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What are electrons made of?

Goldtop
Posts: 6,992
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3/9/2017 1:39:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/9/2017 12:58:30 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Suggestions welcomed.

They have no components or structure, they're a fundamental particle in the Lepton family. Very small mass, hence are fermions.
Smithereens
Posts: 8,358
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3/10/2017 1:29:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/9/2017 1:01:33 AM, MagicAintReal wrote:
At 3/9/2017 12:58:30 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Suggestions welcomed.

Yeah, electrons are made of leptons.
https://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov...

No. Electrons are leptons. They are not made of leptons.

The question was what are they made of.
"Your signature should not have the name of other players in the game, nor should it have the words VTL, Vote, or Unvote."
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Stronn
Posts: 683
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3/10/2017 5:22:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ultimately, we can't really say what anything is made of, we can only describe how it behaves and interacts.

Mathematically, phenomena like electrons are described in terms of fields.
Annnaxim
Posts: 435
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3/10/2017 9:04:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2017 1:29:11 AM, Smithereens wrote:
The question was what are they made of.
Most likely, they are perturbances in the primordeal electromagnetic field.
MagicAintReal
Posts: 1,241
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3/10/2017 1:57:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2017 1:29:11 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 3/9/2017 1:01:33 AM, MagicAintReal wrote:
At 3/9/2017 12:58:30 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Suggestions welcomed.

Yeah, electrons are made of leptons.
https://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov...

No. Electrons are leptons. They are not made of leptons.

The question was what are they made of.

Trees are plants and are made of plant matter.
Electrons are leptons and are made of lepton matter.
Smithereens
Posts: 8,358
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3/10/2017 1:58:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2017 9:04:08 AM, Annnaxim wrote:
At 3/10/2017 1:29:11 AM, Smithereens wrote:
The question was what are they made of.
Most likely, they are perturbances in the primordeal electromagnetic field.

what evidence suggests this?
"Your signature should not have the name of other players in the game, nor should it have the words VTL, Vote, or Unvote."
~Yraelz, 2017

Debate challenge 'Solipsism is false:' http://www.debate.org...
If God were real... http://www.debate.org...
Annnaxim
Posts: 435
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3/10/2017 10:32:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2017 1:58:21 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 3/10/2017 9:04:08 AM, Annnaxim wrote:
At 3/10/2017 1:29:11 AM, Smithereens wrote:
The question was what are they made of.
Most likely, they are perturbances in the primordeal electromagnetic field.

what evidence suggests this?
Who knows?
I said most likely.
Smithereens
Posts: 8,358
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3/10/2017 10:48:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2017 10:32:14 PM, Annnaxim wrote:
At 3/10/2017 1:58:21 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 3/10/2017 9:04:08 AM, Annnaxim wrote:
At 3/10/2017 1:29:11 AM, Smithereens wrote:
The question was what are they made of.
Most likely, they are perturbances in the primordeal electromagnetic field.

what evidence suggests this?
Who knows?
I said most likely.

Why most likely instead of least likely?
"Your signature should not have the name of other players in the game, nor should it have the words VTL, Vote, or Unvote."
~Yraelz, 2017

Debate challenge 'Solipsism is false:' http://www.debate.org...
If God were real... http://www.debate.org...
matt8800
Posts: 2,773
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3/11/2017 7:50:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2017 1:57:30 PM, MagicAintReal wrote:
At 3/10/2017 1:29:11 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 3/9/2017 1:01:33 AM, MagicAintReal wrote:
At 3/9/2017 12:58:30 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Suggestions welcomed.

Yeah, electrons are made of leptons.
https://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov...

No. Electrons are leptons. They are not made of leptons.

The question was what are they made of.

Trees are plants and are made of plant matter.
Electrons are leptons and are made of lepton matter.

According to string theory, leptons are made of vibrating "strings" of energy. The vibrational frequency of the string determines the type of particle it is.

I realize that string theory is outside of observational science but I think the math is too elegant to discount the theory.
MagicAintReal
Posts: 1,241
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3/11/2017 8:28:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
According to string theory, leptons are made of vibrating "strings" of energy. The vibrational frequency of the string determines the type of particle it is.

I realize that string theory is outside of observational science but I think the math is too elegant to discount the theory.

The problem is that string theory requires higher dimensions, and rather than demonstrate that these higher dimensions exist, they put mathematical models as placeholders for each of those higher dimensions.
Until the higher dimensions are shown to exist, the amazing math behind string theory is inapplicable.
keithprosser
Posts: 8,122
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3/11/2017 8:53:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/11/2017 7:50:41 PM, matt8800 wrote:
According to string theory, leptons are made of vibrating "strings" of energy. The vibrational frequency of the string determines the type of particle it is.

I am not ashamed to admit I am not an expert on string theory, but I am not sure than they strings of energy, although i suppose they might be as I don't know what energy is either.

But I think the best answer so far is that an electron is a particular sort of "string object", so it made of whatever it is that string objects are made of... which might be energy, or energy in some sense of the word anyway.

Which onlt leads to the question, what is energy made of?
matt8800
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3/11/2017 9:46:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/11/2017 8:53:45 PM, keithprosser wrote:
At 3/11/2017 7:50:41 PM, matt8800 wrote:
According to string theory, leptons are made of vibrating "strings" of energy. The vibrational frequency of the string determines the type of particle it is.

I am not ashamed to admit I am not an expert on string theory, but I am not sure than they strings of energy, although i suppose they might be as I don't know what energy is either.

But I think the best answer so far is that an electron is a particular sort of "string object", so it made of whatever it is that string objects are made of... which might be energy, or energy in some sense of the word anyway.

Which onlt leads to the question, what is energy made of?

I thought about that a lot but have absolutely no idea :)
keithprosser
Posts: 8,122
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3/11/2017 10:03:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/11/2017 9:46:23 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/11/2017 8:53:45 PM, keithprosser wrote:
At 3/11/2017 7:50:41 PM, matt8800 wrote:
According to string theory, leptons are made of vibrating "strings" of energy. The vibrational frequency of the string determines the type of particle it is.

I am not ashamed to admit I am not an expert on string theory, but I am not sure than they strings of energy, although i suppose they might be as I don't know what energy is either.

But I think the best answer so far is that an electron is a particular sort of "string object", so it made of whatever it is that string objects are made of... which might be energy, or energy in some sense of the word anyway.

Which onlt leads to the question, what is energy made of?

I thought about that a lot but have absolutely no idea :)

I suppose I am really asking if there are 'brute facts' that one just has to accept as being "the way things are" or if everything has an explanation....?
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 3,202
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3/11/2017 10:25:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/11/2017 10:03:40 PM, keithprosser wrote:
I suppose I am really asking if there are 'brute facts' that one just has to accept as being "the way things are" or if everything has an explanation....?

If you go down the rabbit hole deep enough, you'll notice the limitations of conceptually trying to understand the world.

Going down this line, trying to figure everything out by thinking, is getting pulled into a whirpool of thoughts, yer hardly gives a final answer. As a society, we are sort of made to obsess with this manner of finding the truth, by drilling into reality with thoughts until we find that core which is un-drillable, which just is.

You never really find that by thinking, lol, and this is both from experience and conviction.

Take a simpler analogy, you may want to know how a flower works. Our normal approach is to dissect it into small parts, where each one of them has its function. Imagine a man who learned everything there is to learn about a flower in a book without ever seeing one or even a picture of one.

If you showed the man a flower, would all that thinking and conceptual framework make the first experience of a flower nothing new?

I believe you'll agree that no amount of learning about the flower will let the man be completely "prepared" for him being shown the flower, experiencing a flower for the first time. He may instantly know to recognize the leaves and petals, but the experience of leaves and petals will be completely new to him. Even though the science may say the leaf is green, seeing the green of the leaf is a whole other story than knowing that "a leaf is green".

Existence is a lot like that. We like to prod until we find something solid, but we never manage to.

Take a look at quantum mechanics. Nothing ever turns out to be solid, everything is wobby and field-like, only in certain frozen snapshots may we say "there's an atom here!", but frozen snapshots of time don't really correspond to any sort of reality.

So you ask, what are electrons made of? Well, you are really asking, when considering our intellectual framework of physics, what would be the constituent elements of what we conceptually know as electrons?

An answer to that would currently be "the electron has no constituent parts". An electron is by the latest theory a perturbation in a quantum field, which is as far removed from experience as you can get.

In the end you get to realize that there's no "substance" you'll find if you drill deep down, the universe isn't made of balls that are just that, little balls that are solid. What we conceive of as substance is just relationship.

An electron is not an electron because an inherent electron exists, it exists as an electron in relation to its surroundings, in relation to the experiment that we do on it.

We can conceive of it as something that exists inherently, and is made of "electronstuff!", but nothing in our science lately has been showing that.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 3,202
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3/11/2017 10:48:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/11/2017 10:03:40 PM, keithprosser wrote:

Reading a book by Hume, a passage concerning pretty much what you are talking about came up and I just have to post it

"I would fain ask those philosophers, who found so much of their reasonings on the distinction of substance and accident, and imagine we have clear ideas of each, whether the idea of substance be derived from the impressions of sensation or of reflection? If it be conveyed to us by our senses, I ask, which of them; and after what manner? If it be perceived by the eyes, it must be a colour; if by the ears, a sound; if by the palate, a taste; and so of the other senses. But I believe none will assert, that substance is either a colour, or sound, or a taste. The idea, of substance must therefore be derived from an impression of reflection, if it really exist. But the impressions of reflection resolve themselves into our passions and emotions: none of which can possibly represent a substance. We have therefore no idea of substance, distinct from that of a collection of particular qualities, nor have we any other meaning when we either talk or reason concerning it.

The idea of a substance as well as that of a mode, is nothing but a collection of Simple ideas, that are united by the imagination, and have a particular name assigned them, by which we are able to recall, either to ourselves or others, that collection."
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
Goldtop
Posts: 6,992
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3/11/2017 10:52:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/11/2017 8:53:45 PM, keithprosser wrote:
At 3/11/2017 7:50:41 PM, matt8800 wrote:
According to string theory, leptons are made of vibrating "strings" of energy. The vibrational frequency of the string determines the type of particle it is.

I am not ashamed to admit I am not an expert on string theory, but I am not sure than they strings of energy, although i suppose they might be as I don't know what energy is either.

But I think the best answer so far is that an electron is a particular sort of "string object", so it made of whatever it is that string objects are made of... which might be energy, or energy in some sense of the word anyway.

Which onlt leads to the question, what is energy made of?

Potential? Kinetic? Thermal? Gravitational? Nuclear?
keithprosser
Posts: 8,122
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3/12/2017 2:58:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/11/2017 10:52:03 PM, Goldtop wrote:
Potential? Kinetic? Thermal? Gravitational? Nuclear?

I don't mind - any of them. What is kinetic energy made of?
Annnaxim
Posts: 435
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3/12/2017 9:48:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2017 2:58:31 AM, keithprosser wrote:
What is kinetic energy made of?
No easy question.
How 'bout "movement of masses"
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 3,202
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3/12/2017 10:41:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2017 9:48:47 AM, Annnaxim wrote:
At 3/12/2017 2:58:31 AM, keithprosser wrote:
What is kinetic energy made of?
No easy question.
How 'bout "movement of masses"

Ooh, I know.

What are the movement of masses made of?

Energy, you say?

What is the energy made of?

Hmm, well what kind of energy?

Well the energy that the masses are made of?

Uhm... ugh... eh...
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
Annnaxim
Posts: 435
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3/12/2017 6:30:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2017 10:41:00 AM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:

Ooh, I know.

What are the movement of masses made of?

Energy, you say?

What is the energy made of?

Hmm, well what kind of energy?

Well the energy that the masses are made of?

Uhm... ugh... eh...
You do your name justice. What else can you do?
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 3,202
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3/12/2017 11:11:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2017 6:30:15 PM, Annnaxim wrote:
At 3/12/2017 10:41:00 AM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:

Ooh, I know.

What are the movement of masses made of?

Energy, you say?

What is the energy made of?

Hmm, well what kind of energy?

Well the energy that the masses are made of?

Uhm... ugh... eh...
You do your name justice. What else can you do?

Just making a point.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
63iam
Posts: 31
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3/13/2017 2:02:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/9/2017 12:58:30 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Suggestions welcomed. :

Invisible thoughts of our creator.
Mharman
Posts: 4,927
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3/13/2017 2:24:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/9/2017 12:59:58 AM, MagicAintReal wrote:
At 3/9/2017 12:58:30 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Suggestions welcomed.

Quarks.

Leptons, actually, not quarks.
DebateArt.com is where all the users went.
MagicAintReal
Posts: 1,241
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3/13/2017 2:29:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/13/2017 2:24:50 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 3/9/2017 12:59:58 AM, MagicAintReal wrote:
At 3/9/2017 12:58:30 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Suggestions welcomed.

Quarks.

Leptons, actually, not quarks.

Uh, I corrected myself the very next post.
v3nesl
Posts: 6,821
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3/13/2017 2:32:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/9/2017 12:58:30 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Suggestions welcomed.

God set nothing to vibrating with itself, and so far, nothing continues to vibrate with itself. An electron is just a frequency, like a note on the harpsichord. It goes well with other notes and makes chords, atoms, and from thence a grand symphony is built.

So of course the important question is: Who is playing this harpsichord? Who set the ethereal strings to vibrating in such precise ratios?
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