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Is gender binary or not?

Chaos88
Posts: 4,097
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7/22/2017 4:13:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have heard a few places now that the common introduction to an audience of "ladies and gentlemen" is prohibited at a certain college. While I have also heard that colleges require gender neutrality (e.g. not saying his or hers, but theirs), so this would be a logical step.

However, is it?

What is gender identity, if it is not male or female? What else is there? I thought the idea was that there is biological sex, and there is social gender, but both or boy and girl. So, how can the phrase "ladies and gentlemen" be offensive, since it appears to be all-inclusive?
bsh1
Posts: 28,555
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7/22/2017 4:16:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At the very least you have intersex people or people born with both sets of sex organs.

However, we should make a distinction between gender and sex. Sex is one's biological assignment. Gender is what one assigns oneself. One could, conceivably, view oneself as neither male nor female, even if one must biologically fall into one or both of those two categories.
I'm a Bish.
Chaos88
Posts: 4,097
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7/22/2017 5:15:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2017 4:16:51 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At the very least you have intersex people or people born with both sets of sex organs.

However, we should make a distinction between gender and sex. Sex is one's biological assignment. Gender is what one assigns oneself.
That seems to be what people say.

One could, conceivably, view oneself as neither male nor female, even if one must biologically fall into one or both of those two categories.
How are you neither? That is my question. You must identify as something. If you can't identify as something, then identity appears to have no meaning. Personally, I never thought it had much meaning to begin with.
Quadrunner
Posts: 5,509
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7/22/2017 6:50:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2017 4:13:17 AM, Chaos88 wrote:
I have heard a few places now that the common introduction to an audience of "ladies and gentlemen" is prohibited at a certain college. While I have also heard that colleges require gender neutrality (e.g. not saying his or hers, but theirs), so this would be a logical step.

However, is it?

What is gender identity, if it is not male or female? What else is there? I thought the idea was that there is biological sex, and there is social gender, but both or boy and girl. So, how can the phrase "ladies and gentlemen" be offensive, since it appears to be all-inclusive?

We'll see how long this definition lasts. I give it 5 years.

The state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
bsh1
Posts: 28,555
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7/22/2017 7:47:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2017 5:15:50 AM, Chaos88 wrote:
At 7/22/2017 4:16:51 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At the very least you have intersex people or people born with both sets of sex organs.

However, we should make a distinction between gender and sex. Sex is one's biological assignment. Gender is what one assigns oneself.
That seems to be what people say.

One could, conceivably, view oneself as neither male nor female, even if one must biologically fall into one or both of those two categories.
How are you neither?

You simply conceive of yourself as something else. You invent an identity or find a term that you believe fits yourself better. Some people feel that they are "genderfluid" for example, meaning that they float between male and female identities. At any one time, they might identify as male or female, but because they shift between moments, they might give their gender as "genderfluid" to reflect that reality.
I'm a Bish.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 9,590
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7/24/2017 3:39:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2017 7:47:41 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/22/2017 5:15:50 AM, Chaos88 wrote:
At 7/22/2017 4:16:51 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At the very least you have intersex people or people born with both sets of sex organs.

However, we should make a distinction between gender and sex. Sex is one's biological assignment. Gender is what one assigns oneself.
That seems to be what people say.

One could, conceivably, view oneself as neither male nor female, even if one must biologically fall into one or both of those two categories.
How are you neither?

You simply conceive of yourself as something else. You invent an identity or find a term that you believe fits yourself better. Some people feel that they are "genderfluid" for example, meaning that they float between male and female identities. At any one time, they might identify as male or female, but because they shift between moments, they might give their gender as "genderfluid" to reflect that reality.

That doesn't change the fact they are some where on the scale between being representative of 2 gender types. We are sort of hard wired for one of the two. Demonstrating a gender type that is neither masculine or feminine is really... like... hard.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 28,555
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7/24/2017 5:14:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2017 3:39:09 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/22/2017 7:47:41 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/22/2017 5:15:50 AM, Chaos88 wrote:
At 7/22/2017 4:16:51 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At the very least you have intersex people or people born with both sets of sex organs.

However, we should make a distinction between gender and sex. Sex is one's biological assignment. Gender is what one assigns oneself.
That seems to be what people say.

One could, conceivably, view oneself as neither male nor female, even if one must biologically fall into one or both of those two categories.
How are you neither?

You simply conceive of yourself as something else. You invent an identity or find a term that you believe fits yourself better. Some people feel that they are "genderfluid" for example, meaning that they float between male and female identities. At any one time, they might identify as male or female, but because they shift between moments, they might give their gender as "genderfluid" to reflect that reality.

That doesn't change the fact they are some where on the scale between being representative of 2 gender types. We are sort of hard wired for one of the two. Demonstrating a gender type that is neither masculine or feminine is really... like... hard.

I don't know. There are many examples of affected androgyny throughout human history.
I'm a Bish.
platoandaristotle
Posts: 82
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7/31/2017 5:58:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Gender is determined by binary chromosome combinations.
However, ones gender identity is nonbinary - some people are transvestites or have gender dysphoria. And we should respect that by letting them keep their gender identity.
Debate me on politics or religion.
I'm a semi-moderate, independent leftist.
I'm also a humanist/atheist freethinker with respect to religion.
Thou shalt make sense.
Quadrunner
Posts: 5,509
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8/1/2017 12:07:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/31/2017 5:58:04 PM, platoandaristotle wrote:
Gender is determined by binary chromosome combinations.
However, ones gender identity is nonbinary - some people are transvestites or have gender dysphoria. And we should respect that by letting them keep their gender identity.

It's still binary though, isn't it?
platoandaristotle
Posts: 82
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8/1/2017 12:10:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2017 12:07:00 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 7/31/2017 5:58:04 PM, platoandaristotle wrote:
Gender is determined by binary chromosome combinations.
However, ones gender identity is nonbinary - some people are transvestites or have gender dysphoria. And we should respect that by letting them keep their gender identity.

It's still binary though, isn't it?
In the technical sense, yes
Debate me on politics or religion.
I'm a semi-moderate, independent leftist.
I'm also a humanist/atheist freethinker with respect to religion.
Thou shalt make sense.
Quadrunner
Posts: 5,509
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8/1/2017 2:07:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2017 12:10:26 AM, platoandaristotle wrote:
At 8/1/2017 12:07:00 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 7/31/2017 5:58:04 PM, platoandaristotle wrote:
Gender is determined by binary chromosome combinations.
However, ones gender identity is nonbinary - some people are transvestites or have gender dysphoria. And we should respect that by letting them keep their gender identity.

It's still binary though, isn't it?
In the technical sense, yes

Okay, so less technically its not....what do you mean by that? Is there room for a third gender that hasn't become culturally normative?
platoandaristotle
Posts: 82
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8/1/2017 2:15:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2017 2:07:31 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 8/1/2017 12:10:26 AM, platoandaristotle wrote:
At 8/1/2017 12:07:00 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 7/31/2017 5:58:04 PM, platoandaristotle wrote:
Gender is determined by binary chromosome combinations.
However, ones gender identity is nonbinary - some people are transvestites or have gender dysphoria. And we should respect that by letting them keep their gender identity.

It's still binary though, isn't it?
In the technical sense, yes

Okay, so less technically its not....what do you mean by that? Is there room for a third gender that hasn't become culturally normative?
There is room for not having a gender, which is not really culturally normative.
Debate me on politics or religion.
I'm a semi-moderate, independent leftist.
I'm also a humanist/atheist freethinker with respect to religion.
Thou shalt make sense.
Chaos88
Posts: 4,097
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8/1/2017 2:38:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2017 2:15:36 AM, platoandaristotle wrote:

There is room for not having a gender, which is not really culturally normative.

But, if gender is based on culture, how can there be no gender? Wouldn't that suppose there is no solid gender roles in said culture? If so, then why not identify with your actual sex, since there is nothing to identify with.

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