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Beginner Series Proposal

Vaarka
Posts: 13,072
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1/1/2018 9:26:02 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Following some of the topics mentioned in the Tough Questions video last week (http://www.debate.org...), I've been discussing with a few members (I'll let them reveal themselves if they so wish) the idea of making a few changes to the Beginner Series.

Please keep in mind that these discussions of change occurred around 2am for me, so my memory of them may be a little crooked.

THANK YOU TO EM FOR REMINDING ME THAT THE WORD ADVISOR EXISTS. I COULDN'T REMEMBER IT AND IT WAS DRIVING ME CRAZY (http://www.debate.org...)

Here is how the current series plays out:
- Game one is based on the Matrix-6 system (linked in all of the first games of a series). There are nine players (6-7 newer players, 2-3 experienced players (ringers)). The game is mostly vanilla, with 1-3 roles that could end up in the game depending on the column used in the set-up.
- Game two is a themed game with more roles, meant for an experience that has more exposure as to what games on DDO are usually like. They have a (usually simple) theme that they can figure out, more roles, and (hopefully) more fun. This game is made specifically by the mod, and is supposed to go by a few experienced players not in the game to make sure it is balanced.

All the games are as balanced as I can get them (game one is balanced, game two is more difficult, but usually fairly balanced). All the affiliations, roles, and characters are given to players randomly.

However, after discussion on how the current series works, we came to a few conclusions:
1. New players still don't always come out knowing what they're doing, or having really learned much.
2. The ringers, while supposed to teach the new players, still have to play to their wincon. As such, a ringer who is mafia might deceive a new player in order to win. Of course, this is part of the game, but it can leave new players with the wrong idea of how to play.

So here was a proposed change: Advisors. These are members who sign up for the role, and are assigned to a new player purely to help them learn the game and become better. They are not players themselves, just instructors. This removes the hassle of having to both teach and play at the same time.

Yes, this idea has been used in the past. There has been much discussion over how it would work, but in most cases, there were errors. Some that were found included:
1. Not enough members - DDO is obviously nowhere near the activity level that it once was. As such, there is not an overly active mafia community. This would often lead to Advisors having to help more than one new player at a time.
2. Bias - The Advisors would usually be helping more than one player at a time, as stated above. This could lead to bias, as an Advisor helping two townies would know that one or the other is town, and could direct the new player's actions in such a manner. Even if the player is one that usually does not show bias, it's more of an unconscious action, and always a possible factor.
3. Inactivity - Sometimes, an Advisor would go inactive before the series was over, or not even show up at all.

So here were the proposed changes to try and counter that:
1. One Advisor per new player - This seems to do nothing to counter #1, since it's been addressed that activity is low. However, this is mostly possible due to the fact that, at most, we usually only get 1-3 new players per series. This would deal with the fact that there aren't many members who could take the role, since we wouldn't need many to begin with. This also deals with bias, as an Advisor only knows the affiliation of the player he is working with (in the case that the Advisor is helping a new player who is mafia, then he would also know his partner, obviously, and could help them both). This could also help combat inactivity, as the Advisor only needs to help one player.
2. Randomly assigned Advisors - To keep Advisor psych and Mod psych out of the question, the Advisors would be assigned randomly. As such, if there is more than one new player, then we will need at least three Advisors. THE PLAYERS CANNOT MAKE PUBLIC WHO THEIR ADVISOR IS.
3. *[Will be discussed below]

Some other proposed changes that are up for discussion:
Game one, instead of necessarily relying on the Matrix-6 system, could instead be a game of nothing but vanillas and goons. Still 7 town and 2 mafia, but instead of there being roles, there are 7 vanillas and 2 goons. Game two, however, will remain a themed game with roles.

*Originally, the discussion had the idea that the Ringers would take the position of Advisor. This would leave the game a 6-7 player game. The idea was also passed around that the Ringers could join the game for game two, making it a nine player game.
However, I also proposed the idea that the Ringers keep their roles, and we have separate members take the role of Advisor. This way, the Ringers are still in the game as an example of how to play the game, and the number of players (nine) remains the same. This would be the layout through the entirety of the series.

What are the thoughts of the community? I want to try some of these ideas in the next series, so I'm hoping to hear some feedback. If you have questions, don't be afraid to ask.

tl;dr - We're trying to bring advisors back into the beginner series. Thoughts?
Beginner Series Mafia Mod. PM if interested***
-
"I bet you're thinking right now 'haha I'm a genius'. well you're not" - Valkrin

"You're too young to be so wise, mate. Tone it down a little." - Devilry

*puffs bubble pipe*
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 25,031
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1/1/2018 9:50:40 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
So, basically a silent hydra partner?
Or can the advisor also post?

If the advisor cannot post, this should be a good idea. This would only be needed for the newest of the new players, and given how the signups tend to be, it is usually only 1-3 players that would need this.

I would further suggest that advisers are kept secret from the other players, as this may influence decisions by other players unduly, thus defeating the purpose of the new players playing (i.e. the best advisor is NK'd NP1, so the noob cannot play)

Also, I would suggest that players, upon sign ups, ask for an advisor, and one not be thrust upon them.
At least the noble sheep provides us warm sweaters. All your hides would provide are coward pants. - Dick Solomon

"I call albatross!" - seventhprofessor
RocketEngineer
Posts: 869
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1/1/2018 9:50:46 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 1/1/2018 9:26:02 PM, Vaarka wrote:
tl;dr - We're trying to bring advisors back into the beginner series. Thoughts?

Seems like a good idea to me
Vaarka
Posts: 13,072
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1/2/2018 1:27:18 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 1/1/2018 9:50:40 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
So, basically a silent hydra partner?
Or can the advisor also post?
The advisor cannot post. They may only speak to the player they are advising via designated PM

If the advisor cannot post, this should be a good idea. This would only be needed for the newest of the new players, and given how the signups tend to be, it is usually only 1-3 players that would need this.

I would further suggest that advisers are kept secret from the other players, as this may influence decisions by other players unduly, thus defeating the purpose of the new players playing (i.e. the best advisor is NK'd NP1, so the noob cannot play)

Also, I would suggest that players, upon sign ups, ask for an advisor, and one not be thrust upon them.

Thanks for the input, you make a good point. I might have it as an option, saying that players may have one if one is available, and members who wish to advise should PM me privately.
Beginner Series Mafia Mod. PM if interested***
-
"I bet you're thinking right now 'haha I'm a genius'. well you're not" - Valkrin

"You're too young to be so wise, mate. Tone it down a little." - Devilry

*puffs bubble pipe*
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 4,513
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1/2/2018 2:02:37 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 1/2/2018 1:27:18 AM, Vaarka wrote:

I strongly agree with khaos (what else is new?) That even for very new players such an advisor role should be optional.
Reporting a scumbag to the mods of DDO:

https://youtu.be...

Peace is good, war is bad. "Peace at any price", however... that way of thinking is simply evil.
Vaarka
Posts: 13,072
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1/2/2018 2:51:24 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 1/2/2018 2:02:37 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
At 1/2/2018 1:27:18 AM, Vaarka wrote:

I strongly agree with khaos (what else is new?) That even for very new players such an advisor role should be optional.

I can see why it would be a good idea. Some new players don't want it, and some don't even really need it. Probably good to make it optional so that, if they want one, it's there.

Assuming people are actually willing to take on the job...
Beginner Series Mafia Mod. PM if interested***
-
"I bet you're thinking right now 'haha I'm a genius'. well you're not" - Valkrin

"You're too young to be so wise, mate. Tone it down a little." - Devilry

*puffs bubble pipe*
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 4,513
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1/2/2018 3:45:09 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 1/2/2018 2:51:24 AM, Vaarka wrote:

Assuming people are actually willing to take on the job...

The opportunity to play mafia through someone else so that you can suggest insanely high risk high reward strategies and be in a position to take all the credit if it works out and shift all the blame on to some random noob if it doesn't? Yeah, what kind of douchebag would ever want to do that?

Wait...

/IN! SIGN ME UP!
Reporting a scumbag to the mods of DDO:

https://youtu.be...

Peace is good, war is bad. "Peace at any price", however... that way of thinking is simply evil.
ThinkBig
Posts: 2,214
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1/6/2018 3:38:58 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
I think this is a really good idea. On mafiauniverse I played a hydra game like that
https://www.mafiauniverse.com...

Mentors will not post in the game thread, but instead will post in provided private threads with their mentees. Mentees (the players) must post in both the game thread and the provided private threads with their mentors.

Something like this I think would be really good feature to add.

Though I think there should still be at least one knowledgeable player in the game to help keep the game moving.
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Vaarka
Posts: 13,072
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1/6/2018 5:11:31 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 1/6/2018 3:38:58 AM, ThinkBig wrote:
I think this is a really good idea. On mafiauniverse I played a hydra game like that
https://www.mafiauniverse.com...

Mentors will not post in the game thread, but instead will post in provided private threads with their mentees. Mentees (the players) must post in both the game thread and the provided private threads with their mentors.

Something like this I think would be really good feature to add.

Though I think there should still be at least one knowledgeable player in the game to help keep the game moving.
That's my hope. To keep all nine players in the game so there are still experienced players who can be an example of how to play, while the new guys have the option of having additional instruction.
Beginner Series Mafia Mod. PM if interested***
-
"I bet you're thinking right now 'haha I'm a genius'. well you're not" - Valkrin

"You're too young to be so wise, mate. Tone it down a little." - Devilry

*puffs bubble pipe*