Plain Cigarette Packaging
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7/22/2013 5:55:33 AM Posted: 7 years ago It works: http://theconversation.com...
This is very telling of why people smoke, too. To feel like they have a little control. And then once that glossy covering is gone, that silly little world comes crashing down. We're killing ourselves in fear. Ayn Rand: "When a man thinks, there is a spot of fire alive in his mind - and it is proper that he should have the burning point of a cigarette as his one expression." ^Retard. We are throwing ourselves willingly to the devil to feel as if we are in control. Death? Bahh! - way to die a retard, bro... |
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7/22/2013 6:16:48 AM Posted: 7 years ago Full quote: "I like to think of fire held in a man's hand. Fire, a dangerous force, tamed at his fingertips. I often wonder about the hours when a man sits alone, watching the smoke of a cigarette, thinking. I wonder what great things have come from such hours. When a man thinks, there is a spot of fire alive in his mind--and it is proper that he should have the burning point of a cigarette as his one expression."
What a delusory child. |
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7/22/2013 6:26:59 AM Posted: 7 years ago For this reason, too, man will drink to excess. Because he feels insecure in himself. He is no titan, but a fearful creature, and then what does anyone want with him? He paints a picture of this insecurity with his intoxication in the hope that he will be loved regardless. And then some poor souls aren't as good of swimmers as others.
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7/22/2013 6:34:43 AM Posted: 7 years ago Women get very swept up in how men do things, and how men will do things for them, because they have more reason to be afraid than us, to be quite honest. It is all fear. And then men get swept up in Rand's bullsh*t because it's facilitating and they're stupid, in my honest opinion.
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7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM Posted: 7 years ago I hate socialists, So f-ing retarded it hurts.
Let me think about this. Yup! That's entirely why I smoke. It's the shiny wrapper! Now I will quit. My body my choice, right? |
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7/22/2013 3:28:53 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote: What a solid and logically stable argument.
Yet the study of real world people is showing that simply having a blank wrapping does have that effect. And the free market agrees. Companies would not spend billions on advertising and package design if it yielded no benefit to the company.
not absolutely. "Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender" |
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7/22/2013 3:57:19 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 3:28:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:It's not an argument. it's a statement.At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote: That's not an argument and it does not follow. What's makes you think advertising has anyt
It was sarcastic rhetoric. |
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7/22/2013 3:59:49 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote: not if you're poisoning others with your secondhand smoke. "A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault |
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7/22/2013 4:05:25 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 3:57:19 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:28:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:It's not an argument. it's a statement.At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote: And it is completely unsupported. That's not an argument and it does not follow. Would you care to finish that train of thought?
Poe's law. "Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender" |
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7/22/2013 4:07:53 PM Posted: 7 years ago Tch. Australia is fvcking ridiculous sometimes, and those cigarette package laws are one of them.
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7/22/2013 4:11:36 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 4:07:53 PM, DetectableNinja wrote: Why is that? The laws are actually pretty effective at their goal, and they make sense. Companies spend tons of money on that packaging and advertising to increase sales and usage. So cutting that will decrease sales and usage. If you disagree with the goal of the law, that is more with the law makers and politicians, rather than the law itself. "Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender" |
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7/22/2013 4:13:50 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 3:59:49 PM, 000ike wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote: Does the choice over my body end when it's comes at the expense of others? I would agree whole heartily! The problem with my smoking is that I have never poisoned others with my secondhand smoke but I do agree with you. That's why I support smoking in appropriate areas as well as other civil liberties. |
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7/22/2013 4:14:26 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 4:07:53 PM, DetectableNinja wrote: then don't live there :P, there's nothing objectively wrong with very controlling policies. I know my nihilism gets very redundant, but it's not an opinion as far as I'm concerned, it's a truth that invalidates almost EVERYTHING so many of you forward, so you can't just ignore it and keep forwarding those things anyway. So I just prefer to drop the reminder "A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault |
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7/22/2013 4:22:53 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 4:05:25 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:57:19 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:28:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:It's not an argument. it's a statement.At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote: Again, it is a statement. Not an argument. That's not an argument and it does not follow. I was going to but then I realized that the point you were trying to make doesn't lead anywhere. The notion that, tobacco companies spending money on advertising, thus raising the price of cigarettes, only increases the price and therefore reduces demand. That's why it didn't follow. Furthermore, the cost of advertising isn't passed on to the consumer in a way that is meaningful in proportion to the whole cost of a pack of cigarettes. If you understood that, A) what's constitutes the price of a pack of cigarettes or B), that it doesn't even favor your argument, then you wouldn't have even tried to make that point.
You must be very proud. |
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7/22/2013 4:33:16 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 4:22:53 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:At 7/22/2013 4:05:25 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:57:19 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:28:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:It's not an argument. it's a statement.At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote: Advertising increases demand by a greater factor than the higher prices lower it. Leading to a new increase in demand and a net increase in profits. This is why the free market does it. If it wasn't profitable, then no company would advertise. Reality clearly proves you wrong.
The depends entirely on how much money is spent on advertising. Tobacco companies spent almost $10 billion on advertising in 2008 in the US alone, and we already have significant restrictions on their advertising. This is down from the $13.1 billion that was spent in 2005. But if you think that is all wasted money. Feel free to start up a tobacco company with no advertising at all and see how well you do (or any company with no advertising at all). Please don't tell me that you really need a source to know that advertising raises demand for a product.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender" |
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7/22/2013 5:08:49 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 4:14:26 PM, 000ike wrote:At 7/22/2013 4:07:53 PM, DetectableNinja wrote: Not to offend (not my intention here) but you really are one of the most philosophically lazy nihilists I've come across :/ : At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote: : The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago. |
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7/22/2013 5:09:14 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 3:59:49 PM, 000ike wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote: What's objectively wrong with that? : At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote: : The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago. |
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7/22/2013 5:18:56 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 4:33:16 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:I don't argue over economics on the internet. The idea that an unchanging package accounts for an advertising strategy is making a mole hill into a mountain. That's a desperate posture for you to take.At 7/22/2013 4:22:53 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:At 7/22/2013 4:05:25 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:57:19 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:28:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:It's not an argument. it's a statement.At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:
No. It doesn't. It's depends on objective reality. Tobacco companies spent almost $10 billion on advertising in 2008 in the US alone, and we already have significant restrictions on their advertising. This is down from the $13.1 billion that was spent in 2005. But if you think that is all wasted money. Feel free to start up a tobacco company with no advertising at all and see how well you do (or any company with no advertising at all). I don't think you understand the tobacco industry.
You're trying to change your argument into something materially different than the original. |
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7/22/2013 5:21:48 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 5:09:14 PM, Noumena wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:59:49 PM, 000ike wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote: Nothing, many "objective nihilists" simply use the "no objective morals" to fight off any opposing morals, while not applying it to their own morals. He should realize that he is actually a normative moral relativist, or maybe a ME relativist, but not likely (could become one someday). "Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender" |
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7/22/2013 5:28:59 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 5:08:49 PM, Noumena wrote:At 7/22/2013 4:14:26 PM, 000ike wrote:At 7/22/2013 4:07:53 PM, DetectableNinja wrote: Philosophy's boring. Ethical philosophy is particularly logically unstable. I don't think it's a worthy investment of time to read about or develop more on anything beyond denial of the illogical. "A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault |
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7/22/2013 5:29:28 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 5:18:56 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:At 7/22/2013 4:33:16 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:I don't argue over economics on the internet.At 7/22/2013 4:22:53 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:At 7/22/2013 4:05:25 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:57:19 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:28:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:It's not an argument. it's a statement.At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote: I can see why. The idea that an unchanging package accounts for an advertising strategy is making a mole hill into a mountain. That's a desperate posture for you to take. I'm sure Coca-Cola has little vested interested in their logos that are on their cans, too.
False, once you say "meaningful" you are no longer talking about anything objective. What one person views as meaningful may not reach the threshold of another. And it varies from industry to industry. However, you've done absolutely nothing to refute that advertising in general (and of course, for tobacco) is a useful tool to raise demand. Tobacco companies spent almost $10 billion on advertising in 2008 in the US alone, and we already have significant restrictions on their advertising. This is down from the $13.1 billion that was spent in 2005.But if you think that is all wasted money. Feel free to start up a tobacco company with no advertising at all and see how well you do (or any company with no advertising at all). I don't think you understand basic economics, whats your point?
no, I'm focusing on a key point of my initial argument. And that was that advertising is a key component to smoking rates. The law attacks one key form of advertising (brand recognition) which is shown to lower the appeal of smoking and increases the desire to quit. This argument is focused around whether advertising is really someone that has an effect and so something worth targeting. If you want to back out, just simply don't respond. "Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender" |
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7/22/2013 5:31:38 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 5:09:14 PM, Noumena wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:59:49 PM, 000ike wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote: nothing. I don't like it, so I complained about it. Pretty straightforward "A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault |
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7/22/2013 5:34:06 PM Posted: 7 years ago Llama, advertising primarily raises overall demand, not quantity demanded. When overall demand increases, both price and quantity demanded go up. If the advertising were to be removed, thus decreasing demand, both price and quantity demanded would go down. This is just basic economics.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org... Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder |
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7/22/2013 5:58:04 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 5:34:06 PM, ClassicRobert wrote: You're confusing a perspective on tobacco packaging for ignorance of advertising. And to be honest, I find it insulting. If that was the purpose then I'd say, mission accomplished. It's done nothing else but annoyed me. |
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7/22/2013 6:03:18 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 5:58:04 PM, llamainmypocket wrote:At 7/22/2013 5:34:06 PM, ClassicRobert wrote: This was not meant to insult. This was meant to address this "I was going to but then I realized that the point you were trying to make doesn't lead anywhere. The notion that, tobacco companies spending money on advertising, thus raising the price of cigarettes, only increases the price and therefore reduces demand. That's why it didn't follow." When you said this, you were confusing demand and quantity demanded. I thought that I would clear it up. Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org... Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder |
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7/22/2013 6:13:44 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 5:28:59 PM, 000ike wrote:At 7/22/2013 5:08:49 PM, Noumena wrote:At 7/22/2013 4:14:26 PM, 000ike wrote:At 7/22/2013 4:07:53 PM, DetectableNinja wrote: i.e., philosophically lazy : At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote: : The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago. |
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7/22/2013 6:14:46 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 5:31:38 PM, 000ike wrote:At 7/22/2013 5:09:14 PM, Noumena wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:59:49 PM, 000ike wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote: Please stop running nihilism against opposition if yer going to pull posts like the aforementioned. : At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote: : The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago. |
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7/22/2013 6:17:34 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 6:14:46 PM, Noumena wrote:At 7/22/2013 5:31:38 PM, 000ike wrote:At 7/22/2013 5:09:14 PM, Noumena wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:59:49 PM, 000ike wrote:At 7/22/2013 3:20:12 PM, llamainmypocket wrote: the subjects of my objections are not ethical idealizations in themselves, but the justifications for them. People can assert whatever they want (as can I), so long as they understand that what they're saying can't be logically proven, so they shouldn't attempt to do so. "A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault |
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7/22/2013 6:18:24 PM Posted: 7 years ago Actually, no one who supports plain packaging things it will sway hard core smokers.
However, it will help reduce the popular appeal of cigarettes that comes through brand marketing. It reduces perceived quality of the cigarettes. |
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7/22/2013 6:18:46 PM Posted: 7 years ago At 7/22/2013 6:17:34 PM, 000ike wrote: that's pretty careless verbiage. *They CAN'T do so. "A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault |
