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Before The Burning Bush

DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
janesix
Posts: 8,233
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2/8/2017 4:21:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.
I agree.

But should you demand proof, or ask for it with sincerity?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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2/8/2017 5:01:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 4:21:26 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.
I agree.

But should you demand proof, or ask for it with sincerity?

Do you see any sincerity from Moses?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
janesix
Posts: 8,233
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2/8/2017 5:07:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 5:01:15 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:21:26 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.
I agree.

But should you demand proof, or ask for it with sincerity?

Do you see any sincerity from Moses?
I have doubts that Moses actually existed. He is most likely a fictional character.

I'm sure if you really wanted to find God you would. But you don't.
Ludofl3x
Posts: 2,283
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2/8/2017 5:12:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago

I'm sure if you really wanted to find God you would. But you don't.

At one time, I really, really wanted to find God. All I ever found was silence, then I started to realize that there is nothing to find. "Seek and ye shall find" is just (a) blaming the person for not finding something that's supposedly everywhere and (b) a play on our natural confirmation bias. Of all the bad arguments for Christianity and religion in general, "you don't believe hard enough!" is my least favorite, because it's so easily dismiss-able.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 6,062
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2/8/2017 5:18:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.

God never required you to believe with no proof, reason or evidences. That's a false depiction of what faith means in spiritual terms. Faith is a spiritual principle that is either utilized or not, because it's based upon a persons trust or confidence in God and it's means is to produce results (fruit), evidences. So in short faith is an action. Faith will be an option you can choose once you've accepted God.

So it's my understanding you need both, not just one or the other..... only it's the order in which they are received. Once you have sufficient reason or evidences that give you confidence enough to believe in the Creator, then and only then is faith even a qualifier, because again it's trust, how can one trust in something if they don't even know it exists? Jesus knew God existed therefore was His faith was effective.
So I agree with you, but here's the thing.....the information in which to obtain spiritual evidences are shown to you in many ways through a wide array of scriptures, literature, testimonies, spiritual individuals ect... as with Moses the worldwide religion we know of now did not exist yet, and as far as we know it could have been a spiritual vision, which is something you can have if you really want it anyways.
What God "does" demand is that we utilize the information given which concern all the principles that govern the reality of the spirit through scriptures, literature and witnesses. Then as we apply we begin to get things we ask for.
The scriptures also reveal the principle...."to whom much is given, much is required".....meaning the more we ask for and get, the more will be required from our part. If you want something you must be willing to give something. "Give and it shall be given unto you".
If God gives you a "burning bush" are you willing to do what Moses did??
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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2/8/2017 5:27:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 5:07:26 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/8/2017 5:01:15 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:21:26 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.
I agree.

But should you demand proof, or ask for it with sincerity?

Do you see any sincerity from Moses?
I have doubts that Moses actually existed. He is most likely a fictional character.

That doesn't answer the question.

I'm sure if you really wanted to find God you would. But you don't.

Yes, that's the typical childish response from believers.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
EtrnlVw
Posts: 6,062
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2/8/2017 5:27:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 5:12:00 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:

I'm sure if you really wanted to find God you would. But you don't.

At one time, I really, really wanted to find God. All I ever found was silence, then I started to realize that there is nothing to find. "Seek and ye shall find" is just (a) blaming the person for not finding something that's supposedly everywhere and (b) a play on our natural confirmation bias. Of all the bad arguments for Christianity and religion in general, "you don't believe hard enough!" is my least favorite, because it's so easily dismiss-able.

Lol, "seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened" are spiritual principles. In other words it showing you don't just sit there and expect the nature of God or the spirit to just jump in your lap. You actually have to pursue knowledge, want knowledge, seek God in your thoughts, mind and spirit, don't just think something will come when you do nothing.

God doesn't speak audibly so you shouldn't be expecting that anyways. It's a matter of being sensitive to the nature of spirit and understanding how it communicates and how it's relevant to you. So silence is not only normal, it's good for you, but you want to move in deeper than that.
Understanding the nature of God is not material so don't put emphasis on your external senses, receiving spiritual insight takes a cultivation just like with every other subject in creation......if you want to learn about something you must seek it out, apply it...."abide" in Me...hint hint...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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2/8/2017 5:42:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 5:18:23 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.

God never required you to believe with no proof, reason or evidences. That's a false depiction of what faith means in spiritual terms. Faith is a spiritual principle that is either utilized or not, because it's based upon a persons trust or confidence in God and it's means is to produce results (fruit), evidences. So in short faith is an action. Faith will be an option you can choose once you've accepted God.

Ah yes, still redefining words to suit your agenda. Try looking up words before using them so you have some understanding of what you're saying.

So it's my understanding you need both, not just one or the other.....

No, it's proof, just like what Moses demanded.

only it's the order in which they are received. Once you have sufficient reason or evidences that give you confidence enough to believe in the Creator, then and only then is faith even a qualifier, because again it's trust, how can one trust in something if they don't even know it exists?

There is no evidence, that's the point.

Jesus knew God existed therefore was His faith was effective.

So what? Jesus had faith, not proof.

So I agree with you, but here's the thing.....the information in which to obtain spiritual evidences are shown to you in many ways through a wide array of scriptures, literature, testimonies, spiritual individuals ect... as with Moses the worldwide religion we know of now did not exist yet, and as far as we know it could have been a spiritual vision, which is something you can have if you really want it anyways.

Sorry, scriptures, literature and testimonies are worthless as proof.

Is Lord of the Rings proof of Middle Earth?

What God "does" demand is that we utilize the information given which concern all the principles that govern the reality of the spirit through scriptures, literature and witnesses. Then as we apply we begin to get things we ask for.

I don't care what God demands and neither did Moses. It's what Moses demanded.

The scriptures also reveal the principle...."to whom much is given, much is required".....meaning the more we ask for and get, the more will be required from our part. If you want something you must be willing to give something. "Give and it shall be given unto you".
If God gives you a "burning bush" are you willing to do what Moses did??

That's not the point of this thread. But, it is a good question.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Danb6177
Posts: 622
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2/8/2017 6:01:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.

Its a fantastic question DJR, one that I think about all the time. Many Christian will tell you that God is only their god and everyone else will burn in hell.
But that certainly cant be. God must be the God of all, but how? I have only speculations unfortunately, perhaps God manifest himself to each in his own way and only asks for belief. I wish I knew

As far as proof I think God does show us proof. Perhaps not in the form of a burning bush or a thundering voice. But in more suddle things. Answers to prayer. I personally have been involved with prayer groups that have prayed together and received answers. Of course this does not explain those who have not received answers.

I remember a time in my early 30s I needed cash because we were struggling to keep our home. The cash appeared. Again not a burning bush and stuff that can be counted as coincidence. But there is a line between having faith and calling things coincidence I think. There is something about sincerely emptying yourself before God and then receiving your needs in ways that seems heavenly. To me thats proof enough.

But your question is a hard one and Im sure its a question that everyone has. Hopefully one day we will know
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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2/8/2017 8:17:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 6:01:03 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.

Its a fantastic question DJR, one that I think about all the time. Many Christian will tell you that God is only their god and everyone else will burn in hell.
But that certainly cant be. God must be the God of all, but how? I have only speculations unfortunately, perhaps God manifest himself to each in his own way and only asks for belief. I wish I knew

As far as proof I think God does show us proof. Perhaps not in the form of a burning bush or a thundering voice. But in more suddle things. Answers to prayer. I personally have been involved with prayer groups that have prayed together and received answers. Of course this does not explain those who have not received answers.

I remember a time in my early 30s I needed cash because we were struggling to keep our home. The cash appeared. Again not a burning bush and stuff that can be counted as coincidence. But there is a line between having faith and calling things coincidence I think. There is something about sincerely emptying yourself before God and then receiving your needs in ways that seems heavenly. To me thats proof enough.

But your question is a hard one and Im sure its a question that everyone has. Hopefully one day we will know

You're certainly going to find there is a whole lot more that doesn't support prayers being answered.

"The cash appeared"

Where? Out of thin air? God wrote you a cheque or swung by the ATM?

Seriously. it is a huge insult to say God tossed some cash your way when folks pray for their lives or the lives of others to no avail. Over a quarter million people lost their lives in a tsunami some years ago, do you not think that many of them were Christians praying for their lives? Think about it.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
PureX
Posts: 4,075
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2/8/2017 9:01:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 5:12:00 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:

I'm sure if you really wanted to find God you would. But you don't.

At one time, I really, really wanted to find God. All I ever found was silence, then I started to realize that there is nothing to find. "Seek and ye shall find" is just (a) blaming the person for not finding something that's supposedly everywhere and (b) a play on our natural confirmation bias. Of all the bad arguments for Christianity and religion in general, "you don't believe hard enough!" is my least favorite, because it's so easily dismiss-able.

Or perhaps you just didn't understand the possibilities. What you were looking for was not possible. And you were listening to religionists who are just playing make-believe with each other.

God is as real as you want God to be, but YOU have to be real about God, too.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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2/8/2017 9:14:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 5:27:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/8/2017 5:12:00 PM, Ludofl3x wrote:

I'm sure if you really wanted to find God you would. But you don't.

At one time, I really, really wanted to find God. All I ever found was silence, then I started to realize that there is nothing to find. "Seek and ye shall find" is just (a) blaming the person for not finding something that's supposedly everywhere and (b) a play on our natural confirmation bias. Of all the bad arguments for Christianity and religion in general, "you don't believe hard enough!" is my least favorite, because it's so easily dismiss-able.

Lol, "seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened" are spiritual principles. In other words it showing you don't just sit there and expect the nature of God or the spirit to just jump in your lap. You actually have to pursue knowledge, want knowledge, seek God in your thoughts, mind and spirit, don't just think something will come when you do nothing.

God doesn't speak audibly so you shouldn't be expecting that anyways.

And, you know that how? Did God tell you that?

It's a matter of being sensitive to the nature of spirit and understanding how it communicates and how it's relevant to you. So silence is not only normal, it's good for you, but you want to move in deeper than that.

So, now silence is proof of God? LOL.

Understanding the nature of God is not material so don't put emphasis on your external senses, receiving spiritual insight takes a cultivation just like with every other subject in creation......if you want to learn about something you must seek it out, apply it...."abide" in Me...hint hint...

It's not material but you must seek out silence? Sheesh, is there no end to your contradictions?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Danb6177
Posts: 622
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2/8/2017 9:20:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 8:17:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/8/2017 6:01:03 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.

Its a fantastic question DJR, one that I think about all the time. Many Christian will tell you that God is only their god and everyone else will burn in hell.
But that certainly cant be. God must be the God of all, but how? I have only speculations unfortunately, perhaps God manifest himself to each in his own way and only asks for belief. I wish I knew

As far as proof I think God does show us proof. Perhaps not in the form of a burning bush or a thundering voice. But in more suddle things. Answers to prayer. I personally have been involved with prayer groups that have prayed together and received answers. Of course this does not explain those who have not received answers.

I remember a time in my early 30s I needed cash because we were struggling to keep our home. The cash appeared. Again not a burning bush and stuff that can be counted as coincidence. But there is a line between having faith and calling things coincidence I think. There is something about sincerely emptying yourself before God and then receiving your needs in ways that seems heavenly. To me thats proof enough.

But your question is a hard one and Im sure its a question that everyone has. Hopefully one day we will know

You're certainly going to find there is a whole lot more that doesn't support prayers being answered.

"The cash appeared"

Where? Out of thin air? God wrote you a cheque or swung by the ATM?

Seriously. it is a huge insult to say God tossed some cash your way when folks pray for their lives or the lives of others to no avail. Over a quarter million people lost their lives in a tsunami some years ago, do you not think that many of them were Christians praying for their lives? Think about it.

I dont think Im insulting anyone really. The reason people die in masses from man or from nature I cannot answer. How man Christians where praying for their lives you ask? How many were at peace? Do you know? I would be at peace. I would think some that have never prayed may find a tsunami a good time to start, but a believer would embrace death.

I understand that the secular world has an issue with death and I get it. The unknown is scary. People dying from disease and natural disasters is hard to cope with specially when kids are involved. A question often keeping people from seeing Gods work around them is why these things happen.
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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2/9/2017 4:40:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 9:20:34 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I understand that the secular world has an issue with death and I get it. The unknown is scary.
That's a godist problem, it's why they are godists because they are shiit frightened of death.
I know what death is and it's not scary it's just the end.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 2,695
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2/9/2017 5:52:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.
Do you have the equivalent amount of faith as Moses?. Your reasoning is skewed via an equivocation fallacy. A person with great faith seeks "proof" as in knowing God will be revealed. A person of little faith seeks "proof" as in some miraculous act..I.e. they are testing God as opposed to expecting God to be revealed. If you seek proof without great faith you aren't seeking proof of God you are saying "prove to me there is a God". Moses had faith there is a God, you don't.
this site is dead. It doesn't even correctly post replies..
keithprosser
Posts: 8,122
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2/9/2017 6:42:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

Was it really Moses or only Charlton Heston who said that?
dee-em
Posts: 10,593
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2/9/2017 10:49:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2017 5:52:32 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.

Do you have the equivalent amount of faith as Moses?. Your reasoning is skewed via an equivocation fallacy. A person with great faith seeks "proof" as in knowing God will be revealed. A person of little faith seeks "proof" as in some miraculous act..I.e. they are testing God as opposed to expecting God to be revealed. If you seek proof without great faith you aren't seeking proof of God you are saying "prove to me there is a God". Moses had faith there is a God, you don't.

Thank you for pointing out your own fallacy, Skips. You have been very useful even if it wasn't the outcome you desired. Lol.

Proof is proof, Skips. It doesn't alter one iota if a person has faith that there is a valid proof or not. Only a fool would pretend otherwise. Imagine the scorn which would be heaped on a scientist if he suggested that you could find proof for evolution only if you had faith in evolution first. You guys would be frothing at the mouth. LMAO.
Lying and/or abusive trolls on permanent ignore: ethang5, skipsaweirdo, dsjpk5, Polytheist_Witch, Studio-B, TKDB, Factseeker, graceofgod.
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 3,202
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2/9/2017 11:47:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.

Lol, that's from a movie.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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2/9/2017 4:43:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2017 6:42:17 AM, keithprosser wrote:
You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

Was it really Moses or only Charlton Heston who said that?


Absolutely. ;)
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
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2/9/2017 4:45:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2017 5:52:32 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.
Do you have the equivalent amount of faith as Moses?. Your reasoning is skewed via an equivocation fallacy. A person with great faith seeks "proof" as in knowing God will be revealed. A person of little faith seeks "proof" as in some miraculous act..I.e. they are testing God as opposed to expecting God to be revealed. If you seek proof without great faith you aren't seeking proof of God you are saying "prove to me there is a God". Moses had faith there is a God, you don't.

No, he didn't, he had grown up as an Egyptian and his faith and allegiance was entirely to the Pharaoh.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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2/9/2017 4:49:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2017 11:47:58 AM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.

Lol, that's from a movie.

True. It was however a huge deal to his followers that the Prince of Egypt, a non-believer would suddenly convert big time to the Abrahamic God. The key to it all was the proof Moses demanded and received. That's the point.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Danb6177
Posts: 622
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2/9/2017 7:18:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2017 4:49:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/9/2017 11:47:58 AM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.

Lol, that's from a movie.

True. It was however a huge deal to his followers that the Prince of Egypt, a non-believer would suddenly convert big time to the Abrahamic God. The key to it all was the proof Moses demanded and received. That's the point.

why would you think that moses did not know he was Hebrew?
keithprosser
Posts: 8,122
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2/9/2017 7:50:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2017 7:18:45 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
why would you think that moses did not know he was Hebrew?

If we ignore the fantasies of Cecil B. de Mille, Exodus 2:19 makes it clear the Moses was considered (and probably considered himself) an Egyptian: "And they said, An Egyptian [ie Moses] delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and also drew water enough for us, and watered the flock."

He was however an outlaw in the Egyptians eyes having murdered an Egyptian who was assaulting a Hebrew (Ex 2:11-12) and appears to have been accepted by the Hebrews, probably for that reason, and was given a Hebrew wife (Ex 2:21). It's not explicit in the text but it seems Moses must have transferred his allegiance about that time, becoming (in modern terms) a 'naturalised' Hebrew.
Danb6177
Posts: 622
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2/9/2017 7:53:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2017 7:50:36 PM, keithprosser wrote:
At 2/9/2017 7:18:45 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
why would you think that moses did not know he was Hebrew?

If we ignore the fantasies of Cecil B. de Mille, Exodus 2:19 makes it clear the Moses was considered (and probably considered himself) an Egyptian: "And they said, An Egyptian [ie Moses] delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and also drew water enough for us, and watered the flock."

He was however an outlaw in the Egyptians eyes having murdered an Egyptian who was assaulting a Hebrew (Ex 2:11-12) and appears to have been accepted by the Hebrews, probably for that reason, and was given a Hebrew wife (Ex 2:21). It's not explicit in the text but it seems Moses must have transferred his allegiance about that time, becoming (in modern terms) a 'naturalised' Hebrew.

Yes others would have considered him an Egyptian. However Moses knew he was a Hebrew.
keithprosser
Posts: 8,122
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2/9/2017 7:58:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2017 7:53:48 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/9/2017 7:50:36 PM, keithprosser wrote:
At 2/9/2017 7:18:45 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
why would you think that moses did not know he was Hebrew?

If we ignore the fantasies of Cecil B. de Mille, Exodus 2:19 makes it clear the Moses was considered (and probably considered himself) an Egyptian: "And they said, An Egyptian [ie Moses] delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and also drew water enough for us, and watered the flock."

He was however an outlaw in the Egyptians eyes having murdered an Egyptian who was assaulting a Hebrew (Ex 2:11-12) and appears to have been accepted by the Hebrews, probably for that reason, and was given a Hebrew wife (Ex 2:21). It's not explicit in the text but it seems Moses must have transferred his allegiance about that time, becoming (in modern terms) a 'naturalised' Hebrew.

Yes others would have considered him an Egyptian. However Moses knew he was a Hebrew.

I don't know what Moses knew, but - IMO - there's nothing in the text suggest he did know, and what is in the text implies he did not know.
DanneJeRusse
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2/9/2017 8:26:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2017 7:18:45 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/9/2017 4:49:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/9/2017 11:47:58 AM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.

Lol, that's from a movie.

True. It was however a huge deal to his followers that the Prince of Egypt, a non-believer would suddenly convert big time to the Abrahamic God. The key to it all was the proof Moses demanded and received. That's the point.

why would you think that moses did not know he was Hebrew?

Because he grew up as an Egyptian Prince. Duh.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Danb6177
Posts: 622
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2/9/2017 8:42:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2017 7:58:41 PM, keithprosser wrote:
At 2/9/2017 7:53:48 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/9/2017 7:50:36 PM, keithprosser wrote:
At 2/9/2017 7:18:45 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
why would you think that moses did not know he was Hebrew?

If we ignore the fantasies of Cecil B. de Mille, Exodus 2:19 makes it clear the Moses was considered (and probably considered himself) an Egyptian: "And they said, An Egyptian [ie Moses] delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and also drew water enough for us, and watered the flock."

He was however an outlaw in the Egyptians eyes having murdered an Egyptian who was assaulting a Hebrew (Ex 2:11-12) and appears to have been accepted by the Hebrews, probably for that reason, and was given a Hebrew wife (Ex 2:21). It's not explicit in the text but it seems Moses must have transferred his allegiance about that time, becoming (in modern terms) a 'naturalised' Hebrew.

Yes others would have considered him an Egyptian. However Moses knew he was a Hebrew.

I don't know what Moses knew, but - IMO - there's nothing in the text suggest he did know, and what is in the text implies he did not know.

How about the one that says he was raised by his mom?
Danb6177
Posts: 622
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2/9/2017 8:43:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2017 8:26:32 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/9/2017 7:18:45 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/9/2017 4:49:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/9/2017 11:47:58 AM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.

Lol, that's from a movie.

True. It was however a huge deal to his followers that the Prince of Egypt, a non-believer would suddenly convert big time to the Abrahamic God. The key to it all was the proof Moses demanded and received. That's the point.

why would you think that moses did not know he was Hebrew?

Because he grew up as an Egyptian Prince. Duh.

And who raised him?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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2/9/2017 8:45:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/9/2017 8:43:20 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/9/2017 8:26:32 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/9/2017 7:18:45 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/9/2017 4:49:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/9/2017 11:47:58 AM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 2/8/2017 4:12:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
"If this god is God, he would live on every mountain, in every valley. He would not be only be the god of Israel or Ishmael alone, but of all men. It is said he created all men in his image. Then he would dwell in every heart, in every mind, in every soul.

How many of my people have died because he has turned away his face? Can a man judge God?

You have strong faith in this god, Sephora... but for me, there is no peace of spirit until I hear the word of God from God himself."

I agree with Moses and have said similar words to theists when they tell me I should have faith rather than proof. Moses demanded proof.

Lol, that's from a movie.

True. It was however a huge deal to his followers that the Prince of Egypt, a non-believer would suddenly convert big time to the Abrahamic God. The key to it all was the proof Moses demanded and received. That's the point.

why would you think that moses did not know he was Hebrew?

Because he grew up as an Egyptian Prince. Duh.

And who raised him?

The Pharaoh's sister, the one who found him.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth

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