much the same way, you can not determine anything as "true" or "untrue" unless you personally observe it for yourself.

I able to determine the thing as "true" or "untrue". it is very easy.

When someone comes up to me and tells me that God sent the final messenger Muhammad to humanity 1400 years ago, that he was illiterate and systematically delivered God's last and perfect word to humanity, which was compiled after his death, and was preserved for over 1400 years by the letter, I have absolutely no way of knowing this to be absolutely true.

I able to prove it is absolutely true. very easy.

Furthermore, I have no way of knowing any claims to authentic preservation as being true, nor whether or not Muhammad actually existed and lived the life he did as documented in the hadith.

we can examine the quality level of hadith.

In order to believe this, I would have to subject myself to believing something outside of my direct experience, which when coming back to the measurement problem, you can't do. I would have to believe something someone else is telling me.

share your experience , may it enlighten us.

The measurement problem, which once again you can do for yourself, also provides insight into cosmic or "divine" law. If God created this universe, it abides by his law. If we observe the measurement problem as a local law, it is therefore a cosmic and/or divine law. When one takes the statement "Thou shalt not bear false witness", and attempts to discard it by means of claiming the Bible as man-made, we still see that, in effect, it is a cosmic and/or divine law because it is impossible to violate it without divine intervention of some kind. You can't lay claim to something you yourself don't witness, unless you take it as a matter of "faith", in which case you're left at exactly where you started, which is believing something outside of your own personal life experience.

I don't get it.
Fatihah
Posts: 9,735
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 1:32:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 2:38:35 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:

If they believe that 'Allah" is the "true" God, and that the Quran is perfect, they are allowing themselves to believe that only Muslims have true "wisdom" and "intellect" which surpasses that of infidels. Who is really speaking here? Does this sound like God, or Satan? Consider pride. Of course it's not in black and white in a single statement, more spread over an entire book, but is this the message being portrayed?

Muslims believe it is their right to inherit this earth, and they can only do so when they have eradicated all non-believers. Yet not only does science say the entire place is a hologram, so did the Mayans whose ancestors built the pyramids. What exactly do they think they are acquiring by doing this?

And so here comes the blind truth. I believe the Quran is indeed a masterpiece, but it was co-authored. I don't mean literally, I mean it was designed to "harvest" souls. This book not only gives "Divine" authority that convinces people to conquer the earth, but it brings moderate Muslims to see it as peaceful despite their blind submission to it.

In effect what we have is truly a masterpiece of deception. What's more is, the solutions to all of these problems are out in the open. Science can prove why such commandments as "though shalt not bear false witness" is in direct violation to the cosmic law, yet people believe in "prophets" whose actions they could not themselves witness are not only divine but "perfect". We know that consciousness creates reality now, and that reality is therefore an "illusion" of our own psychology, which validates the statement "as above, so below".

So does the one in "submission" to Allah, actually have the right God? If truth must be hidden in plain sight, is it not any wonder why Muslims are those who "submit" themselves? I submit myself to life itself, and not any one source of information. Certainly none that claims itself as "God's Perfect Word".

Response: If Muslims are deceived, you should have evidence for it. You presented none. If the Bible is 100% true, you should have evidence for it. Again, you presented none. Hence, all of your criticism is invalid and without merit.

As for whether there is deception, your own Bible scholars admit that the Bible has been changed, that there are over 24,000 manuscripts in which no two are identical, and the Bible has many discrepancies and errors.

The Qur'an, on the other hand, has no errors or indecency and is a guidance to righteousness. This is how we know it is reliable and one of the reasons it is from Allah and not Satan.
TheChristWithin
Posts: 977
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 1:47:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
My God man, Islam has you wrapped around its finger.

Your prophet Jesus tried to tell you to AVOID organized religion, to never trust anything ever told to you, and to go meditate. You don't trust the Bible because you are told not to, yet it outlines exactly what one must do in order to "liberate" themselves from deception.

All Jesus did was tell you to meditate, which he describes as entering within yourself, which he "symbolically" describes as finding the kingdom of heaven within you. He said over and over "take no thought", that is to say, don't take any thoughts with you, just empty mind. In meditation, your body fills with energy which rises up your seven chakras. During this process you are able to allow your subconscious mind to rearrange itself to make sense of things, and deconstruct any deception which has entered into your life. I'm assuming people have told you that meditation and opening the 3rd eye is "dangerous". It is not, they are trying to keep you from entering within yourself, because when you do you will not only see the truth, you will realize that you don't need religion.

I am European, which means I am of Greek descent. I know how Greeks think and write: they write symbolically and in a theatrical way. However, they are also extremely intelligent people. They use "stories" to illustrate profound truths. The stories themselves are not actual events, such as the great flood or the exile from Egypt, but they were constructed meticulously to demonstrate an "inner" journey one takes in their own life. The story of Adam and Eve is actually a scientific breakdown of how the universe works: matter (Adam) and energy (Eve). You want a scientific miracle? E=MC^2, which is the equation denoted in the first book of Genesis. Want another? The Bible says the tribe of Judah, camped Eastward (Jesus said cast your net to the right side) is numbered 186 400. That's the speed of light in our local universe. How the hell did they know that one? That came before your Quran. The story that follows is Cain and Abel, which symbolizes how Cain (gives an offering to the lord from the ground) kills Abel (gives first of flock) because he is jealous that his "offerings" weren't suitable for God. Ironically, in this very story you will learn your punishment for killing another man, you ought to read it before you go killing "infidels". These offerings symbolize thoughts that are "acquired" from the mind, which is where the serpent dwells, which is where religion comes from, including Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and just about every ism you can imagine.

If you want to neglect the teachings of Jesus and follow Muhammad instead, you will never discover the truth that is capable of manifesting within you through meditation. If you would rather pray instead of allow your conscious mind to expand and have much broader perspective, that's your choice.

The damn book of revelation tells you about the book of life (your life story) written on the backside (your spine where the energies rise up in meditation) and in the right hand seven stars (your seven chakras) are judged. Here is what is going to happen to you:

Revelations 2:20
Notwithstanding, I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Jezebel is the woman who started worshiping a false God, which is your Allah. You've been seduced by promises of heaven and glory and fornicated with "exterior" influences, thus false Gods, and "eat" from the teachings thereof. All this time Jesus has been saying "enter within yourself". Of course there's no LITERAL kingdom within you, you need to learn how to read symbolic language, which the Bible is absolutely 100% symbolic.

Enjoy your Islam, just be prepared for what you will face in the hereafter, having allowed yourself to be deceived to such an extent to believe that killing is acceptable. I mean, have you ever once sat back and questioned these things?
List of Trolls (ongoing)
21stCenturyIconoclast
bulproof
Deb-8-A-Bull
dee-em
Gentorev
Goldtop
Harikrish

List of Racists (ongoing)
Harikrish (blacks and Jews)
Mingodalia (white males)
uncung
Posts: 4,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 2:13:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 1:47:19 PM, TheChristWithin wrote:
My God man, Islam has you wrapped around its finger.

Your prophet Jesus tried to tell you to AVOID organized religion,
in which verse is it?

to never trust anything ever told to you,
I trust the truth only.

and to go meditate.
we meditate everyday.

You don't trust the Bible because you are told not to, yet it outlines exactly what one must do in order to "liberate" themselves from deception.
we trust the true Bible.


All Jesus did was tell you to meditate, which he describes as entering within yourself, which he "symbolically" describes as finding the kingdom of heaven within you.
there is no heaven within us.

He said over and over "take no thought", that is to say, don't take any thoughts with you, just empty mind. In meditation, your body fills with energy
energy doesn't fill our body via meditation. your assertion is unscientific.

which rises up your seven chakras.
I don't get it.

During this process you are able to allow your subconscious mind to rearrange itself to make sense of things, and deconstruct any deception which has entered into your life. I'm assuming people have told you that meditation and opening the 3rd eye is "dangerous". It is not, they are trying to keep you from entering within yourself, because when you do you will not only see the truth, you will realize that you don't need religion.
we need religion to obtain salvation in hereafter.


I am European, which means I am of Greek descent.
not all Europeans are Greek descent.

I know how Greeks think and write: they write symbolically and in a theatrical way. However, they are also extremely intelligent people. They use "stories" to illustrate profound truths. The stories themselves are not actual events, such as the great flood or the exile from Egypt, but they were constructed meticulously to demonstrate an "inner" journey one takes in their own life. The story of Adam and Eve is actually a scientific breakdown of how the universe works: matter (Adam) and energy (Eve). You want a scientific miracle? E=MC^2, which is the equation denoted in the first book of Genesis. Want another? The Bible says the tribe of Judah, camped Eastward (Jesus said cast your net to the right side) is numbered 186 400. That's the speed of light in our local universe. How the hell did they know that one? That came before your Quran. The story that follows is Cain and Abel, which symbolizes how Cain (gives an offering to the lord from the ground) kills Abel (gives first of flock) because he is jealous that his "offerings" weren't suitable for God. Ironically, in this very story you will learn your punishment for killing another man, you ought to read it before you go killing "infidels". These offerings symbolize thoughts that are "acquired" from the mind, which is where the serpent dwells, which is where religion comes from, including Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and just about every ism you can imagine.


If you want to neglect the teachings of Jesus and follow Muhammad instead, you will never discover the truth that is capable of manifesting within you through meditation.
what is the teaching of jesus?

If you would rather pray instead of allow your conscious mind to expand and have much broader perspective, that's your choice.

The damn book of revelation tells you about the book of life (your life story) written on the backside (your spine where the energies rise up in meditation) and in the right hand seven stars (your seven chakras) are judged. Here is what is going to happen to you:

Revelations 2:20
Notwithstanding, I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

? I don't get it.

Jezebel is the woman who started worshiping a false God, which is your Allah.

Jesus called the God Allah. Ever watched the Passion of Christ? In that aramaic movie the actor constantly mentioned Allah.

You've been seduced by promises of heaven and glory and fornicated with "exterior" influences, thus false Gods, and "eat" from the teachings thereof. All this time Jesus has been saying "enter within yourself". Of course there's no LITERAL kingdom within you, you need to learn how to read symbolic language, which the Bible is absolutely 100% symbolic.

are there any kingdom within you?


Enjoy your Islam, just be prepared for what you will face in the hereafter, having allowed yourself to be deceived to such an extent to believe that killing is acceptable. I mean, have you ever once sat back and questioned these things?

I enjoy the truth certainly no matter you hate it.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,215
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 2:23:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 6:49:37 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
At 1/22/2017 6:28:58 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 1/22/2017 5:54:12 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
It is clear that Allah is your true God. It is clear to me that Allah, in your case, is actually Satan.

The proof is in you. You have been filled with pride, such to the extend that you believe you are superior to other mortals. You have not the ability to understand that God, or Satan, or "Allah" are not real beings, they only exist insofar as your own internal pride allows. You believe you have divine authority to believe that you are superior, but this is exactly the deception at play.

You have not the ability to realize that you are deceived. It is this way by design. The Quran is the conduit through which one allows their own inner pride to manifest. Exactly the same way Satan offers the kingdom of the earth to Jesus, it is being offered to you. You openly allow yourself to believe that all of the earth is rightfully yours, because "Allah" wills it to be so. Your ideology is predicated on your own inner deception. Satan has deceived you into thinking you are going to inherit the earth and go to "heaven", but little do you realize he is actually making you build your own hell. If Satan is the owner of pride, and you have so much pride in your beliefs that "Allah" is the true God, you have fallen directly into the trap.

Jesus taught the true kingdom of God is within you. Muhammad is telling you the instructions to the kingdom of God is written in his book. Jesus said to the people: "you haven taken the key away, for you enter not within yourself". The same is true for you. You have taken Satan up on his offer to inherit the earth.

With regard to understanding how to "spot" deception, this man is very eloquent in his delivery:



I'll end by saying, your own blind inhibitions to believe ANY single source of information as "definitive" has blinded you from the truth.

i enjoy when christians argue against muslims.
it's like someone arguing that spiderman is real against someone arguing that superman is real.
especially since neither religion can actually back up their claim that their god is actually real.

I'm not a Christian. I do believe Jesus' teachings as true (I actually think I believe them more than Muslims and Christians do), but I don't believe he is the son of God.

I presented the origin of deception and how it gives rise to pride. I get a response "prove the Quran is NOT the perfect word of God". The burden of proof is not on me for this, of course. I can't prove anything of the sort, because extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I can only lay an argument as to why it could equally be a product of Satan.

As to the responses I received, one can make up their own mind. I'm not going to argue with someone who is full of pride, while I am trying to argue that pride causes deception, and deception is the work of Satan. If they can't connect the dots, it is something they need to work out for themselves.

what convinced you that Satan is actually real?
i haven't seen any evidence that Satan is real.
the more specific you can be the easier it will be to spot any flaws in your logic.
Hiu
Posts: 1,610
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 2:27:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm no Muslim. I'm ano agnostic-theist, but when Christians try to write a dissertation about Islam and criticism especially on a scriptural level I have to interject. Islam unlike Christianity requires you to believe in all the prophets that came before Muhammad. Jesus, Noah, Adam, John The Baptist, Abraham, and when you mention their name in conversation you're supposed to say "Alayhi-Salam" (Peace be upon him). In my life in referencing to Jesus I have never heard a Christian wish peace upon Jesus upon the mentioning of his namke considering he is "God" to them.

Point being is Muslims like Jews are strictly monotheistic. There are no other gods they worship aside from Allah. There is only one deity they worship, that created the universe and that is Allah.

/End Thread
Hiu
Posts: 1,610
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 2:29:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 6:49:37 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
At 1/22/2017 6:28:58 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 1/22/2017 5:54:12 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
It is clear that Allah is your true God. It is clear to me that Allah, in your case, is actually Satan.

The proof is in you. You have been filled with pride, such to the extend that you believe you are superior to other mortals. You have not the ability to understand that God, or Satan, or "Allah" are not real beings, they only exist insofar as your own internal pride allows. You believe you have divine authority to believe that you are superior, but this is exactly the deception at play.

You have not the ability to realize that you are deceived. It is this way by design. The Quran is the conduit through which one allows their own inner pride to manifest. Exactly the same way Satan offers the kingdom of the earth to Jesus, it is being offered to you. You openly allow yourself to believe that all of the earth is rightfully yours, because "Allah" wills it to be so. Your ideology is predicated on your own inner deception. Satan has deceived you into thinking you are going to inherit the earth and go to "heaven", but little do you realize he is actually making you build your own hell. If Satan is the owner of pride, and you have so much pride in your beliefs that "Allah" is the true God, you have fallen directly into the trap.

Jesus taught the true kingdom of God is within you. Muhammad is telling you the instructions to the kingdom of God is written in his book. Jesus said to the people: "you haven taken the key away, for you enter not within yourself". The same is true for you. You have taken Satan up on his offer to inherit the earth.

With regard to understanding how to "spot" deception, this man is very eloquent in his delivery:



I'll end by saying, your own blind inhibitions to believe ANY single source of information as "definitive" has blinded you from the truth.

i enjoy when christians argue against muslims.
it's like someone arguing that spiderman is real against someone arguing that superman is real.
especially since neither religion can actually back up their claim that their god is actually real.

I'm not a Christian. I do believe Jesus' teachings as true (I actually think I believe them more than Muslims and Christians do), but I don't believe he is the son of God.

I presented the origin of deception and how it gives rise to pride. I get a response "prove the Quran is NOT the perfect word of God". The burden of proof is not on me for this, of course. I can't prove anything of the sort, because extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I can only lay an argument as to why it could equally be a product of Satan.

As to the responses I received, one can make up their own mind. I'm not going to argue with someone who is full of pride, while I am trying to argue that pride causes deception, and deception is the work of Satan. If they can't connect the dots, it is something they need to work out for themselves.

Your name is deceptive...Christwithin yet you are not Christian yet you perceive to "know" more about Christ than what Muslims and Christians believe. Hmmmm how many mg of Xanax are you taking?
TheChristWithin
Posts: 977
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 3:41:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Satan is not real, neither is God, they are inventions of man. When I use the term "Satan", I mean evil and/or embodiment of deception.

To any religious people who can't see through their own little bubble, you have to use terms they are familiar with.

The reason I chose this name is because Jesus taught people to search within themselves. I'm not a Christian, but I have read his teachings, within the context of what he was trying to say, and understand that he only tried to get people to search inside themselves before pointing anywhere outside.

When you look back further in history, and not just 1400 years or 2000 years, you will see evidence of civilizations that were far more advanced than us, who had science much more advanced than our current science. They claimed that our reality is actually an illusion which reflects back our own true nature, and it is not real. When you consider that science tells us our universe is a hologram, which confirms the illusory nature of our universe foretold by civilizations which worshipped exactly that which gives them biological life (the damned sun itself), you might expect one to stop and think.

Yet they still claim to know "God", and are so convinced that they are the rightful owners of the planet. To me it seems pretty obvious that people who delude themselves into believing such nonsense fail to realize the implications of what modern science is trying to tell them.

That's why I laid claim that the Quran is exactly a masterpiece of deception. It's neither the word of God, nor Satan, but it is both. It perfectly manifests the true desire and intention of the mortal man. Those who perceive they are to inherit the earth through killing infidels, they are actually forging their own path into their own hell of their own making, and they do it willingly and with "pride" because "Allah" is "the best of planners". Those who treat the Quran as a means of peace, through promoting peace, they will manifest a peaceful planet. In the end it doesn't matter what you believe, it's what you do. If you live a peaceful life in the light of Islam, the truth will emerge over time naturally because it is a stepping stone, as all religions are.

If our realm is an illusion, which reflects back our true nature as the Mayans suggested, and the Quran reflects back the true nature of the heart, those who live by the sword will surely die by it. Those who live by promoting peace, will have it bestowed upon them in just kind. That's the only way divine judgment can occur within an illusory space. Whatever you are, you create, and whatever you create, you are in just kind.

In this sense I am very happy to be a Gemini who can see things from multiple perspectives. When you can put the pieces together from multiple perspectives, you get a true picture of reality. All of this fighting over ideologies, land, property, money, women are just illusory. When you understand the concept of the Maya-Matrix, you start to understand synchronicity and how events start manifesting based on your thoughts and behaviors. This is a natural phenomenon, it is not owing to Islam, but Islam will lay claim to it as "finding the path of truth" and being guided by "Allah", as they attempt to lay claim to just about everything else.

I respect the efforts they made to preserve their texts to the degree that they have, and respect their devotion to protecting the principles of truth. However it is clear that they are suffering from intense psychological warfare, in much the same way that dictators create a false enemy and purport themselves as the only solution.

Well before Islam, or any religion came for that matter, the human race already knew how to live in peace and harmony. That's how they had so much time to observe the procession of the equinoxes, over tens of thousands of years, chart them, personify them and the evolution of human consciousness along with it, as well as plan and build multiple observatories which aligned to constellations. For modern humans to believe that God only took an interest in humanity in the past ~5000 years demonstrates our own incredulity and solipsism.

To believe that a holy book was handed down to a select people, in Arabic, which can only be understood properly in Arabic, but intended for all of humanity, lends itself to a solipsistic belief. If I am to believe this is the work of God, and not of man himself, and that I am naturally at a disadvantage because of the culture and geographical location I was born into, I find it hard to believe this is divine planning.

Good people do good things. Bad people do bad things. Only religion can convince good people to do bad things. I don't need a holy book to tell me that killing another man is wrong, neither do I need one to convince me that not only is it right, but commanded by God to do so.

If you look at the bloodshed of the dark ages and the current state of religious tension, how can one not see the simple divide and conquer tactic? Religion acts like an opiate, to keep the masses subdued and dormant until a religion like Islam can rise and claim ownership of the one divine authority. When you take time out of the equation "which is itself a construct of the mind and not real", it almost seems planned this way. It matters not, for if we are trapped together in an illusion of our own making, I will never raise a sword against any man in aggression or in defense. If the cost of my life would mean a religious fanatic to spend an eternity with their beloved Allah in hell, I'd gladly give it. Besides, we are eternal beings, so we ought to choose what we do here wisely.
List of Trolls (ongoing)
21stCenturyIconoclast
bulproof
Deb-8-A-Bull
dee-em
Gentorev
Goldtop
Harikrish

List of Racists (ongoing)
Harikrish (blacks and Jews)
Mingodalia (white males)
uncung
Posts: 4,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 4:21:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 3:41:44 PM, TheChristWithin wrote:
Satan is not real, neither is God, they are inventions of man. When I use the term "Satan", I mean evil and/or embodiment of deception.

but you pontificate satan as an active figure.
in case of God, if there was no God then who created the universe?


To any religious people who can't see through their own little bubble, you have to use terms they are familiar with.

The reason I chose this name is because Jesus taught people to search within themselves. I'm not a Christian, but I have read his teachings, within the context of what he was trying to say, and understand that he only tried to get people to search inside themselves before pointing anywhere outside.

When you look back further in history, and not just 1400 years or 2000 years, you will see evidence of civilizations that were far more advanced than us, who had science much more advanced than our current science. They claimed that our reality is actually an illusion which reflects back our own true nature, and it is not real. When you consider that science tells us our universe is a hologram, which confirms the illusory nature of our universe foretold by civilizations which worshipped exactly that which gives them biological life (the damned sun itself), you might expect one to stop and think.

who are 'us' you refer to ?

Yet they still claim to know "God", and are so convinced that they are the rightful owners of the planet. To me it seems pretty obvious that people who delude themselves into believing such nonsense fail to realize the implications of what modern science is trying to tell them.

believing in God is not a delusion, it is logic.


That's why I laid claim that the Quran is exactly a masterpiece of deception.
so just because quran mentions God you consider it then as a deception?

It's neither the word of God, nor Satan, but it is both.
but you just said satan is not real.

It perfectly manifests the true desire and intention of the mortal man. Those who perceive they are to inherit the earth through killing infidels,
infidels do not always deserve killing.

they are actually forging their own path into their own hell of their own making, and they do it willingly and with "pride" because "Allah" is "the best of planners". Those who treat the Quran as a means of peace, through promoting peace, they will manifest a peaceful planet. In the end it doesn't matter what you believe, it's what you do. If you live a peaceful life in the light of Islam, the truth will emerge over time naturally because it is a stepping stone, as all religions are.

islam promote peace, except you ruin them.


If our realm is an illusion, which reflects back our true nature as the Mayans suggested, and the Quran reflects back the true nature of the heart, those who live by the sword will surely die by it.
do you mean jesus was killed because he lived by the sword?

Those who live by promoting peace, will have it bestowed upon them in just kind. That's the only way divine judgment can occur within an illusory space. Whatever you are, you create, and whatever you create, you are in just kind.

do you know how to promote the peace? by war.


In this sense I am very happy to be a Gemini who can see things from multiple perspectives. When you can put the pieces together from multiple perspectives, you get a true picture of reality. All of this fighting over ideologies, land, property, money, women are just illusory. When you understand the concept of the Maya-Matrix, you start to understand synchronicity and how events start manifesting based on your thoughts and behaviors. This is a natural phenomenon, it is not owing to Islam, but Islam will lay claim to it as "finding the path of truth" and being guided by "Allah", as they attempt to lay claim to just about everything else.

then it is the true claim.

I respect the efforts they made to preserve their texts to the degree that they have, and respect their devotion to protecting the principles of truth. However it is clear that they are suffering from intense psychological warfare, in much the same way that dictators create a false enemy and purport themselves as the only solution.

maybe it is because you invade them.


Well before Islam, or any religion came for that matter, the human race already knew how to live in peace and harmony.

live in peace and harmony under which laws?

That's how they had so much time to observe the procession of the equinoxes, over tens of thousands of years, chart them, personify them and the evolution of human consciousness along with it, as well as plan and build multiple observatories which aligned to constellations. For modern humans to believe that God only took an interest in humanity in the past ~5000 years demonstrates our own incredulity and solipsism.

To believe that a holy book was handed down to a select people, in Arabic, which can only be understood properly in Arabic, but intended for all of humanity, lends itself to a solipsistic belief. If I am to believe this is the work of God, and not of man himself, and that I am naturally at a disadvantage because of the culture and geographical location I was born into, I find it hard to believe this is divine planning.

God sent the holy books to the messengers in their native languages.


Good people do good things. Bad people do bad things. Only religion can convince good people to do bad things. I don't need a holy book to tell me that killing another man is wrong, neither do I need one to convince me that not only is it right, but commanded by God to do so.

you don't need to kill the people just because you believe in God.


If you look at the bloodshed of the dark ages and the current state of religious tension, how can one not see the simple divide and conquer tactic? Religion acts like an opiate, to keep the masses subdued and dormant until a religion like Islam can rise and claim ownership of the one divine authority. When you take time out of the equation "which is itself a construct of the mind and not real", it almost seems planned this way. It matters not, for if we are trapped together in an illusion of our own making, I will never raise a sword against any man in aggression or in defense. If the cost of my life would mean a religious fanatic to spend an eternity with their beloved Allah in hell, I'd gladly give it. Besides, we are eternal beings, so we ought to choose what we do here wisely.

aggression is not always the bad thing.
TheChristWithin
Posts: 977
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/22/2017 4:53:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I didn't invade anybody. If my ancestors did, it was wrong and if I had the choice I would have denounced it. Neither do I support war or bloodshed for any reason. This might be acceptable in Islam, but it is not in my world view. I do not believe in or pretend to know God, and I certainly don't grant myself divine authority to do or think anything that is not within the grasp of my own experience.

Jesus didn't die by the sword, he moved to India and lived an extremely long life. He was only crucified for one evening. I don't condone any actions taken against Jesus.

Satan has you pretty good I must admit.
List of Trolls (ongoing)
21stCenturyIconoclast
bulproof
Deb-8-A-Bull
dee-em
Gentorev
Goldtop
Harikrish

List of Racists (ongoing)
Harikrish (blacks and Jews)
Mingodalia (white males)
uncung
Posts: 4,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2017 12:28:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2017 4:53:36 PM, TheChristWithin wrote:
I didn't invade anybody. If my ancestors did, it was wrong and if I had the choice I would have denounced it.

your troops invade islamic lands.

Neither do I support war or bloodshed for any reason. This might be acceptable in Islam, but it is not in my world view.

it doesn't imply war is wrong.

I do not believe in or pretend to know God, and I certainly don't grant myself divine authority to do or think anything that is not within the grasp of my own experience.

Jesus didn't die by the sword, he moved to India and lived an extremely long life. He was only crucified for one evening. I don't condone any actions taken against Jesus.

live by the sword, die by the sword, did jesus cultivate his own karma by dying on the cross?

Satan has you pretty good I must admit.
satan or evil? I thought you don't believe in satan as a figure.
TheChristWithin
Posts: 977
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2017 12:51:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What do you mean my troops? I don't have troops. I don't have military ideology, I am just one person.

Do you really not understand the concept of a caricature? I refer to Iblis because you think he's real. It's like trying to tell a child they get gifts or coal on Christmas if they are naughty or nice. Therefor, man invented Santa Clause as the mystery man who lives in the North Pole to describe to little children the concept, so they can picture it in their mind as if it were real. God and Iblis are the same deal, except religious people haven't grown up out of that fantasy yet.

Notwithstanding, if you want to believe they are real, Iblis sends his blessing to you and awaits you in the hereafter, unless you bring hell to earth before you die, in which case he'll be most pleased with you. After all, he is the best of planners and deceives those who stray from the true path.

This thread is done, I have now a crystal clear understanding of the psychology of the followers of Iblis.
List of Trolls (ongoing)
21stCenturyIconoclast
bulproof
Deb-8-A-Bull
dee-em
Gentorev
Goldtop
Harikrish

List of Racists (ongoing)
Harikrish (blacks and Jews)
Mingodalia (white males)
uncung
Posts: 4,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2017 1:06:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2017 12:51:14 AM, TheChristWithin wrote:
What do you mean my troops? I don't have troops. I don't have military ideology, I am just one person.

your government troops invade islamic lands.


Do you really not understand the concept of a caricature? I refer to Iblis because you think he's real. It's like trying to tell a child they get gifts or coal on Christmas if they are naughty or nice. Therefor, man invented Santa Clause as the mystery man who lives in the North Pole to describe to little children the concept, so they can picture it in their mind as if it were real. God and Iblis are the same deal, except religious people haven't grown up out of that fantasy yet.

yes men invented the false gods and figures.

Notwithstanding, if you want to believe they are real, Iblis sends his blessing to you and awaits you in the hereafter, unless you bring hell to earth before you die, in which case he'll be most pleased with you. After all, he is the best of planners and deceives those who stray from the true path.

I do believe in the true things only.


This thread is done, I have now a crystal clear understanding of the psychology of the followers of Iblis.

the disbelievers like you are the followers of Iblis.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.