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Is astrology science

Philosophy101
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12/9/2016 5:23:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Astrology as a look into psychology I would deem a science. However, going by birth date and extrapolating personality from that is not science (I would go further and call it absurd nonsense). Any thoughts?
keithprosser
Posts: 8,122
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12/9/2016 9:17:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 5:23:22 AM, Philosophy101 wrote:
Astrology as a look into psychology I would deem a science. However, going by birth date and extrapolating personality from that is not science (I would go further and call it absurd nonsense). Any thoughts?

I wouldn't see it that way. Astro-logy is 'the study of the influence of celestial bodies on terrestrial affairs', the same as bio-logy is the study of living things and geo-logy is the study of gea, the earth.

Astrology is science, but it turned out to be a study of something that didn't exist.
cf 'Theology'.
chui
Posts: 561
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12/9/2016 11:43:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 5:23:22 AM, Philosophy101 wrote:
Astrology as a look into psychology I would deem a science. However, going by birth date and extrapolating personality from that is not science (I would go further and call it absurd nonsense). Any thoughts?

15th Century university curriculum would declare it an art, by which they meant a practice carried out by an artisan.

Contemporary view is that it is a scam.
Let's hope "the truth is out there" cos there is bugger all round here.
Welfare-Worker
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12/9/2016 12:59:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It makes predictions, that come true with astonishing accuracy.
How can anyone even doubt that it is a science?

noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

noun
1.
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws:
chui
Posts: 561
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12/9/2016 3:41:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 12:59:44 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
It makes predictions, that come true with astonishing accuracy.
How can anyone even doubt that it is a science?

noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

noun
1.
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws:

This is a joke, yes?
Let's hope "the truth is out there" cos there is bugger all round here.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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12/9/2016 3:58:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 5:23:22 AM, Philosophy101 wrote:
Astrology as a look into psychology I would deem a science. However, going by birth date and extrapolating personality from that is not science (I would go further and call it absurd nonsense). Any thoughts?

Whatever astrology was before, it appears to be little more than cheap, mindless entertainment, now.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,676
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12/9/2016 4:28:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 3:41:01 PM, chui wrote:
At 12/9/2016 12:59:44 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
It makes predictions, that come true with astonishing accuracy.
How can anyone even doubt that it is a science?

noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

noun
1.
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws:

This is a joke, yes?

Well, yes and no.
Tongue in cheek.
It seems the people who should be spending their time on the science board like to ruffle feathers on the religion board.
So here I am.
I would have no problem defending this position.

Hey, one of the most beloved presidents of the U.S.A. planned helicopter flights based on his horoscope. Now, that is some serious endorsement.
And you have to admit, those predictions are more true than not.
And have you seen those charts? I mean, seriously. You have to know all about the solar system and a lot more, just to understand them, let alone write them up.

We have certainly seen more dubious endeavors that were clearly science.
You may have heard of Sir Issac Newton. He spent considerable time in the scientific endeavor of alchemy.

Yes, we have believers now, that become doubters.
And we have doubters, that become believers.
It is that way with scientists. Always an open mind, sort of. That is to say, always an open mind in what they believe in. Things they don't believe, not so much, very opinionated.

If you want to say it is not science, I will probably disagree.
I would have to see your unconvincing argument first, of course.
Annnaxim
Posts: 435
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12/9/2016 4:31:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 5:23:22 AM, Philosophy101 wrote:
Astrology as a look into psychology I would deem a science. However, going by birth date and extrapolating personality from that is not science (I would go further and call it absurd nonsense). Any thoughts?
Absurd nonsense describes such activities perfeclty! <clap>
Welfare-Worker
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12/9/2016 4:36:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Astrology is a science, court rules

Astrology, the study of interplanetary alignments as the explanation for everything, is a credible science, an Indian court has ruled.
The judgment will be met with relief in India, where engagements are decided, wedding and election dates are chosen on the basis of detailed charts drawn up by revered astrologers. A day deemed "auspicious" by an astrologer can lead to thousands of weddings and traffic gridlock.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
Welfare-Worker
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12/9/2016 4:38:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Eventually, the inevitable conclusion was reached: the summary being that a lot of time and energy was invested into something that did not move the argument one way or another; but merely revealed it more clearly for what it is. All those who respected astrology to begin with held onto their respect, whilst those who were hostile to the subject to begin with held onto their hostility.

What great news for astrologers then, that as the Guardian debate closed joyless around midnight, daybreak brought the unrealised news that yesterday the Bombay High Court in India had given a legal ruling that astrology is, indeed, a trusted and respected science, by rejecting a claim that had been brought to challenge astrology's standing as a reputable science and to urge a ban on practices promoting its services unless they included a warning that its methods could be unreliable.

The intention of the case was to revoke the 2004 ruling of the Supreme Court in India, which had already considered the issue and ruled that astrology is part of science. The 2004 ruling had also directed Indian universities to consider the placement of astrological science in their syllabus, and it was that decision which was reviewed and upheld, and therefore declared to be binding on the decision made yesterday.

The practice and belief in astrology and related theories is devoid of any scientific process and experimentation, based on ludicrous theories of cosmic constellations, gravitation, divination, existing and non-existing solar objects as well as illusionary and imaginary placement of zodiac signs.

However, the judges also took on record an affidavit submitted by the Union government, which stated that astrology is a 4000 year old 'trusted science' and so should not be subject to the Drugs and Magical Remedies Act (Objectionable Advertisements) of 1954.

The said Act does not cover astrology and related sciences. Astrology is a trusted science and has been practiced for over 4000 years.

" said an affidavit filed by Dr R Ramakrishna, deputy drug controller (India), west zone.

The said Act is aimed at prohibiting misleading advertisements relating to drugs and magic remedies. The Act does not cover and / or relate to astrology and / or allied sciences like Palmistry, Vaastu Shastra etc. In view thereof, a purported ban on practices promoting astrology and related sciences sought by the petitioner, which is a time tested science more than 4000 years old is totally misconceived and unjustifiable.

" was the argument of the affidavit which was upheld by the court.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk...
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,676
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12/9/2016 5:01:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Researchers demonstrate scientific principle of astrology
Skeptics must be further bewildered by the new research published in Nature Neuroscience and conducted at Vanderbilt University which unintentionally provides scientific support for the fundamental principle of astrology -- namely, that the position of the planets at your time of birth influences your personality.

In this study, not only did the birth month impact personality; it also resulted in measurable functional changes in the brain.

This study, conducted on mice, showed that mice born in the winter showed a "consistent slowing" of their daytime activity. They were also more susceptible to symptoms that we might call "Seasonal Affective Disorder."

The study was carried out by Professor of Biological Sciences Douglas McMahon, graduate student Chris Ciarleglio, post-doctoral fellow Karen Gamble and two additional undergraduate students, none of whom believe in astrology, apparently. They do, of course, believe in science, which is why all their study findings have been draped in the language of science even though the findings are essentially supporting principles of astrology.

"What is particularly striking about our results is the fact that the imprinting affects both the animal's behavior and the cycling of the neurons in the master biological clock in their brains," said Ciarleglio. This is one of the core principles of astrology: That the position of the planets at the time of your birth (which might be called the "season" of your birth) can actually result in changes in your brain physiology which impact lifelong behavior.

Once again, such an idea sounds preposterous to the scientifically trained, unless of course they discover it for themselves, at which point it's all suddenly very "scientific." Instead of calling it "astrology," they're now referring to it as "seasonal biology."

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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12/9/2016 5:03:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 4:36:36 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
Astrology is a science, court rules

Astrology, the study of interplanetary alignments as the explanation for everything, is a credible science, an Indian court has ruled.
The judgment will be met with relief in India, where engagements are decided, wedding and election dates are chosen on the basis of detailed charts drawn up by revered astrologers. A day deemed "auspicious" by an astrologer can lead to thousands of weddings and traffic gridlock.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

From the link:

"Lakshman Das Madan, one of India's leading astrologers and editor of the bestselling 'Babaji' magazine, offers detailed predictions ranging from domestic political tips on ministerial resignations to the wedding dates for top cricket stars. He remains hugely popular despite several errors."
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,676
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12/9/2016 5:03:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There can be few scientists brave enough to stick their heads above the academic parapet and claim to have found proof that, contrary to hundreds of years of scientific inquiry, the movement of heavenly bodies does, after all, affect how we behave down here on the ground.

But few scientists are Percy Seymour. In his latest book, The Scientific Proof of Astrology (not to be confused with his earlier tome of 1997, Scientific Basis of Astrology), the former Plymouth University astronomy lecturer, and member of the Royal Astronomical Society, argues that, while he does not believe in horoscopes, the movement of the sun, moon and various planets undoubtedly hold an influence over us. Could it be that countless devotees ranging from Charles de Gaulle to Ronald Reagan had it right when they kept one eye on the stars?

The argument Seymour puts forward is that the movement of the Sun, moon and sundry planets from Jupiter to Mars, interfere with the Earth's magnetic field. In doing so, the unborn offspring of expectant mothers around the world are exposed to different magnetic fields that toy with the development of their budding brains.

Seymour's suggestion that the stars and planets rule over us has largely been received with the shortest of shrifts. "All I can say is that I have yet to meet another scientist that agrees with his views," says Jacqueline Mitton of the Royal Astonomical Society. "It's right up there with stuff like crop circles being made by extra-terrestrials," says Robert Massey, astronomer at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, where Seymour worked as a planetarium lecturer in the early 70s.

Seymour's book is just the latest salvo in an ongoing battle that pits the vast majority of scientists, on one side, against the substantially fewer (but better paid) astrologists on the other.
https://www.theguardian.com...
DanneJeRusse
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12/9/2016 5:04:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 4:28:36 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 12/9/2016 3:41:01 PM, chui wrote:
At 12/9/2016 12:59:44 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
It makes predictions, that come true with astonishing accuracy.
How can anyone even doubt that it is a science?

noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

noun
1.
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws:

This is a joke, yes?

Well, yes and no.
Tongue in cheek.
It seems the people who should be spending their time on the science board like to ruffle feathers on the religion board.
So here I am.
I would have no problem defending this position.

Hey, one of the most beloved presidents of the U.S.A. planned helicopter flights based on his horoscope. Now, that is some serious endorsement.
And you have to admit, those predictions are more true than not.
And have you seen those charts? I mean, seriously. You have to know all about the solar system and a lot more, just to understand them, let alone write them up.

We have certainly seen more dubious endeavors that were clearly science.
You may have heard of Sir Issac Newton. He spent considerable time in the scientific endeavor of alchemy.

Yes, we have believers now, that become doubters.
And we have doubters, that become believers.
It is that way with scientists. Always an open mind, sort of. That is to say, always an open mind in what they believe in. Things they don't believe, not so much, very opinionated.

If you want to say it is not science, I will probably disagree.
I would have to see your unconvincing argument first, of course.

So far, you have provided plenty of fallacies but have yet to actually explain the science of astrology.

Go.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,676
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12/9/2016 5:06:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 5:03:14 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/9/2016 4:36:36 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
Astrology is a science, court rules

Astrology, the study of interplanetary alignments as the explanation for everything, is a credible science, an Indian court has ruled.
The judgment will be met with relief in India, where engagements are decided, wedding and election dates are chosen on the basis of detailed charts drawn up by revered astrologers. A day deemed "auspicious" by an astrologer can lead to thousands of weddings and traffic gridlock.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

From the link:

"Lakshman Das Madan, one of India's leading astrologers and editor of the bestselling 'Babaji' magazine, offers detailed predictions ranging from domestic political tips on ministerial resignations to the wedding dates for top cricket stars. He remains hugely popular despite several errors."

Hey, reminds me of scientists.
Getting something wrong doesn't stop them, they just keep on trying. Eventually they get it right, just like astrologers.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,676
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12/9/2016 5:08:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 5:04:14 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/9/2016 4:28:36 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 12/9/2016 3:41:01 PM, chui wrote:
At 12/9/2016 12:59:44 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
It makes predictions, that come true with astonishing accuracy.
How can anyone even doubt that it is a science?

noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

noun
1.
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws:

This is a joke, yes?

Well, yes and no.
Tongue in cheek.
It seems the people who should be spending their time on the science board like to ruffle feathers on the religion board.
So here I am.
I would have no problem defending this position.

Hey, one of the most beloved presidents of the U.S.A. planned helicopter flights based on his horoscope. Now, that is some serious endorsement.
And you have to admit, those predictions are more true than not.
And have you seen those charts? I mean, seriously. You have to know all about the solar system and a lot more, just to understand them, let alone write them up.

We have certainly seen more dubious endeavors that were clearly science.
You may have heard of Sir Issac Newton. He spent considerable time in the scientific endeavor of alchemy.

Yes, we have believers now, that become doubters.
And we have doubters, that become believers.
It is that way with scientists. Always an open mind, sort of. That is to say, always an open mind in what they believe in. Things they don't believe, not so much, very opinionated.

If you want to say it is not science, I will probably disagree.
I would have to see your unconvincing argument first, of course.

So far, you have provided plenty of fallacies but have yet to actually explain the science of astrology.

Go.

It works.
That's a fallacy?
Oh, ya, I guess it is.
Well, consider this. Fallacious arguments are not false, they are just dubious.
Like, well, you know, science.
But it is hard to argue with success.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,676
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12/9/2016 5:12:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
We all know science is based on some assumptions.
You know about assumptions, can not be shown by convincing evidence, they are just assumed to be true.
Assumptions, that are justified by circular arguments.
Fallacies.
The bedrock of Science.
But, when you are a believer, you are a believer, clean through.
keithprosser
Posts: 8,122
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12/9/2016 6:00:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 5:06:02 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
Getting something wrong doesn't stop them, they just keep on trying. Eventually they get it right, just like astrologers.

The difference is that scientists actually learn from their mistakes. Astrologers don't change their ideas or methods when they fail.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,676
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12/9/2016 6:34:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 6:00:10 PM, keithprosser wrote:
At 12/9/2016 5:06:02 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
Getting something wrong doesn't stop them, they just keep on trying. Eventually they get it right, just like astrologers.

The difference is that scientists actually learn from their mistakes. Astrologers don't change their ideas or methods when they fail.

Well, I disagree on several points.
Astrologers make full use of modern technology, just like other scientists, so the suggestion that they do things like they did 100 years ago is certainly not true.
Natural philosophers, sometimes refered to as scientists, have been using the scientific method for a very long time, dispute many failures. They keep using the same methods.
Actually, they have regressed, if accuracy is a concern, perhaps it is not.

Whereas in previous generations, experiments had to be actual hands on, today they can be computer simulations which are simply an extension of thought experiments.
Thought experiments were determined unreliable about 100 years age, but today they are acceptable in the form of computer simulations.

These failures of astrology that concerns you are simply occasional events, like the space shuttle exploding. They do not involve methodology. Space shuttles are still built the same, so to with the star charts.
Like the other sciences, the methodology is sound, occasional blips in predictions are to be expected. Even a five star chef has a cake fall ocassionaly. Scientists expect one outcome, get another, do not change the methodology.

Astrologers are very accurate overall. That is why Regan depended on them, and millions of others.
Welfare-Worker
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12/9/2016 7:12:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Astrology is not meant to be a primarily predictive science. It is meant to be for understanding ourselves and also for understanding other people. I've had a number of interviews recently where I was amazed that people thought it was fatalistic. It's not -- absolutely not. There is nothing in a horoscope, that blue-print, that pattern, that you cannot change if you want to. I've seen this over the years. It's the stories of the cycles and rhythms you are going through, and what you have brought over from the past to work out. It shows your character. You can read it the day a child is born; you can tell what they have brought over as a blessing and what they have brought over as a challenge that they have to change. But that is only the personality pattern. Behind the personality lies your real self, and you center yourself in that essential thing.

A great while ago, an Eastern teacher taught me something and I've watched it work over the years. We are vibrationally connected to everything that happens to us. There is only one way we can change what we do in this life, and that is by changing our attitude toward it; this changes our consciousness. This is a cosmic law that few people know. By changing your attitude, one of two things has to happen. Either person or the problem will be completely removed without any harm to anyone, or that person or problem will change so much that you will be able to live with it very easily. Now, in over thirty years, I've never seen it proved wrong in a person who changed their attitude, their consciousness."
http://www.awakin.org...
Philosophy101
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12/9/2016 11:10:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 7:12:47 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
"Astrology is not meant to be a primarily predictive science. It is meant to be for understanding ourselves and also for understanding other people. I've had a number of interviews recently where I was amazed that people thought it was fatalistic. It's not -- absolutely not. There is nothing in a horoscope, that blue-print, that pattern, that you cannot change if you want to. I've seen this over the years. It's the stories of the cycles and rhythms you are going through, and what you have brought over from the past to work out. It shows your character. You can read it the day a child is born; you can tell what they have brought over as a blessing and what they have brought over as a challenge that they have to change. But that is only the personality pattern. Behind the personality lies your real self, and you center yourself in that essential thing.

A great while ago, an Eastern teacher taught me something and I've watched it work over the years. We are vibrationally connected to everything that happens to us. There is only one way we can change what we do in this life, and that is by changing our attitude toward it; this changes our consciousness. This is a cosmic law that few people know. By changing your attitude, one of two things has to happen. Either person or the problem will be completely removed without any harm to anyone, or that person or problem will change so much that you will be able to live with it very easily. Now, in over thirty years, I've never seen it proved wrong in a person who changed their attitude, their consciousness."
http://www.awakin.org...

I believe the personality portion of it to be beneficial to understanding oneself. That people can tell the difference between say a Leo and a Capricorn leaves an interesting mark on the way we view the world. Perhaps movements of the heavens influences us down on earth; but knowing one's birth month and looking at the horoscopes probably isn't so beneficial. Just think if everyone born in the month of April was a Taurus then sonething weird must be going on. However, if one were to understand the different personalities brought forth by say one person being a Libra and another a Gemini; we could understand the world better. My take on what makes astrology a science is the personality aspect; not so much knowing one's birth sign, but the personality sign thereof. By the way I appear to be a Libra.
Quadrunner
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12/10/2016 4:35:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 5:23:22 AM, Philosophy101 wrote:
Astrology as a look into psychology I would deem a science. However, going by birth date and extrapolating personality from that is not science (I would go further and call it absurd nonsense). Any thoughts?

I just roll with the consensus like most people. Here is a renowned expert on the topic. They are getting older.
Philosophy101
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12/10/2016 4:37:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2016 4:35:09 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 12/9/2016 5:23:22 AM, Philosophy101 wrote:
Astrology as a look into psychology I would deem a science. However, going by birth date and extrapolating personality from that is not science (I would go further and call it absurd nonsense). Any thoughts?

I just roll with the consensus like most people. Here is a renowned expert on the topic. They are getting older.

Good one.
keithprosser
Posts: 8,122
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12/10/2016 9:03:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's possible that there are good reasons why statistically someone born in the summer is different form someone born in the winter due to climatic or other factors so there might be something in 'star signs'. But the strong claim that the stars and planets influence us here on earth is nonsense.... unless you are talking about being hit by giant meteors that wipe out 75% of all verterbrate life forms, of course.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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12/10/2016 4:01:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/9/2016 5:08:49 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 12/9/2016 5:04:14 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/9/2016 4:28:36 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 12/9/2016 3:41:01 PM, chui wrote:
At 12/9/2016 12:59:44 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
It makes predictions, that come true with astonishing accuracy.
How can anyone even doubt that it is a science?

noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

noun
1.
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws:

This is a joke, yes?

Well, yes and no.
Tongue in cheek.
It seems the people who should be spending their time on the science board like to ruffle feathers on the religion board.
So here I am.
I would have no problem defending this position.

Hey, one of the most beloved presidents of the U.S.A. planned helicopter flights based on his horoscope. Now, that is some serious endorsement.
And you have to admit, those predictions are more true than not.
And have you seen those charts? I mean, seriously. You have to know all about the solar system and a lot more, just to understand them, let alone write them up.

We have certainly seen more dubious endeavors that were clearly science.
You may have heard of Sir Issac Newton. He spent considerable time in the scientific endeavor of alchemy.

Yes, we have believers now, that become doubters.
And we have doubters, that become believers.
It is that way with scientists. Always an open mind, sort of. That is to say, always an open mind in what they believe in. Things they don't believe, not so much, very opinionated.

If you want to say it is not science, I will probably disagree.
I would have to see your unconvincing argument first, of course.

So far, you have provided plenty of fallacies but have yet to actually explain the science of astrology.

Go.

It works.

Then, explain exactly how it works?

Go.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,676
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12/10/2016 4:57:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2016 4:01:21 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/9/2016 5:08:49 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 12/9/2016 5:04:14 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/9/2016 4:28:36 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 12/9/2016 3:41:01 PM, chui wrote:
At 12/9/2016 12:59:44 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
It makes predictions, that come true with astonishing accuracy.
How can anyone even doubt that it is a science?

noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

noun
1.
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws:

This is a joke, yes?

Well, yes and no.
Tongue in cheek.
It seems the people who should be spending their time on the science board like to ruffle feathers on the religion board.
So here I am.
I would have no problem defending this position.

Hey, one of the most beloved presidents of the U.S.A. planned helicopter flights based on his horoscope. Now, that is some serious endorsement.
And you have to admit, those predictions are more true than not.
And have you seen those charts? I mean, seriously. You have to know all about the solar system and a lot more, just to understand them, let alone write them up.

We have certainly seen more dubious endeavors that were clearly science.
You may have heard of Sir Issac Newton. He spent considerable time in the scientific endeavor of alchemy.

Yes, we have believers now, that become doubters.
And we have doubters, that become believers.
It is that way with scientists. Always an open mind, sort of. That is to say, always an open mind in what they believe in. Things they don't believe, not so much, very opinionated.

If you want to say it is not science, I will probably disagree.
I would have to see your unconvincing argument first, of course.

So far, you have provided plenty of fallacies but have yet to actually explain the science of astrology.

Go.

It works.

Then, explain exactly how it works?

Go.

Look, we both know that in the sciences it is often the case that an event, action, or consequence is identified first, and the explanation comes later.
It is that way, has been that way, and will continue to be that way.
"It works, but we do not know why."
"It causes such and such, but we do not know why."
This is especially true in two areas.
The human body with medicines, and cosmic events.
There is no shortage of theories hypothesis' really, not tested theories.

Does it work? Isn't that the real issue?
If it works, the how will come. Science has taught us that.

Here are explanations:

Mathematics and Astrology

Galileo famously said that "Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe." Astrology bears out this principle in key ways:

Conversation of the Planets
The planets "talk" via mathematical angles. The most common of the astrological angles are:

Conjunctions: This is an angle of 0-10 degrees that represents a fusion.
Sextiles: A sextile is made when planets are at 60 degrees, and represents a talent that is readily appreciated.
Square: The square, an aspect of awareness or tension, occurs at 90 degrees.
Trines: Made at 120 degrees, trines are easy aspects, but they are ones that need to be activated in some way.
Opposition: Found when planets are 180 degrees apart. This aspect creates tension and a need for balance.
Degree Points
Each birth chart comes with degree points. These points are there to help you locate the planet and/or constellation in the sky. However, significant events tend to take place when a planet makes an aspect to your birth chart.
The Moon
The moon is pivotal to astrology because it enters a different sign every month. Therefore, there are new moons and there are full moons. New moons represent opportunity, while full moons bring things to fruition.

Make Astrology Work for You

In order to perform predictive astrology, you need to have a copy of your birth chart. Memorize that chart. Although dependent on current astrological conditions, this chart shows every conceivable possibility of your future. Note the:

Planets
The degrees
The signs on each house cusp
The aspects the planets make
The birth chart is your personal piece of real estate in the sky, and it shows all of your talents, as well as the areas you may need to work on. From there, it"s time pay attention to the moon.

~ ~ ~
How Does Astrology Work?

Astrology works on many levels.

At the simplest level, it is not unlike a complex clock, that uses the motions of the planets in a similar way to the movements of the hands on a clock face.

For example, if someone looked at a clock on the wall, and it said 8:45 am on a weekday, then they may justifiably remark that in all likelihood, there is a lot of traffic right now as people are hurrying to work. The clock is not creating the rush hour traffic. It is simply acting as a reliable indicator of the time, and that information is interpreted by someone reading the dial of the clock.

In a similar manner, someone reading an astrology chart can interpret what the positions of the planets indicate, by interpreting this information, or making predictions based on accepted correlations acquired from practical observations over many lifetimes.

This is a way to use astrology from a linear perspective of time.

Astrology"s strength is that it also works in a non-linear manner. It is this quality of astrology that has placed it under the greatest attack, since a non-linear capability has been taken to imply that it does not have a mechanism and therefore is not really subject to scientific scrutiny or approval.

In high school, most of us were taught that light behaves as if it were particle or a wave. In fact everything behaves as if it were particle or wave.

Particles interact in a linear way. Two particles colliding, for example, have predictable resulting trajectories. There are scientific laws that determine the behavior of both individual particles, and complex structures of particles. The description of these behaviors is termed the mechanism. When scientists are not provided with such a mechanism, then a description of a process, it's explanation, or it's understanding, is questioned.

Astrology does not work with mechanisms. It works with relationships, patterns, tendencies, and interpretations. It does not always give a yes or no answer. Where else have we encountered this kind of phenomena? Well, how about quantum computing?

As of this writing, various components of a quantum computer have been assembled, but the final construction of such a device has still eluded researchers. Part of the draw of a quantum computer, is its anticipated ability to break out of a linear programming model, vastly accelerating the computing process. However, one of the drawbacks encountered, is that the answer is not always yes or no, but can be maybe, or it depends on the question asked.

Perhaps the greatest strength of astrology, is that it works with a fundamental consequence of the universe being described from the standpoint of wave theory and the resulting quantum universe.

When we work with particles, and linear time, we are working with causality. In a causal universe, everything is a consequence of previous actions. In such a universe, if we can define enough of the variables, we are able to predict the outcomes of a present action.
http://www.astrologyhoroscopereadings.com...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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12/11/2016 6:24:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2016 4:57:14 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 12/10/2016 4:01:21 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Then, explain exactly how it works?

Go.

Look, we both know that in the sciences it is often the case that an event, action, or consequence is identified first, and the explanation comes later.

Not really. For example, scientists are trying to understand what gravity is, where they look to marry the Standard Model with General Relativity in the same way the other forces work. They do so by predicting both a particle and a wave, which is shown in how electromagnetic radiation works. Currently, they are looking for gravity waves and have built LIGO to try and find them.

So, nothing as yet has been identified, although the explanations of GR and SM are available.

It is that way, has been that way, and will continue to be that way.
"It works, but we do not know why."
"It causes such and such, but we do not know why."
This is especially true in two areas.
The human body with medicines, and cosmic events.
There is no shortage of theories hypothesis' really, not tested theories.

Such as?

Does it work? Isn't that the real issue?
If it works, the how will come. Science has taught us that.

Astrology has been around for many centuries, but has yet to have any scientific explanations.

Here are explanations:

Mathematics and Astrology

Galileo famously said that "Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe." Astrology bears out this principle in key ways:

Conversation of the Planets
The planets "talk" via mathematical angles.

Excuse me? Planets "talk"??? With angles???? What exactly is the language that Angles speak? Do I need an interpreter? Is that what an Astrologist is, an interpreter of Angle language?

The most common of the astrological angles are:

Conjunctions: This is an angle of 0-10 degrees that represents a fusion.

Fusion of what? How exactly is this represented? Show me the math?

Sextiles: A sextile is made when planets are at 60 degrees, and represents a talent that is readily appreciated.

Wtf are you talking about? You've simply put together a small, meaningless word salad. How was that conclusion drawn? From what evidence? What are the logical steps that led to it? Show me the math?

Square: The square, an aspect of awareness or tension, occurs at 90 degrees.
Trines: Made at 120 degrees, trines are easy aspects, but they are ones that need to be activated in some way.
Opposition: Found when planets are 180 degrees apart. This aspect creates tension and a need for balance.
Degree Points
Each birth chart comes with degree points. These points are there to help you locate the planet and/or constellation in the sky. However, significant events tend to take place when a planet makes an aspect to your birth chart.
The Moon
The moon is pivotal to astrology because it enters a different sign every month. Therefore, there are new moons and there are full moons. New moons represent opportunity, while full moons bring things to fruition.

All of those are the same thing, word salads that have no logic, explanations, evidence or methodology, you've simply tossed words together.

Make Astrology Work for You

In order to perform predictive astrology, you need to have a copy of your birth chart. Memorize that chart. Although dependent on current astrological conditions, this chart shows every conceivable possibility of your future. Note the:

Planets
The degrees
The signs on each house cusp
The aspects the planets make
The birth chart is your personal piece of real estate in the sky, and it shows all of your talents, as well as the areas you may need to work on. From there, it"s time pay attention to the moon.

That is gibberish, that has no meaning whatsoever to any kind of logic or scientific methodology. Nonsensical crap.

~ ~ ~
How Does Astrology Work?

Astrology works on many levels.

At the simplest level, it is not unlike a complex clock, that uses the motions of the planets in a similar way to the movements of the hands on a clock face.

Clocks are a representation of how we measure time based on the speed of light.

What effects exactly are the planets exhibiting? Their motions are based on Newtons, Keplers and Einsteins laws, they are well understood and can easily be predicted. How do any of the laws understood for planetary motions have anything to do with us? Show me your math?

For example, if someone looked at a clock on the wall, and it said 8:45 am on a weekday, then they may justifiably remark that in all likelihood, there is a lot of traffic right now as people are hurrying to work. The clock is not creating the rush hour traffic. It is simply acting as a reliable indicator of the time, and that information is interpreted by someone reading the dial of the clock.

In a similar manner, someone reading an astrology chart can interpret what the positions of the planets indicate, by interpreting this information, or making predictions based on accepted correlations acquired from practical observations over many lifetimes.

There is a very simple flaw to that example which makes it entirely invalid.

The clock and the busy traffic have absolutely no effects on each other, none. The clock will measure time and the traffic will be busy, these are not related in any way.

Yet, astrology claims there are effects, that somehow the planets motions have this effect on humans, yet astrology has never described, defined or even acknowledged any kind of effect, none whatsoever.

This is a way to use astrology from a linear perspective of time.

Astrology"s strength is that it also works in a non-linear manner. It is this quality of astrology that has placed it under the greatest attack, since a non-linear capability has been taken to imply that it does not have a mechanism and therefore is not really subject to scientific scrutiny or approval.

So, your tossing a strawman that astrology can work in a linear and non-linear manner, whatever that means, yet it still can't explain how it actually works.

**Continued
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 13,644
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12/11/2016 6:36:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago

In high school, most of us were taught that light behaves as if it were particle or a wave. In fact everything behaves as if it were particle or wave.

Particles interact in a linear way. Two particles colliding, for example, have predictable resulting trajectories. There are scientific laws that determine the behavior of both individual particles, and complex structures of particles. The description of these behaviors is termed the mechanism. When scientists are not provided with such a mechanism, then a description of a process, it's explanation, or it's understanding, is questioned.

Astrology does not work with mechanisms. It works with relationships, patterns, tendencies, and interpretations. It does not always give a yes or no answer.

And, the crystal clear fact that astrology cannot even explain how it works beyond someones imaginary, vague assertion, makes astrology utterly useless beyond mindless entertainment.

Where else have we encountered this kind of phenomena? Well, how about quantum computing?

As of this writing, various components of a quantum computer have been assembled, but the final construction of such a device has still eluded researchers. Part of the draw of a quantum computer, is its anticipated ability to break out of a linear programming model, vastly accelerating the computing process. However, one of the drawbacks encountered, is that the answer is not always yes or no, but can be maybe, or it depends on the question asked.

Whatever anyone is doing in regards to quantum computers, it is based on hard science, not assertions conjured from the imaginations of the ignorant and deluded.

Perhaps the greatest strength of astrology, is that it works with a fundamental consequence of the universe being described from the standpoint of wave theory and the resulting quantum universe.

That is utter nonsense. Astrology has NEVER been remotely related to quantum field theory, that is Chopra trash.

When we work with particles, and linear time, we are working with causality. In a causal universe, everything is a consequence of previous actions. In such a universe, if we can define enough of the variables, we are able to predict the outcomes of a present action.

So, then please explain what particles have to do with planetary motion and how this explains astrology and the so-called predictions? Your talking about scientific concepts; particles, planetary motion, time... all things with mathematics and laws. Therefore, astrology should be able to describe exactly how it works using that information and provide all the math. Yet, no such thing even remotely exists.

All that exists are ignorant, deluded folks constructing meaningless word salads from their overactive and under medicated imaginations.

http://www.astrologyhoroscopereadings.com......

Error 404 - Not Found
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,676
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12/12/2016 3:51:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anesthesia
Oliver Wendell Holmes coined the term "anesthesia" in 1846 to describe drug-induced insensibility to sensation (particularly pain), shortly after the first publicized demonstration of inhaled ether rendered a patient unresponsive during a surgical procedure.
Thus the simple answer to the question "How does anesthesia work?" is that, although we know a great deal about the physiologic effects and macroscopic sites of action, we don't yet know the molecular mechanism(s) of action for general anesthetics.
https://www.scientificamerican.com...

Hallucinogens
Hallucinogens are drugs that alter a person"s perception of reality and that cause hallucinations and other alterations of the senses. They have been used in medicine and in religion, and are taken recreationally by people who seek out their effects. What there is still a lot to be learned about, however, is how these drugs actually produce their effects.
Many questions concerning the brain and hallucinogens remain unanswered, but scientists have been able to determine some of the areas of the brain that the drugs act on.
Additionally, the cause of a "bad trip" remains a mystery.
http://hallucinogens.com...

"Smart drug" Modafinil
Modafinil is a eugeroic that has been accepted by the FDA in 1998 as a treatment for numerous disorders such as shift work sleep disorders, enhanced daytime sleepiness and shift work sleep disorder (Saletu &Saletu-Zyhlarz, 2013, 231).
Side effects that are common in CNS stimulants but are not observed in Modafinil users include arterial hypertension and tachycardia. The absence of these effects has been widely attributed to the drug"s mechanism of action, though the exact principles of this yet to be established.
There have been several theories formulated""..
Among the numerous theories that have been formulated"".
https://www.modup.net...

The Problem With Medicine: We Don't Know If Most of It Works
Less than half the surgeries, drugs, and tests that doctors recommend have been proved effective.
A panel of experts convened in 2007 by the prestigious Institute of Medicine estimated that "well below half" of the procedures doctors perform and the decisions they make about surgeries, drugs, and tests have been adequately investigated and shown to be effective. The rest are based on a combination of guesswork, theory, and tradition, with a strong dose of marketing by drug and device companies.
http://discovermagazine.com...

Knowing why a drug works has historically trailed the treatment, sometimes by decades. Some of the most recognizable drugs -- acetaminophen for pain relief, penicillin for infections, and lithium for bipolar disorder, continue to be scientific mysteries today.
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

How does dark matter work?
Why does hot water freeze faster than cold water?
How does sleep work, why do living things have to sleep?
Why is ice slippery? They do not know.
Why do humans have fewer genes than a tomato?
How does consciousness work, where does it come from?
How does migration work?
How do homing pigeons know where to fly to go home?

Lots more than that, things that scientists have know about for a long, long time, but still do not understand.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,676
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12/12/2016 4:11:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Almost forgot, what is gravity, and where does it come from?

But physicists think about gravity all the time. To them, gravity is one of the mysteries to be solved in order to get a complete understanding of how the Universe works.

So, what is gravity and where does it come from?

To be honest, we"re not entirely sure.
http://www.universetoday.com...

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