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What are you bad at?

Syko
Posts: 393
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6/8/2016 7:47:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2016 7:41:54 AM, Wylted wrote:
No, I in fact never did describe it that way. I said gut feelings (intuition from thin slicing) are sometimes more useful than having some sort of deep chain of logical reasoning. I said gut feelings should not be ignored. You basically called gut feelings voodoo after that and claimed they should never be trusted, and gut feelings are extremely useful for mafia, given you can tell the difference between ones that come from your brain thin slicing and ones that are prejudicial.

I quote:
"I am not sure what that has to do with anything. Your subconscious mind needs to do some complex stuff just to catch a baseball, stuff your conscious mind can never do. Ignoring your gut is a bad ideal, that is not to say that always listening to it is a good ideal. That is where experience comes in. Knowing when and when not listen to your gut, but ignoring it is a huge mistake, and science does back up that the gut is often more accurate."

This is how you introduced gut feelings. You introduced them as 'your subconscious mind.' So yes, I do assume that this is your view of gut feelings. Now gut feelings can be well and good, but not in mafia. Gut feelings are not more accurate than behavioural analysis. Unfortunately there is very little research that has been undertaken here, which is what MS has been doing with bots and mathematicians.
For Mother Russia.
Wylted
Posts: 25,970
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6/8/2016 7:57:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2016 7:47:52 AM, Syko wrote:
At 6/8/2016 7:41:54 AM, Wylted wrote:
No, I in fact never did describe it that way. I said gut feelings (intuition from thin slicing) are sometimes more useful than having some sort of deep chain of logical reasoning. I said gut feelings should not be ignored. You basically called gut feelings voodoo after that and claimed they should never be trusted, and gut feelings are extremely useful for mafia, given you can tell the difference between ones that come from your brain thin slicing and ones that are prejudicial.

I quote:
"I am not sure what that has to do with anything. Your subconscious mind needs to do some complex stuff just to catch a baseball, stuff your conscious mind can never do. Ignoring your gut is a bad ideal, that is not to say that always listening to it is a good ideal. That is where experience comes in. Knowing when and when not listen to your gut, but ignoring it is a huge mistake, and science does back up that the gut is often more accurate."

This is how you introduced gut feelings. You introduced them as 'your subconscious mind.' So yes, I do assume that this is your view of gut feelings. Now gut feelings can be well and good, but not in mafia. Gut feelings are not more accurate than behavioural analysis. Unfortunately there is very little research that has been undertaken here, which is what MS has been doing with bots and mathematicians.

That is just a bare assertion. I would say that gut feelings are incredibly useful in mafia. Often you do have a lack of information and your subconscious picks up on things your conscious mind would miss. Actually spelling it out would use 10 pieces of information while the thin slicing your subconscious does for you picks up on a million different pieces of information.

Your claim that behavioral analysis is more accurate than gut is silly, besides not being true. Most of the time when somebody does spell out their analysis, it is based off of an original gut feeling or justifies a gut feeling. Many times my gut has told me somebody was scum so I went back and looked for evidence to confirm or disqualify that and have came back with solid evidence they were. Or my gut has told me they were town so I dug deeper to see if I could confirm my gut.
Syko
Posts: 393
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6/8/2016 8:05:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2016 7:57:45 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/8/2016 7:47:52 AM, Syko wrote:
At 6/8/2016 7:41:54 AM, Wylted wrote:
No, I in fact never did describe it that way. I said gut feelings (intuition from thin slicing) are sometimes more useful than having some sort of deep chain of logical reasoning. I said gut feelings should not be ignored. You basically called gut feelings voodoo after that and claimed they should never be trusted, and gut feelings are extremely useful for mafia, given you can tell the difference between ones that come from your brain thin slicing and ones that are prejudicial.

I quote:
"I am not sure what that has to do with anything. Your subconscious mind needs to do some complex stuff just to catch a baseball, stuff your conscious mind can never do. Ignoring your gut is a bad ideal, that is not to say that always listening to it is a good ideal. That is where experience comes in. Knowing when and when not listen to your gut, but ignoring it is a huge mistake, and science does back up that the gut is often more accurate."

This is how you introduced gut feelings. You introduced them as 'your subconscious mind.' So yes, I do assume that this is your view of gut feelings. Now gut feelings can be well and good, but not in mafia. Gut feelings are not more accurate than behavioural analysis. Unfortunately there is very little research that has been undertaken here, which is what MS has been doing with bots and mathematicians.

That is just a bare assertion. I would say that gut feelings are incredibly useful in mafia. Often you do have a lack of information and your subconscious picks up on things your conscious mind would miss. Actually spelling it out would use 10 pieces of information while the thin slicing your subconscious does for you picks up on a million different pieces of information.

I don't deny that gut feelings have their place. The thing is, they have way too many limitations that they are more likely to generate false positives or negatives than they are accurate conclusions. Gut feelings are subject to confirmation biases more than any other type of analysis, and it's not even a logical analysis itself. Furthermore, you've strayed from science by assuming those papers back up your belief that you can apply thin slicing to mafia. You can't. Your subconscious doesn't do any of those things you described, though I'm not saying that as an informed individual, I'm saying that as someone who knows that we know literally jack shhit about the subconscious and what it does. If it even exists...

Your claim that behavioral analysis is more accurate than gut is silly, besides not being true. Most of the time when somebody does spell out their analysis, it is based off of an original gut feeling or justifies a gut feeling. Many times my gut has told me somebody was scum so I went back and looked for evidence to confirm or disqualify that and have came back with solid evidence they were. Or my gut has told me they were town so I dug deeper to see if I could confirm my gut.
Behavioural analysis is what you do in your mind without realising it. Every human works on schemas which are expectations on how things behave. If the phenomenon matches your schema, you don't notice it or else you think it's town. If it doesn't, you notice it, it stands out and you feel uncomfortable by it. Gut feelings are not very well defined, you'll have to explain a bit more by what you mean by it, cuz currently I wouldn't even accept that gut feelings exist if I were to derive a definition from your speculation on 'subconscious' feelings etc.
For Mother Russia.
Wylted
Posts: 25,970
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6/8/2016 8:22:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago

I don't deny that gut feelings have their place. The thing is, they have way too many limitations that they are more likely to generate false positives or negatives than they are accurate conclusions. Gut feelings are subject to confirmation biases more than any other type of analysis, and it's not even a logical analysis itself. Furthermore, you've strayed from science by assuming those papers back up your belief that you can apply thin slicing to mafia. You can't. Your subconscious doesn't do any of those things you described, though I'm not saying that as an informed individual, I'm saying that as someone who knows that we know literally jack shhit about the subconscious and what it does. If it even exists...

It obviously exists lol. It is why experiments have shown that you make decisions before you even become consciously aware of making them. Plus where do you think your memory goes, you aren't continually running every fact you ever knew in your brain. They get stored until you are ready to retrieve them. It is laughable to claim the conscious mind is the only one that exists. Not to mention you don't consciously think of the complex algorithms necessary to make your legs move every time you walk.

You can also clearly apply thin slicing to mafia lol. Are you trolling me?

Your claim that behavioral analysis is more accurate than gut is silly, besides not being true. Most of the time when somebody does spell out their analysis, it is based off of an original gut feeling or justifies a gut feeling. Many times my gut has told me somebody was scum so I went back and looked for evidence to confirm or disqualify that and have came back with solid evidence they were. Or my gut has told me they were town so I dug deeper to see if I could confirm my gut.
Behavioural analysis is what you do in your mind without realising it. Every human works on schemas which are expectations on how things behave. If the phenomenon matches your schema, you don't notice it or else you think it's town. If it doesn't, you notice it, it stands out and you feel uncomfortable by it. Gut feelings are not very well defined, you'll have to explain a bit more by what you mean by it, cuz currently I wouldn't even accept that gut feelings exist if I were to derive a definition from your speculation on 'subconscious' feelings etc.

That is just stupid, sorry but it is. Gut feelings clearly exist. I feel sorry for you if they don't. Don't ever walk through a dangerous neighborhood if you can't depend on your gut to tell you when a situation or person is safe or not. I think I would be dead if gut feelings did not exist.
Syko
Posts: 393
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6/8/2016 8:30:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2016 8:22:05 AM, Wylted wrote:

It obviously exists lol. It is why experiments have shown that you make decisions before you even become consciously aware of making them. Plus where do you think your memory goes, you aren't continually running every fact you ever knew in your brain. They get stored until you are ready to retrieve them. It is laughable to claim the conscious mind is the only one that exists. Not to mention you don't consciously think of the complex algorithms necessary to make your legs move every time you walk.

So here's the thing, historically they have been going in and out of existence. Before WW2 it was common knowledge that there was a subconscious mind. During the behaviourist revolution there was no such thing as a subconscious mind. Nowadays there is a subconscious mind but it's definition changes depending on who you ask. Your memory is encoded and stored by the hippocampus in the limbic system. We know this because people who receive damage to this part of their brain lose their ability to recall episodic memories from long term memory. If you think the subconscious mind is defined, I'd challenge you to give me a definition. Furthermore, you don't use algorithms to make your legs walk. This is done by the motor cortex. The reason why you don't need to think of it is because your executive control does not need to give attention to anything in the peripheral nervous system which is not performing a complex task.

You can also clearly apply thin slicing to mafia lol. Are you trolling me?
You can mix soy sauce and orange juice with your vanilla icecream.

That is just stupid, sorry but it is. Gut feelings clearly exist. I feel sorry for you if they don't. Don't ever walk through a dangerous neighborhood if you can't depend on your gut to tell you when a situation or person is safe or not. I think I would be dead if gut feelings did not exist.
What you think are gut feelings are actually a lot of other systems that can be individually investigated. For example, the feeling of fear you get from walking down a dark alley is simply the release of cortisol to prepare your body given the expectation of danger. That's not gut feeling, that's you consciously realising danger and your physiological systems adapting to match it. Or vice versa if you don't believe in Cannon's central theory.
For Mother Russia.
Wylted
Posts: 25,970
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6/8/2016 8:47:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2016 8:30:18 AM, Syko wrote:
At 6/8/2016 8:22:05 AM, Wylted wrote:

It obviously exists lol. It is why experiments have shown that you make decisions before you even become consciously aware of making them. Plus where do you think your memory goes, you aren't continually running every fact you ever knew in your brain. They get stored until you are ready to retrieve them. It is laughable to claim the conscious mind is the only one that exists. Not to mention you don't consciously think of the complex algorithms necessary to make your legs move every time you walk.

So here's the thing, historically they have been going in and out of existence. Before WW2 it was common knowledge that there was a subconscious mind. During the behaviourist revolution there was no such thing as a subconscious mind. Nowadays there is a subconscious mind but it's definition changes depending on who you ask. Your memory is encoded and stored by the hippocampus in the limbic system. We know this because people who receive damage to this part of their brain lose their ability to recall episodic memories from long term memory. If you think the subconscious mind is defined, I'd challenge you to give me a definition. Furthermore, you don't use algorithms to make your legs walk. This is done by the motor cortex. The reason why you don't need to think of it is because your executive control does not need to give attention to anything in the peripheral nervous system which is not performing a complex task.

Subconscious mind definition: The part of the mind not working at the conscious level, but below the conscious level. The term defines itself.


You can also clearly apply thin slicing to mafia lol. Are you trolling me?
You can mix soy sauce and orange juice with your vanilla icecream.

Stupid comparison.

That is just stupid, sorry but it is. Gut feelings clearly exist. I feel sorry for you if they don't. Don't ever walk through a dangerous neighborhood if you can't depend on your gut to tell you when a situation or person is safe or not. I think I would be dead if gut feelings did not exist.
What you think are gut feelings are actually a lot of other systems that can be individually investigated. For example, the feeling of fear you get from walking down a dark alley is simply the release of cortisol to prepare your body given the expectation of danger. That's not gut feeling, that's you consciously realising danger and your physiological systems adapting to match it. Or vice versa if you don't believe in Cannon's central theory.

Your conscious mind not noticing the desperate look a person with evil intent gives you, the one who is now behind you, but you don't consciously notice he has slowed to walk as the same speed as you but you hear his steps. Some other people are in the distance which you see and their interactions tell your subconscious they are bad news and working together. This gives you the gut feeling a group of people are going to attack you, so you pull out your pepper spray, go to a well lit and well populated area. Your may not have noticed that slowing down is a sign of behavior to wait until you are in the right spot to attack, the guys in the distance who are trying too hard to look nonchalant and avoid eye contact with you and each other, a sign of a threat that your conscious mind does not pick up on but your sub conscious does and the feeling registers in the gut and tells you to put yourself in a safer position.

It's the same in mafia. You don't consciously notice that a person is speaking more carefully than when they are town, using different words, more careful thought, you may not consciously notice that they just contradicted an earlier claim about their motivation but it registers in your subconscious, you may not notice that they are always the 3rd or 4th vote on a town lynch but the first vote on a scum lynch but your subconscious picks up on it and manifests as a gut feeling.
Syko
Posts: 393
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6/8/2016 8:56:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Wylted, you're a deeply religious person evidently and I don't argue with them on matters of pseudoscience.

You've created a new definition of subconscious to explain something which science is discovering bit by bit. Just like God, you won't be able to invoke this idea once we've discovered more. All your examples I can explain in terms of current theory. Examples of stuff which I can't include the cocktail party effect, and that's about it.

You don't need to invoke non scientific ideas to explain something difficult when we already know enough about the topic to conclude that pseudoscience bullshhit like your vague definition of the subconscious is not a plausible interpretation of natural, biologically based phenomenon. It's like how christians deny evolution simply because evolution doesn't explain every last detail.

To sum my position, I cannot + will not accept mystical bullshhit that is fast being invalidated by empirical research. Most of your claims (such as memory is from the subconscious) we already know to be wrong. So the correct position is to trust science, not religion.

If you want to hold to your beliefs, then I'm not going to bash them. I'm not that sorta person.
For Mother Russia.
Nivek
Posts: 278
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6/8/2016 11:23:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't excel at rational thinking. My rather intelligent friends often find it frustrating to address to me because of my tendency to demand a more elaborate explanation, when the answer is right there, right before my eyes. I excel at picking up cooking scents though and I can estimate the use of ingredients rather accurately. So If one were to say bullsh!t their way through cooking, there's a95% chance that I'll probably pick up on it. You can't lie you way out of certain things.
Nivek
Posts: 278
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6/8/2016 11:27:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2016 3:43:30 AM, Wylted wrote:
I can't tie my shoes, match my clothes properly and am a complete idiot with mundane things like paying bills. I also have no ideal what my washer and dryer settings should be at.

I actually pictured that. Luls. You sound like one of those angry ranters on the plane tirading how he has 20/20 vision and an IQ of 179 with an annual income of 4 million. That was weird.
Wylted
Posts: 25,970
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6/8/2016 1:27:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2016 11:27:54 AM, Nivek wrote:
At 6/6/2016 3:43:30 AM, Wylted wrote:
I can't tie my shoes, match my clothes properly and am a complete idiot with mundane things like paying bills. I also have no ideal what my washer and dryer settings should be at.

I actually pictured that. Luls. You sound like one of those angry ranters on the plane tirading how he has 20/20 vision and an IQ of 179 with an annual income of 4 million. That was weird.

I have pretty good vision, but don't make that much money.
Adam_Godzilla
Posts: 2,487
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6/8/2016 3:14:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/7/2016 11:29:40 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 6/7/2016 9:35:52 PM, Adam_Godzilla wrote:
At 6/7/2016 8:42:51 PM, RevNge wrote:
Staying in touch. :P
It's... been a while.

Yeah, it has. Good to see you again Adam. :D
It's good to see you too my man. You missed Endark but he'd be glad you're back.
New episode of OUTSIDERS: http://www.debate.org...
Episode 4 - They walk among us
Nursehartley
Posts: 1
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6/11/2016 12:07:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2016 3:39:43 AM, Opsianos wrote:
On the Internet, people commonly give themselves an ego boost by boasting or showing off in something that they pride themselves for (if you never have, that's quite the humility there).

So, instead of that, this thread is to make you feel bad about yourself (hyperbole). What are your weaknesses? What is something that, again, you are bad at?

For me, it's being bad at anything in general.
I cannot do difficult math, that is math beyond basic calculations and computations, ugh! It has been the bane of my existence.
Axonly
Posts: 2,621
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6/11/2016 1:11:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2016 3:39:43 AM, Opsianos wrote:
On the Internet, people commonly give themselves an ego boost by boasting or showing off in something that they pride themselves for (if you never have, that's quite the humility there).

So, instead of that, this thread is to make you feel bad about yourself (hyperbole). What are your weaknesses? What is something that, again, you are bad at?

For me, it's being bad at anything in general.

I'm bad at:

Running, biking, swimming, drawing, painting, trampolining, skydiving, driving a car, knitting, stitching, sometimes breathing, sometimes eating, flappy bird, 2048 (mobile game), sudoku, chess, cooking, diving, soccer, basketball, cricket, rugby, physics, chemistry, english, any language in general, basic math, hearing, listening, octagon (PC game), bowling, pull ups, push ups, crunches, sit ups, light weight lifting, heavy weight lifting, bench presses, archery, arm wrestling, athletics, lion taming, pipetting, PCR enzyme selection, talking, socializing, dating, flirting, anything even remotely sexual, philosophy, logical thought, creativity, grammar, spelling, algebra, calculus, remembering my credit card pin, remembering my laptop pin, remembering where I am, remembering my keys, how to use door locks, lighting fires, putting out fires, evading police, debating, arguing, assessing my weaknesses, assessing my strengths, computer literacy, basic planning abilities, basic teaching abilities, adaptability, managing fears, dance skills, not pushing big red buttons, having a balanced diet, regular exercise, meditation, magic, organizing, amusing others, not getting bored, distracting myself, proofreading, not getting sick, immortality, negotiating, time management, improvising, being a superhero, lifting (No I do not lift), sitting on a chair (I just fell off, lol), stitching wounds, web slinging, witty remarks, basic memory skills, not dying, not arguing with crazy people online (I'm looking at you, Akhentaken), not being hated online (PeterSmith, why D:), AMA, reddit, youtube, DDO, being warm, fashion, charging my phone, tightrope walking, horse riding, dead dissection, live dissection, being notable in any way shape or form, ecology, zoology, any sort of academic discipline, any sort of non-academic discipline, making art out of blu-tack, writing posts online so nobody can care about it (lol), eating noodles, meaningful articles, resisting the urge to watch cat videos, drinking, being drunk, not getting static shocks every time I enter a building, walking up stairs, walking down stairs, answering this question in a meaningful way.

Lol.
"Hate begets hate"
sadolite
Posts: 10,006
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6/14/2016 12:33:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm not good at apologizing so unfuk you or what ever.
Beware of the people who are in your circle but are not in your corner.

And with the stroke of a pen people 18 to 21 who own a gun became criminals and public enemy #1 having committed no crime and having said nothing. Just like the Jews in Germany during WW2. Must be a weird feeling.

When I hear people crying and whining about their first world problems I think about the universe with everything in it and people in wheelchairs and all of their problems go away.

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