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DDO's silent support of sexual violence

kbub
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9/25/2014 6:34:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 6:21:51 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:49:09 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:34:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
I agree that the debate is pretty disgusting and probably shouldn't have been tolerated. I would, however like to see some evidence for your charge of this site being unwelcome to minorities and gay people because, frankly, that's just not true.

Thanks for your comments and interest!

I've got a list compiled. If you can, please message me later and I'll give a sample.

Recently, before gender was not a forced m/f, I looked up the statistics. I disproportionate number of debaters were male. I then looked at the highest ranking, and found that gap was far larger--there were far, far more men ranked over 2500 than female, and at 3000 the gap increased more. Are women worse at debating? I find that unlikely. I hypothesize instead that for some reason, this website is unfriendly to debating women, and especially debating women who can succeed. I'm not sure if it's voter bias, if it's unfriendly comments, or if it's problematic rhetoric like the kind found in this debate, or problematic marketing that has made this website unfriendly to highly skillful women debaters. It could be a combination of all of them. Or none of them. But something needs to change.

The thing is, a hypothesis requires evidence. It can't be post hoc. If there truly is discrimination against females on the site, the fact that females are less well represented in the debate leaderboard doesn't prove anything because there are a lot of factors at play. It's not as if a lot of women join this site and are immediately turned off by its sexist chauvinism--or if they are, I haven't seen any examples of that. Rather what's happening is that women just aren't as interested in online debating but the ones who have been here have generally been quite successful and welcomed by the community. So yeah, this is one of those "do you have a card for that" moments. Where's the sexism? Wylteds debate is pretty fuckedd up, I'll agree, but I'll also note that by making rape an issue affecting only women *you're* the one being sexist. Wylted is just being an assshole and, indeed, one of his selected rapes had a male victim.

Now, I am tempted to work with the hypothesis that women are not interested in Debate.org generally. However, that doesn't explain why there is a bigger gap for higher ranking members than lower ranking members. This means that the problem isn't in recruiting females--it's in keeping them.

Now, I don't mean to imply that Wylted's debate is the reason for women not being part of debate.org. However, I do want to point out that Wylted's and the voter's apathy for issues of sexual violence are an example of sexism. Naturally, rape occurs for people of all gender. However, I think that a debate website whose members condone or allow positive responses to sexual violence (such as one prominent debater who had written that he was "turned on" by the stories of rape) makes the website especially unsafe for women and other sexual and gender minorities, who are especially vulnerable to rape in real life.

Thank you sincerely for your accusation of sexism. Honestly. It's refreshing to see debaters be on alert for sexism, although I don't think I'm being sexist in this case. However, I'll bear that criticism in mind just in case.


Look through the photos of debaters sometime. Tally the bodies of white people against the bodies of people of color (Latin@, black, First Nation, etc. all separately of course). There is a disproportionate number of white people in regard to the United States and the common European countries on this website. Let alone the Congo or Peru.

Again, you're taking statistics and making assumptions about them. Where's the racism? I also would like to see the statistics. Are whites really over represented? Do you have proof of this?

Unfortunately, debate.org does not keep track of such statistics. The only evidence I can offer is the fact that there are practically no profile pictures of black or Latin@ or First Nation persons or any other persons of color. I can also give examples of many many ridiculous or subtle examples of racism on the site, although of course, I can hardly go through every post and analyze the data of this website vs. others. I think, however, of the data that are available the picture is pretty clear.


The explicit anti-minority comments I've kept track of (a small fraction) I'll send to you if you remind me. Thanks again!

I would like to see that list.

Thanks! Remind me later tonight if you are able.
Mikal
Posts: 11,252
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9/25/2014 6:39:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 6:10:33 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 4:30:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.

It's not going to get deleted as none of the other views on extreme issues are. There is a debate in the hall of fame about black people being done. It's a debate site, if you don't like extreme positions or topics leave.

I will not allow you nor any one else to bully me into submission, silence, or off the site. I am painfully aware that we award accolades to racism, but thanks for the reminder. I also have never said that censorship is the way to root out racism and sexism on this website.

There are easier ways.

We could avoid saying racist and sexist things in our comments, in our forums, and in our RFDs. We can stop condoning racism, sexism, cisism, and all the other forms of exclusion and start condemning them. We don't have to rely on airmax to defend homosexuality, Trans* expression, or people of color (have we ever?). The problem is us--we the members of debate.org--and no one else. I pray we can also be the solution.

Dude bully you into submission, you sound like a damn hippie. The vote was invalid, the issue is offensive. Deal with it and move on. The entire point was that the vote was horrible which it was
thett3
Posts: 15,380
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9/25/2014 6:41:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 6:34:28 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:21:51 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:49:09 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:34:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
I agree that the debate is pretty disgusting and probably shouldn't have been tolerated. I would, however like to see some evidence for your charge of this site being unwelcome to minorities and gay people because, frankly, that's just not true.

Thanks for your comments and interest!

I've got a list compiled. If you can, please message me later and I'll give a sample.

Recently, before gender was not a forced m/f, I looked up the statistics. I disproportionate number of debaters were male. I then looked at the highest ranking, and found that gap was far larger--there were far, far more men ranked over 2500 than female, and at 3000 the gap increased more. Are women worse at debating? I find that unlikely. I hypothesize instead that for some reason, this website is unfriendly to debating women, and especially debating women who can succeed. I'm not sure if it's voter bias, if it's unfriendly comments, or if it's problematic rhetoric like the kind found in this debate, or problematic marketing that has made this website unfriendly to highly skillful women debaters. It could be a combination of all of them. Or none of them. But something needs to change.

The thing is, a hypothesis requires evidence. It can't be post hoc. If there truly is discrimination against females on the site, the fact that females are less well represented in the debate leaderboard doesn't prove anything because there are a lot of factors at play. It's not as if a lot of women join this site and are immediately turned off by its sexist chauvinism--or if they are, I haven't seen any examples of that. Rather what's happening is that women just aren't as interested in online debating but the ones who have been here have generally been quite successful and welcomed by the community. So yeah, this is one of those "do you have a card for that" moments. Where's the sexism? Wylteds debate is pretty fuckedd up, I'll agree, but I'll also note that by making rape an issue affecting only women *you're* the one being sexist. Wylted is just being an assshole and, indeed, one of his selected rapes had a male victim.

Now, I am tempted to work with the hypothesis that women are not interested in Debate.org generally. However, that doesn't explain why there is a bigger gap for higher ranking members than lower ranking members. This means that the problem isn't in recruiting females--it's in keeping them.

Ahh, okay. Well you could be right that the disparity exists due to sexism, but it could also be a number of other things. I'm just tempted to rule out that hypothesis because my experience with the site is so contrary to that but that isn't exactly a scientific explanation.

Now, I don't mean to imply that Wylted's debate is the reason for women not being part of debate.org. However, I do want to point out that Wylted's and the voter's apathy for issues of sexual violence are an example of sexism. Naturally, rape occurs for people of all gender. However, I think that a debate website whose members condone or allow positive responses to sexual violence (such as one prominent debater who had written that he was "turned on" by the stories of rape) makes the website especially unsafe for women and other sexual and gender minorities, who are especially vulnerable to rape in real life.

True, as women suffer rape more often the impact a debate like this would have would be, on balance, greater for the average woman than for the average male. I'd note however the overwhelming outcry against the debate, even if that didn't exactly translate into votes.

Thank you sincerely for your accusation of sexism. Honestly. It's refreshing to see debaters be on alert for sexism, although I don't think I'm being sexist in this case. However, I'll bear that criticism in mind just in case.



Look through the photos of debaters sometime. Tally the bodies of white people against the bodies of people of color (Latin@, black, First Nation, etc. all separately of course). There is a disproportionate number of white people in regard to the United States and the common European countries on this website. Let alone the Congo or Peru.

Again, you're taking statistics and making assumptions about them. Where's the racism? I also would like to see the statistics. Are whites really over represented? Do you have proof of this?

Unfortunately, debate.org does not keep track of such statistics. The only evidence I can offer is the fact that there are practically no profile pictures of black or Latin@ or First Nation persons or any other persons of color.

Not many people have their avatars as pictures of themselves...moreover I still don't take this as proof of racism. Even if the site was 95% white, until it's proven that the disparity exists due to racism I reject the criticism. I've seen very very little racism on the site.

As it stands I'm fairly certain asians are over represented on this site although I wouldn't bet on it.

I can also give examples of many many ridiculous or subtle examples of racism on the site, although of course, I can hardly go through every post and analyze the data of this website vs. others. I think, however, of the data that are available the picture is pretty clear.

I would like to see some examples, though. I'm sure there's racism on DDO just as there is everywhere. I just don't think it's nearly as prolific as you say it is


The explicit anti-minority comments I've kept track of (a small fraction) I'll send to you if you remind me. Thanks again!

I would like to see that list.

Thanks! Remind me later tonight if you are able.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
kbub
Posts: 1,343
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9/25/2014 6:47:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 6:39:52 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:10:33 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 4:30:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.

It's not going to get deleted as none of the other views on extreme issues are. There is a debate in the hall of fame about black people being done. It's a debate site, if you don't like extreme positions or topics leave.

I will not allow you nor any one else to bully me into submission, silence, or off the site. I am painfully aware that we award accolades to racism, but thanks for the reminder. I also have never said that censorship is the way to root out racism and sexism on this website.

There are easier ways.

We could avoid saying racist and sexist things in our comments, in our forums, and in our RFDs. We can stop condoning racism, sexism, cisism, and all the other forms of exclusion and start condemning them. We don't have to rely on airmax to defend homosexuality, Trans* expression, or people of color (have we ever?). The problem is us--we the members of debate.org--and no one else. I pray we can also be the solution.

Dude bully you into submission, you sound like a damn hippie. The vote was invalid, the issue is offensive. Deal with it and move on. The entire point was that the vote was horrible which it was

I seem to remember an RFD of: "Wylted turned everyone on." Who said that?
Mikal
Posts: 11,252
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9/25/2014 6:51:00 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 6:47:32 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:39:52 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:10:33 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 4:30:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.

It's not going to get deleted as none of the other views on extreme issues are. There is a debate in the hall of fame about black people being done. It's a debate site, if you don't like extreme positions or topics leave.

I will not allow you nor any one else to bully me into submission, silence, or off the site. I am painfully aware that we award accolades to racism, but thanks for the reminder. I also have never said that censorship is the way to root out racism and sexism on this website.

There are easier ways.

We could avoid saying racist and sexist things in our comments, in our forums, and in our RFDs. We can stop condoning racism, sexism, cisism, and all the other forms of exclusion and start condemning them. We don't have to rely on airmax to defend homosexuality, Trans* expression, or people of color (have we ever?). The problem is us--we the members of debate.org--and no one else. I pray we can also be the solution.

Dude bully you into submission, you sound like a damn hippie. The vote was invalid, the issue is offensive. Deal with it and move on. The entire point was that the vote was horrible which it was

I seem to remember an RFD of: "Wylted turned everyone on." Who said that?

It was a truism that pro won. i could have typed (adsflkajdsfasdlfkasjdf) and it would have been logically valid because con FFed the entire debate. That is entirely different than trying ot justify a con vote when he made no arguments at all pertaining to the content of the debate.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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9/25/2014 6:57:58 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 6:51:00 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:47:32 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:39:52 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:10:33 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 4:30:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.

It's not going to get deleted as none of the other views on extreme issues are. There is a debate in the hall of fame about black people being done. It's a debate site, if you don't like extreme positions or topics leave.

I will not allow you nor any one else to bully me into submission, silence, or off the site. I am painfully aware that we award accolades to racism, but thanks for the reminder. I also have never said that censorship is the way to root out racism and sexism on this website.

There are easier ways.

We could avoid saying racist and sexist things in our comments, in our forums, and in our RFDs. We can stop condoning racism, sexism, cisism, and all the other forms of exclusion and start condemning them. We don't have to rely on airmax to defend homosexuality, Trans* expression, or people of color (have we ever?). The problem is us--we the members of debate.org--and no one else. I pray we can also be the solution.

Dude bully you into submission, you sound like a damn hippie. The vote was invalid, the issue is offensive. Deal with it and move on. The entire point was that the vote was horrible which it was

I seem to remember an RFD of: "Wylted turned everyone on." Who said that?

It was a truism that pro won. i could have typed (adsflkajdsfasdlfkasjdf) and it would have been logically valid because con FFed the entire debate. That is entirely different than trying ot justify a con vote when he made no arguments at all pertaining to the content of the debate.

http://www.debate.org...
Mikal
Posts: 11,252
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9/25/2014 6:59:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 6:57:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:51:00 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:47:32 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:39:52 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:10:33 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 4:30:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.

It's not going to get deleted as none of the other views on extreme issues are. There is a debate in the hall of fame about black people being done. It's a debate site, if you don't like extreme positions or topics leave.

I will not allow you nor any one else to bully me into submission, silence, or off the site. I am painfully aware that we award accolades to racism, but thanks for the reminder. I also have never said that censorship is the way to root out racism and sexism on this website.

There are easier ways.

We could avoid saying racist and sexist things in our comments, in our forums, and in our RFDs. We can stop condoning racism, sexism, cisism, and all the other forms of exclusion and start condemning them. We don't have to rely on airmax to defend homosexuality, Trans* expression, or people of color (have we ever?). The problem is us--we the members of debate.org--and no one else. I pray we can also be the solution.

Dude bully you into submission, you sound like a damn hippie. The vote was invalid, the issue is offensive. Deal with it and move on. The entire point was that the vote was horrible which it was

I seem to remember an RFD of: "Wylted turned everyone on." Who said that?

It was a truism that pro won. i could have typed (adsflkajdsfasdlfkasjdf) and it would have been logically valid because con FFed the entire debate. That is entirely different than trying ot justify a con vote when he made no arguments at all pertaining to the content of the debate.

http://www.debate.org...

That is a an actually K and specifically challenged the guidelines of the debate. Saying

"FUk you wylted you sick perfever, im tyring todh help you , herpa derpa i cant type"

Is not a K. nor is it a valid argument.
kbub
Posts: 1,343
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9/25/2014 7:00:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 6:51:00 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:47:32 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:39:52 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:10:33 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 4:30:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.

It's not going to get deleted as none of the other views on extreme issues are. There is a debate in the hall of fame about black people being done. It's a debate site, if you don't like extreme positions or topics leave.

I will not allow you nor any one else to bully me into submission, silence, or off the site. I am painfully aware that we award accolades to racism, but thanks for the reminder. I also have never said that censorship is the way to root out racism and sexism on this website.

There are easier ways.

We could avoid saying racist and sexist things in our comments, in our forums, and in our RFDs. We can stop condoning racism, sexism, cisism, and all the other forms of exclusion and start condemning them. We don't have to rely on airmax to defend homosexuality, Trans* expression, or people of color (have we ever?). The problem is us--we the members of debate.org--and no one else. I pray we can also be the solution.

Dude bully you into submission, you sound like a damn hippie. The vote was invalid, the issue is offensive. Deal with it and move on. The entire point was that the vote was horrible which it was

I seem to remember an RFD of: "Wylted turned everyone on." Who said that?

It was a truism that pro won. i could have typed (adsflkajdsfasdlfkasjdf) and it would have been logically valid because con FFed the entire debate. That is entirely different than trying ot justify a con vote when he made no arguments at all pertaining to the content of the debate.

And you lecture on the sanctity of the vote.

1. Your RFD talks about how you are turned on by real life stories sexual violence.
2. Your RFD gives Mikal the win BECAUSE you are so turned on.
3. You admit your RFD was utter nonsense.
4. You claim that my vote was "horrible" and I am ruining the "sanctity of the vote."
5. You claim that a 7-point vote breaks the rules (despite my having justified all 7 points).
6. You immediately provide a 7-point counter-vote, which is against the rules.

I'm not sure where else to go with this except to say that you do not care about the sanctity of the vote, that I do my best on my votes, and that I have a serious problem with your publicly fetishizing rape victims. That being said, I'm thankful you changed your original RFD to something more ethical.

Do you have any other issues with my vote?
Mikal
Posts: 11,252
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9/25/2014 7:01:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 7:00:40 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:51:00 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:47:32 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:39:52 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:10:33 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 4:30:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.

It's not going to get deleted as none of the other views on extreme issues are. There is a debate in the hall of fame about black people being done. It's a debate site, if you don't like extreme positions or topics leave.

I will not allow you nor any one else to bully me into submission, silence, or off the site. I am painfully aware that we award accolades to racism, but thanks for the reminder. I also have never said that censorship is the way to root out racism and sexism on this website.

There are easier ways.

We could avoid saying racist and sexist things in our comments, in our forums, and in our RFDs. We can stop condoning racism, sexism, cisism, and all the other forms of exclusion and start condemning them. We don't have to rely on airmax to defend homosexuality, Trans* expression, or people of color (have we ever?). The problem is us--we the members of debate.org--and no one else. I pray we can also be the solution.

Dude bully you into submission, you sound like a damn hippie. The vote was invalid, the issue is offensive. Deal with it and move on. The entire point was that the vote was horrible which it was

I seem to remember an RFD of: "Wylted turned everyone on." Who said that?

It was a truism that pro won. i could have typed (adsflkajdsfasdlfkasjdf) and it would have been logically valid because con FFed the entire debate. That is entirely different than trying ot justify a con vote when he made no arguments at all pertaining to the content of the debate.

And you lecture on the sanctity of the vote.

1. Your RFD talks about how you are turned on by real life stories sexual violence.
2. Your RFD gives Mikal the win BECAUSE you are so turned on.
3. You admit your RFD was utter nonsense.
4. You claim that my vote was "horrible" and I am ruining the "sanctity of the vote."
5. You claim that a 7-point vote breaks the rules (despite my having justified all 7 points).
6. You immediately provide a 7-point counter-vote, which is against the rules.

I'm not sure where else to go with this except to say that you do not care about the sanctity of the vote, that I do my best on my votes, and that I have a serious problem with your publicly fetishizing rape victims. That being said, I'm thankful you changed your original RFD to something more ethical.

Do you have any other issues with my vote?

Yes it objectively sucks
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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9/25/2014 7:09:43 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 6:59:37 PM, Mikal wrote:

http://www.debate.org...

That is a an actually K and specifically challenged the guidelines of the debate. Saying

"FUk you wylted you sick perfever, im tyring todh help you , herpa derpa i cant type"

Is not a K. nor is it a valid argument.

You know what?
You're right. I am making arguments he didn't make. I am building a logical case he didn't lay much of a foundation for.
I wish to God kbub had debated that instead so I could actually be justified in voting that way rather than justified only in the ideal of what he was trying to do.

That doesn't change the fact that this is an "objectively" wrong debate. I want it removed. I will do what's in my power to get it removed. This debate is not only offensive, not only against the TOS, not only dangerous, but a poor reflection on both Juggle and the DDO community as a whole. I do not desire to associate with a site that encourages rape.
Mikal
Posts: 11,252
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9/25/2014 7:12:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 7:09:43 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:59:37 PM, Mikal wrote:

http://www.debate.org...

That is a an actually K and specifically challenged the guidelines of the debate. Saying

"FUk you wylted you sick perfever, im tyring todh help you , herpa derpa i cant type"

Is not a K. nor is it a valid argument.

You know what?
You're right. I am making arguments he didn't make. I am building a logical case he didn't lay much of a foundation for.
I wish to God kbub had debated that instead so I could actually be justified in voting that way rather than justified only in the ideal of what he was trying to do.

That doesn't change the fact that this is an "objectively" wrong debate. I want it removed. I will do what's in my power to get it removed. This debate is not only offensive, not only against the TOS, not only dangerous, but a poor reflection on both Juggle and the DDO community as a whole. I do not desire to associate with a site that encourages rape.

That I concede too, but you are not going to get it removed sadly. As long as you admit you are making arguments for him, I have no qualms. Don't say he made the arguments and justified it, because it did not happen nor is it a valid vote

If you get it removed props to you, but I highly doubt that is going to happen
Mikal
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9/25/2014 7:15:31 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 7:09:43 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

I reported the debate the second it was posted and there are worst debates on the site. Its demeaning and sad, but a win is a win. I wish you the best in your quest to get it removed
EndarkenedRationalist
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9/25/2014 7:15:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 7:12:27 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 7:09:43 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:59:37 PM, Mikal wrote:

http://www.debate.org...

That is a an actually K and specifically challenged the guidelines of the debate. Saying

"FUk you wylted you sick perfever, im tyring todh help you , herpa derpa i cant type"

Is not a K. nor is it a valid argument.

You know what?
You're right. I am making arguments he didn't make. I am building a logical case he didn't lay much of a foundation for.
I wish to God kbub had debated that instead so I could actually be justified in voting that way rather than justified only in the ideal of what he was trying to do.

That doesn't change the fact that this is an "objectively" wrong debate. I want it removed. I will do what's in my power to get it removed. This debate is not only offensive, not only against the TOS, not only dangerous, but a poor reflection on both Juggle and the DDO community as a whole. I do not desire to associate with a site that encourages rape.

That I concede too, but you are not going to get it removed sadly. As long as you admit you are making arguments for him, I have no qualms. Don't say he made the arguments and justified it, because it did not happen nor is it a valid vote

I moved my vote back to 0-0.

If you get it removed props to you, but I highly doubt that is going to happen

I can try.
EndarkenedRationalist
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9/25/2014 7:16:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 7:15:31 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 7:09:43 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

I reported the debate the second it was posted and there are worst debates on the site. Its demeaning and sad, but a win is a win. I wish you the best in your quest to get it removed

Thank you, Mikal.
kbub
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9/25/2014 7:21:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 7:15:31 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 7:09:43 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

I reported the debate the second it was posted and there are worst debates on the site. Its demeaning and sad, but a win is a win. I wish you the best in your quest to get it removed

Now that is a Reason For Decision I can get behind.
Anonymous
9/25/2014 7:34:15 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 2:40:25 PM, whiteflame wrote:
At 9/25/2014 2:11:09 PM, kbub wrote:
Recently, a debate has been put forward by Wylted and accepted by YaHey. The debate was called "rape battle," and it challenged to put forward the "best rape" to win.

The best rape.

Historically, debate.org has had issues being welcoming to minorities. Posting racist and sexist polls on the website is commonplace. Making blatantly homophobic and Transphobic remarks on the forums is considered a matter-of-course. And now this.

"Here is my second story it involves 4 fat chicks raping a drunk dude after a night of partying. The good news is these fat chicks were never caught."

Beyond the mere exhibition of rape victims without their consent as if they were memes or gifs, Wylted has taken to exoticising rape. He asks us to follow him, as if in a museum, to observe an point to the different displays of sexual violence. He asks us to admire the "best" of them--the weirdest, the most exotic. He directs our attention to the ugly, the queer: "Look at this rape! This one has fat chicks." Or, "See this rape by a man and a woman against the woman's sister who was sold into slavery." The horror of the victim is somehow made even more amusing because the women were fat, or the fact that one victim was a slave, or the fact that one victim was raped by a member of her family.

Wylted's "battle" trivializes sexual violence, insults victims of sexual violence, and parades their traumatic experiences for the entertainment and judgement of the other debate.org members. The triple rape committed by three fat women and the double rape committed by a lesbian-mistress-sister and another man merely add to the entertainment of the display of acts of sexual violence that Wylted puts forward.

The truth is that the "best" rape is no rape at all. We have an obligation to put this truth forward wherever and however we can--be in in the comments, in a forum, in a vote, in a debate, or in a discussion. YaHey responded appropriately to Wylted's display--he pointed out that rape isn't a game, and having a contest to display the most outrageous rape victims/attackers is not a game. All worthy points. The best line of the debate is the end: "You do not inspire shock, my friend [Wylted]. You inspire pity."

But I was shocked by the debate. Not only by the willingness of one member to make up this horrid game in the first place, but the willingness with which members of DDO let that happen, and even approved of it. The website's "best" debaters took turns voting for Wylted, without a word condemning or even rebutting his inappropriate display.

A total of 20 people voted on the debate so far, and together they awarded him 95 points. Only one debater gave YaHey even a conduct point, leaving him a total of 1 point. The comments displayed varying level of depravity, from whiteflame who suggested that criticism of the debate ought to be moved to the comments, to tylergram who praised the debate as "Best raep stories 5evar," to TUF who (in the comments) said the debate "Had me on the floor laughing until the boring last round," to Mikal who offered Wylted's rape stories win because they "turned everyone on." I am appalled at all the members, both those who actively supported Wylted's display of sexual violence and those who couldn't be bothered to oppose it.

Every single voter effectively admitted that the "best" rapes were those that Wylted displayed. Many of the voters suggested that it is inappropriate to oppose sexual violence in a debate round, even if one's opponent is supporting sexual violence, if doing so is off-topic. The worst proclaimed that sexual violence is kinky, which violates the dignity of both these rape victims and every victim of sexual violence.

I am ashamed by debate.org's silent and outspoken toleration of sexual violence, and of rape. I am not saying this merely to condemn debate.org, but to hopefully make it better. Right now, the statistics in DDO show that there is a definite male over female majority. Furthermore, there are almost no black bodies on this website. This system must change, and it begins and ends with us--it's members. We have no one else to blame. Apathy is no longer sufficient (was it ever?). We must dedicate ourselves to fighting oppression in all its forms--whether by reporting bullies, by challenging racist assumptions, or by defending victims of sexual violence. We must do so in the forums, in the comments, in the messages, in the debates, in the video conversations, in the forums, in the polls, and even in our games of mafia.

I would lie if I said I don't feel a twinge of shame at being a member of debate.org at this moment. But I believe in that shame, I nurture that shame. That shame means that there is something wrong with the way things are, that this-THIS-is not the way things are supposed to be. Shame brings me hope that people everywhere will be motivated enough to make a difference. At this juncture, however, I feel an overwhelming pessimism that people do not learn, and oppressive systems do not change. Have you felt that before? I invite you, and beg you really, to prove me wrong.

Thanks for your time.

I know you're upset with the situation, kbub, but these accusations you're throwing at every voter on that debate are taking it a little far. I can't speak for everyone, but in my case, my vote is not an expression of my views on rape, nor does it treat Wylted's choice of topic and the examples used to support his position as reasonable. I made it quite clear in my vote that YaHey's usage of insults in this debate in no way warranted what should have been an obvious conduct point for him. His "arguments" were, at best, pseudo critiques of the topic without the necessary reasoning to afford him a vote. YaHey basically used the debate as an outlet to express his hatred of the topic, and while I can sympathize with him, that is not reason enough to afford him a vote.

If your point is that my vote and others should have included some explicit condemnation of Wylted and the debate as a whole, I don't think it's my place as a voter to inject my emotional sentiments into my decision. As a member of DDO, I found the topic repugnant and the examples excruciating, but I don't have to express those views in my decision, nor does my decision reflect my views, something I've made great efforts to distance myself from in judging debates. I'll let the others speak for themselves if they so wish, but personally, I take issue with the view that my vote somehow indicates my willingness to tolerate rape in general.

This.
kbub
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9/25/2014 8:42:11 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 6:41:02 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:34:28 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 6:21:51 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:49:09 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:34:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
I agree that the debate is pretty disgusting and probably shouldn't have been tolerated. I would, however like to see some evidence for your charge of this site being unwelcome to minorities and gay people because, frankly, that's just not true.

Thanks for your comments and interest!

I've got a list compiled. If you can, please message me later and I'll give a sample.

Recently, before gender was not a forced m/f, I looked up the statistics. I disproportionate number of debaters were male. I then looked at the highest ranking, and found that gap was far larger--there were far, far more men ranked over 2500 than female, and at 3000 the gap increased more. Are women worse at debating? I find that unlikely. I hypothesize instead that for some reason, this website is unfriendly to debating women, and especially debating women who can succeed. I'm not sure if it's voter bias, if it's unfriendly comments, or if it's problematic rhetoric like the kind found in this debate, or problematic marketing that has made this website unfriendly to highly skillful women debaters. It could be a combination of all of them. Or none of them. But something needs to change.

The thing is, a hypothesis requires evidence. It can't be post hoc. If there truly is discrimination against females on the site, the fact that females are less well represented in the debate leaderboard doesn't prove anything because there are a lot of factors at play. It's not as if a lot of women join this site and are immediately turned off by its sexist chauvinism--or if they are, I haven't seen any examples of that. Rather what's happening is that women just aren't as interested in online debating but the ones who have been here have generally been quite successful and welcomed by the community. So yeah, this is one of those "do you have a card for that" moments. Where's the sexism? Wylteds debate is pretty f*****d up, I'll agree, but I'll also note that by making rape an issue affecting only women *you're* the one being sexist. Wylted is just being an a**shole and, indeed, one of his selected rapes had a male victim.

Now, I am tempted to work with the hypothesis that women are not interested in Debate.org generally. However, that doesn't explain why there is a bigger gap for higher ranking members than lower ranking members. This means that the problem isn't in recruiting females--it's in keeping them.

Ahh, okay. Well you could be right that the disparity exists due to sexism, but it could also be a number of other things. I'm just tempted to rule out that hypothesis because my experience with the site is so contrary to that but that isn't exactly a scientific explanation.

Now, I don't mean to imply that Wylted's debate is the reason for women not being part of debate.org. However, I do want to point out that Wylted's and the voter's apathy for issues of sexual violence are an example of sexism. Naturally, rape occurs for people of all gender. However, I think that a debate website whose members condone or allow positive responses to sexual violence (such as one prominent debater who had written that he was "turned on" by the stories of rape) makes the website especially unsafe for women and other sexual and gender minorities, who are especially vulnerable to rape in real life.

True, as women suffer rape more often the impact a debate like this would have would be, on balance, greater for the average woman than for the average male. I'd note however the overwhelming outcry against the debate, even if that didn't exactly translate into votes.

Thank you sincerely for your accusation of sexism. Honestly. It's refreshing to see debaters be on alert for sexism, although I don't think I'm being sexist in this case. However, I'll bear that criticism in mind just in case.



Look through the photos of debaters sometime. Tally the bodies of white people against the bodies of people of color (Latin@, black, First Nation, etc. all separately of course). There is a disproportionate number of white people in regard to the United States and the common European countries on this website. Let alone the Congo or Peru.

Again, you're taking statistics and making assumptions about them. Where's the racism? I also would like to see the statistics. Are whites really over represented? Do you have proof of this?

Unfortunately, debate.org does not keep track of such statistics. The only evidence I can offer is the fact that there are practically no profile pictures of black or Latin@ or First Nation persons or any other persons of color.

Not many people have their avatars as pictures of themselves...moreover I still don't take this as proof of racism. Even if the site was 95% white, until it's proven that the disparity exists due to racism I reject the criticism. I've seen very very little racism on the site.

As it stands I'm fairly certain asians are over represented on this site although I wouldn't bet on it.

I can also give examples of many many ridiculous or subtle examples of racism on the site, although of course, I can hardly go through every post and analyze the data of this website vs. others. I think, however, of the data that are available the picture is pretty clear.

I would like to see some examples, though. I'm sure there's racism on DDO just as there is everywhere. I just don't think it's nearly as prolific as you say it is


The explicit anti-minority comments I've kept track of (a small fraction) I'll send to you if you remind me. Thanks again!

I would like to see that list.

Is racism highly prevalent in America? http://www.debate.org...
". Few are "truly" racist."jifpop09
"Largely because the liberal media and all of the infamous SJWs keep it going so they can use it as a reason to be crazy and get attention. "miles-pro-libertate
"While racist whites remain, the majority of racism seems to be anti-white. "conservativelogic
"Racist in the U.S. Isn't common, it was over half a century ago".Angry African Americans rioting doesn't show racism it was anger at the system (plus there were also whites rioting), and the way of the 50's"is long gone "Actionsspeak
""60 years ago it was the whites who held this title [of being racist], now it has moved on to the blacks. I"and am tired of hearing about riots instigated by actual racists, and as of recent the ones who have been instigating these riots have been prominently either Hispanic or black. "labarum.
"[Black people] were not angry at the systems though, I did not see any signs reading down with the judicial branch, I do not hear them yelling " the supreme court is corrupt!" I hear them yell " crazy a*s cr*ckerz!" they were angry over race. --labarum
"Now of days, Whites, Asians, continental Indians, and even pacific islanders do not start riots when ever someone of their skin color loses a case to a person of different color. The only races that do are the black, and Hispanic. "labarum
"With a poverty rate of 28.1%, you would think that blacks would be protesting. Yet, they overwhelmingly supported the incumbent president in 2012. If Bush was in office, I imagine Sharpton would be preparing a march on Washington. Yet, blacks continue to support president Obama. What has he done for them, besides greatly increasing the percent who live on welfare? Not much. It seems to me that the black community only supports Obama because he is half-black. -- conservativelogic

This is a tiny fraction. I'll send more via message.
Wylted
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9/25/2014 9:15:55 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
In no way does a rape battle actually imply support for acts of rape. I am actually opposed to rape. However, the debate is harmless. I'm on break at work, but I'll give a more in depth reply later.
RevL8ion
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9/25/2014 9:25:31 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 9:15:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
In no way does a rape battle actually imply support for acts of rape. I am actually opposed to rape. However, the debate is harmless. I'm on break at work, but I'll give a more in depth reply later.

-_________-
You said "Here's one of my favorite rape stories."
Check out my DDO FanFic! http://www.debate.org...

"Revelation is a tyrannical despot, not 13 years old." -max.wallace

"hehehehe...ahahaha....wahaha...AHHHHHHHHHHHAHA....pant...pant...pant...""...that's like sex for you, isn't it?" RevL8ion on DDO and FlyingForever on Skype

"Just remember that Yama is more powerful than you, little mortal." -Yama

"XD I like you, Rev. Maybe I won't kill you off right away." -Endark
Wylted
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9/25/2014 9:28:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 9:25:31 PM, RevL8ion wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:15:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
In no way does a rape battle actually imply support for acts of rape. I am actually opposed to rape. However, the debate is harmless. I'm on break at work, but I'll give a more in depth reply later.

-_________-
You said "Here's one of my favorite rape stories."

How exactly is that harmful?
Zaradi
Posts: 14,001
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9/25/2014 9:28:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
If this is really the most important thing to b*tch about on the site, we need better things to do with our lives.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
kbub
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9/25/2014 9:38:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 9:28:57 PM, Zaradi wrote:
If this is really the most important thing to b*tch about on the site, we need better things to do with our lives.

My gender has nothing to do with my presenting valid critiques of DDO. And yes, I rather do think defending the dignity of rape survivors is worth our time, but you are welcome to return to your "BEGINNERS MAFIA" and your "Pro is not going to win this debate" debate if you find them more important. No one is keeping you here.

Honestly, I resent your use of the word b*tch, unless you mean butch. I do not think you mean to evoke the history of legal, social, and economic domination of women that that term implies, nor do mean to suggest that women ought to be on all fours like a dog, as the term implies. I think you mean something nicer, and less sexist. However, if that is true, then I suggest you use more appropriate language lest I confuse you for the others--the bigoted ones.
Zaradi
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9/25/2014 9:46:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 9:38:32 PM, kbub wrote:

When was the last time you had a vacation? Or had time off of work/school?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
kbub
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9/25/2014 10:08:46 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:27:51 PM, whiteflame wrote:
I know you're upset with the situation, kbub, but these accusations you're throwing at every voter on that debate are taking it a little far. I can't speak for everyone, but in my case, my vote is not an expression of my views on rape, nor does it treat Wylted's choice of topic and the examples used to support his position as reasonable. I made it quite clear in my vote that YaHey's usage of insults in this debate in no way warranted what should have been an obvious conduct point for him. His "arguments" were, at best, pseudo critiques of the topic without the necessary reasoning to afford him a vote. YaHey basically used the debate as an outlet to express his hatred of the topic, and while I can sympathize with him, that is not reason enough to afford him a vote.

If your point is that my vote and others should have included some explicit condemnation of Wylted and the debate as a whole, I don't think it's my place as a voter to inject my emotional sentiments into my decision. As a member of DDO, I found the topic repugnant and the examples excruciating, but I don't have to express those views in my decision, nor does my decision reflect my views, something I've made great efforts to distance myself from in judging debates. I'll let the others speak for themselves if they so wish, but personally, I take issue with the view that my vote somehow indicates my willingness to tolerate rape in general.

I think I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think you can circumvent the fact that you voted that Wylted's rape stories were the "best."

Already, you're mischaracterizing my vote. If I vote for someone in a live debate on topicality, my vote doesn't represent a vote for their case being the better of the two. If I vote against someone as a result of their opponent getting up, saying they're insulted by the opposing case, and sitting down, I am not supporting their opponent's case in the process. I'm making a decision before I ever look at the substance of the cases themselves, on the basis of whether both debaters have fulfilled their burdens. Wylted, at least to some extent, attempted to meet his burden. YaHey didn't even try to do so, nor did he establish a separate burden than he must meet. Lacking that, YaHey loses based on technical issues, not on the basis that Wylted established that his "rape stories where the 'best.'"

Nor do I think you can you were justified by giving a conduct point for his making debate.org a hostile place for victims of sexual violence.

I think I"m justified in giving conduct points based on personal attacks as well. YaHey made it quite clear that that's what he wanted to spend a great deal of his time doing. You think I'd be justified in ignoring his behavior on the basis that Wylted was being hostile to a number of people beyond the debate. I think I'd be more justified, within the confines of the debate, to afford that point to Wylted, as the first thing I'm concerned with in a debate is how the debaters treat each other. I decided not to do so on the basis that Wylted conducted himself poorly by creating the topic and endeavoring to support it as he did. In both cases, they are guilty of conduct violations in my estimation, and I chose not to weigh them against one another. Like it or not, debate isn't just about whether you personally feel insulted by someone's argument.

You have a right to your vote. You also have a right to be displeased by insults. I know I often am. But focusing on the insults masks whether or not they are legitimate, in the same way focusing on only acts of civil disobedience ignores their original purpose.

If I were in YaHey's shoes, I'd have done the exact same thing. I'd have been sarcastic, because rape isn't funny. I'd have insulted the instigator, because they did something truly worthy of insulting. I'd have made a fuss.

And I imagine you would have made efforts to run a full-fledged Kritik as well, as you have before. You likely would have gotten my vote in doing so, though your insults would have similarly lost you the conduct point. YaHey failed to provide any analysis on why he should win the debate on any level, and as such, I'm forced to go with the only argument that's on topic, no matter how deplorable that topic may be.

As for my vote, it says that no rape is the best. YaHey provided no rape.

Please. He did not present rape as a couterplan, and if he had, it still would have had to come in the form of a Kritik, since it is, at best, slightly off topic. He failed to do that. You're a technical debater, I'm surprised at your willingness to overlook the obvious deficits in his arguments for the sake of emotional appeal.

Furthermore, what YaHey says about this entire project is on the money. By focusing on YaHeys insult merely in the fact that it is an insult, one ignores the -content- of that insult.

They're personal attacks. It doesn't matter if you feel they're accurately applied. He directly impugned Wylted's character, not solely the case itself. That's a problem from my perspective.

In my opinion, the instigator has been far more insulting--insulting to everyone who has suffered from sexual violence. I will not allow that conduct to go

If you want to weigh that conduct violation higher, that's your choice. It is not mine, and I've already explained why in great detail.

After re-reading your RFD, as well as your explanation, I realized I was wrong to characterize your vote that way. It was fair, reasoned, and did not seem to condone Wylted in any way.

I sincerely apologize for misrepresenting both you an your vote in this way. I hope you can forgive me. Thanks for being so patient with me while I ranted.
RevL8ion
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9/25/2014 10:10:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 9:28:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:25:31 PM, RevL8ion wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:15:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
In no way does a rape battle actually imply support for acts of rape. I am actually opposed to rape. However, the debate is harmless. I'm on break at work, but I'll give a more in depth reply later.

-_________-
You said "Here's one of my favorite rape stories."

How exactly is that harmful?

I didn't say it was harmful. Why would you say that if you are "actually opposed to rape?"
Check out my DDO FanFic! http://www.debate.org...

"Revelation is a tyrannical despot, not 13 years old." -max.wallace

"hehehehe...ahahaha....wahaha...AHHHHHHHHHHHAHA....pant...pant...pant...""...that's like sex for you, isn't it?" RevL8ion on DDO and FlyingForever on Skype

"Just remember that Yama is more powerful than you, little mortal." -Yama

"XD I like you, Rev. Maybe I won't kill you off right away." -Endark
Wylted
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9/25/2014 10:12:47 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 10:10:45 PM, RevL8ion wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:28:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:25:31 PM, RevL8ion wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:15:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
In no way does a rape battle actually imply support for acts of rape. I am actually opposed to rape. However, the debate is harmless. I'm on break at work, but I'll give a more in depth reply later.

-_________-
You said "Here's one of my favorite rape stories."

How exactly is that harmful?

I didn't say it was harmful. Why would you say that if you are "actually opposed to rape?"

Because I found it entertaining and think it neither contributes to rape or stops rape. It's basically a null action.
kbub
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9/25/2014 10:13:14 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 10:10:45 PM, RevL8ion wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:28:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:25:31 PM, RevL8ion wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:15:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
In no way does a rape battle actually imply support for acts of rape. I am actually opposed to rape. However, the debate is harmless. I'm on break at work, but I'll give a more in depth reply later.

-_________-
You said "Here's one of my favorite rape stories."

How exactly is that harmful?

I didn't say it was harmful. Why would you say that if you are "actually opposed to rape?"

But it is harmful...
RevL8ion
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9/25/2014 10:13:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 10:12:47 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/25/2014 10:10:45 PM, RevL8ion wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:28:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:25:31 PM, RevL8ion wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:15:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
In no way does a rape battle actually imply support for acts of rape. I am actually opposed to rape. However, the debate is harmless. I'm on break at work, but I'll give a more in depth reply later.

-_________-
You said "Here's one of my favorite rape stories."

How exactly is that harmful?

I didn't say it was harmful. Why would you say that if you are "actually opposed to rape?"

Because I found it entertaining and think it neither contributes to rape or stops rape. It's basically a null action.

You find something that you're opposed to entertaining. I don't even...
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RevL8ion
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9/25/2014 10:14:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/25/2014 10:13:14 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 10:10:45 PM, RevL8ion wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:28:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:25:31 PM, RevL8ion wrote:
At 9/25/2014 9:15:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
In no way does a rape battle actually imply support for acts of rape. I am actually opposed to rape. However, the debate is harmless. I'm on break at work, but I'll give a more in depth reply later.

-_________-
You said "Here's one of my favorite rape stories."

How exactly is that harmful?

I didn't say it was harmful. Why would you say that if you are "actually opposed to rape?"

But it is harmful...

Not really. Wylted's just bringing up the subject of something harmful done to others. Not many people were harmed morally by this debate; they just laughed it off.
Check out my DDO FanFic! http://www.debate.org...

"Revelation is a tyrannical despot, not 13 years old." -max.wallace

"hehehehe...ahahaha....wahaha...AHHHHHHHHHHHAHA....pant...pant...pant...""...that's like sex for you, isn't it?" RevL8ion on DDO and FlyingForever on Skype

"Just remember that Yama is more powerful than you, little mortal." -Yama

"XD I like you, Rev. Maybe I won't kill you off right away." -Endark

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