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Confederate monuments all coming down!!

FanboyMctroll
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8/16/2017 6:21:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's a great day in history when we can recognize that the confederate flags and monuments represented slavery in the past and it was a dark period in American History that America wants to absolve itself from.

I guess all the KKK and Ayrian Nation and racists will be up in arms over it, but it's 2017 now, we are all the same, racists are not tolerated and it's time to get rid of all confederate flags and monuments

https://www.theguardian.com...
Mharman
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8/28/2017 2:46:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Snowflakes don't like American history.
Rest in Peace, Lannan13. You will be missed.

"I didn't spend much time talking to Lannan, and I wish I had. He was a chill guy. Really kind, too. Not once did I ever see him get angry. Lannan and Anger were polar opposites, never coming in contact." -Mharman
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HairlessApe
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8/28/2017 11:01:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2017 2:46:32 PM, Mharman wrote:
Snowflakes don't like American history.

I agree that emotionally unstable ethno-bigots are snowflakes and they don't like American history which is why they are pretending the monuments are not about treason and white supremacy.

So are you implying that the Confederates did not lose the CW or are you implying that the CW was not fought over slavery or are you implying that the Confederate monuments are not a glorification of white supremacists or all of the above?
One could surely argue that the Buddhist tradition, taken as a whole, represents the richest source of contemplative wisdom that any civilization has produced. -Sam Harris
Mharman
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8/29/2017 1:12:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2017 11:01:28 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 8/28/2017 2:46:32 PM, Mharman wrote:
Snowflakes don't like American history.

I agree that emotionally unstable ethno-bigots are snowflakes and they don't like American history which is why they are pretending the monuments are not about treason and white supremacy.

They're not. This is honoring our brothers who we fought against in the civil war. This is a huge part of American history. Some of the people on the statues may not have been bad people, just insanely misguided. And even if they were bad people, this is still American history, and we must pay tribute to our history.
Rest in Peace, Lannan13. You will be missed.

"I didn't spend much time talking to Lannan, and I wish I had. He was a chill guy. Really kind, too. Not once did I ever see him get angry. Lannan and Anger were polar opposites, never coming in contact." -Mharman
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HairlessApe
Posts: 245
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8/29/2017 1:45:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2017 1:12:56 AM, Mharman wrote:
At 8/28/2017 11:01:28 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 8/28/2017 2:46:32 PM, Mharman wrote:
Snowflakes don't like American history.

I agree that emotionally unstable ethno-bigots are snowflakes and they don't like American history which is why they are pretending the monuments are not about treason and white supremacy.

They're not. This is honoring our brothers who we fought against in the civil war.

They were and still are traitors and white supremacists. We don't "honor" them, just like we don't "honor" the Japanese or German soldiers. We don't "honor" Santa Ana's soldiers for their part in the Alamo... how do you not understand this?

This is a huge part of American history.

Sure it is, so their story of sedition and white supremacy should be remembered in history books and museums. Not public monuments on United States, not Confederate, tax payer soil.

Some of the people on the statues may not have been bad people, just insanely misguided.

NO NO NO. They were white supremacists. You believe the ideology of white supremacy is bad, right? They were traitors and you believe treason is bad, right? They knew what they were doing and if they didn't then they were dumbasses and we don't "honor" the dumbasses of the world. All of that makes them bad.

And even if they were bad people, this is still American history, and we must pay tribute to our history.

Fine, pay tribute appropriately. Statues without the words LOSERS, BAD, TREASON, WHITE SUPREMACY etc. are not paying proper tribute. We have books and museums which is where were learn about the losing side of a war.

Considering that those men went to war in order to protect the enslavement of Black People and, since they lost, Black People are free and living in the USA and it's a poke in their eye to have monuments around glorifying and honoring their oppressors. It would be like Nazis building monuments to Hitler, Goebbels or Himmler all over Germany. You don't see monuments to the brave German soldiers around Paris do you? Why not?
One could surely argue that the Buddhist tradition, taken as a whole, represents the richest source of contemplative wisdom that any civilization has produced. -Sam Harris
Mharman
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8/29/2017 1:58:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2017 1:45:16 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 8/29/2017 1:12:56 AM, Mharman wrote:
At 8/28/2017 11:01:28 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 8/28/2017 2:46:32 PM, Mharman wrote:
Snowflakes don't like American history.

I agree that emotionally unstable ethno-bigots are snowflakes and they don't like American history which is why they are pretending the monuments are not about treason and white supremacy.

They're not. This is honoring our brothers who we fought against in the civil war.

They were and still are traitors and white supremacists. We don't "honor" them, just like we don't "honor" the Japanese or German soldiers. We don't "honor" Santa Ana's soldiers for their part in the Alamo... how do you not understand this?

Santa Ana's soldiers weren't American.

This is a huge part of American history.

Sure it is, so their story of sedition and white supremacy should be remembered in history books and museums. Not public monuments on United States, not Confederate, tax payer soil.

You can't label the whole group like that. there are many reasons other than racism as t why these men fought.

Some of the people on the statues may not have been bad people, just insanely misguided.

NO NO NO. They were white supremacists. You believe the ideology of white supremacy is bad, right? They were traitors and you believe treason is bad, right? They knew what they were doing and if they didn't then they were dumbasses and we don't "honor" the dumbasses of the world. All of that makes them bad.

I'm sure if you confronted them with real facts at least 20% of them would change their mind.

And even if they were bad people, this is still American history, and we must pay tribute to our history.

Fine, pay tribute appropriately. Statues without the words LOSERS, BAD, TREASON, WHITE SUPREMACY etc. are not paying proper tribute.

Everybody already knows those parts.

And let me ask you this. Was there a civil war in Germany? Hitler wanted the genocide of the Jews, he was a bad person. These men in the civil war, they were not all bad people.
Rest in Peace, Lannan13. You will be missed.

"I didn't spend much time talking to Lannan, and I wish I had. He was a chill guy. Really kind, too. Not once did I ever see him get angry. Lannan and Anger were polar opposites, never coming in contact." -Mharman
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HairlessApe
Posts: 245
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9/3/2017 5:21:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2017 1:58:47 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 8/29/2017 1:45:16 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 8/29/2017 1:12:56 AM, Mharman wrote:
At 8/28/2017 11:01:28 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 8/28/2017 2:46:32 PM, Mharman wrote:
Snowflakes don't like American history.

I agree that emotionally unstable ethno-bigots are snowflakes and they don't like American history which is why they are pretending the monuments are not about treason and white supremacy.

They're not. This is honoring our brothers who we fought against in the civil war.

They were and still are traitors and white supremacists. We don't "honor" them, just like we don't "honor" the Japanese or German soldiers. We don't "honor" Santa Ana's soldiers for their part in the Alamo... how do you not understand this?

Santa Ana's soldiers weren't American.

Neither were the Confederates. They were Confederates; citizens of the CSA.

This is a huge part of American history.

Sure it is, so their story of sedition and white supremacy should be remembered in history books and museums. Not public monuments on United States, not Confederate, tax payer soil.

You can't label the whole group like that. there are many reasons other than racism as t why these men fought.

Says you. I can and did label them as such. They were on the losing end of and ideology and a resulting war over that ideology. We shouldn't honor the losers of wars of aggression against the USA, on public property.


Some of the people on the statues may not have been bad people, just insanely misguided.

NO NO NO. They were white supremacists. You believe the ideology of white supremacy is bad, right? They were traitors and you believe treason is bad, right? They knew what they were doing and if they didn't then they were dumbasses and we don't "honor" the dumbasses of the world. All of that makes them bad.

I'm sure if you confronted them with real facts at least 20% of them would change their mind.

Well, that's very charitable of you. Didn't happen though and frankly, considering the attitudes towards facts by Confederates today I'd say you're wrong.


And even if they were bad people, this is still American history, and we must pay tribute to our history.

Fine, pay tribute appropriately. Statues without the words LOSERS, BAD, TREASON, WHITE SUPREMACY etc. are not paying proper tribute.

Everybody already knows those parts.

LOL.. OBVIOUSLY NOT. It seems pretty obvious that many people need to be reminded.


And let me ask you this. Was there a civil war in Germany? Hitler wanted the genocide of the Jews, he was a bad person. These men in the civil war, they were not all bad people.

No, there wasn't a civil war because people didn't stand against Hitlers ideology with enough fervor. Too many were on board before he came out with "the ultimate solution". Regardless, German soldiers fought for an ideology and lost. The German people recognize that they were wrong and therefore didn't erect monuments to honor that ideology or those who fought to promote it. I'm sure they weren't all bad people but that isn't really the point. The point is not to honor those who fought and lost for a morally reprehensible cause. Instead we read about them and visit their history in museums dedicated to saying - this thing they fought for was wrong.
One could surely argue that the Buddhist tradition, taken as a whole, represents the richest source of contemplative wisdom that any civilization has produced. -Sam Harris
Mharman
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9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2017 5:21:59 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 8/29/2017 1:58:47 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 8/29/2017 1:45:16 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 8/29/2017 1:12:56 AM, Mharman wrote:
At 8/28/2017 11:01:28 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 8/28/2017 2:46:32 PM, Mharman wrote:
Snowflakes don't like American history.

I agree that emotionally unstable ethno-bigots are snowflakes and they don't like American history which is why they are pretending the monuments are not about treason and white supremacy.

They're not. This is honoring our brothers who we fought against in the civil war.

They were and still are traitors and white supremacists. We don't "honor" them, just like we don't "honor" the Japanese or German soldiers. We don't "honor" Santa Ana's soldiers for their part in the Alamo... how do you not understand this?

Santa Ana's soldiers weren't American.

Neither were the Confederates. They were Confederates; citizens of the CSA.

This is a huge part of American history.

Sure it is, so their story of sedition and white supremacy should be remembered in history books and museums. Not public monuments on United States, not Confederate, tax payer soil.

You can't label the whole group like that. there are many reasons other than racism as t why these men fought.

Says you. I can and did label them as such. They were on the losing end of and ideology and a resulting war over that ideology. We shouldn't honor the losers of wars of aggression against the USA, on public property.


Some of the people on the statues may not have been bad people, just insanely misguided.

NO NO NO. They were white supremacists. You believe the ideology of white supremacy is bad, right? They were traitors and you believe treason is bad, right? They knew what they were doing and if they didn't then they were dumbasses and we don't "honor" the dumbasses of the world. All of that makes them bad.

I'm sure if you confronted them with real facts at least 20% of them would change their mind.

Well, that's very charitable of you. Didn't happen though and frankly, considering the attitudes towards facts by Confederates today I'd say you're wrong.


And even if they were bad people, this is still American history, and we must pay tribute to our history.

Fine, pay tribute appropriately. Statues without the words LOSERS, BAD, TREASON, WHITE SUPREMACY etc. are not paying proper tribute.

Everybody already knows those parts.

LOL.. OBVIOUSLY NOT. It seems pretty obvious that many people need to be reminded.


And let me ask you this. Was there a civil war in Germany? Hitler wanted the genocide of the Jews, he was a bad person. These men in the civil war, they were not all bad people.

No, there wasn't a civil war because people didn't stand against Hitlers ideology with enough fervor. Too many were on board before he came out with "the ultimate solution". Regardless, German soldiers fought for an ideology and lost. The German people recognize that they were wrong and therefore didn't erect monuments to honor that ideology or those who fought to promote it. I'm sure they weren't all bad people but that isn't really the point. The point is not to honor those who fought and lost for a morally reprehensible cause. Instead we read about them and visit their history in museums dedicated to saying - this thing they fought for was wrong.

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?
Rest in Peace, Lannan13. You will be missed.

"I didn't spend much time talking to Lannan, and I wish I had. He was a chill guy. Really kind, too. Not once did I ever see him get angry. Lannan and Anger were polar opposites, never coming in contact." -Mharman
_______________________________________________________________________________________

A category 7 hurricane of spam has struck DDO. It is advised to go to the nearest nuclear bomb shelter. The outside threads have been decimated.
kevin24018
Posts: 6,891
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9/5/2017 2:28:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/3/2017 5:21:59 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 8/29/2017 1:58:47 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 8/29/2017 1:45:16 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 8/29/2017 1:12:56 AM, Mharman wrote:
At 8/28/2017 11:01:28 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 8/28/2017 2:46:32 PM, Mharman wrote:
Snowflakes don't like American history.

I agree that emotionally unstable ethno-bigots are snowflakes and they don't like American history which is why they are pretending the monuments are not about treason and white supremacy.

They're not. This is honoring our brothers who we fought against in the civil war.

They were and still are traitors and white supremacists. We don't "honor" them, just like we don't "honor" the Japanese or German soldiers. We don't "honor" Santa Ana's soldiers for their part in the Alamo... how do you not understand this?

Santa Ana's soldiers weren't American.

Neither were the Confederates. They were Confederates; citizens of the CSA.

This is a huge part of American history.

Sure it is, so their story of sedition and white supremacy should be remembered in history books and museums. Not public monuments on United States, not Confederate, tax payer soil.

You can't label the whole group like that. there are many reasons other than racism as t why these men fought.

Says you. I can and did label them as such. They were on the losing end of and ideology and a resulting war over that ideology. We shouldn't honor the losers of wars of aggression against the USA, on public property.


Some of the people on the statues may not have been bad people, just insanely misguided.

NO NO NO. They were white supremacists. You believe the ideology of white supremacy is bad, right? They were traitors and you believe treason is bad, right? They knew what they were doing and if they didn't then they were dumbasses and we don't "honor" the dumbasses of the world. All of that makes them bad.

I'm sure if you confronted them with real facts at least 20% of them would change their mind.

Well, that's very charitable of you. Didn't happen though and frankly, considering the attitudes towards facts by Confederates today I'd say you're wrong.


And even if they were bad people, this is still American history, and we must pay tribute to our history.

Fine, pay tribute appropriately. Statues without the words LOSERS, BAD, TREASON, WHITE SUPREMACY etc. are not paying proper tribute.

Everybody already knows those parts.

LOL.. OBVIOUSLY NOT. It seems pretty obvious that many people need to be reminded.


And let me ask you this. Was there a civil war in Germany? Hitler wanted the genocide of the Jews, he was a bad person. These men in the civil war, they were not all bad people.

No, there wasn't a civil war because people didn't stand against Hitlers ideology with enough fervor. Too many were on board before he came out with "the ultimate solution". Regardless, German soldiers fought for an ideology and lost. The German people recognize that they were wrong and therefore didn't erect monuments to honor that ideology or those who fought to promote it. I'm sure they weren't all bad people but that isn't really the point. The point is not to honor those who fought and lost for a morally reprehensible cause. Instead we read about them and visit their history in museums dedicated to saying - this thing they fought for was wrong.

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?

I seem to recall families sending some of their sons to the north that way no matter which side won, their family and name would live on. Back then I don't think it was much of a choice to join or not. Anyway
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HairlessApe
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9/5/2017 2:59:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM, Mharman wrote:

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?

White Supremacy was the prevailing ideology in both the North and the South. I'm sure you would agree. This is not the dispute, rather, chattel slavery being wrong is the point. That chattel slavery was wrong was known at the time.

Brothers taking up arms against Brother to protect the institution of slavery and the secession of the Southern States in order to maintain the institution of slavery is the point. They were wrong and we should not honor their fight to protect that institution.
One could surely argue that the Buddhist tradition, taken as a whole, represents the richest source of contemplative wisdom that any civilization has produced. -Sam Harris
Mharman
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9/5/2017 4:00:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/5/2017 2:59:27 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM, Mharman wrote:

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?

White Supremacy was the prevailing ideology in both the North and the South. I'm sure you would agree. This is not the dispute, rather, chattel slavery being wrong is the point. That chattel slavery was wrong was known at the time.

Brothers taking up arms against Brother to protect the institution of slavery and the secession of the Southern States in order to maintain the institution of slavery is the point. They were wrong and we should not honor their fight to protect that institution.

They were still brothers, nonetheless.
Rest in Peace, Lannan13. You will be missed.

"I didn't spend much time talking to Lannan, and I wish I had. He was a chill guy. Really kind, too. Not once did I ever see him get angry. Lannan and Anger were polar opposites, never coming in contact." -Mharman
_______________________________________________________________________________________

A category 7 hurricane of spam has struck DDO. It is advised to go to the nearest nuclear bomb shelter. The outside threads have been decimated.
HairlessApe
Posts: 245
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9/6/2017 11:29:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/5/2017 4:00:16 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/5/2017 2:59:27 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM, Mharman wrote:

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?

White Supremacy was the prevailing ideology in both the North and the South. I'm sure you would agree. This is not the dispute, rather, chattel slavery being wrong is the point. That chattel slavery was wrong was known at the time.

Brothers taking up arms against Brother to protect the institution of slavery and the secession of the Southern States in order to maintain the institution of slavery is the point. They were wrong and we should not honor their fight to protect that institution.

They were still brothers, nonetheless.

LOL... so is David Duke. Hey, Christopher Boyce and Andrew Daulton Lee were our brothers too. Should they deserve monuments?
One could surely argue that the Buddhist tradition, taken as a whole, represents the richest source of contemplative wisdom that any civilization has produced. -Sam Harris
Mharman
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9/6/2017 12:28:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/6/2017 11:29:46 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 4:00:16 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/5/2017 2:59:27 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM, Mharman wrote:

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?

White Supremacy was the prevailing ideology in both the North and the South. I'm sure you would agree. This is not the dispute, rather, chattel slavery being wrong is the point. That chattel slavery was wrong was known at the time.

Brothers taking up arms against Brother to protect the institution of slavery and the secession of the Southern States in order to maintain the institution of slavery is the point. They were wrong and we should not honor their fight to protect that institution.

They were still brothers, nonetheless.

LOL... so is David Duke. Hey, Christopher Boyce and Andrew Daulton Lee were our brothers too. Should they deserve monuments?

Not necessarily. They were individuals. The confederacy was a large group.
Rest in Peace, Lannan13. You will be missed.

"I didn't spend much time talking to Lannan, and I wish I had. He was a chill guy. Really kind, too. Not once did I ever see him get angry. Lannan and Anger were polar opposites, never coming in contact." -Mharman
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HairlessApe
Posts: 245
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9/7/2017 1:17:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/6/2017 12:28:39 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/6/2017 11:29:46 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 4:00:16 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/5/2017 2:59:27 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM, Mharman wrote:

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?

White Supremacy was the prevailing ideology in both the North and the South. I'm sure you would agree. This is not the dispute, rather, chattel slavery being wrong is the point. That chattel slavery was wrong was known at the time.

Brothers taking up arms against Brother to protect the institution of slavery and the secession of the Southern States in order to maintain the institution of slavery is the point. They were wrong and we should not honor their fight to protect that institution.

They were still brothers, nonetheless.

LOL... so is David Duke. Hey, Christopher Boyce and Andrew Daulton Lee were our brothers too. Should they deserve monuments?

Not necessarily. They were individuals. The confederacy was a large group.

General Lee's monuments are not group monuments. Shall I name some others?
One could surely argue that the Buddhist tradition, taken as a whole, represents the richest source of contemplative wisdom that any civilization has produced. -Sam Harris
Mharman
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9/7/2017 12:35:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2017 1:17:55 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/6/2017 12:28:39 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/6/2017 11:29:46 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 4:00:16 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/5/2017 2:59:27 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM, Mharman wrote:

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?

White Supremacy was the prevailing ideology in both the North and the South. I'm sure you would agree. This is not the dispute, rather, chattel slavery being wrong is the point. That chattel slavery was wrong was known at the time.

Brothers taking up arms against Brother to protect the institution of slavery and the secession of the Southern States in order to maintain the institution of slavery is the point. They were wrong and we should not honor their fight to protect that institution.

They were still brothers, nonetheless.

LOL... so is David Duke. Hey, Christopher Boyce and Andrew Daulton Lee were our brothers too. Should they deserve monuments?

Not necessarily. They were individuals. The confederacy was a large group.

General Lee's monuments are not group monuments. Shall I name some others?

lol... you have it so twisted. We honor our brothers for the fight they gave, and the blood they shed. Also, those statues are a piece of history; those who do not know it are doomed to repeat themselves.
Rest in Peace, Lannan13. You will be missed.

"I didn't spend much time talking to Lannan, and I wish I had. He was a chill guy. Really kind, too. Not once did I ever see him get angry. Lannan and Anger were polar opposites, never coming in contact." -Mharman
_______________________________________________________________________________________

A category 7 hurricane of spam has struck DDO. It is advised to go to the nearest nuclear bomb shelter. The outside threads have been decimated.
HairlessApe
Posts: 245
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9/8/2017 2:10:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2017 12:35:00 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/7/2017 1:17:55 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/6/2017 12:28:39 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/6/2017 11:29:46 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 4:00:16 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/5/2017 2:59:27 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM, Mharman wrote:

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?

White Supremacy was the prevailing ideology in both the North and the South. I'm sure you would agree. This is not the dispute, rather, chattel slavery being wrong is the point. That chattel slavery was wrong was known at the time.

Brothers taking up arms against Brother to protect the institution of slavery and the secession of the Southern States in order to maintain the institution of slavery is the point. They were wrong and we should not honor their fight to protect that institution.

They were still brothers, nonetheless.

LOL... so is David Duke. Hey, Christopher Boyce and Andrew Daulton Lee were our brothers too. Should they deserve monuments?

Not necessarily. They were individuals. The confederacy was a large group.

General Lee's monuments are not group monuments. Shall I name some others?

lol... you have it so twisted. We honor our brothers for the fight they gave, and the blood they shed. Also, those statues are a piece of history; those who do not know it are doomed to repeat themselves.

LOL... you have it so twisted. You honor white supremacists and traitors. The losers of a war of bad ideology deserves their history in books and museums under the title of LOSERS. Nothing more. Otherwise why not honor Dylann Roof or Ted Kaczynski?
One could surely argue that the Buddhist tradition, taken as a whole, represents the richest source of contemplative wisdom that any civilization has produced. -Sam Harris
Mharman
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9/8/2017 2:35:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/8/2017 2:10:14 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/7/2017 12:35:00 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/7/2017 1:17:55 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/6/2017 12:28:39 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/6/2017 11:29:46 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 4:00:16 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/5/2017 2:59:27 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM, Mharman wrote:

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?

White Supremacy was the prevailing ideology in both the North and the South. I'm sure you would agree. This is not the dispute, rather, chattel slavery being wrong is the point. That chattel slavery was wrong was known at the time.

Brothers taking up arms against Brother to protect the institution of slavery and the secession of the Southern States in order to maintain the institution of slavery is the point. They were wrong and we should not honor their fight to protect that institution.

They were still brothers, nonetheless.

LOL... so is David Duke. Hey, Christopher Boyce and Andrew Daulton Lee were our brothers too. Should they deserve monuments?

Not necessarily. They were individuals. The confederacy was a large group.

General Lee's monuments are not group monuments. Shall I name some others?

lol... you have it so twisted. We honor our brothers for the fight they gave, and the blood they shed. Also, those statues are a piece of history; those who do not know it are doomed to repeat themselves.

LOL... you have it so twisted. You honor white supremacists and traitors. The losers of a war of bad ideology deserves their history in books and museums under the title of LOSERS. Nothing more. Otherwise why not honor Dylann Roof or Ted Kaczynski?

George Washington owned slaves. Are you going to push for the removal of all statuses of him?
Rest in Peace, Lannan13. You will be missed.

"I didn't spend much time talking to Lannan, and I wish I had. He was a chill guy. Really kind, too. Not once did I ever see him get angry. Lannan and Anger were polar opposites, never coming in contact." -Mharman
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A category 7 hurricane of spam has struck DDO. It is advised to go to the nearest nuclear bomb shelter. The outside threads have been decimated.
What50
Posts: 31
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9/8/2017 3:06:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'll put some of my opinion on this. Most of the confederate statues are paying tribute to their heritage. Slavery was a big reason why they fought the Civil war but State rights was also another reason these soldiers who didn't even own slaves fought for the south. I think those statues represents soldiers fighting for what they believe is right and paying the biggest sacrifice for their belief. I may be wrong but this is my opinion.
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 6,086
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9/8/2017 5:33:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

LOL... you have it so twisted. You honor white supremacists and traitors. The losers of a war of bad ideology deserves their history in books and museums under the title of LOSERS. Nothing more. Otherwise why not honor Dylann Roof or Ted Kaczynski?

OMG Dylann Roof now there is one sick racist punk, isn't he getting the needle soon? And the Unibomber, haven't heard that name in a long time, I think he is at SuperMax locked up for life. I remember reading a quote about him that said, the only thing he misses about being free is that in jail he will forget what the outdoors was like now that he is never getting out of his cell
HairlessApe
Posts: 245
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9/9/2017 2:01:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/8/2017 2:35:58 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/8/2017 2:10:14 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/7/2017 12:35:00 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/7/2017 1:17:55 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/6/2017 12:28:39 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/6/2017 11:29:46 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 4:00:16 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/5/2017 2:59:27 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM, Mharman wrote:

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?

White Supremacy was the prevailing ideology in both the North and the South. I'm sure you would agree. This is not the dispute, rather, chattel slavery being wrong is the point. That chattel slavery was wrong was known at the time.

Brothers taking up arms against Brother to protect the institution of slavery and the secession of the Southern States in order to maintain the institution of slavery is the point. They were wrong and we should not honor their fight to protect that institution.

They were still brothers, nonetheless.

LOL... so is David Duke. Hey, Christopher Boyce and Andrew Daulton Lee were our brothers too. Should they deserve monuments?

Not necessarily. They were individuals. The confederacy was a large group.

General Lee's monuments are not group monuments. Shall I name some others?

lol... you have it so twisted. We honor our brothers for the fight they gave, and the blood they shed. Also, those statues are a piece of history; those who do not know it are doomed to repeat themselves.

LOL... you have it so twisted. You honor white supremacists and traitors. The losers of a war of bad ideology deserves their history in books and museums under the title of LOSERS. Nothing more. Otherwise why not honor Dylann Roof or Ted Kaczynski?

George Washington owned slaves. Are you going to push for the removal of all statuses of him?

Move the goal post much? George Washington recognized his hypocrisy and released them long before the CW. The biggest difference is that we don't honor Washington for his stance on slavery but rather, for his part in creating this Nation. General Lee, along with all the other Confederates, are known ONLY for their part in the CW.
One could surely argue that the Buddhist tradition, taken as a whole, represents the richest source of contemplative wisdom that any civilization has produced. -Sam Harris
HairlessApe
Posts: 245
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9/9/2017 2:06:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/8/2017 3:06:43 PM, What50 wrote:
I'll put some of my opinion on this. Most of the confederate statues are paying tribute to their heritage. Slavery was a big reason why they fought the Civil war but State rights was also another reason these soldiers who didn't even own slaves fought for the south. I think those statues represents soldiers fighting for what they believe is right and paying the biggest sacrifice for their belief. I may be wrong but this is my opinion.

The monuments are mostly honoring the leaders of the Confederacy; Military officers and politicians. They surely knew what they were fighting for. States Rights; the right to continue to profit from slave labor. Nothing more. Without slavery there would be no tax on their goods, so all roads lead to slavery for the Confederacy. You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.
One could surely argue that the Buddhist tradition, taken as a whole, represents the richest source of contemplative wisdom that any civilization has produced. -Sam Harris
Mharman
Posts: 5,030
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9/10/2017 1:35:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/9/2017 2:01:09 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/8/2017 2:35:58 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/8/2017 2:10:14 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/7/2017 12:35:00 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/7/2017 1:17:55 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/6/2017 12:28:39 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/6/2017 11:29:46 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 4:00:16 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/5/2017 2:59:27 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM, Mharman wrote:

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?

White Supremacy was the prevailing ideology in both the North and the South. I'm sure you would agree. This is not the dispute, rather, chattel slavery being wrong is the point. That chattel slavery was wrong was known at the time.

Brothers taking up arms against Brother to protect the institution of slavery and the secession of the Southern States in order to maintain the institution of slavery is the point. They were wrong and we should not honor their fight to protect that institution.

They were still brothers, nonetheless.

LOL... so is David Duke. Hey, Christopher Boyce and Andrew Daulton Lee were our brothers too. Should they deserve monuments?

Not necessarily. They were individuals. The confederacy was a large group.

General Lee's monuments are not group monuments. Shall I name some others?

lol... you have it so twisted. We honor our brothers for the fight they gave, and the blood they shed. Also, those statues are a piece of history; those who do not know it are doomed to repeat themselves.

LOL... you have it so twisted. You honor white supremacists and traitors. The losers of a war of bad ideology deserves their history in books and museums under the title of LOSERS. Nothing more. Otherwise why not honor Dylann Roof or Ted Kaczynski?

George Washington owned slaves. Are you going to push for the removal of all statuses of him?

Move the goal post much? George Washington recognized his hypocrisy and released them long before the CW. The biggest difference is that we don't honor Washington for his stance on slavery but rather, for his part in creating this Nation. General Lee, along with all the other Confederates, are known ONLY for their part in the CW.

History lesson: Lee didn't like slavery; however, he just couldn't bear fighting against his home state of Virginia.
Rest in Peace, Lannan13. You will be missed.

"I didn't spend much time talking to Lannan, and I wish I had. He was a chill guy. Really kind, too. Not once did I ever see him get angry. Lannan and Anger were polar opposites, never coming in contact." -Mharman
_______________________________________________________________________________________

A category 7 hurricane of spam has struck DDO. It is advised to go to the nearest nuclear bomb shelter. The outside threads have been decimated.
HairlessApe
Posts: 245
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9/10/2017 5:03:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2017 1:35:35 AM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/9/2017 2:01:09 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/8/2017 2:35:58 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/8/2017 2:10:14 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/7/2017 12:35:00 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/7/2017 1:17:55 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/6/2017 12:28:39 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/6/2017 11:29:46 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 4:00:16 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/5/2017 2:59:27 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM, Mharman wrote:

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?

White Supremacy was the prevailing ideology in both the North and the South. I'm sure you would agree. This is not the dispute, rather, chattel slavery being wrong is the point. That chattel slavery was wrong was known at the time.

Brothers taking up arms against Brother to protect the institution of slavery and the secession of the Southern States in order to maintain the institution of slavery is the point. They were wrong and we should not honor their fight to protect that institution.

They were still brothers, nonetheless.

LOL... so is David Duke. Hey, Christopher Boyce and Andrew Daulton Lee were our brothers too. Should they deserve monuments?

Not necessarily. They were individuals. The confederacy was a large group.

General Lee's monuments are not group monuments. Shall I name some others?

lol... you have it so twisted. We honor our brothers for the fight they gave, and the blood they shed. Also, those statues are a piece of history; those who do not know it are doomed to repeat themselves.

LOL... you have it so twisted. You honor white supremacists and traitors. The losers of a war of bad ideology deserves their history in books and museums under the title of LOSERS. Nothing more. Otherwise why not honor Dylann Roof or Ted Kaczynski?

George Washington owned slaves. Are you going to push for the removal of all statuses of him?

Move the goal post much? George Washington recognized his hypocrisy and released them long before the CW. The biggest difference is that we don't honor Washington for his stance on slavery but rather, for his part in creating this Nation. General Lee, along with all the other Confederates, are known ONLY for their part in the CW.

History lesson: Lee didn't like slavery; however, he just couldn't bear fighting against his home state of Virginia.

LOL... and this is laudable? No. Nice try but you've now taken the position that he knows slavery is immoral and yet willingly chose tribalism over morality. Period.
"6 Generals Who Fought Against their Home State in the Civil War"
http://www.history.com...
One could surely argue that the Buddhist tradition, taken as a whole, represents the richest source of contemplative wisdom that any civilization has produced. -Sam Harris
Mharman
Posts: 5,030
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9/10/2017 7:48:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2017 5:03:35 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/10/2017 1:35:35 AM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/9/2017 2:01:09 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/8/2017 2:35:58 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/8/2017 2:10:14 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/7/2017 12:35:00 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/7/2017 1:17:55 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/6/2017 12:28:39 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/6/2017 11:29:46 AM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 4:00:16 PM, Mharman wrote:
At 9/5/2017 2:59:27 PM, HairlessApe wrote:
At 9/5/2017 12:36:15 PM, Mharman wrote:

This is American history here... brother vs. brother. Do you remember how Ulysses S. Grant completely let the entire Confederacy completely off the hook?

White Supremacy was the prevailing ideology in both the North and the South. I'm sure you would agree. This is not the dispute, rather, chattel slavery being wrong is the point. That chattel slavery was wrong was known at the time.

Brothers taking up arms against Brother to protect the institution of slavery and the secession of the Southern States in order to maintain the institution of slavery is the point. They were wrong and we should not honor their fight to protect that institution.

They were still brothers, nonetheless.

LOL... so is David Duke. Hey, Christopher Boyce and Andrew Daulton Lee were our brothers too. Should they deserve monuments?

Not necessarily. They were individuals. The confederacy was a large group.

General Lee's monuments are not group monuments. Shall I name some others?

lol... you have it so twisted. We honor our brothers for the fight they gave, and the blood they shed. Also, those statues are a piece of history; those who do not know it are doomed to repeat themselves.

LOL... you have it so twisted. You honor white supremacists and traitors. The losers of a war of bad ideology deserves their history in books and museums under the title of LOSERS. Nothing more. Otherwise why not honor Dylann Roof or Ted Kaczynski?

George Washington owned slaves. Are you going to push for the removal of all statuses of him?

Move the goal post much? George Washington recognized his hypocrisy and released them long before the CW. The biggest difference is that we don't honor Washington for his stance on slavery but rather, for his part in creating this Nation. General Lee, along with all the other Confederates, are known ONLY for their part in the CW.

History lesson: Lee didn't like slavery; however, he just couldn't bear fighting against his home state of Virginia.

LOL... and this is laudable? No. Nice try but you've now taken the position that he knows slavery is immoral and yet willingly chose tribalism over morality. Period.
"6 Generals Who Fought Against their Home State in the Civil War"
http://www.history.com...

Some people feel loyal to their homes than to the government.
Rest in Peace, Lannan13. You will be missed.

"I didn't spend much time talking to Lannan, and I wish I had. He was a chill guy. Really kind, too. Not once did I ever see him get angry. Lannan and Anger were polar opposites, never coming in contact." -Mharman
_______________________________________________________________________________________

A category 7 hurricane of spam has struck DDO. It is advised to go to the nearest nuclear bomb shelter. The outside threads have been decimated.
hellofellowhumans
Posts: 2
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9/17/2017 2:42:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't like it. My great, great, great grandfather was a confederate medic. He wasn't a white supremacist! He just wanted to save lives and help others. He was a genius doctor! And you're telling me MY family history doesn't exist nor matter? Confederacy wasn't just about fighting for slavery, it was fighting for FREEDOM. Yes, I am not racist nor am I saying that slavery is alright, but they were fighting for their way of life and freedom to make decisions. And the people who put their life on the line for that right should be remembered not as, white supremacists, but a brave souls who fought for what they were told their entire lives to fight for.
-afellowhuman
HairlessApe
Posts: 245
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9/18/2017 12:22:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2017 2:42:03 PM, hellofellowhumans wrote:
I don't like it. My great, great, great grandfather was a confederate medic. He wasn't a white supremacist! He just wanted to save lives and help others. He was a genius doctor! And you're telling me MY family history doesn't exist nor matter? Confederacy wasn't just about fighting for slavery, it was fighting for FREEDOM. Yes, I am not racist nor am I saying that slavery is alright, but they were fighting for their way of life and freedom to make decisions. And the people who put their life on the line for that right should be remembered not as, white supremacists, but a brave souls who fought for what they were told their entire lives to fight for.

Were the Nazis just brave souls fighting for what they were told to fight for? Should there be monuments of Himmler/Hitler/Goebbels/Rommel/Raeder, et al.?

I'm sure your GGGGrandfather was a White Supremacists considering that it was the ideology of the day for both the North and the South. Everyone who was White was a WS simply because Black people were considered a sub-human race. Just as, before Darwin everyone believed in a deity because there was no other explanation available. Now we know better on both fronts.

What they were fighting for was indeed their way of life and States Rights, not FREEDOM, because they weren't for FREEDOM for the slaves. Right?
So what was the impetus for wanting to cede from the Union and go to war with the North? SLAVERY. They wanted the "Right" to continue to profit from the free labor of the Slaves. Their ideology was morally wrong and therefore we should not celebrate their "struggle" to maintain slavery but rather, remember the cost of pursuing morally bereft ideologies into war. Remember them in history books and museums but not public monuments honoring Confederates in the UNITED STATES of AMERICA.
One could surely argue that the Buddhist tradition, taken as a whole, represents the richest source of contemplative wisdom that any civilization has produced. -Sam Harris
xus00HAY
Posts: 2,268
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9/25/2017 4:07:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you could go back in time and ask the confederate soldiers what they were fighting for, I bet you $1000 that none of them would answer "slavery".
Although slavery did bring about the conflict that would start a war, slavery was also the reason that Black people who were in Africa were in America. If you asked a few rednecks if they thought slavery was worth fighting for, they would say something about if slavery did not exist, then Black America would not exist today.
Some day some conservative will write a book about the British guys who had the idea that slavery was what the colonies needed for a source of labor. Maybe there will be some of those liberal peckerheads will say they did something very bad, while at the same time other liberals will be saying we should thank those guys for the ethnic diversity we now have in the U.S.
,So you want to all go to Stone Mountain and cut off the heads of General Lee and Stonewall Jackson ? ( that are carved into the South's version of Mount Rushmore)
FanboyMctroll
Posts: 6,086
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9/25/2017 4:26:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2017 4:07:02 PM, xus00HAY wrote:
If you could go back in time and ask the confederate soldiers what they were fighting for, I bet you $1000 that none of them would answer "slavery".
Although slavery did bring about the conflict that would start a war, slavery was also the reason that Black people who were in Africa were in America. If you asked a few rednecks if they thought slavery was worth fighting for, they would say something about if slavery did not exist, then Black America would not exist today.
Some day some conservative will write a book about the British guys who had the idea that slavery was what the colonies needed for a source of labor. Maybe there will be some of those liberal peckerheads will say they did something very bad, while at the same time other liberals will be saying we should thank those guys for the ethnic diversity we now have in the U.S.
,So you want to all go to Stone Mountain and cut off the heads of General Lee and Stonewall Jackson ? ( that are carved into the South's version of Mount Rushmore)

So if the south wasn't fighting for slavery, what were they fighting for? They are the ones who started the civil war, so what was their intention, to take over all of the Union territory? I'm asking because I don't know? I thought it was all over slavery, who's got the answer.
xus00HAY
Posts: 2,268
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9/26/2017 6:14:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The abolitionists wanted to free the slaves. The plantation owners in the South believed that without slave labor the cotton industry would die. At this time cotton was making the South and America rich. Rich men in the South had this idea that since the Southern states joined the Northern states, and thus created the United States, then the Southern states could resign from this and make the lower states into their own country.
This conflict turned into a war in which the crackers believed that when Lincoln sent the U.S. Army down into their states, they were invaded by what was now another country.
xus00HAY
Posts: 2,268
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9/28/2017 9:34:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
,So , you tell me, mr. McTroll,
Thanks to the brilliant leadership of Generals like Bobby Lee, and Stonewall Jackson the Civil War was not over in a few months like the American's thought it would be.
They succeeded in defending Richmond, (their capitol) and it turned into a war of attrition in which 1 out of every 4 men in the South died.
Do you think the white supremacists want to honor those Generals?